What heroes? For Warrior
Super Igor
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Originally Posted by upier
I wouldn't call that "not gimping" yourself.
With Discord its very simple, dont wanna run AP call, dont run discord at all.
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Originally Posted by syphonus
It's already gimped by the fact that it's doing the same job as N/A, but much worse. No one wants to play like that.
Could you come up with a quote which is less retarded?
Also, you have no right to speak for everyone. Hexes N/A has are just an icing on a cake, it's all about first four skills, AP, YMLaD!, EVAS, FH! Huge unblockable spike on their own, knock-lock, snare, interrupt, hex, instant condition, instant 80 dmg + DW and cracked in just four skills so you have 4 slots free to take whatever you want. Oh, and all of your skills have no recharge too pretty much. Should be obvious why it MUST be used to call for Discord spikes by all classes cept Warrior, for them it's somewhat argueable because some people are too stupid to manage their energy. oO
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by Super Igor
With Discord its very simple, dont wanna run AP call, dont run discord at all. |
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Also, you have no right to speak for everyone.
I say the same to you.
Post Edited by Cebe: Removed flaming content.
Post Edited by Cebe: Removed flaming content.
upier
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Originally Posted by Super Igor
With Discord its very simple, dont wanna run AP call, dont run discord at all.
After you trash your staff resources, that's ALL the energy you'll have. Unless you suck at killing of course. In which case you'll regen more.
If you are killing fast enough, you really don't have time to wand. That also means you can't really gain adrenaline. So adrenal skills are out of the question. And the only reason why I brought up adrenal skills is because you don't have the resources to use energy skills.
Which means you use 2 skills out of 8 for the majority of all fights.
And one of those two skills that are being used isn't SY!
Bring SY!, buff up the guy with Splinter/SoH and this guy will do wonders.
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Quote: Originally Posted by upier
You'll probably gain some 20 energy after you kill off a foe. That includes AP and natural regen.
After you trash your staff resources, that's ALL the energy you'll have. Unless you suck at killing of course. In which case you'll regen more.
If you are killing fast enough, you really don't have time to wand. That also means you can't really gain adrenaline. So adrenal skills are out of the question. And the only reason why I brought up adrenal skills is because you don't have the resources to use energy skills.
Which means you use 2 skills out of 8 for the majority of all fights.
And one of those two skills that are being used isn't SY!
Bring SY!, buff up the guy with Splinter/SoH and this guy will do wonders. You dont have to have SY! with Discord, I rolled through every area with my Sin and Discordway and never expirienced a need for that 100AL boos, I know it wont hurt but it's not a requrement.
Splinter/SoH...have you actually made a full build with them before saying this? Because if you did, you wouldve destroyed the entire focus of the build as well as attribute spreads, defense, utility.
Your Discordway will start working like sabway with resto and curse specced geavily to death magic for some broken reason and now you call Discord with a caller gimped?? I laugh.
Might as well really run a classic 3 necro then, or even better run 2 necros and a rit for a hawt 14 spec splinter!
As for "can uze only 2 skillz baww" argument of yours...wrong!
As I have said previously, on a Warrior you dont have to use all four skills, you can drop EVAS and it will be enough for an effective and fast spike.
AP + YMLaD + FH! cost 25 energy, like you said, you gain 20 back so each spike you lose 5 energy out of your ~40 with a staff.
If you want SY! then take FGJ!, Lion's Comfort and SY! You could mantain FGJ! indefenetely, two wants will charge LC, one cast of LC will charge SY!
Thats 3 seconds to get SY! up, roughly the time taken to spike down a lvl28 mob, maybe a bit more but it doesnt matter, what matters is that you can have SY! up all the time without a problem.
Like I said, hf gimping yourself or like you call it "being original".
Post Edited by Cebe: Removed Reference to deleted post.
After you trash your staff resources, that's ALL the energy you'll have. Unless you suck at killing of course. In which case you'll regen more.
If you are killing fast enough, you really don't have time to wand. That also means you can't really gain adrenaline. So adrenal skills are out of the question. And the only reason why I brought up adrenal skills is because you don't have the resources to use energy skills.
Which means you use 2 skills out of 8 for the majority of all fights.
And one of those two skills that are being used isn't SY!
Bring SY!, buff up the guy with Splinter/SoH and this guy will do wonders. You dont have to have SY! with Discord, I rolled through every area with my Sin and Discordway and never expirienced a need for that 100AL boos, I know it wont hurt but it's not a requrement.
Splinter/SoH...have you actually made a full build with them before saying this? Because if you did, you wouldve destroyed the entire focus of the build as well as attribute spreads, defense, utility.
Your Discordway will start working like sabway with resto and curse specced geavily to death magic for some broken reason and now you call Discord with a caller gimped?? I laugh.
Might as well really run a classic 3 necro then, or even better run 2 necros and a rit for a hawt 14 spec splinter!
As for "can uze only 2 skillz baww" argument of yours...wrong!
As I have said previously, on a Warrior you dont have to use all four skills, you can drop EVAS and it will be enough for an effective and fast spike.
AP + YMLaD + FH! cost 25 energy, like you said, you gain 20 back so each spike you lose 5 energy out of your ~40 with a staff.
If you want SY! then take FGJ!, Lion's Comfort and SY! You could mantain FGJ! indefenetely, two wants will charge LC, one cast of LC will charge SY!
Thats 3 seconds to get SY! up, roughly the time taken to spike down a lvl28 mob, maybe a bit more but it doesnt matter, what matters is that you can have SY! up all the time without a problem.
Like I said, hf gimping yourself or like you call it "being original".
Post Edited by Cebe: Removed Reference to deleted post.
Unreal Havoc
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
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Like I said prviously, I like maximum efficiency, AP caller gives it to Discord.
Also, decifer the bolded bit.
Quote: Im not the only one that thinks playing a W like a caster is bloody retarded and in terms of usage , e-management and style of playing i wont say that is impossible but is worthless and pointless to stuck in that one-mind style of playing when you can go smooth on Sabway or another Phys way making small changes depending on the zone you are playing at. I yet have to see an good player say that running AP caller with Discord is retarded.
Also, Sabway sucks compared to Discord, if you think otherwise your Discord setup must be terrible...
Originally Posted by traversc
Conclusion: Play discordway, if you don't mind feeling gimp. Play sabway, if you don't mind playing an outdated build. Otherwise, you need to create your own build, since there's currently nothing else you can wiki. There are plenty of options, of course. People just need to quit bitching, IMO and be constructive. Yeah because saying "play discord" and rage against any1 that says the opposite is not bitching and being constructive. Thats what some of us are trying because fyi ( i dont know if u read the thread ) the guy already said that is not going to play as an AP caller and already knows discord builds so think anything else and follow your own advice instead dropping posts like this , thanks.
Originally Posted by traversc
I don't actually see much disagreement of opinion here. I just see a bunch of people arguing because they like to. Let me help:
S1: running an AP caller is going to be faster with discordway, even with a warrior for a large majority of areas.
S2: Yes, it is sad, playing your warrior as a caster. It makes you feel gimped. I bet you could even get Igor to admit this if you press him
S3: Sabway is outdated and discordway is generally better with an AP caller. Sabway performs better if the player is not an AP caller.
Conclusion: Play discordway, if you don't mind feeling gimp.
Play sabway, if you don't mind playing an outdated build. Otherwise, you need to create your own build, since there's currently nothing else you can wiki. There are plenty of options, of course. People just need to quit bitching, IMO and be constructive.
Opinion: Tenebrae et al accuse Igor of going off topic, but guess what? They are doing the exact same thing.
Pot, meet kettle. Even mods and admins can't press me, these guys dont have a chance.
It's about how you look at it.
On it's own, a Warrior with a staff is likely to make you go wtf but when my goal is to make my Discord heroes work efficiently as long as it does that I'm fine with it.
Agree with everything else you said.
S1: running an AP caller is going to be faster with discordway, even with a warrior for a large majority of areas.
S2: Yes, it is sad, playing your warrior as a caster. It makes you feel gimped. I bet you could even get Igor to admit this if you press him
S3: Sabway is outdated and discordway is generally better with an AP caller. Sabway performs better if the player is not an AP caller.
Conclusion: Play discordway, if you don't mind feeling gimp.
Play sabway, if you don't mind playing an outdated build. Otherwise, you need to create your own build, since there's currently nothing else you can wiki. There are plenty of options, of course. People just need to quit bitching, IMO and be constructive.
Opinion: Tenebrae et al accuse Igor of going off topic, but guess what? They are doing the exact same thing.
Pot, meet kettle. Even mods and admins can't press me, these guys dont have a chance.
It's about how you look at it.
On it's own, a Warrior with a staff is likely to make you go wtf but when my goal is to make my Discord heroes work efficiently as long as it does that I'm fine with it.
Agree with everything else you said.
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Igor, you don't have to respond with double-posts just because it's 2 separate responses.
_Nihilist_
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Originally Posted by Super Igor
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Care to explain how I'm wrong?
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If you want to play a game where every Profession/Class/Occupation is the same, GTFO of GW and play Tic-Tac-Toe. Same damn difference.
What the hell does that have to do with running Discordway on three of your heroes? Better yet, who the hell are you to tell anyone else how to play the game they paid for? When it's hero and hench it affects no one other than the person running the build so you have no legitimate reason to even go there. If you have a problem with people running powerful hero builds I suggest you take your complaint up with Anet, because you can hardly blame a player for exploiting a powerful hero setup. If I have the choice of running a good build or a sub par one I'm going to run the good one until it gets nerfed then I'll find another alternative. Super Igor
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Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong
The only selling point that Discordway has vs. other builds is that anyone can run it. That's it. You need to be an Assassin, doesn't matter whether primary or secondary (yup, that means any player can run it, including the gimped Warrior with a staff who can't even consistently run the full chain), and the 3 skills you use besides Assassin's Promise are PvE-rank skills that can be used by any Profession. That's the single reason that Discordway is "great". Not just that. Going by your logic anybody can run Sabway, any profession and yet it went absolete. Certainly there are other factors that make Discord a superior concept in the meta. Reason people run Discord is because it kills so fast, mobs that wouldve caused you trouble crumble under 4 sec knocklock and insane spike, minion wall, defense.
_Nihilist_
Can't do a Forum Search ATM (ugh, still) so I can't pull some of the better posts on why it's not as good as everyone makes it out to be.
Calling Discordway the most powerful/best is like saying someone who won the Special Olympics is the best - sure, they won, but everyone there was competing with some kind of difficulty to begin with. (paraphrased from another Forum Member here) Sure, Discordway works, but as you've said time and again, Arkantos, it's PvE, you can beat it with an empty skillbar and non-max weapon. Discord's prime selling point is that the caller uses AP+3 PvE only skills. Hardly any attribute investment is necessary, any caster can use it well, any character can use it, though maybe not as efficiently (as is the point made earlier of a W/A being the caller - it doesn't work as well). Still, it's ignoring the fact that Discord is on a 2sec timer, the "spike" (which is more like a few mini-spikes because if you don't "spike" it's just pressure) is armor-mitigated damage, and when AP gets removed, that completely kills the only thing that keeps the Caller in the game. If the caller gets removed, one of the Heroes has to interrupt the Discord chain to get Conditions back rolling for Discord to work if the Caller didn't bring other options. Discord is only "arguably" the best because you can go through most areas of the game with it. Not the fastest, not the best, but it can make it through with little variation of the skillbars. Doesn't mean it takes the cake.
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong
Can't do a Forum Search ATM (ugh, still) so I can't pull some of the better posts on why it's not as good as everyone makes it out to be.
Calling Discordway the most powerful/best is like saying someone who won the Special Olympics is the best - sure, they won, but everyone there was competing with some kind of difficulty to begin with. (paraphrased from another Forum Member here) Sure, Discordway works, but as you've said time and again, Arkantos, it's PvE, you can beat it with an empty skillbar and non-max weapon. Discord's prime selling point is that the caller uses AP+3 PvE only skills. Hardly any attribute investment is necessary, any caster can use it well, any character can use it, though maybe not as efficiently (as is the point made earlier of a W/A being the caller - it doesn't work as well). Still, it's ignoring the fact that Discord is on a 2sec timer, the "spike" (which is more like a few mini-spikes because if you don't "spike" it's just pressure) is armor-mitigated damage, and when AP gets removed, that completely kills the only thing that keeps the Caller in the game. If the caller gets removed, one of the Heroes has to interrupt the Discord chain to get Conditions back rolling for Discord to work if the Caller didn't bring other options. Discord is only "arguably" the best because you can go through most areas of the game with it. Not the fastest, not the best, but it can make it through with little variation of the skillbars. Doesn't mean it takes the cake. You can beat PvE with an empty skillbar, and you can beat PvE with discordway. The difference is speed and effectiveness. Just because you can complete something with a bad build doesn't make a good build any worse. You don't have to be an AP caller to effectively run discordway, so that argument is pretty moot. It can go through areas faster than most other h/h builds, and it can go through areas better than most other h/h builds. It's arguably the best because it works better than the others.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
It's arguably the best because it works better than the others.
I dislike the statement. The wording is such that I can't immediatly call it totally stupid however.
Discord will work for almost every player in almost every area. That does not automatically make it the best build for whatever job you have in mind.
_Nihilist_
It doesn't help that people use the word "arguably" to represent proof, when the word "arguable" means that something is subject to be proven:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
Quote: Use arguable in a Sentence –adjective 1. susceptible to debate, challenge, or doubt; questionable: Whether this is the best plan of action or not is arguable. 2. susceptible to being supported by convincing or persuasive argument: Admirers agree that it is arguable he is the finest pianist of his generation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Origin: 1605–15; argue + -able Related forms: ar⋅gu⋅a⋅bly, adverb |
Even though the second usage seems to be more positive, being susceptible to being supported means that if there isn't supporting proof, the argument collapses.
