Once again while I was doing PvP some random guys began calling each other for noobs for running a PvX build. Each time stuff like this happens I cant help myself thinking whats so damn wrong with PvX? Almost every Build I saw, no metter if it was mine, those of my team mates or foes can actualy be found on PvX, with some decent explanation on how to use it.
I myself am a r10 Hero, 4 glad, which only shows that I do alot of PvP but I still can find myself surfin on PvX now and then.
So my question is, why do ppl hate PvX users that much? Whats so wrong with it?
PvX dilemma
Deimos Zargarda
Brett Kuntz
People who make fun of other peoples builds suck themselves but just don't realize it.
Lishy
Nothing is wrong with PvX BUILDS.
It's the fact that a lot of users who use "the meta" think things should be copied from PvX to the T, and that is it the "holy trinity" that should not be broken.
That said, it's also the people against PvXwiki builds who are idiots because they think it is cliche and overused, there for making is so called "gay", in their language.
Truth be told, both groups are dumb. But most of the PvXwiki haters are trolls.
It's the fact that a lot of users who use "the meta" think things should be copied from PvX to the T, and that is it the "holy trinity" that should not be broken.
That said, it's also the people against PvXwiki builds who are idiots because they think it is cliche and overused, there for making is so called "gay", in their language.
Truth be told, both groups are dumb. But most of the PvXwiki haters are trolls.
lord of all tyria
Maybe because the players on PvX are mostly terrible.
Also, OMG UNORIGINAL COPY BUILD FROM OTHER PERSON NOOB
Also, OMG UNORIGINAL COPY BUILD FROM OTHER PERSON NOOB
Edwards
Anyone who PvPs a lot should probably know the meta well enough to make/copy/imitate builds themselves.
Also, any time you RA at all, you're bound to be called a noob.
Also, any time you RA at all, you're bound to be called a noob.
Lyphen
PvX is the new Abominable Snowman and Spell Slasher stuff. It isn't original, and some people frown on them, despite their effectiveness.
pinguinius
Nothing is wrong with it. People just need to insult each other needlessly on the internet. Copying and pasting the newest spike build might not show creativity, but this isn't an art contest. It's a game, and why wouldn't you pick the best options available for you to win? No reason to reinvent the wheel.
Tamuril elansar
people saying shit like that mostly have idiotic builds theirselves.
rick1027
to start out im gonna say im not a pvi wiki hater i actually use it a lot. but there are af ew things about pvi wiki most pviwiki enthusiasts think you must follow them to a tee and this is where i argue with them pviwiki builds are there to a gist of a build and tailor it to your preferences or needs. the builds there work real well and can be used with effeciency but to get better you should tinker with builds a little to get them better for you and your style. those that sit there and only use pviwiki builds and dont try anything little different only limit themselves. pviwiki is a great source of knowledge good and bad but use it to get better and try making your own builds. youll find in a lot builds one skill here and there might be the way to go. but if you use pviwiki to expand your knowledge of builds of the how and why you made yourself a way better player and you might be the one who thinks up the next build to post there
haggus71
Some people hate Wiki build users as a result of those users telling them they are an idiot for NOT using the latest Wiki build. It goes both ways. I've seen some people run a crap build with no synergy just to "be different", and I've seen others copy/paste a Wiki build and proceed to suck, because they have no clue how or why those skills work together.
Idiots are idiots. They just act so in different ways.
Idiots are idiots. They just act so in different ways.
Snow Bunny
PvX builds are 99% of the time going to be more effective than anything else anyone has.
For PvP, most builds on PvX are simply builds copied off from observer.
"Oh, everyone's running a Burning arrow ranger with these 8 skills. Ok, it's a decent build." Since most people use it, there must be something right about the build.
For PvP, most builds on PvX are simply builds copied off from observer.
"Oh, everyone's running a Burning arrow ranger with these 8 skills. Ok, it's a decent build." Since most people use it, there must be something right about the build.
Savio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
PvX builds are 99% of the time going to be more effective than anything else anyone has.
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Xenomortis
Some things on PvX can be highly suspect, PvE and PvP builds alike.
Usually there isn't much wrong with the builds, but they're rarely as strong as they could be.
Sometimes, you can get rather excellent builds on there too.
Usually there isn't much wrong with the builds, but they're rarely as strong as they could be.
Sometimes, you can get rather excellent builds on there too.
Masmar
Alot of the time its the players on pvx that are bad, and so the builds get a bad reputation. Dont get me wrong builds vetted great on Pvx are there for a reason
lewis91
I hate it when i see every assassin running the same build. But that only makes me a hypocrit because i have run the ps build (my variant) once, and i do surf pvx to see "In" builds.
It just bugs me when i see more than one person in the same match running the EXACT build off pvxwiki. I know they can be powerful, but it would be nice to see that they've used their brain and looked at skills, changed some whatever.
It just bugs me when i see more than one person in the same match running the EXACT build off pvxwiki. I know they can be powerful, but it would be nice to see that they've used their brain and looked at skills, changed some whatever.
Chicken Ftw
Not really sure how people can magically tell whether it's a build off wiki vs a build popular due to effectiveness if they come across it ingame. Any "original" build is probably being run by at least a few other people, no matter how bad it might be, simply due to the number of people who play. If it's a really effective build, expect far more people to be running it, skill for skill. Obs mode, word of mouth, etc... there's far more to a build's popularity than wiki.
fenix
Like Savio said, PvX is shitty versions of meta builds. They're copied down off obs wrong by PvErs and then everyone else assumes they're right, so of course you get scrubs running bars that are MEANT to look like the obs ones, but don't.
pamelf
The irony is that they would have had to have spend prodigious amounts of time on PvX themselves to be so intimately acquainted with the builds that they can call you on having one....
notskorn
In PvE it doesn't really matter what 6/8 team members are running. The only people that need decent builds are the monks.
Kerwyn Nasilan
It because there o so awesome original build is being flattened by better PvX builds
Avarre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pamelf
The irony is that they would have had to have spend prodigious amounts of time on PvX themselves to be so intimately acquainted with the builds that they can call you on having one....
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Sir Seifus Halbred
It's the same thing as the people who you badly own or they lose to you, and they decide to call you a "noob"
poasiods
1. This guy comes up with an effective build.
2. He puts it up on PvX.
3. It becomes popular.
4. He runs that build again.
5. Omg, PvX noob.
2. He puts it up on PvX.
3. It becomes popular.
4. He runs that build again.
5. Omg, PvX noob.
Syntheticfibers
PvX builds own, people just call people that use them wiki-noobs because they get owned and are frustrated.
Chocobo1
Quote:
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Originally Posted by poasiods
1. This guy comes up with an effective build.
2. He puts it up on PvX. 3. It becomes popular. 4. He runs that build again. 5. Omg, PvX noob. |
So I go check and bam, look whats on the Wiki! Kinda sad because I enjoyed having a good build to myself <.<;
Also, I strongly encourage most people who I play with nowdays (I stick around low arenas because I don't play too much anymore) to use PvX builds. It saddens me to go to JQ and see people running some terrible Mo/P with only spear attacks and RoJ. I'm not sure if they think they are orginal or something but bleh I just wish they'd stick to the build on there because whatever there using is sure as hell 10x worse than the PvX build.
HawkofStorms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sir Seifus Halbred
It's the same thing as the people who you badly own or they lose to you, and they decide to call you a "noob"
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People who talk trash in PvP (especially low level PvP) are generally idiots. If they weren't calling you a PvXwiki noob (while they are running a healing hands warrior and gryphons sweep), they'd find some other thing to call you.
The thing is, a lot of players like that give the rest of PvPers a bad name and really discourage people from entering PvP at all, which is a real shame because its a lot of fun. People just have to learn to grow up.
Emma Panzerbergen
Almost every good build out there is on PvX, so it's lame when people call you a "wiki nub" for using WoH as a monk or savage shot as a Ranger. I mean, are you supposed to use the bad skills only?
ac1inferno
Do people realize that Wiki does not make builds? They simply observe and document them. People copy and run meta builds because they work. And Wiki is an easy place to copy it from. So in reality, there are no "Wiki" builds. Only copied meta builds.
The people who complain are people who run bad builds but hate build criticism. They never listen, no matter how genuinely helpful someone is trying to be. They can't understand that there are people who are better at GW than them. Their inflated egos and false sense of entitlement prevent them from hearing legitimate advice and writing them off advice as "elitism".
So ignore these people and their Wiki philosophies.
You really can't claim you invented a good build. Even if you don't look anything up on the meta but have a fairly good idea of what skills are good and what skills are bad, and proceed to put skills together, it would eventually evolve into something similar to meta. You might think you're the first to think up of it, but there would be other people who would think along the same lines and end up with a similar build idea.
The people who complain are people who run bad builds but hate build criticism. They never listen, no matter how genuinely helpful someone is trying to be. They can't understand that there are people who are better at GW than them. Their inflated egos and false sense of entitlement prevent them from hearing legitimate advice and writing them off advice as "elitism".
So ignore these people and their Wiki philosophies.
You really can't claim you invented a good build. Even if you don't look anything up on the meta but have a fairly good idea of what skills are good and what skills are bad, and proceed to put skills together, it would eventually evolve into something similar to meta. You might think you're the first to think up of it, but there would be other people who would think along the same lines and end up with a similar build idea.
Boneyard Spleeneater
I use the wiki to try out new skill sets that I am not familiar with, then I tinker with them. I also use it when I start playing a new class, or am looking to farm a new area. I have come up with some builds of my own, but I see nothing wrong with using the wiki if ti works.
For heroes, I almost always go with the stock wiki build, and tune it if necessary for the area I am in. For my main PVE, I run an AP/COP spiker-caller (adjusted for my play-style) with discordway, and I will sub out one of the heroes or skills if needed. Other than HM dungeons, I rarely have problems.
I'm not playing the game to be popular. If I want that, I'll start running laps and go win a gold medal or something.
For heroes, I almost always go with the stock wiki build, and tune it if necessary for the area I am in. For my main PVE, I run an AP/COP spiker-caller (adjusted for my play-style) with discordway, and I will sub out one of the heroes or skills if needed. Other than HM dungeons, I rarely have problems.
I'm not playing the game to be popular. If I want that, I'll start running laps and go win a gold medal or something.
Sarevok Thordin
Because it practically encourages you to be a sheep and not learn the skills yourself.
Anyone can copy a build down and spam skills, but it takes a GOOD player to make a build up themselves and use it effectively. PvXWiki just says "Come one and all, slap this into the template code for winrar"
Anyone can copy a build down and spam skills, but it takes a GOOD player to make a build up themselves and use it effectively. PvXWiki just says "Come one and all, slap this into the template code for winrar"
Luminarus
The thing about many of the builds is its the player skill behind them that matters rather then the build. The build might be a very effective combination of 8 skills, but a nub behind it is still a nub.
For example put a noob on the shock axe template. Hes gonna sit there wailing on the monk, failing to cancel frenzy or never using it. Shocking on recharge, and unloading like a monkey whenever a skill is charged coz hes noob.
Put someone good on it, and theyll frenzy as much as possible, when safe to do so. Preemptively move, hit with bulls, 1/4 knock with shock, spike on unprotted targets, swap targets when guardian/stances go up, lineback when monks energy gets low etc.
Whilst with some builds the player skill is sorta irrelevant (oldschool BoA for example, or Distortion Mindblast bars) the bars which require skill, and become exponentially better depending on player skill are an obvious example. And as such, you see a nub on shock axe and you know hes some guy who just went pvx wiki and grabbed it and as still a noob.
For example put a noob on the shock axe template. Hes gonna sit there wailing on the monk, failing to cancel frenzy or never using it. Shocking on recharge, and unloading like a monkey whenever a skill is charged coz hes noob.
Put someone good on it, and theyll frenzy as much as possible, when safe to do so. Preemptively move, hit with bulls, 1/4 knock with shock, spike on unprotted targets, swap targets when guardian/stances go up, lineback when monks energy gets low etc.
Whilst with some builds the player skill is sorta irrelevant (oldschool BoA for example, or Distortion Mindblast bars) the bars which require skill, and become exponentially better depending on player skill are an obvious example. And as such, you see a nub on shock axe and you know hes some guy who just went pvx wiki and grabbed it and as still a noob.
tuna-fish_sushi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
Because it practically encourages you to be a sheep and not learn the skills yourself.
Anyone can copy a build down and spam skills, but it takes a GOOD player to make a build up themselves and use it effectively. PvXWiki just says "Come one and all, slap this into the template code for winrar" |
I like to think of pvx as a tutorial for pvpers. It tells players what builds are effective (not the best, but for the most part definately not crappy). Eventually people can change up the skills a bit for the better combinations.
Kawil
PvX...it's simply another resource. Don't sit there and tell me that the super, mega, kick ass build that a person just "made" was never thought of before. If it was, guess where it would be? You got it...PvX.
Gli
I've had someone flame me for being a PvX noob for the entirety of a JQ match today, for running Palm Strike/Trampling Ox. Apparently, this is such an obscure combination of skills, no one could ever come up with it without researching a build wiki.
Of course, his totally awesome and unique Ray of Judgement shrine capping build didn't stand a chance against me.
Of course, his totally awesome and unique Ray of Judgement shrine capping build didn't stand a chance against me.
The forth fly
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
I've had someone flame me for being a PvX noob for the entirety of a JQ match today, for running Palm Strike/Trampling Ox. Apparently, this is such an obscure combination of skills, no one could ever come up with it without researching a build wiki.
Of course, his totally awesome and unique Ray of Judgement shrine capping build didn't stand a chance against me. |
Gli
Don't you know, it's always the bad ones calling names.
Spears of Light and Castigation Signets didn't do a lot to save his bacon. And my non-PvX wiki-inspired Power Drain to interrupt a key skill between knockdowns wasn't very kind to his survival chances either.
Spears of Light and Castigation Signets didn't do a lot to save his bacon. And my non-PvX wiki-inspired Power Drain to interrupt a key skill between knockdowns wasn't very kind to his survival chances either.
zwei2stein
Only issue with PvX is that people wikify good build and add their "touch", aka, manage to make build less effective. Which is then copied and assumed good. Should anyone object to that in talk pages or to attempt to edit it out, it will not stand because "truth by popular vote" that wikis are suspectibe to happens.
As far as quality goes, it is typical guild wars thing: popularity means tells litte about quality. "cookie cutter pvx" does not mean it is good. Nor that it is bad. Just that someone put it on pvx (which is bound to happen sooner or later), nothing more.
As far as quality goes, it is typical guild wars thing: popularity means tells litte about quality. "cookie cutter pvx" does not mean it is good. Nor that it is bad. Just that someone put it on pvx (which is bound to happen sooner or later), nothing more.
RotteN
I got called a PvX noob lately for running shock axe. (in the sense of "lololol go copy moar builds you f*cikn PvX noob")
All in all quite hilarious since i've been running shock axe since the day they nerfed gale, and the only change i ever made was swap executioner's for body blow. I don't even visit PvX, hell, i wouldn't even know the actual url.
Do i think it's a bad website? No. 90% of the GW population wouldn't recognise skill synergy even if it hit them between the eyes doing 120MPH. At least now they can look up skills bars and start from there. It's easier to judge about the quality of a skillbar (good/bad) than to build one from scratch.
All in all quite hilarious since i've been running shock axe since the day they nerfed gale, and the only change i ever made was swap executioner's for body blow. I don't even visit PvX, hell, i wouldn't even know the actual url.
Do i think it's a bad website? No. 90% of the GW population wouldn't recognise skill synergy even if it hit them between the eyes doing 120MPH. At least now they can look up skills bars and start from there. It's easier to judge about the quality of a skillbar (good/bad) than to build one from scratch.
Longasc
It is possible to copy a good and working build and....
... "improve" it to be really bad
... still play poorly, despite an awesome easy to use build.
... "improve" it to be really bad
... still play poorly, despite an awesome easy to use build.
FengShuiDove
Because people need a scapegoat to kill. It's the same old thing, "If I kill you, it's skill, if you kill me, it's lag," or "If I kill you, it's skill, if you kill me, it's PvX noob copying builds."
The logic is about as solid as a 8.5"x11" printer paper picture of a steel beam. Also consider the "You pussy runner, stop running away, that's the only reason you survived." Well duh, stupid, it's tactically advantageous to do so at times.
Steps to success in PvP: (1) Turn off Local Chat, (2) Set your status to Do Not Disturb or Offline, (3) Enjoy quiet, tasteful PvP. Ignorance can sometimes be bliss.
The logic is about as solid as a 8.5"x11" printer paper picture of a steel beam. Also consider the "You pussy runner, stop running away, that's the only reason you survived." Well duh, stupid, it's tactically advantageous to do so at times.
Steps to success in PvP: (1) Turn off Local Chat, (2) Set your status to Do Not Disturb or Offline, (3) Enjoy quiet, tasteful PvP. Ignorance can sometimes be bliss.