How to bring back old, good PUGging days in PvE and end this Hero nonsense in PvP - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

AmbientMelody

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2009

Poland

N/A

14 Jun 2009 at 21:26 - 1

Like in the topic.

'How to bring back old, good PUGging days in PvE and end this Hero nonsense in PvP, while retaining heroes and henchmen useful in their respective manner'

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

I have a remedy for all of your problems. It will very successfully actually force people to form teams, but it won't render heroes useless. There will be times when you will want to do a normal mode mission lonely with henchies and heroes just as you will be able to bolster your HM team with two heroes.

normal mode

1) maximum one hero per each human player
2) maximum 4 heroes in the party for 8+ players map, 3 heroes for 6 player man, 2 heroes for 4 player map
3) can fill all slots with henchmen in the party

hard mode

1) maximum one hero per each human player
2) maximum 2 heroes in the party no matter the difficulty
3) able to fill no more than 2 slots with henchmen in the party

PvP

1) heroes banned from any form of ranked pvp games excluding hero battles and guild scrimmages
2) in non-ranked/scrimmage games no limit on the use and availability of heroes

Advantages of such system?

1) grouping in HM makes sense, gimmick pve builds such as discord, imbagonway and other shit is dead
2) heroes still remain very useful and often well-skilled and well-equipped hero will be crucial since it's not too easy to get 8-man team each time
3) Urgoz/Deep/DOA/SF/any dungeon will become a place where real human cooperation is needed, heroes nonsense is over
4) now it's easier to focus on one or two heroes instead of wasting money and faction to get 4-8 heroes well equipped ... now you will be more likely to focus on no more than 3-5 well equipped diverse heroes since you can bring only one of them with you
5) pvp is again a human vs human fight, there is no room there for heroes ... and this brings old, good prophecies/factions days back in place ... perhaps HA level will rise since gimmick builds will be likely to die-off natural and painful death ... hero battles which are based solely about heroes micro and capping points is untouched

DarkGanni

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Malta

[CuTe]

E/

14 Jun 2009 at 21:32 - 2

Disadvantages of this system:

1) With one hero and limited Henchmen: I can't play how I want and when I want. That's enough to be a bad idea.

Also, the only thing that brought pugging back together is the zaishen quests.

You want a better GW? GW2 is the answer (or at least I hope it will).

Verene

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2009

[SOTA]

D/

14 Jun 2009 at 21:50 - 3

Yeah, big /unsigned here.

Why should people have to change the way they play and be forced to play in a way they don't want to?

mmmkay i am bad

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

hiding in ur basement =o

W/Rt

14 Jun 2009 at 21:52 - 4

/unsigned
play with enough nubs as it is =)

dusanyu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Illusion of skillz [Iz]

W/E

14 Jun 2009 at 22:06 - 5

/signed while i could Give a rats Fart about PvE it kills Heroes in PvP now that is worth it alone (the Extra PvE QQ's just sweeten the deal with a little music)

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

14 Jun 2009 at 22:15 - 6

For PvE, initiate Global Party Search. Until then, good luck.

Xsiriss

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

14 Jun 2009 at 22:16 - 7

Oh dear not another 'old school' player wanting the 'good old days back', I doubt you'd find someone willing to spam minions and death nova for a pug or even be say a sab healer. There's very few people who want this kind of thing...Leave PvE alone.

As for PvP just ban them except in HB.

Obrien Xp

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2009

Canada

The First Dragon Slayers [FDS]

14 Jun 2009 at 22:19 - 8

/unsigned

Enough QQ with heroes already

Forcing people is wrong and is a horrid idea period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

For PvE, initiate Global Party Search.

I like that very much

Though a translator would be nice until my German comes up to cut. Das ist gute nein?

lewis91

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Wales

Order of the Azurelight[OA]

E/

14 Jun 2009 at 22:21 - 9

In as much of a polite way i can, a big ****ing unsigned here. Just because i don't wanna play with people and face the possiblility of failing shouldn't mean i should be forced to play a game the way i want to.

REDdelver

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Girls Pee Pee When They See [ME]

N/Mo

14 Jun 2009 at 22:22 - 10

There are plenty of very active guilds out there. If you dont want to hero/hench, then by all means.....attempt to find a guild with activity.

Thats the beauty about things...we have options. Just have to utilize these options to best fit how you want to do things.

Lets be honest. Lets flash back to before hero's, where there was nothing but "pug" slamming threads of people tired of pugging. We finally get our cake and are able to eat it too, yet theres still people who dont like the icing. But hey, thats life in general.

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

14 Jun 2009 at 22:22 - 11

It would be great in a world where every city has lots of ppl to party ,there are plenty of ppl of each prof , they are not retarded and even so they have PvE skills and know where/when to use it ( with good rank for them ofc ).
Sadly we are not in that world , so very VERY BIG /NOTSIGNED

Marty Silverblade

Administrator

Join Date: Jun 2006

14 Jun 2009 at 22:32 - 12

If you want to group with people then go ahead. Don't force me to waste time failing vanquishes because I HAVE to take a bunch of useless failures with me.

/notsigned.

samerkablamer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

P/W

14 Jun 2009 at 22:52 - 13

I have an idea! whenever you go with a guildie you can limit yourself and bring henchies

/notsigned

Owik Gall

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guardians of the Light

W/Mo

14 Jun 2009 at 22:54 - 14

/unsigned.

Too many people complaining about the heroes instead of making the best out of them.

I can sense the guru admin approaching with the CLOSED hammer.

Unreal Havoc

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2007

14 Jun 2009 at 23:01 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

Forcing people is wrong and is a horrid idea period.

With this mindset aren't you technically forcing everyone into hero and henching their way through campaigns because no one will pug together?

It's a two sided coin there.

/notsigned however becuse it's too late in Guild Wars lifespan now to make a good difference. Most of the people who probably cared to play with real people probably left by now.

talon994

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2009

Ontario,Canada

聖光麒麟

W/

14 Jun 2009 at 23:16 - 16

9/10 of the PuG's i join i usually leave, why? because most of them are complete idiots

/notsigned i prefer heroes over idiots anyday

ajc2123

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

North of the wall

Me/

14 Jun 2009 at 23:33 - 17

The box I bought said something along the lines of go in a group OR bring a team of 'skilled' henchman.

/unsigned. I'll play it the way I want, with a controlled group. IE H/H

Pugs Not Drugs

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

14 Jun 2009 at 23:50 - 18

NO. Absolutely not.

On one of the first zquests, our leader was a warrior. He asked everyone else to ping his skills, but he refused to ping. He assured us he was a pro. On the first mob, me (the monk) saw him use [Mark of Protection]. I raged.

I 2-Man discord zquests now.

/unsigned

Spiritz

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

DMFC

14 Jun 2009 at 23:51 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

The box I bought said something along the lines of go in a group OR bring a team of 'skilled' henchman.

/unsigned. I'll play it the way I want, with a controlled group. IE H/H

If you find the skilled henchmen send them my way lol.

I like players who dont rage quit or think they`re indestructable an die within seconds - or those who actually do what they are told . .I also like players who dont in middle of a fight decide they have to depart for outside reasons.
.. oh wait thats heros/hench
/notsigned

Magi Ultimatus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2008

AB, Canada

15 Jun 2009 at 00:14 - 20

/unsigned a good thousand times. The mere thought of having to PuG gives me nightmares! If I wanted to fail something numerable times, I'd just walk into foundry with a Healing Hands tank.

Seraphim Angel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2008

Sacred Knights of Orr [SKoO]

P/

15 Jun 2009 at 00:39 - 21

/unsigned

And BTW didn't you just post this 10 min ago in another post??

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10380934

Vote to close.

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

15 Jun 2009 at 00:51 - 22

Ehmm... if this was implemented I'd just quit PvE...

The only time I ever PuGed in the last year or so (other than 2-man discordways that I do for z-quests now) was when monking for Ursan teams. It's kind of hard to fail at c-1-2-1-3-1-2-1-... even with PuG intelligence, which was why that was so PuG-friendly. If people really wanted PuGs then why did everyone want Ursan nerfed and such? IMO bring it back for HM if you want PuGs. And if you think it's boring then play Monk and try to keep your team alive with 2 other fail monks (hint: don't run that HB crap); there are plenty of other people who will willingly 12131121 for you.

Actually /signed for removing heroes from HA and GvG.

And /signed for making Hero Battles actually Hero Battles and not Hero Shrine Shadowstep Festival

HuntMaster Avatar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Around

Pillar's of Earth [ROCK]

W/

15 Jun 2009 at 01:01 - 23

/notsigned

because of this.

Quote:

normal mode

1) maximum one hero per each human player
2) maximum 4 heroes in the party for 8+ players map, 3 heroes for 6 player man, 2 heroes for 4 player map
3) can fill all slots with henchmen in the party

hard mode

1) maximum one hero per each human player
2) maximum 2 heroes in the party no matter the difficulty
3) able to fill no more than 2 slots with henchmen in the party

Yet another horrible anti hero/henchie idea.

Operative 14

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Arizona, USA

[OOP] Order of the Phoenix I

15 Jun 2009 at 01:08 - 24

This is an awful idea. In fact, I think a better tactic would be to limit it so that any team can only have a maximum of 2 players in it, and have up to 7 heros, but no less than 3 (other than you of course) in the party no matter which mode you play.

See, it doesn't make very much sense to rewrite the rules of a game to limit options and force people to play the way that you want, or can. I play with pugs, but I spend a lot of time playing with just me and my H/H team. If that was taken away, there would be NO WAY I could play anything in GW, except for farming.

Right now, GW has the option to satisfy both modes of play. Forcing people to play the way that you want them to play is just going to drive people away, or fill the world with frustrated players that would ruin the game anyway.

/Soincrediblynotsigned.

I don't play PvP that much so I can't really speak on your idea to remove Heros from PvP. However, I have to say it doesn't seem like there is any place for Heroes in PvP matches.

MisterT69

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Scions of Carver [SCAR]

E/

15 Jun 2009 at 01:43 - 25

stupid idea is stupid /notsigned. Sometimes I wanna vanq when people aren't on. Why the hell would I have to wait to find a group of 3-7 other people to do something me and the henchies can do just as well?

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

15 Jun 2009 at 02:00 - 26

This is a terrible idea.... It forces people to do things they don't want... The game is meant to be played however anyone wants it to be. If i want to be alone with Hench or Heroes, I will and no one can tell me otherwise.

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

15 Jun 2009 at 02:01 - 27

/notsigned

People do PUG for ZQuests, and I refuse to have to restart an incredibly long mission because I was stuck trying to heal a team full of leeroys.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

15 Jun 2009 at 02:20 - 28

People is way to spread trough the worls, its regions, it campaigns and its districts to add something like this.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

15 Jun 2009 at 02:35 - 29

People. Used. All. Henchman. Parties.

Restricting heroes will only serve to reduce the number of people playing the game, as the solo-ers get frustrated with having years of 3 heroes taken away from them. ZQuests have already been a tremendous boon to PUGs; I've been somewhat regularly PUG-ing them since they came out now, with mostly positive results, including some absolutely brutal slaughterings of "Hard Mode" missions. That is all PUGs really needed, a way of clustering everyone together to achieve a "critical mass" of players in one location all wanting to do one specific task. Why people are still beating the decomposing carcass that is the "dead PUGs" issue is beyond me; PUGs are freely available for anyone who cares to play with them. They're not always there to do what you want to do, but tell me how exactly will killing heroes suddenly make people want to PUG Moddok Crevice NM with you if there's no incentive to play it over again?

Maximillian Greil

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2009

E/

15 Jun 2009 at 02:36 - 30

why can't players that like to pug... just pug, there's enough of you, and players who want to HH, just HH. I actually wish I could take 7 heroes in a team. It would kill pve, but I'd enjoy it more. If you like to play with humans, get in a guild that does that. There's plenty of them.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

15 Jun 2009 at 02:38 - 31

I don't support some of the ideas, but it would be nice if there was a way to encourage more PUGs. Heroes are boring and make the game unworthy to play.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

15 Jun 2009 at 02:59 - 32

This is a terrible idea. The entire point of heroes is to allow me to get barely competent allies when my alliance isn't available so that I can complete the task at hand. I don't **want ** to be forced to PUG.

SaDuFam

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/E

15 Jun 2009 at 03:01 - 33

There is always a smart Alex in the game who never fails to response to a PUG request by saying 'You noob, this z-quest mission can easily H/H'. I know it can be done with H/H but I also like the option of playing with a PUG group. I have done most of my conquerer missions using H/H in odd hours. It is getting a bit boring to repeat a HM mission just playing with H/H.

aoeclald

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2008

United States

Pillars of the Earth [ROCK]

E/

15 Jun 2009 at 03:01 - 34

Why add heroes and then nerf them? People are tired of seeing a new gimmick and then it being nerfed to the edge of being able to be used. You are the very same type of person who wanted a nerf to Ursan, a nerf to permasin, a nerf to aegis chains, a nerf to SoH in PvP, and the list goes on and on. Stop whining about not playing with people when there are two very EASY anti-hero/henchie solutions:

Joining a guild OR using the LFG forum on Guru

Considering we already have 2 pages here in the short life of this thread, you could possbily find a few hunting mates just as quickly if you even looked at that LFG thread. :/

/notsigned

angelsarc

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

E/

15 Jun 2009 at 03:25 - 35

/notsigned. If I want to play with players, I do. If not, then I don't. Let me play with seven heroes.

bna6789

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

Raleigh, NC

Ferrymen Of The River [STYX]

D/A

15 Jun 2009 at 03:27 - 36

Um, yeah there ain't no way that I would ever play the game that way... that is not the game that I enjoy playing.
To me a video game should not be a forced stress inducer; as forcing people to play with others instead of HAVING THE OPTION to hero/hench everything in PvE. Sure you can get into a large guild, with a bunch of people that you don't know and form groups to complete missions/quests and what not, but for goodness sakes, let the people choose if they want to do that or go it alone... what do you want it to be, a communist game instead of democratic?

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

15 Jun 2009 at 03:55 - 37

/not signed. There have been 2 nice additions to the game that have breathed new life into PUGs - Z-quests and farming collectibles for Nicholas (lots of PUG formed up in Nundu Bay last week for the masks, for example)

One consequence of this is that most of the activity in-game centers around the Z-Quest/bounty of the day. (and Monday has become a farm-fest for gifts) These things draw people away from other places - making it HARDER to form a party in those places than it was even before heros came along.

Besides, there are some places where the selection of henchmen is utter crap. (I'm looking at you, Boreas Seabed!) and trying to do anything in Hard Mode with those henchmen is like smashing your thumb with a hammer - sure, you can do it, but it's not going to be any fun.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

15 Jun 2009 at 04:01 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

'How to bring back old, good PUGging days in PvE

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

Pickup Groups

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

good

Yeah no. PUGs suck, if you like PUGs, play with them; us H/H players aren't going to start playing with you guys. We don't want to be constantly insulted for playing well and have to watch swastikas and cocks on the mini-map.

Jugalo Dano

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

N/Me

15 Jun 2009 at 04:23 - 39

/not signed

While I do agree that heros don't belong in pvp, at all; reducing the hero limit in pve is a bad idea. Yeah, there are super awesome pve hero builds out there, but you would be surprised how many players don't even know about them or don't have the skills available to use such builds.

Also, read what Sky High wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

People. Used. All. Henchman. Parties.

Even back in the good old prophecies days, I had to use full henchmen teams all the time to get from town to town and to the next mission, and for the majority of quests. The only places where teams grouped were for the more challenging quests, storyline missions, and group farming spots like sorrows furnace, ToPK and ToA. Even getting groups together for the Titan quests was always a huge hassle.

Something like this would just bring around more threads on how much henchmen suck, you'll never be able to get a perfect enviornment where everyone groups with full teams everywhere they go.

R.Shayne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

15 Jun 2009 at 04:48 - 40

/notsigned

Heroes / Henchmen didn't kill pugs, players killed pugs becasue:

1) don't improve.

2) depend on other people to get them through missions.

3) do not bother to learn the mechanics of the game so we get to see builds like this.

The above skills is something I encountered because I felt sorry for someone that was unable to find a group in Gate of Madness. These were the only skills he had, after seeing this I suggested he go back to the beginning and start over. When he joined the group he asked me to kick my heroes and get real people.

If I desired to drag someone through a mission I would play with my wife.

Guild Wars does not have the numbers to support pugs in all the areas for that reason I would suggest unlocking seven heroes in UW & FoW for those that do not want to speed clear.