Dragon of the Charr homelands...too big
Free Runner
There are no dragons in Cantha. None at all. All the dragons that are visible are visible in Eye of the North. You cannot see any others in Elona, Cantha or Southern Tyria. The thing your talking about is probably one of the statues that shares its skin with the Twin Serpents of Underworld.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Obrien Xp
GWW has it on his page.
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Originally Posted by Obrien Xp
Just to through it out, any thought on seeing as Glint is female and made of crystal like primordious, we assume he is male.
Mates? (like a husband gone bad millenia ago) |
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Originally Posted by MBTW
its not soley the light house, its the dragon-looking crap in KC. ill take some pics and post a visual compairison of Drakkar-Char Dragon
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Originally Posted by Myself
those two Lighthouses are Dragons
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Originally Posted by MBTW
not decorations, the scaly lumps. will post pics
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Why would these two be covered in rock? There is no reason. How can a creature hybernate spewing fire with its eyes open and no pupil?
Please keep those most annoying theories with no backing other than good detail alone.
If you want me to continue... bah, I will.
GW2 and the Ancient Dragons were thought up during the development of Utopia. That means after Nightfall was finished *maybe not out yet though* and long after Prophecies and Factions were out.
Those two dragons have been there from the beginning. They were placed there as Dragon-shaped lighthouses. It is the Empire of the Dragon afterall. Besides looks, there is absolutely nothing to support this being a dragon. And there are many many MANY other statues that have good detail in them. Being detaled doesn't help the case. Because there should be no case.
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
There are no dragons in Cantha. None at all. All the dragons that are visible are visible in Eye of the North. You cannot see any others in Elona, Cantha or Southern Tyria. The thing your talking about is probably one of the statues that shares its skin with the Twin Serpents of Underworld.
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The first is what he means by "big dragon" as it is believed that the "Kaineng Dragon" is bigger than the other "dragon."
Neo Atomisk
On Obrien's theory of Glint/Primordus, I wouldn't believe that to be possible.
Glint has been around for a few thousand years, and by our standards, an ancient creature. Primordus, however, is MANY times the size, age, and power of Glint. He has been around since near the beginning of time (or so we have been led to believe), and has power equal to that of a god.
...Not to mention Glint isn't that attractive :P
Any possibility of an ancient dragon in Cantha can be dismissed by 2 things.
1) Absolutely no mention of it in the Movement of the world
2) Both those statues have their eyes open, as does another one in Sunjiang District. Dragons do NOT sleep with their eyes open.
(Oh my god those lore pages are horrific, I want to delete them >_<)
But this does bring up the question, how did Canthans learn of dragons? the only way I could possibly see is through Kuunavang and the serpents in the jade sea...
Glint has been around for a few thousand years, and by our standards, an ancient creature. Primordus, however, is MANY times the size, age, and power of Glint. He has been around since near the beginning of time (or so we have been led to believe), and has power equal to that of a god.
...Not to mention Glint isn't that attractive :P
Any possibility of an ancient dragon in Cantha can be dismissed by 2 things.
1) Absolutely no mention of it in the Movement of the world
2) Both those statues have their eyes open, as does another one in Sunjiang District. Dragons do NOT sleep with their eyes open.
(Oh my god those lore pages are horrific, I want to delete them >_<)
But this does bring up the question, how did Canthans learn of dragons? the only way I could possibly see is through Kuunavang and the serpents in the jade sea...
Free Runner
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
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| But this does bring up the question, how did Canthans learn of dragons? the only way I could possibly see is through Kuunavang and the serpents in the jade sea... |
Neo Atomisk
I mean the Dragons that they built statues of. but i forgot that dragons appear as non super magical creqtures in cantha. wasnt thinking, bleh
Lishy
I think you guys are forgetting prophecies' original manuscripts.
It talks about the dragons about how they were defeated because humans can craft armor and weaponry while they cannot.
I forgot and I lost the manuscripts but it was something like that X_x
Anyways, the "kaineng" lighthouses look very similar to many other dragon monuments such as the "air" dragon.
I doubt they're the leading dragons, but perhaps generals of some sort.
Also, just a random thought, but I don't think we will be fighting the dragons. They may just be a faction of some sort.
It talks about the dragons about how they were defeated because humans can craft armor and weaponry while they cannot.
I forgot and I lost the manuscripts but it was something like that X_x
Anyways, the "kaineng" lighthouses look very similar to many other dragon monuments such as the "air" dragon.
I doubt they're the leading dragons, but perhaps generals of some sort.
Also, just a random thought, but I don't think we will be fighting the dragons. They may just be a faction of some sort.
Obrien Xp
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
I think you guys are forgetting prophecies' original manuscripts.
It talks about the dragons about how they were defeated because humans can craft armor and weaponry while they cannot. I forgot and I lost the manuscripts but it was something like that X_x Anyways, the "kaineng" lighthouses look very similar to many other dragon monuments such as the "air" dragon. I doubt they're the leading dragons, but perhaps generals of some sort. Also, just a random thought, but I don't think we will be fighting the dragons. They may just be a faction of some sort. |
A lighthouse is a lighthouse, we've been over this. I am positive that we will fight the dragons. I doubt the dragons were subdued by humans just because, we had swords. There's far more to it than that.
Free Runner
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
I think you guys are forgetting prophecies' original manuscripts.
It talks about the dragons about how they were defeated because humans can craft armor and weaponry while they cannot. I forgot and I lost the manuscripts but it was something like that X_x |
And yes the lighthous is just a lighthouse. Not a general or ancient dragon.
Konig Des Todes
Shall I pick apart piece by piece? Yes? Ok.
Just look at what Free Runner said. It never said dragons. Re-read the manuscripts unless you're trolling. If you're trolling, gfto 
And it doesn't matter if you lost the manuscripts, they are copied word for word on both wikis *well, at least the official one, should be on the unofficial too*
It does not look like the "Ice Pillar Dragon" *the more accurate name, as that's the name of the concept art for that "dragon"*, as the :"Ice Pillar Dragon" looks more like an iguana. The only similar part of them is that they spiral around. And that is not enough to call them generals or dragons. It's not even enough to call the ice pillar dragon anything more than an ice pillar that froze a creature!
Anet already said that they are the antagonist. At the end of Ogden's Benediction, it talks about a threat as Primordus' eye opens.
While it's possible, that would mean that they have intelligence. Which does not appear to be the case from what we know of. Of course, what we know of them is limited and viewed from the attacked point of view and would thus be bias. So it may change.
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
I think you guys are forgetting prophecies' original manuscripts.
It talks about the dragons about how they were defeated because humans can craft armor and weaponry while they cannot. I forgot and I lost the manuscripts but it was something like that X_x |
And it doesn't matter if you lost the manuscripts, they are copied word for word on both wikis *well, at least the official one, should be on the unofficial too*Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Anyways, the "kaineng" lighthouses look very similar to many other dragon monuments such as the "air" dragon.
I doubt they're the leading dragons, but perhaps generals of some sort. |
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Also, just a random thought, but I don't think we will be fighting the dragons. They may just be a faction of some sort.
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While it's possible, that would mean that they have intelligence. Which does not appear to be the case from what we know of. Of course, what we know of them is limited and viewed from the attacked point of view and would thus be bias. So it may change.
Neo Atomisk
Obrien probably got confused about when the manuscripts say something like "humans had no need for claws or hides, they could forge steel weapons and armor"
But there are no ancient dragons in Cantha. the oldest one is Kuunavang.
To beat Konig to it in THIS topic, "anet did not think of the ancient dragons until eotn." this means that we cannot see anything about the ancient dragons outside eotn, period. however, the dragons do employ the undead armies and navies of palawa joko and the corsairs.
But there are no ancient dragons in Cantha. the oldest one is Kuunavang.
To beat Konig to it in THIS topic, "anet did not think of the ancient dragons until eotn." this means that we cannot see anything about the ancient dragons outside eotn, period. however, the dragons do employ the undead armies and navies of palawa joko and the corsairs.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk
To beat Konig to it in THIS topic, "anet did not think of the ancient dragons until eotn."
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
GW2 and the Ancient Dragons were thought up during the development of Utopia. That means after Nightfall was finished *maybe not out yet though* and long after Prophecies and Factions were out.
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Obrien Xp
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
I think you guys are forgetting prophecies' original manuscripts.
It talks about the dragons about how they were defeated because humans can craft armor and weaponry while they cannot. |
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Originally Posted by Obrien Xp
I'll have to disagree with all of the above. All of it.
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Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk
Obrien probably got confused about when the manuscripts say something like "humans had no need for claws or hides, they could forge steel weapons and armor"
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draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
There are no dragons in Cantha. None at all. All the dragons that are visible are visible in Eye of the North. You cannot see any others in Elona, Cantha or Southern Tyria. The thing your talking about is probably one of the statues that shares its skin with the Twin Serpents of Underworld.
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I suspect you mean that there are no Ancient Dragons in Cantha - which is, as far as we can determine, true. The connection of Cantha with dragons comes more from the relatively weak dragons that are known to be present (of which Kuunavang and Albax appear to be the strongest known examples) and from the Celestial Dragon mentioned in the Dragon Festival, which may or may not be connected to Tah Mu but certainly doesn't seem to be one of Primordius' peers.
Gmr Leon
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Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk
however, the dragons do employ the undead armies and navies of palawa joko and the corsairs.
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So, technically, Malchor has control over its own independent forces, and is more likely to be using the Undead Army of Orr, rather than Palawa's army. Not only that, but all the Corsairs really seem to have is a navy, or armada, and even then, I doubt they were all around Orr when Malchor rose, so only a part of its navy consists of the Corsairs.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by GmrLeon
Not only that, but all the Corsairs really seem to have is a navy, or armada, and even then, I doubt they were all around Orr when Malchor rose, so only a part of its navy consists of the Corsairs.
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Konig Des Todes
I'd say "Malchor's" army consists of what remains of the Orrian Undead that were in Orr, and the Corsairs who were in the area. Their Navy being fully Corsair Undead, and their land army being fully Orrian Undead.
Neo Atomisk
woah, i've always thought palawa joko allied with the dragon. O.o
but still, Malchor is using the corsairs as a fighting force.
but still, Malchor is using the corsairs as a fighting force.
draxynnic
Evil is not monolithic.
Besides, Palawa seems content to rule, while the Ancient Dragons' behaviour towards human (and other) civilisations seems to be limited to 'destroy'.
Besides, Palawa seems content to rule, while the Ancient Dragons' behaviour towards human (and other) civilisations seems to be limited to 'destroy'.
Obrien Xp
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Evil is not monolithic.
Besides, Palawa seems content to rule, while the Ancient Dragons' behaviour towards human (and other) civilisations seems to be limited to 'destroy'. |
Free Runner
The Undead Dragons army is described as looking like draconian troops. So it could have its own minions and be using the corsairs to expand out. Or perhaps it uses the Corsairs as fodder while keeping its true forces closer to Orr (the passage does say that the troops are encountered inside Orr).
Or it could be just the effect of what happens when the dragons breath changes the victim. Each dragon appears to be holding its terrotory, excluding the Dragon of Grothmar Wardowns whos location isnt really clear. Primordus holds the Depths, the Orrian Dragon holds Orr, the Dragon of Ice and Snow holds the Far Shiverpeaks and the Deep Sea Dragon holds the sea. Not mentioning the "desert dragon" (i do wish Anet would answer as to if its a seperate Dragon or the Dragon from Grothmar).
So when you look at it, they could indeed be preparing to attack each other. It really depends on how long they have been around (as in awake, active and on the surface).
Or it could be just the effect of what happens when the dragons breath changes the victim. Each dragon appears to be holding its terrotory, excluding the Dragon of Grothmar Wardowns whos location isnt really clear. Primordus holds the Depths, the Orrian Dragon holds Orr, the Dragon of Ice and Snow holds the Far Shiverpeaks and the Deep Sea Dragon holds the sea. Not mentioning the "desert dragon" (i do wish Anet would answer as to if its a seperate Dragon or the Dragon from Grothmar).
So when you look at it, they could indeed be preparing to attack each other. It really depends on how long they have been around (as in awake, active and on the surface).
Grim Lich
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
So when you look at it, they could indeed be preparing to attack each other. It really depends on how long they have been around (as in awake, active and on the surface).
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I think we assume Primodius is the leader because we were fomally introduced to him first. Also he looks awesome.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
It really depends on how long they have been around (as in awake, active and on the surface).
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So, some have time to build their army and attack, others like Grothmar, do not.
Obrien Xp
Anyways, I'm going to stick with the belief that the Grothmar Dragon is not on the map to scale. Though you cannot explore it exactly, it has clouded parts all over, that may cause it to be inflated.
The 8th
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Originally Posted by vamp08
Not to mention debating over a fantasy creature is not screaming "vergin!" loud enough in your ears?
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..and with that out of the way, I'm thinking the dragons are gonna wake up and begin waging war against eachother. I doubt they'll regard everything else on the planets as much more than rescources to be used against the other dragons. I'm gettin' all sort of giddy C'Tan vibes from the ancient dragon plotline but I think I'm gonna have to save my insane theories and elaborations for when I'm fed a little bit more info.
..off topic? What? Oh right, the original issue. I still really think it was just a scaling error that ANet hoped nobody would notice. They shoulda really known better though. I'm pretty sure there's a thread floating arounnd here somewhere debating how many real steps it would take to get from LA to AC. >.>
Operative 14
Another way to look at it is that Grothmar might not be a 'dragon' in the traditional sense. Primordious looks like an encyclopedic example of what a dragon should look like. Drakkar, however has these weird spiky arms, a flattened head, and looks like a cross between a Preying Mantis and a Plesiosaur with nods to the traditional dragon icon. Grothmar might be more of a turtle, with the large outer shell covering a (smaller) body underneath.
Or it might be a protective cocoon covering a much smaller body as well. There's a fish in Africa that does this (a membrane it makes to protect itself from drought) but I can't remember the name, aside from the obvious moth comparison as well. To me, it looks like the features we see of Grothmar are heavily armored and made for protection. This might just be the traditional heavily armored dragon we have in world mythology, or it might also just be a specifically made protective armor made to survive millenia of abuse and attacks as well.
Or it might be a protective cocoon covering a much smaller body as well. There's a fish in Africa that does this (a membrane it makes to protect itself from drought) but I can't remember the name, aside from the obvious moth comparison as well. To me, it looks like the features we see of Grothmar are heavily armored and made for protection. This might just be the traditional heavily armored dragon we have in world mythology, or it might also just be a specifically made protective armor made to survive millenia of abuse and attacks as well.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by The 8th
Wrong place wrong time. Some would argue that not only playing an MMO but posting on a forum dedicated to discussing and analyzing said MMO would amount to about the same.
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Originally Posted by Operative 14
Another way to look at it is that Grothmar might not be a 'dragon' in the traditional sense. Primordious looks like an encyclopedic example of what a dragon should look like. Drakkar, however has these weird spiky arms, a flattened head, and looks like a cross between a Preying Mantis and a Plesiosaur with nods to the traditional dragon icon. Grothmar might be more of a turtle, with the large outer shell covering a (smaller) body underneath.
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Operative 14
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Well, there are plenty of 'turtle dragons' (tortoise dragons, more accurately) both in Guild Wars (although we don't know just what the relationship between Canthan dragons and Ancient dragons is) and real-world mythology (Tarrasque, as well as the inspiration source for the Canthan turtle dragons). |
Free Runner
The Dragon of Grothmar Wardowns actually reminds me of a type of dinosaur. I cant actually remember the name of them but heres the one i'm talking about.
Though if the Movement of the World was indeed talking about that dragon when it said one flew over Ascalon, the Grothmar dragon should also have wings.
Though if the Movement of the World was indeed talking about that dragon when it said one flew over Ascalon, the Grothmar dragon should also have wings.
Operative 14
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
Though if the Movement of the World was indeed talking about that dragon when it said one flew over Ascalon, the Grothmar dragon should also have wings.
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Obrien Xp
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
The Dragon of Grothmar Wardowns actually reminds me of a type of dinosaur. I cant actually remember the name of them but heres the one i'm talking about.
-snip pic- |
If this were true, we'd be seeing something along the lines of Kunnavang with a hardened spike-back. It's far more likely a spinal cord if anyting.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Obrien Xp
If this were true, we'd be seeing something along the lines of Kunnavang with a hardened spike-back.
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draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Operative 14
Not necessarily, Jade Sea Dragons hardly seem to use their wings. They look like they're vestigial or more for decoration than anything else. It's quite possible that there might be a magical explanation for how both they and Grothmar fly. And hence, why it has to leave an exhaust plume of evil below where it flies.
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Neo Atomisk
affjqhfndbs
I was gonna say that Grothmar looked like a dinosaur yesterday, stupid ban.
Grothmar could easily be a land-locked Dragon, unless it explicitly states it in the movement of the world, I guess that'd be the case. But if it has been said tht he flies i'm just goin crazy. No wings at all either.
I was gonna say that Grothmar looked like a dinosaur yesterday, stupid ban.
Grothmar could easily be a land-locked Dragon, unless it explicitly states it in the movement of the world, I guess that'd be the case. But if it has been said tht he flies i'm just goin crazy. No wings at all either.
Konig Des Todes
What is mentioned in the Movement:
Not land based.
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Originally Posted by Dragons
Only a few years ago, yet another dragon erupted from the northern mountains and flew south over the Charr territory of Ascalon. The land directly below the path of the dragon’s flight was corrupted, becoming a crater of horror. The ground blackened from the dragon's presence and any creatures caught within the wind of its breath twisted and changed.
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Operative 14
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Originally Posted by Movement of the World
Only a few years ago, yet another dragon erupted from the northern mountains and flew south over the Charr territory of Ascalon. The land directly below the path of the dragon’s flight was corrupted, becoming a crater of horror. The ground blackened from the dragon's presence and any creatures caught within the wind of its breath twisted and changed.
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Konig Des Todes
That's hard to say, to be honest. Of the dragons we've seen, it can't be Drakkar because there is no other dragon to drive the Norn south (the "Ice Pillar" dragon would push them further north, if not split them) and while it can be the "Ice Pillar" dragon, then the question has to be asked who is "Grothmar?"
I'd have to guess that both Grothmar's size and location changes in GW2. Grothmar shrinking and moving to the mountains not far north from where it is now.
I'd have to guess that both Grothmar's size and location changes in GW2. Grothmar shrinking and moving to the mountains not far north from where it is now.
Neo Atomisk
Honestly, I feel like Grothmar being the water dragon, will be land/water locked.
Malchor comes up from Orr, so it can't be him, right?
I'm having trouble thnking... maybe i should stop doin this for finals x_x
EDIT: lets make a list.
Deep Sea Dragon blocking passage to Cantha - unknown, CANNOT be malchor.
-It is stated that ANOTHER dragon rises from the depths, and apparently controls water.
Undead Dragon from Orr - Malchor
-Stated in movement of the world
Dragon that drives the norn south - Drakkar (?), Ice cliff chasms dragon
-The only dragon I can see driving the norn south, unless the ice cliff chasms serpent is a legit dragon.
-Gunnar's hold fell to creatures of Ice and snow, and if the armie's themes follow the dragons, It has to be Drakkar or the ice dragon, all that matters is if the ice cliff dragon is a true dragon or not.
Dragon that is controlling the Crystal desert - Malchor
I don't know if Malchor can control all of southern tyria, but meh.
Dragon that flies down from The Far Shiverpeaks - Drakkar (?), Primordus
Only plausible one I can see, not mentioned anywhere else. Primordus is in the Shiverpeaks, just northwest of Ascalon, He has wings. It is not explicitly stated that the dragon had just woke up, Primordus had been apparently underground.
I'll edit this bit by bit... Rereading movement of the world.
If you have any input, please, copy+paste the organizer and add what you think.
Malchor comes up from Orr, so it can't be him, right?
I'm having trouble thnking... maybe i should stop doin this for finals x_x
EDIT: lets make a list.
Deep Sea Dragon blocking passage to Cantha - unknown, CANNOT be malchor.
-It is stated that ANOTHER dragon rises from the depths, and apparently controls water.
Undead Dragon from Orr - Malchor
-Stated in movement of the world
Dragon that drives the norn south - Drakkar (?), Ice cliff chasms dragon
-The only dragon I can see driving the norn south, unless the ice cliff chasms serpent is a legit dragon.
-Gunnar's hold fell to creatures of Ice and snow, and if the armie's themes follow the dragons, It has to be Drakkar or the ice dragon, all that matters is if the ice cliff dragon is a true dragon or not.
Dragon that is controlling the Crystal desert - Malchor
I don't know if Malchor can control all of southern tyria, but meh.
Dragon that flies down from The Far Shiverpeaks - Drakkar (?), Primordus
Only plausible one I can see, not mentioned anywhere else. Primordus is in the Shiverpeaks, just northwest of Ascalon, He has wings. It is not explicitly stated that the dragon had just woke up, Primordus had been apparently underground.
I'll edit this bit by bit... Rereading movement of the world.
If you have any input, please, copy+paste the organizer and add what you think.
Free Runner
Since the dragon flew South over Ascalon i doubt it is anything other than Grothmar. It sounds more to me like the Movement of the World incorrectly calling the Charr Homelands the Northen Mountains. It cant be the Drakkar Lake dragon because the article hints very heavely at it being the Dragon of Ice and Snow, which is supposed to be holding up in the Far Shiverpeaks. And we still dont know what the lizard thing is yet...
The following ones are confirmed:
- Primordus
- Undead Orrian Dragon
- Dragon of Ice and Snow
- The dragon of Grothmar Wardowns
- Deep Sea Dragon
Then there are the inconsistent ones:
-The Desert Dragon - Unknown if its the same dragon that flew down from the North or a completely new dragon. All thats known is its giving the Order of Whispers trouble.
- The Dragon from the North - I'm pretty sure this is the same dragon that used to reside in Grothmar but its still not confirmed.
- The Lizard - this ones a far stretch. It looks like a ice sculpture but upon closer inspection it is a frozen lizard - and a very large one. So it could be connected to the dragons or it could be a lizard that met its fate. Best bet is some type of general much like the Great Destroyer.
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Deep Sea Dragon blocking passage to Cantha - unknown, CANNOT be malchor. -It is stated that ANOTHER dragon rises from the depths, and apparently controls water. Undead Dragon from Orr - Malchor -Stated in movement of the world Dragon that drives the norn south - Drakkar (?), Ice cliff chasms dragon -The only dragon I can see driving the norn south, unless the ice cliff chasms serpent is a legit dragon. -Gunnar's hold fell to creatures of Ice and snow, and if the armie's themes follow the dragons, It has to be Drakkar or the ice dragon, all that matters is if the ice cliff dragon is a true dragon or not. Dragon that is controlling the Crystal desert - Malchor I don't know if Malchor can control all of southern tyria, but meh. Dragon that flies down from The Far Shiverpeaks - Drakkar (?), Primordus Only plausible one I can see, not mentioned anywhere else. Primordus is in the Shiverpeaks, just northwest of Ascalon, He has wings. It is not explicitly stated that the dragon had just woke up, Primordus had been apparently underground. |
- Primordus
- Undead Orrian Dragon
- Dragon of Ice and Snow
- The dragon of Grothmar Wardowns
- Deep Sea Dragon
Then there are the inconsistent ones:
-The Desert Dragon - Unknown if its the same dragon that flew down from the North or a completely new dragon. All thats known is its giving the Order of Whispers trouble.
- The Dragon from the North - I'm pretty sure this is the same dragon that used to reside in Grothmar but its still not confirmed.
- The Lizard - this ones a far stretch. It looks like a ice sculpture but upon closer inspection it is a frozen lizard - and a very large one. So it could be connected to the dragons or it could be a lizard that met its fate. Best bet is some type of general much like the Great Destroyer.
Neo Atomisk
But Primordus being the desert dragon seems to work for me... I don't know why.
I am going to see if I can ask a-net the exact amount of ancient dragons in GW2, that should give us a lot of insight on who's who.
I am going to see if I can ask a-net the exact amount of ancient dragons in GW2, that should give us a lot of insight on who's who.
Free Runner
Primordus cant be the desert dragon. Hes the dragon thats underground driving the Asura out. And the Undead Dragon is if i remember correctly , in Arah.