ANET forgot they made paragons
Bill Clinton
I dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet in the thread. But paragons were given love this update. [defensive anthem] is now twenty times more viable now that [aegis] is gone.
Lishy
lol.. No para buffs.
At least defensive anthem will dominate again...
At least defensive anthem will dominate again...
Ney Matogrosso
Is hard to know what the people want, in this topic buff paragon, because many people say that paragon is weak, worst and monk, ele and other are infinity better than para, but in this one (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10374190) people say, nerf paragon. Concluding, paragons don't need buff or nerf only need criativity.
They can play well in pvp, just need to think.
They can play well in pvp, just need to think.
Jaigoda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ney Matogrosso
Is hard to know what the people want, in this topic buff paragon, because many people say that paragon is weak, worst and monk, ele and other are infinity better than para, but in this one (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10374190) people say, nerf paragon. Concluding, paragons don't need buff or nerf only need criativity.
They can play well in pvp, just need to think. Wow, this was really difficult to read. And in that other thread, they're saying they'd be willing to nerf some of Paragon's inherent defense so it's possible to actually buff them without making them broken. And believe me, creativity only goes so far.. There are only a finite amount of skills, and a LOT of them aren't really usable at all in the vast majority of builds. And only people who don't understand what they're talking about think that Para's are inferior to ele's and monks. Paragons needs buffs and more options, period.
They can play well in pvp, just need to think. Wow, this was really difficult to read. And in that other thread, they're saying they'd be willing to nerf some of Paragon's inherent defense so it's possible to actually buff them without making them broken. And believe me, creativity only goes so far.. There are only a finite amount of skills, and a LOT of them aren't really usable at all in the vast majority of builds. And only people who don't understand what they're talking about think that Para's are inferior to ele's and monks. Paragons needs buffs and more options, period.
Reverend Dr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ney Matogrosso
Improvavel
Paragons have:
-Very high armor;
-Infinite resource engine in 6+ people parties;
-Powerful ranged weapon;
-Incredible IAS;
-Access to daze and deep wound;
-Positional advantage (high adrenaline costs means nothing to them - 7 adrenaline for a paragon is like 4 or less for a warrior).
The support skills, especially in PvP and excluding PvE-only ones, vary from ok to horrible when the paragon is on its own.
But even horrible skills on its own, you know those that do some mediocre thing when a shout or chant ends, are much less mediocre when they do 10 things in a second because there are shouts/chants of 4+ paragons ending constantly.
That's their problem for good and bad - alone they are lacklusters, except for the imbagon, but get a group of them and they can do stupid stuff, especially in PvE where skills aren't as badly crapped.
No player that only has access to its 2 paragon heroes can really comment on the strength of paras - it requires 3 and probably 4 or even more to see their power in action.
1 paragon doesn't heal as good as 1 monk, but you can have 4 paragons healing because opposed to monks they can still do damage while healing.
Additionally a paragon will take about 25% less damage than a monk - maybe more in PvE where most damage from Mobs come from auto-attacks/elemental damage.
Full paragon parties not only are good but they are fun.
They can use modifications, but as Bill Clinton said, Paras now have the best "Aegis" for PvP.
Anet I WANT THE 3rd PARA HERO NOT A STUPID DERVISH HERO!
-Very high armor;
-Infinite resource engine in 6+ people parties;
-Powerful ranged weapon;
-Incredible IAS;
-Access to daze and deep wound;
-Positional advantage (high adrenaline costs means nothing to them - 7 adrenaline for a paragon is like 4 or less for a warrior).
The support skills, especially in PvP and excluding PvE-only ones, vary from ok to horrible when the paragon is on its own.
But even horrible skills on its own, you know those that do some mediocre thing when a shout or chant ends, are much less mediocre when they do 10 things in a second because there are shouts/chants of 4+ paragons ending constantly.
That's their problem for good and bad - alone they are lacklusters, except for the imbagon, but get a group of them and they can do stupid stuff, especially in PvE where skills aren't as badly crapped.
No player that only has access to its 2 paragon heroes can really comment on the strength of paras - it requires 3 and probably 4 or even more to see their power in action.
1 paragon doesn't heal as good as 1 monk, but you can have 4 paragons healing because opposed to monks they can still do damage while healing.
Additionally a paragon will take about 25% less damage than a monk - maybe more in PvE where most damage from Mobs come from auto-attacks/elemental damage.
Full paragon parties not only are good but they are fun.
They can use modifications, but as Bill Clinton said, Paras now have the best "Aegis" for PvP.
Anet I WANT THE 3rd PARA HERO NOT A STUPID DERVISH HERO!
Axel Zinfandel
Paragons do not need buffs or nerfs, they need functionality changes.
IMO, Paragons are NOT overpowered, and are extremely underpowered. I almost guarentee that if they nerfed imbagon, paragons would become like rits are right now
IMO, Paragons are NOT overpowered, and are extremely underpowered. I almost guarentee that if they nerfed imbagon, paragons would become like rits are right now
Ney Matogrosso
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
IMO, Paragons are NOT overpowered, and are extremely underpowered. I almost guarentee that if they nerfed imbagon, paragons would become like rits are right now I agree with the bold words from Axel Zinfandel.
Improvavel: I need a 3rd paragon too, a 3rd Dervish is useless, ho play with more than one Dervish hero? If paly with one.
Ney Matogrosso
upier
The interesting part that (I think) nobody mentioned - the imba part of the imbagon is a warrior skill.
Reverend Dr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ney Matogrosso
Your words in the topic above:
"The biggest problem is chant stacking.
If running one paragon becomes viable(a standard build, not imbagon), then running more will end up being overpowered." And that is speculation. I was addressing why blanket buffs to paragon skills (aka chants/shouts) would not be a good way to address paragon balance. I was merely pointing out the confounding probably before any argument.
FeroxC
This is from a PVE players perspective.
Paragons skills swing between the extremes of "so general its useless" and "so conditional its useless".
In PVE if your not abusing imbagon other classes would probably do a better job. "Jack of all - master of none" comes to mind.
What they need is some skills with some real impact that dont stack to the point of imbalance. None of this "cant touch this", "chorus of restoration,"crippling anthem" rubbish.
They are nice but they arn't going to have much impact on the tide of battle and are therefore worthless.
Paragons skills swing between the extremes of "so general its useless" and "so conditional its useless".
In PVE if your not abusing imbagon other classes would probably do a better job. "Jack of all - master of none" comes to mind.
What they need is some skills with some real impact that dont stack to the point of imbalance. None of this "cant touch this", "chorus of restoration,"crippling anthem" rubbish.
They are nice but they arn't going to have much impact on the tide of battle and are therefore worthless.
Jaigoda
Here's the thing. In PvP, there's one huge reason why they and also Rits, can never be truly balanced: They are build too much around unremovable buffs. This means that if something is actually useful, it's extremely easily abused, and there's no way to get it off short of gimmick stuff. If it's not useful like they've had to make so many of Para's skills, then there's no point in bringing it anyway. There is no balance in between.
Of course in PvE, like any other profession, they only need a few PvE-only buffs and they can turn into a completely viable profession. Just look at Assassins: Before they were all but laughed and a mocked by the majority of players, and now they're quite possibly the best profession in PvE, simply due to Shadow Form and PvE skills (and a very small handful of buffs). The Motivation line has a lot of potential, as others have mentioned.
Oh, and to the above poster: Right now they're more like "(generally) can't do jack, master of one (skill)." And they're only worthless if they aren't running Imbagon.
Of course in PvE, like any other profession, they only need a few PvE-only buffs and they can turn into a completely viable profession. Just look at Assassins: Before they were all but laughed and a mocked by the majority of players, and now they're quite possibly the best profession in PvE, simply due to Shadow Form and PvE skills (and a very small handful of buffs). The Motivation line has a lot of potential, as others have mentioned.
Oh, and to the above poster: Right now they're more like "(generally) can't do jack, master of one (skill)." And they're only worthless if they aren't running Imbagon.
upier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Improvavel
Well [glyph of lesser energy] is an elementalist skill and [assassins promise] is an assassin skill, right?
The problem is that unless a paragon runs a skill from the secondary class - he's pretty much outclassed.
Not the best thing one can say about how the class is balanced.
Not the best thing one can say about how the class is balanced.
Celtus
anet didnt forget they made paragons. they made professions which are more effective in bigger groups (paragon, also ritualist), then they decided they dont like professions that are especially effective in bigger groups so they nerfed both to oblivion and will probably continue doing so every month