Trading in game and lack of negotiating

I always negotiate. In-game, the buyer is king. There are many sellers and there is always one who is willing to accept a lower price. That's the one I'll do the trade with.

Back in the time, I made much money by buying and re-selling DoA Gemstones. Just by WTBing below the general reserve (not asking!) price, and re-sell to anyone who pays more. When the price is 40k per gem, there is some profit to make.

I've been on other MMOs, and I never bargained really.
Well, I mean I didn't PM someone who was selling an item 100k, and asked if he would sell 90.
If I wanted it at 90, I would just spam it a little, but I guess that's kinda the same.

It's only when I got on GW, I saw that everything you try and sell, you will almost all of the time get a PM offering lower. And I went with it. Now I always offers a few platinum below when I see someone selling something I want. Although if I really need the item, and I know there are lots of people on it (like for example a scythe mod I bought yesterday), I take the price advertised.

Same goes for selling, sometimes I get bored and just sell at asked price.

The difference with real-life is that in Guild Wars, there's no such thing as 'reputation' or 'good-will' when looking at buying/selling.

I grew up in a town of a few thousand people and negotiating with the local bicycle-shop owner was (and is) doable. Because when he lowers his price a bit, or gives some extra free service, I'll remember and be more likely to go him again next time I need a bicycle repaired. So in the short term, he loses, but he understands the chances of me returning are higher than if he sticks to his price.

In GW, most people will have forgotten the name of their trading-partner within minutes. Especially because you don't often buy or sell the same items. The exception to this are people who provide a service as they often do the same service often for a period of time.

2 years ago or something like that, I did a bit of powertrading. While 1-2k may seem little to you and a waste of time, as a powertrader, I spent most my time in Kamadan/Lion's Arch/Kaineng anyhow. Also, it happened that I was talking to 3 or 4 people at the same time. If I can earn 2k for each of those 4 people, I earned another 8k by a bit of bargaining.

This is why if I'm buying items in game, I don't spam WTB - I just hang around quietly and scan for a couple of WTS. If I'm looking to sell stuff, I hang around looking for the WTBs.

Frequently the people shrieking WTS and WTB over and over again are the ones who miss out on the good deals. I got a few bunnies at 50g/per once - the seller didn't have many and just wanted to get rid of them - and this was in the middle of Kamadan AD1 where just about everyone was shouting WTS BUNNIES and WTB BUNNIES and whatnot.

I normally hate trading actually, as I tend to price higher expecting a haggle. But I think most people taking my price to be set in stone. But this weekend, I was doing a bunch of dungeon runs to get my dwarven rank up. (r8 baby, almost there! booyah) Well, as a result, I had a pile of unID'd golds. First sale was for 9, I set 7k. Got an offer via pm for 5k. I said 7unID's normally for for 5k, so I think my 7k asking price was reasonable. Guy came back, and offered 6k. I accepted figuring I don't think i'd get them to go higher.

Then sunday with 7 unID'd golds, I started asking price to 5k. Had a guy PM me an offer of 2k (lol... no way. Thats too low even for me.) Explained to them that this was normal price for 7unid'd. Came back at 2.5k, and I ignored him. 2 minutes later they were sold to someone else for 5k.

So i think haggling is still in the game, but it's uncommon. Last few times before that trying to sell my crappy white mini-pets, setting starting asking price (obo) at 8k/ea. No takers, and I still have em. But the point was set high, haggle down.

Afterall, you know what they say, "A fool and their money..."

First, I have pretty much always detested the trade system. There are reasons for this. I played Price is Right through a lot of my child hood and I have gotten very tired of all prices never being right. ($25.00 T-shirts - pffft, Fail! When I was growing up they were $3.00 max - for a Package of the good ones.) Second, there was no inflation in D&D, AD&D, Harnmaster, Starfrontiers, Traveller, Mechwarrior, Castle Faulkenstien, White Wolf's games, etc. etc. etc. You look it up, you pay the list price. Third, I have been to haggles as a kid. I never approved of them from early childhood. X needs to buy it, and Y needs to sell it. X has this much and Y needs that much. Do we talk truth? No we face off with various masks of deceit and greed to see who can take the other and feel like they gave the better rooking. Sorry, no use for this. The hireling is worthy of his hire, and there I stop.

I do occasionally, rarely buy something in trade. It is as rare as I can make it. I only go there if, and only if, the drop I need or am after has refused to occur after weeks or months of effort. Then I begrudge going and I do not want to haggle with someone about price. Further, everytime I see anything - I repeat Any Thing, for sale at 100k + XXX Ecto I am disgusted.

Since Ecto are so restricted that in 3.5 years of play I was able to get one while doing a spider run, I have finally started buying them from the merchant for armor. I won't buy them in trade. I will not support the economy of 'GW is only for these 2-3 build Nazi builds and if you don't ahve them on the specific class listed then you can't be successful in the game/dungeon/mission' etc.

Further, I don't log in to play Trade Wars. I log in to play Guild Wars. I am there to form-up, ride-out, and eliminate the enemy. Passing through Spamadan is an occasional necessity, and on unique occasions logistically unavoidable. If there was any effective or realistic alternative to trade, I would never trade in GW.

It is because items/commodities now in the game are available at a much higher rate. Trading or bartering in prices, is almost a moot point on both sides. Set prices are used more frequently because If I think the price is too high, I can wait a bit and find someone selling it at a lower price, or if I am selling and I want a price for an item/commodity, I can wait because if you don't buy it, there is always someone who will.

Another difference for GWs vs real stores is that most players are moving limited quantities of product. If a store sells out they can always order more inventory, as long as they got a decent profit out of it they can afford to cut the price a little to move them faster. A player on the other hand only has say 20 keys from the XTH this month, so he's likely to spend a little more time finding a good price since he won't have another 20 coming the next day or week. The same hold fairly true of farming ectos or whatever, more product = more time, so they can save time on farming if they invest more time into a good price.

Power traders on the other hand do have virtually "unlimited" inventory, but they don't have much room to drop prices, since they won't make profit without selling for above average price.

Haggling is uncommon, yes. This is because I don't count:
WTS 50k
{i buy 10k} As haggling.

It depends on how much a player values their time as opposed to in game currency. Nowadays, I usually price things cheap so I can just sell it within 5 minutes rather then 20 so I can play instead of scanning trade channel. Likewise when buying, I don't bother looking at anything without a list price. You may be able to get a better price by negotiating with someone asking for offers, but that can take time and is not always a done deal. Scanning a listed price is like 2 seconds and there's no complications with the deal. You know what they want and it just comes down to whether you're willing to pay that price.

I have no stomach for trading in GW. I usually sell items for a lot lower than I could make because I hate standing around spamming on the trade channel for hours. It's worth it for me to just get a little less money a lot quicker and be able to play or buy whatever I needed. Besides, it is just a video game and I can't see actually caring that much about fictional money.

Haggling is not the best practice anymore. your knowledge about the prices is important.

Yesterday i was looking for Luck of the Draw in Kamadan. I was thinking i will spend 6k for it. Nobody offered so i went to LA. Someone offered 10k and i said no. I went to KC and someone offered 4k, I didnt think twice.

Usually, there are many players selling the same thing. (Armbrace,Heavy Equipment Pack, Etc.), if you stay a while you will find some price difference and you can easily decide if you will buy something or not.

Usually, when I see someone selling something for cheap but i dont immediately need it, I would ask the seller if i can buy it few gold less. If they say yes, then ill buy it.

I'm really weird about trading in GW.

a) I almost never WTB, unless I'm looking for something nobody's going to be WTSing, like Geodes or summat.
b) I usually set my prices a tad high and let the buyer haggle me down to something that's reasonable - say an item's going for about 8k, I'll put it at 9, they'll demand 7, I say let's go with 8. Occasionally I'll catch someone who's desperate and is willing to buy at my price. Usually, though, most people will get it down to a normal number. I don't really overcharge, though - usually no more than a k - and if I see someone WTBing for way more than the thing is worth I'll let them know.
c) If there are a lot of other sellers around and I'm in a hurry or figure I'm making enough of a profit not to worry, I'll deliberately set my price lower than theirs, even if what they're charging is the current market price that people are willing to buy for. Case in point: Traveler Gifts. People were asking 7-8k, I pop into Kamadan and put up "WTS gifts of the traveler 5k ea." and have 3 buyers in about 5 minutes (took them a while to see it, then I got them all at once). Sold out my stock nigh instantly and left the other poor saps in the dust trying to sell their stuff at a normal price in an oversaturated market.
e) I'm still too scared to try and haggle purchases. I'm always afraid the seller will say "screw you" because they know other people are willing to buy for more. I just shop around instead (Lawdy I hate that trade list in the party menu - new things get added so fast I can't read it). The only time I haggle purchases is when I'm getting stuff off guildies, since I know I've got leverage with them (but most of the time it's just a 1-1 trade alc or party for candy).
f) I give up on trying to sell something if there aren't any buyers within 10 minutes. I haven't got enough time to waste on trying to sell stuff when I could be out saving the world.

I would agree with a previous poster that a lot of it is still cultural. I grew up with set prices even in a small town for most things. Having traveled much of the world I learned to negotiate in places where it was commonplace, even in actually stores, not just with street vendors - everything from food to movies, to clothes (especially clothes).

In some places it was more common to see people casually making a counter-offer than it was for people just accepting the price. In big chain stores that's not the case of course, rarely anywhere. In the medium (maybe a local chain even) stores and especially street vendors it was quite common in some places and rather uncommon in others. This was especially the case in parts of the Asia Pacific region, even in Japan where you will see quite a few foreign vendors - Indians are fairly common in the region.

I don't know if you'd see that in GW really since it mainly seems to support first world countries, whether eastern or western. I can't really say though since I'm mainly on the North American servers. In these countries you can still see negotiations being common for higher priced items such as homes, boats, cars, etc etc. It may be more related to the convenience/hassle and the value of money in those places.

Auction House

Tbh, I was one of those guys who gave a set price but it was pretty high. Why? Because I had a huge amount of money and I chest ran for plenty of elite tomes. I was able to buy everyone in Kamadan's elite tomes for cheap and control the elite tome market there for hours at a time. It's not even that hard to trade, turn off all chats and spam your trade message, just look for the blue whispers while doing HW or reading.

You guys may think I'm an asshole for not bargaining but in reality, it was just to make my money back (Chest running in HM was expensive) and I usually gave discounts to frequent buyers or those who buy in bulk. It was also a lot easier on my part because I didn't have to argue with those guys who tell you, "ok 1k, 3 purples, and a rare green wand." If someone really needs the item, they'll buy it no matter what the price. If they still insist on bargaining, just tell them you're the only current seller in Kamadan.

This is why I don't bother buying tomes in Kamadan. ^^

I agree with this...

I often sell for lower than the market price at that time to get rid of it quickly and get on my way.

However I agree with another poster.... that when people try to lower an already cheap price thinking you're stupid or an idiot... then that annoys me and I tend to ignore them then.

I make all my money in GW selling zkeys (at the standard price, no negotiating involved) and sometimes selling highend items (Crystalline from halls, heavy equipment pack). Anyways, the items I buy are usually other highend items which go by auctions, or item mods (for example +10 vs slashing shield inscriptions).
When I want to buy item mods I go to kamadan and just spam a wtb with higher prices than normal ones. I dont like standing there waiting to trade so I give higher prices so people actually bother to check their mules for the mods. I have plenty of money and it gives me more time to do fun things.

Some pple are selling to a fair price enough to avoid wasting time, aswell for seller than buyers.
Some pple think they can do a little more profit then sell/buy at different prices but are open to negotiating. Some of them add a such a low margin, that aren't worth being negotiated...

But seriously, why are complaining about lack of negotiating ?
there is no point in wasting your time in low end item negotiating.
And most of high value items have either a negotiating part or an auction part.
Please concret example OP.

every time i negotiate with someone, i see them moments later reselling my item for double the price. awesome!

i low-ball my prices to begin with to make quick sales. i hate it when people try to negotiate on something that's already dirt cheap, and i usually just ignore them.

I was a power trader back when I was so active literally almost ruining my junior college year.

What I notice about those people that say "offer" when you pm'ed them, and then just ignore you, or say some insulting word at you and your offer eventhough it was a justified price, are usually either:

1) A people that is just like what I used to be, a compulsive hardcore player (read player: the one that plays the game, but in trading and strictly in it).

2) A young kid with their "I'm the best, you all knows nothing better than I am!" sets of mind.

3) Someone who bought the item long time ago and didn't do their research of their declining value items and got pissed because you are the hundred's of person that has pm'ed him/her offering the CURRENT price value, and he just don't get it.

4) Someone who power trades and made a mistake on buying something too high in order for his/her resell practice and want to make a gain still.

Trade in GW is broken. Been said from the start of the game and it hasn't change, no surprises that many bizzare practices are exist in terms of that faulty aspect mentioned.

I myself I don't power trade anymore. I buy thing I want and I am keeping it. If I got bored with it then I sell it at the same price I got, but before that, I'll always make sure I get the correct input of what's the current pricing goes for the particular item(s) I'd like to put in the market.

In every MMO there should be a composition of people that are:

a) just play for fun and waste their spare time.

b) Competitive, mature player.

c) Obssesive overly too serious player that takes everything that's going on in their game very seriously.

d) A seriously competitive young player that is obviously haven't matured and like to annoy people.

Guild Wars has reached a point where all the people that just want to have fun and treating Guild Wars as a game, not exist anymore (read: little of them are still playing). They are most likely carry that realistic point of view in their real life and has moved on to something else that is more fun than, Guild Wars. All that left are just a lot of people that are so competitive and treat the game as their life on the line. Where one situation of one having no money is thought to be able to effect their real life's situation.


ummm..


Ok what am I talking abt in here again? and why have I typed so long for? oh well, too late now.. sorry if it didnt make any sense, God bless my soul.. T_T

Yah, I got that last night.

Me: "WTB Mini Gwen Doll. PM your sell price!"
Seller: "Offer."
Me (-____-): "What is your price?"
Seller: "Offer."
Me: "What is your price?"
Seller: "Bye."
Me: :-D LOL.

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As much as I'd like a Mini Gwen Doll just for its kawaiiness, my inner greed prevents me from wasting over 100e on it, when a few months down the road, I can most likely get it for 100k or under. Just like the Mini Black Beasts of Arrgh. People are trying to get rid of them for as low as 25-35e, way less than its 100k + XXectos days.

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If I have to sell something, I try to spam a mid-line price, but if I get no replies, I tend to lowball so I could get a buyer, save my time and go back to farming more Ectos and Shards. The time it takes to sell some item or rare can be much better spent farming.

That is why if I go on a streak of bad FOWsc runs, I simply load up my smiter hero and 600/hero smite a few runs. The time it takes for you to have a competent non-noob group, you could have made like 50k in Shards alone, rather than 1-3 shards + lame gold, unless you hit jackpot with a Q9 Crystalline or Obsidian Edge. But even these (and Eternal Blades) are a PITIFUL shell of their former values. Q13 Eternal for 90e? LMAO. I remember the 300e value days.

Usually when asked for a price I'll give my price but add after that "if you've got another price in mind let me know". I sometimes get very annoyed with the lack of negotiating in the game...especially since people always want to sell for 5% over it's market value and buy at 10% below it's value.

Most of the time when I ask someone to offer on something it's because I have no idea of the current market price and I don't really want to waste a whole lot of time checking up on prices because I want to get back to having -fun-. I figure they'll offer what they're willing to pay, I'll compare offers that I get and go with what seems fair/what seems to be the market price.

Unfortunately, people don't seem to want to offer on things, so casual players that don't obsessively watch prices get ignored when they ask for offers. It's not so much that I don't like the offers I get, it's more I don't get any at all.

I rarely ever turn down an offer, and even then, it's only because it's rediculously low (think in the region of 50-80g - I'd get more at a merchant).

are they ignoring each other ? well they gonna need to start to check prices before selling/buying things...

price negotiatians may be above the heads of some of the people that play this game ;-). some people are just stubborn as hell too =)

I believe this is caused by not knowing what the current market value is on an item and not wanting to appear/be called a n00b.

This is prety much the reason why games like this should have auction houses in them as standard.

Think it's just the mentality of people who spam WTB and WTS. Of course offers get ignored - you can have one guy selling sweets at 100/point, one guy wtbing at 120/point in the same district, both in party search and trade chat, and they will completely ignore each other.

I sold mandragor roots at 2k to people who had been waiting quite some time with "WTB roots 2k", despite the fact that there were several people going WTS roots 1k. Neither party bothered to take a look at party search, or trade chat... the WTS guy could have made more money than expected, or the WTB party could have spent less. I think people tend to put up one offer, sit there, spam it, and wait for people to come to them - there's this mentality that pretty much goes 'what I offer is the best, everyone will come flocking to me now' .

I minimize trading to the absolute minimum because it has become such an ordeal.

For example, recently I decided to make a couple full sets of shields for my PvE characters so I don't have to share between them. I go into the sell forum here and start messaging people with shields on storage clearouts asking for a b/o price because I don't want to waste hours haggling over a few thousand gold. Everyone ask for an "offer", and since I don't know shit about prices for PvE stuff I throw out a figure and every single person either tries to haggle up an inconsequential amount (really, 500g?) or takes my offer as an insult.

It took almost three hours to buy eight shields, inscriptions and handles.

Last year before I quit I was really bored so I end up looking for weapons with skins on demand.Really have to say that trading is pretty tedious here.

Z-quest is a pain reliving method for me now.

It's sheer stupidity for people to ignore the chat completely. When I'm trading my eyes are glued to the chat, waiting for a low WTS on something that I'll buy then sell later on at a higher price to make a profit. Too many people are lacking in common sense and/or are lazy and expect people to come to them. It doesn't work that way.

As for negotiating, I think it's out there - however I'll admit I'm stubborn with the price I'll sell at, and (for example) won't accept ectos because I want cash. However, there are enough people out there for everyone to obtain a satisfactory transaction.

I admit though, people who are selling shouldn't ask the buyers for an offer; sellers should be able to state what they want for an item, and haggling should come afterwards.

I'd be cool with bargaining, if not for how I never encounter anyone willing to do it. And since I avoid trading with players in the first place, yeah...

Yes, it is, but it seems to be happening a lot. I think that's why you don't really get people negotiating; there's this assumption that what you're selling is inherently desirable. Or that the price you're offering is inherently desirable. Which is not the case.

Generally, when I'm selling something or buying something, I'm open to negotiations. If someone offers a price lower than what I'm asking, I'll often respond with a counter offer somewhere in between. Likewise when I'm buying, I'll often try to get a lower price for something than what is being asked, but I'm still flexible and willing to pay a counter-offer if one is given.

The only exception to this if when I'm trying to sell something quickly and so I state a price that is already lower than the item is worth. I'm generally not too lenient if someone trys to lower the price even further. So, if you find someone who isn't flexible with their prices, it may not be because they haven't a bartering mindset: it may be because they think the item is worth more than you think it is.

I can't stand trade at all. It's both annoying and slow outside and inside the game.
Inside people is spread in diferent outposts and different regions, and they speak in different languages, so you can't see the items and must read what they write, which is a little text that rerely describes correctly the item itself.
Outside people is spread between different auction sites and forums, and you depend on checking again and again for responses, forcing you to have a browser or a mail client running at all times in the background, and for me Ventrilo is more than enough as an extra running program.

I rarely sell anything at all. It's slow and tedious. So I behave... well, not like me usual self when it comes to trading. If I have to trade, I turn into a wicked version of myself for a few seconds.
When I sell something, I want to do it fast. If I say a price and I'm asked for less, I increase it. After two increases they usually buy it to prevent me to increase it even more, if anyone tells me 'X sells it for less' I'll just respond 'then go buy it from him'.
I also increase the price if more than one people respond to the offer.
I also merch stuff that could sell for way more than the merchant would pay:
- "Hey, I got a req10 non insribed skin XXX"
- "That can sell for 100X+25e"
- "I don't care, it should be inscribed and it's useless to me if it is not req9 or less and inscribed. There it goes, to the merchant"
- "No! Sell it to me, I'll trade it and give you 90% of the profit"
- "I don't care! It should be inscribed and there should be a better trading system! To the merchant I say!!!"
- "Nooooo!"
- "YESHH!! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-haw"
Yeah... that feelt good.
Since I hate the almost non-existent and slow trading system, that's my own little revenge. Yes, I lose tons of cash, but I'ts something about principles.

^ Or they say their "friends" right next to them are offering a lower price than your price.

Happened to me 2 times yesterday while spamming WTS Q10 Voltaic Spear. I had asked for 50e, to test out the market waters. After a bit I realized it was probably over what was the average price so I lowered it to 45e, making it firm (but not stating it in trade spam).

I get PMs from two different people saying they want to buy but at 42e. I reply my price is 45e the lowest, and both times I get a reply saying "this guy right next to me" or "my friend here" is offering to sell the spear to me for 42e. "If you go lower than that I will buy it from you."

I LOLed and replied: "Sure, go buy from your friend then. If he's your friend, he'd give it to you for free or sell it dirt cheap, like 42g."

I also had some "German" dude claiming he would buy at 45e but then went ballistic when he found out the spear wasn't dyed black and caster modded LOL. Liek OMG! It's not Black dyed? Dye it black and I'll buy at 45e. I reply: "Sure, I'll dye it black and you pay me 50e for it

Yes, the daily routine of WTB WTS in Guild Wars. You v. NOOBS.

I don't see a problem with haggling prices.. that's how things are supposed to work. It's always annoyed me when I've been trying to buy/sell an item and ask for slightly more/less and the person just completely ignores you or breaks off the trade, when a lot of the time I'd be willing to pay the higher price, if I really have to.

There's a big difference between negotiating and trying to cheat someone.

Not really. It's not cheating if the buyer is willing to buy X amount for an item when it's 100x inflated over its supposed market price.

If I want to sell say Mini Burning Titan for 100k + XXX ecto, the only people that would accept that trade are:

1) Someone really rich who wants to spend the cash and ectos for whatever, whenever.

2) A very desperate player seeking that mini or whatever item and must have it, at any cost.

3) A dumb bot.

Am I scamming such people? Some will say yes. Others will say no. Why? It's your item. You set your price. If someone agrees to buy it at that price, he/she cannot blame any one else except himself/herself for spending a bigger amount.

I've had a few lucky trades where I knew I was taking advantage of the buyer but the catch was, the buyer DID NOT CARE. Here's one case:

December 2008 I was in Kamadan AD 1 just browsing the Trade spam and I see a guy spamming "WTB Galigord's Stone Staff 100K! PM me!!!"

At first I ignore it, thinking it's part of a deferred trade scam (WTB Item X 200e! from one person, and WTS Item X 100e from another). However, after seeing several more spams from the same guy I PM him and say I have a Galigord's Stone Staff for sale. He opens up trade, puts in 100k. I put up the Green, Accept, Accept. Deal done.

At first I'm thinking wow, that buyer was either a noob or really desperate. So out of a shred of guilt I PM him telling him he overpaid for the green. His reply was:

"I know. But I need this staff for UW ecto farming, so I can farm lots of ectos."

And that was it for me. No guilt. The guy wanted to pay that amount, fine by me.

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I bought a Mini Gwen Doll last night for a mere 20 Ectos. Did I get a steal? Heck yes (at this current time of the market). Did the seller get scammed? No, he set the item at that price. Not the buyer's fault if he doesn't know prices, or is too lazy to find out.

Sometimes I knowingly overpay 5-10k on items that I really want, and I couldn't find better offers or sales, and I don't want to waste time looking when I could overpay say 20k on a weapon and get it immediately, and then head into FoW/UW and get that money back in Ectos/Shards. I'd rather do that than spamming for another hour and getting no more or even more "outrageous" price tags.