Weakest/Hardest classes to PvE with

Forgotton200

Forgotton200

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2008

Mo/

Go as Rit, 2 Rit heroes, your brother as rit and take 2 rit as well, 2 rit henchs. GL.

Squishy ftw

Squishy ftw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Your backline

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgotton200 View Post
Go as Rit, 2 Rit heroes, your brother as rit and take 2 rit as well, 2 rit henchs. GL. That's with or without abusing spirit's strength ?
Quote: Originally Posted by Windf0rce View Post
Myself and my brother are going to try a self imposed challenge now that we are pretty much done with our main characters now (not GWAMM, but all of PvE is beat).

Everyone claims "PvE is easy" and can be rolled with any class, so we want something more difficult and wanted to pick the weakest class(es) to finish PvE (including hard mode) with.

We'll mostly play 2 of us together with 6 heroes. We might add further handicaps, such as not learn any Elite or PvE skills, not use Necro Heroes or any Heroes at all, just H/H. Getting Legendary Survivor is a given, we'll delete any characters that die in the way, and we are not allowed to farm XP.

I was thinking Ritualist would be a pretty difficult class, as they are squishy and their primary attribute is very weak, giving basically no advantage over other classes.

Suggestions on classes and handicaps please. Either 2 different professions (that hopefully won't synergize well at all), or same profession for me and my brother. OP is hardcore.

Hugh Manatee

Hugh Manatee

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

Nice But Deadly[nice]

N/

Rit with no Secondary skills or pve skills. hardcore. Spawning does almost nothing, it adds about 3 extra effects to any of the spirits that lose health on effect(like wanderlust or shelter) and makes them take 2-3 hits instead of 1-2 from foes(but they can still get 1-shotted by a strong nuke). It also adds like 1-4 seconds on most of the weapon spells. Their runes do boost their skills to certain breakpoints, but they're still just slightly stronger then other classes that use them.

About rangers, they have splinter+barrage nuking, or volley+splinter with BHA to shut out casters. They're vicious, tough, and can run alternative weapons, same as the sin(hammer, daggers, scythe ect) and have excellent defense. Also, it may be slow, but trapping is still very effective. They have their pets too, so a large group of rangers can have a petwall tank for them(the whole concept from one of the earliest 'canned builds', B/P SF and Tombs runs). Rangers are strong when used right, hardly weak at all.

Now if you want a challenge, maybe try beating the whole game with only traps and skills that support trapping....

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
View Post
Monk is now strictly inferior to Ele at being a monk, but most people haven't noticed yet.

Ele and Ranger are both one-trick ponies, Ele at being a monk and Ranger at dazed. Monks are not strictly inferior to Elementalists at being a Monk, they can be superior depending on area.

Dazed is available to all professions via Technobabble, which also happens to 1) not be elite and 2) not lock your primary profession.

@OP - if you want to make (normal) PvE hard, I'd suggest PuGGing all the way ... although it can get extremely frustrating if you do so. You can also try stuff like no PvE skills, no displaying titles, no heroes, etc.

Arad Lightbringer

Arad Lightbringer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2009

Dark Phoenix Risin

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by faraaz
View Post
I'm not going to go into the whole "Pve Analysis without PvE skills" debate because that seems retarded to me, but it possible to come up with a critscythe build that is functional without the use of PvE skills, similar to the Wounding Strike Sin which is used in PvP. Granted it is weak without Critical Agilty...but honestly I cannot fathom why anyone would want to "analyse" a class without it using its most powerful tool.

"Hey guys! Lets play a game of chess...and to make it interesting, you can't use your queen! Or your knights...or your bishops..ISNT THAT FUN?!" Seeing as how the Original Poster came up with the notion of not using PvE skills, I only deemed it fair not to included them. Seeing as how you refuse to debate the effectiveness of the assassin without PvE skills (which further proves my point, by the way) and I really have no argument against the Assassin USING PvE skills, there really isn't a point in discussing any of this, now is there?

Furthermore, if a classes' most 'powerful tool' (in this case, Critical Agility) is a PvE only skill, I see that as a serious flaw to the design of the class.

Kendel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arad Lightbringer
View Post
Furthermore, if a classes' most 'powerful tool' (in this case, Critical Agility) is a PvE only skill, I see that as a serious flaw to the design of the class. Are you new to this game?

Assassins have always been a massively flawed profession.

No IAS.

Shadowsteps, i really don't need to say more in either mode.

Chaining.

Low armour for a frontline.

Exactly what a close range melee character doesn't need to be. In PvE, sitting around for 10-20 seconds and making only a single real attack each fight is a waste of a slot. They buffed the recharges and gave them way of the master. Critical Agility addressed the rest nicely, they got more armour and an IAS, 2 things that would COMPLETELY break PvP. It being a PvE only skill is absolutely meaningless. Critical Agility would've been nerfed so low it'd have to look up to see the old Ether Renewal if it was usable in PvP. Its still playable without it, it just helps alot.

Arad Lightbringer

Arad Lightbringer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2009

Dark Phoenix Risin

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendel
View Post
Are you new to this game?

Assassins have always been a massively flawed profession.

No IAS.

Shadowsteps, i really don't need to say more in either mode.

Chaining.

Low armour for a frontline.

Exactly what a close range melee character doesn't need to be. In PvE, sitting around for 10-20 seconds and making only a single real attack each fight is a waste of a slot. They buffed the recharges and gave them way of the master. Critical Agility addressed the rest nicely, they got more armour and an IAS, 2 things that would COMPLETELY break PvP. It being a PvE only skill is absolutely meaningless. Critical Agility would've been nerfed so low it'd have to look up to see the old Ether Renewal if it was usable in PvP. Its still playable without it, it just helps alot. Let me get this straight, just so I know; I have been arguing the ENTIRE time that the Assassin is the weakest class, yes? I have been called stupid in a myriad of ways for thinking this by several people, yourself included. I said the Assassin was weak because it was squishy and because of its chain attacks, among other things. You argued against me, saying I was wrong and the assassin was great. Now, you just reaffirmed everything I said?

Good game.

Kendel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arad Lightbringer
View Post
Let me get this straight, just so I know; I have been arguing the ENTIRE time that the Assassin is the weakest class, yes? I have been called stupid in a myriad of ways for thinking this by several people, yourself included. I said the Assassin was weak because it was squishy and because of its chain attacks, among other things. You argued against me, saying I was wrong and the assassin was great. Now, you just reaffirmed everything I said?

Good game. Erm... do you know of the difference between PvP and PvE? Some of those were relevant to PvP only. But...

Massive recharge reduction ring any bells? Chains are only a major problem in PvP, in PvE if your going to be encountering blocking stances, you run Golden Fox/Wild Strike. The recharge reduction all round means you can really dish out damage. Don't need Critical Agility to do that, it just makes it stronger, vs foes with a reasonable amount of armour a Sin with a low recharge high +damage chain can out damage a Warrior even without Agility. Most HM foes you need prot no matter what class you're on if your running in first. Having 10-30 more AL doesn't matter much when your enemy is a level 28 Air spiker.

If you want extremely high damage, bring a Sin/Derv. If you want average damage and a little more survivability, bring Warrior. Even without PvE skills a Dagger sin can run Flurry no problem. Unless your running Dragon Slash there is no way you'll recharge your attack skills before the next foe, there goes your DPS.

Arad Lightbringer

Arad Lightbringer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2009

Dark Phoenix Risin

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendel
View Post
Erm... do you know of the difference between PvP and PvE? Some of those were relevant to PvP only. But...

Massive recharge reduction ring any bells? Chains are only a major problem in PvP, in PvE if your going to be encountering blocking stances, you run Golden Fox/Wild Strike. The recharge reduction all round means you can really dish out damage. Don't need Critical Agility to do that, it just makes it stronger, vs foes with a reasonable amount of armour a Sin with a low recharge high +damage chain can out damage a Warrior even without Agility. Most HM foes you need prot no matter what class you're on if your running in first. Having 10-30 more AL doesn't matter much when your enemy is a level 28 Air spiker.

If you want extremely high damage, bring a Sin/Derv. If you want average damage and a little more survivability, bring Warrior. Even without PvE skills a Dagger sin can run Flurry no problem. Unless your running Dragon Slash there is no way you'll recharge your attack skills before the next foe, there goes your DPS.
Obviously I misinterpreted your last post; I apologize- I'm not farmiliar with PvP (hate it with a passion) and therefore only put it in terms of PvE.

Speaking from experience in PvE, many of the chain attacks I personally encounter have a decent probability of rendering an Assassin useless for upwards of 5 seconds when circumstance disables the chain (i.e. blind, knockdown, enchantment removal, etc). Combined with the squishiness of the Assassin's armor, and the powerful spikes that inevitiably go along with Hard Mode, an Assassin can be reduced to pulp whilst still waiting for recharing skills.

Granted, these effects ARE circumstantial, however, when put in perspective with the other melee classes, the Dervish and Warrior, the freedom an Assassin has when playing in PvE is severely limited in comparison (that is to say, if, for example, a Dervish is interrupted, it still has free range to use whatever attack skill it wants. The Assassin cannot do this, due to the need of a lead attack, off-hand, etc). Therefore, despite its high DPS (when its chain DOES work), the Assassin is a weaker class to play in PvE when put against the others.

Kendel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arad Lightbringer
View Post
Obviously I misinterpreted your last post; I apologize- I'm not farmiliar with PvP (hate it with a passion) and therefore only put it in terms of PvE.

Speaking from experience in PvE, many of the chain attacks I personally encounter have a decent probability of rendering an Assassin useless for upwards of 5 seconds when circumstance disables the chain (i.e. blind, knockdown, enchantment removal, etc). Combined with the squishiness of the Assassin's armor, and the powerful spikes that inevitiably go along with Hard Mode, an Assassin can be reduced to pulp whilst still waiting for recharing skills.

Granted, these effects ARE circumstantial, however, when put in perspective with the other melee classes, the Dervish and Warrior, the freedom an Assassin has when playing in PvE is severely limited in comparison (that is to say, if, for example, a Dervish is interrupted, it still has free range to use whatever attack skill it wants. The Assassin cannot do this, due to the need of a lead attack, off-hand, etc). Therefore, despite its high DPS (when its chain DOES work), the Assassin is a weaker class to play in PvE when put against the others. Well yes but running any main combo with a recharge of above 4 seconds is pretty dumb, at least if your in an area you know you may have problems. I'm sure lots of Sins just think "zomg Moebius/Blossom rocks" and take a bar straight off wiki consisting of those 2 and GPS for a quick off-hand and have no regard for anything in the area. Meaning they get blocked or int'd or Moebius doesn't recharge and they get stuck waiting for GPS to recharge. Unsuspecting/Fox are ideal lead choices, Fang/Wild are ideal offhand choices, depending on area, thats 4 seconds, if 1 of those gets int'd sure you lose the damage, much what sort of int are we talking about here? 99% of the time an int on an sins attack skill is Clumsiness. That sort of thing messes up everyone and will almost always, without fail, hit your attack skills and never your auto attacks, no matter what profession you run, just to annoy you.

Assuming you even run Dagger. Scythe is still very powerful even without Crit Agility, Wounding Strike is a spammable deep wound and Mystic/Eremite's have set attack times.

Its not as if Dervs/Warriors don't have specific shutdowns. Ok a Derv without his enchantments can still dish out damage but theres a good chance its still less than a Crit Sin without enchantments. A high critical rate makes up for the lack of 13-16 Scythe, especially on a weapon with such a wide damage range and your rate of return for energy generally makes skills far more spammable. But a warrior without attack skills isn't much better. His attack skills are where he gets his area hits from, sure his critical hit is better than a Dagger crit but its still less likely to occur than the Sins which makes up for some of it.

At any rate theres no way its weaker than the Ritualist... which aside from a select few skills is pretty useless.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post
Monks are not strictly inferior to Elementalists at being a Monk, they can be superior depending on area.
Areas where I'd prefer a monk to a ele are very few and far between.

Quote:
Dazed is available to all professions via Technobabble, which also happens to 1) not be elite and 2) not lock your primary profession. I love my AP+Technobabble, but it's not on the same level as BHA (or CShot for that matter) for serious disruption. BHA (1) works on bosses, which are usually the real threat you bring interruption for anyway, (2) has 100% uptime, and (3) can be fired from beyond aggro range, assuring that the battle opens with your priority target already dazed. Now, if all I was facing was garbage mobs with annoying but relatively weak spells to interrupt, I'd leave the ranger at home and leave it to technobabble; but I'm going to bring a ranger any time I know I'm going to face a caster I actually fear.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

Good points, but:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Now, if all I was facing was garbage mobs with annoying but relatively weak spells to interrupt, I'd leave the ranger at home and leave it to technobabble; but I'm going to bring a ranger any time I know I'm going to face a caster I actually fear. Or you could micro Prot Spirit and tank the caster yourself ...

Ironically Correct

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2009

In my house

A/

Go as a ritualist

Squishy armor
Low damage output (HM)
Long recharge
Not a lot of health
Not many good builds
Spirits die.... FAST (HM, seeing as they are the lowest armor/health)
Have to recast

I read the thread and this seems like the general view on rits.

RadaArashi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

A/

I wonder how the opinion on Ritualist has changed with the recent buff it got. >_>

snaek

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

i'd recommend 8 warrior teams or 8 ranger teams or 8 dervish teams, etc, etc.

not necessarily weak/hard, but its fun and challenging in a different way (except of course if you run 8 necro teams or sumptin...that'd be hella easy)

Charlotte the Harlot

Charlotte the Harlot

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Bay Area

none

R/

ranger is among the best classes with out pve skills with sy and OP damage skills disruption becomes less important and the rangers damage falls behind but with out them they are one of the best. B/P was among the stronger builds before pve skills. I would say mes is the hardest to do with out any pve skills considering almost every mes build I see now completely revolves around them.

Ensign

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
Rit is the weakest class, followed by Derv. Both are strictly inferior to other options for their roles.
I agree with the second part. A Dervish may be inferior in many ways to an Assassin with a scythe, but is still ridiculously strong and probably superior to Mesmer or Ranger as a general purpose character.

Rit is a high floor, low ceiling class, and with all the broken toys in PvE the low ceiling is a killer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
Monk is now strictly inferior to Ele at being a monk, but most people haven't noticed yet. Monks aren't even close to strictly inferior to Eles as Monks. Monks have 3 main jobs - one, to keep people from exploding (Big Prot / Infuse); two, dealing with long term pressure (Small Prot / HoT / Party Heal); three, cleaning (Condition / Hex removal).

Ether Renewal bars are typically unfairly strong at the first job; they're mediocre at the second (Infuse spam, marginal party heals), and pretty awful at the third. As long as Monks play up those other jobs they're still very valuable; they should be tending towards RC, Divert, and similar bars when there's an ER Ele in the group.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
Ele and Ranger are both one-trick ponies Eles do an ok job at abusing generic PvE skills; they aren't quite in the league of Necros at that though. Necromancer:Elementalist::Assassinervish, or something like that.

wiz12268

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

California

Men In Black

I have played every main profession except Necro and Warrior. And out of the ones I have plated assassin seems to be the weakests, followed closely by elementalist.

That is in the strict generic overall concept of the game.

Obviously every prof will have some sort of gimmick builds where they can own a certain map or situation, but in everyday playing situations assassins and eles are the top two.

Surprised to see ritualists so often. Granted I havent played mine too much but the past 3 or 4 days I have, and with a good balance (not the gimmicky builds) they more than hold their own in hardmode.

But my ranger is basically the vanquishing king of all my professions, and REALLY surprised to see so many people name them as a not so good class.

But I think this thread shows one thing ...most people can't think past a build they can't find on the wiki somewhere, so if it isn't there or they can't get it to "work" right then the profession is broken.

But if it isn't sabway, discordway, Rojway, imbagon or whatever other flavor of the month team build then people don't want to hear about it. When in fact there are probably about 50 better team builds out there than these that people just don't or won't share with others.

But IMO from what I have seen in the years I have played this game currently the professions in order of strongest to weakest for "everyday" NORMAL mode PvE, would be...

Ranger
Ritualist
Paragon
Necro(never played one but versatility puts them here)
Monk
Dervish
Mesmer
Warrior (never played one so a guess)
Elementalist
Assassin

But basically it comes down to versatility and what you can and can't do and how many skills they have that go well with other skills and other professions skills. Sure assassins have one major league build that probably 99% of them run, but it is totally reliant on another class to work properly. While an "imbagon" paragon (the other cookie cutter class) can work well with ANY other classes, because they are the one doing the service, not to mention that an "imbagon build" is basically only reliant upon 2 core skills with 2 or 3 more support skills (which can vary a little bit) and so you have 3 free spots to fill in, and even the 3 that are "needed" aren't necessarilly set instone.

Rangers, necros, and monk IMO are the most versatile, with rangers being far and away the superior of those 3 classes. Armor and elemental resists alone make them so. I used to think monks were the top dog, but since playing my ranger,and a few other classes I se how limitted they are these days. They are actually better at solo gimmick builds than overall PvE. Unless you go straight healing or protection, which there are plenty of henchmen that can probably do a better job at than you and most of the live players. So a waste actually.

Ritualists are the anomoly. They are versatile too, but basically some sort of spirit spamming or healing build when it comes right down to it. It just depends on how you use what skills you have. But still no where near the options rangers or necros have. But in normal mode they are far and away right now (even better than rangers) at consistant and fast damage dealing with little to no downtime. Sure necros once they build an army or sit around and regen energy can do damage but ritualists and rangers are non stop, from group to group for the most part with almost zero downtime, especially if rangers are running all ranger skills and have a decent (11-12) expertise rating.

Same with dervishes, they can do a hell of a lot of damage (AOE as well) if you use your enchants and strips in a decent manner. Even if it is putting one on and stripping it off immediately (to give the mobs the debuff), with decent runes, and decent healing they are basically unstoppable even without a shield. And with their semi decent burst damage at the beginning of a fight they can get and hold aggro pretty well on multiple mobs also.

I know this is dragging on, but mesmers deserve alittle love. Almost a forgotten class, but they too aren't too bad, they are good/great at anti caster as well as anti melee, and can in fact do both at the same time. they surely make the shortest work of the caster mobs of any profession that I play. certainly don't woory too much about those Hardmode healers out healing the damage output of some professions and team builds, mesmers basically solo them with 2 or 3 skills. While you can lock your heroes on other targets. That is why I am surprised there hasn't been someone with a mesmer team build, because even tough they are seen as low quality heroes, they make a lot of the epic fights a hell of a lot easier, and against Duncan hardmode they are basically a must have.

Elementalists, simpley way too much time needed to cast, too many mobs with high elemental (regardless of magic) damage diminishing and resists. Elementalist were described as the profession that is supposed to be the highest damage dealer in the game, but right now they aren't in the top 5,(probably 7th) which isn't good in a game with only 10 professions.

This is all based on generic PvE stuff, as in main story lines, random quests, and run of the mill normal mode mobs. Obviously some classes will move up or down in hardmode as well as in other areas of certain campaigns.

But from what I can tell if you want a "challenge" then either elementalist or assassin would be the best option. And elementalist would be top choice because then you wouldn't be so tempted to run a promise build, but with an assassin you won't be getting any heroes all that soon so you'll be relying on henchies alittle longer than an ele maybe, unless you get rushed through and get to kamadan before the "normal" levels of 12 or 13.

YunSooJin

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendel View Post
Erm... do you know of the difference between PvP and PvE? Some of those were relevant to PvP only. But...

Massive recharge reduction ring any bells? Chains are only a major problem in PvP, in PvE if your going to be encountering blocking stances, you run Golden Fox/Wild Strike. The recharge reduction all round means you can really dish out damage. Don't need Critical Agility to do that, it just makes it stronger, vs foes with a reasonable amount of armour a Sin with a low recharge high +damage chain can out damage a Warrior even without Agility. Most HM foes you need prot no matter what class you're on if your running in first. Having 10-30 more AL doesn't matter much when your enemy is a level 28 Air spiker.

If you want extremely high damage, bring a Sin/Derv. If you want average damage and a little more survivability, bring Warrior. Even without PvE skills a Dagger sin can run Flurry no problem. Unless your running Dragon Slash there is no way you'll recharge your attack skills before the next foe, there goes your DPS. Hey look its the winning (losing?) post.

FireWhale

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

W/E

What is this "major league" build of the assassin you are referring to? The build I usually run on my assassin is a golden phoenix MS build, and I don't believe it requires any other class.

As for my opinion, I like to do damage, so most of my choices are based on damage potential. I also base my experiences completely on HM-area foes.

Assassin (squishy but a proper MS build is ridiculous)>Ritualist (spirit spammers are the new flavor of the month. Having just dusted off my rit for Raisu today, I understand why)>Necro (hard to place due to their in-direct damage, but they definitely cause a lot of subtle damage)>warrior=mesmer>monk=ele>derv>ranger>parago n

Of course, this is solely based on my experiences. You don't have to agree with it, but I don't think my opinion is invalid :/

Carnivorous Cupcake

Carnivorous Cupcake

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2009

Lolrus League [lol]

A/E

I would say Ranger or Dervish.


To win PvE you need big damage over anything else and those simply cant deal as much of it as other classes. Not saying they are bad/have weak damage just not as much as other classes.

wiz12268

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

California

Men In Black

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireWhale View Post
What is this "major league" build of the assassin you are referring to? The build I usually run on my assassin is a golden phoenix MS build, and I don't believe it requires any other class.

As for my opinion, I like to do damage, so most of my choices are based on damage potential. I also base my experiences completely on HM-area foes.

Assassin (squishy but a proper MS build is ridiculous)>Ritualist (spirit spammers are the new flavor of the month. Having just dusted off my rit for Raisu today, I understand why)>Necro (hard to place due to their in-direct damage, but they definitely cause a lot of subtle damage)>warrior=mesmer>monk=ele>derv>ranger>parago n

Of course, this is solely based on my experiences. You don't have to agree with it, but I don't think my opinion is invalid :/ Yeah Moebius has some builds I guess, I was speaking more towards anything that surrounds a perma build, which has only 1 or 2 assassin based skills and the rest are hexes of some sort. And of course assassin's promise, but then again technically you don't need to be an asassin to run it I suppose. But it relies heavily on other professions skills as well.

It might all come down to playstyle also. I think rangers and dervishes do more than their fair share of damage, while some people don't think so. All depends I suppose.

It is also a little bit about suvivability, unless you want to eat consumeables all day dying a lot isn't going to make all that damage you do worth anything. Glass cannons can only do so much, either in tems of H/H teams as well as individual builds. Because not many classes with a 60% DP are goign to be all that effective simpley because they aren't going to survie long enough to do anything, and if they are always dying, but doing a ton of damage then it will all eventually catch up with them.

That's why I don't like either Assassins or Elementalists. They simpley die too much, even with gimmick builds, because they put too much pressure on support, which eventually dies as well, and they (even if you try to build up their survivibility) are eventually left alone or have weakned your H/H so much they don't last too long either.

And it also comes down to what classes use their own skills, PvE skills, or other profession skills to be "better". My rit and dervish have all rit and dervish skills, no PvE skills, no other prefession attributes. Don't need them. They have builds that have good synergy. I could obviously use some of the PvE skills or other prefessions skills, but it would probably take away from what I have going on them. My ranger could run all ranger skills, but I like to throw in some PvE skills. He isn't as locked into a specific mold as the otherrs, and my monk, well he has a little bit of everything, 2 or 3 monk skills, a couple mesmer skills and 3 PvE skills. My other classes have old builds I just keep on them because theystill work today, and I don't play them all that much except for Zaishen mmissions and bounties that are relatively quick and easy. But they can still all run the hard modes in most of those cases.

So there really isn't a "best" or "worst" profession, there really can't be. With the right support any profession is supposed to do well. They just ll can't have the same type of support. Maybe that is why we get so many differing opinions in this thing because everyone runs the same H/H on all their toons.

DokkyDok

DokkyDok

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

Interested in finding one.

Mo/

For me its the monk. Having to micro heroes while healing and protting is annoying, and they generally perform better (offensively) if you are attacking too.

Tenebrae

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

Agree with Dokky , got a clan mate that told me exactly the same.

the Puppeteer

the Puppeteer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiz12268 View Post
Ranger
Ritualist
Paragon
Necro(never played one but versatility puts them here)
Monk
Dervish
Mesmer
Warrior (never played one so a guess)
Elementalist
Assassin for NM eh? - the list gave me good laugh

I bolded the key part - most stuff on your list is a guess...

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

At this point, every class has a very strong gimmick that allows them to compete roughly with the other classes.

Monks are unique in that every group needs healing, and thus they're the generic fall back option, but every class is very capable of big damage.

I would say at this juncture that a mesmer's the biggest bitch to contend with because they're horribly weak until you get them leveled, grinded, and kit out with gear.

You can't think about class difficulty from a high-level standpoint, you have to think of it at the lower end. A SY-Dslasher warrior will be pretty easy to manage all the way from lvl1 to his obsidian-clad, super-hero accompanied alter ego, whereas the assassin in the beginning will be extremely weak and won't have nearly the payoff until it has max armor, pve and elite skills unlocked.

This discussion is rather pointless, mainly as each class is fairly powerful in their own regard. Warriors have strong aoe/single damage options with heavy armor, assassins have high damage, paragons have unrivaled party support, rits can go heavy damage or party support, dervishes have all sorts of high-damage gimmicks, rangers have interrupts and some damage options, eles have damage/support/healing/whatevertheywant, necros have infinite energy and broken abilities...it's only mesmers that have it slightly harder, and they get COP, even nerfed it's still good, so I have little sympathy.

makosi

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

I struggle most with Ranger in HM. Even with Prepared Shot and 14 Expertise, I still somehow struggle for energy. I'm too spammy.

Asura Scan, "I Am The Strongest!" and Triple Shot does nice damage but is costly, and Barrage is pretty flimsy... even with Splinter. I'm gonna mess around with some R/D Scythe stuff instead so I can go frontline with Escape and Zealous Sweep for energy.

Dervishes have great damage in HM (if you're doing it properly), however they're a tad squishy and Heart of Fury is a pain to keep casting; Pious Fury stips your Prot Spirit which you need as a 70al. The high prevalence of Enchantment removal in general discourages me from relying on Enchants too much but that's the nature of Dervishes. Kinda catch 22.

Tenebrae

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by makosi View Post
I struggle most with Ranger in HM. Even with Prepared Shot and 14 Expertise, I still somehow struggle for energy. I'm too spammy.
Well thats not Ranger class prob . Ranged classes find it easier to pve , no one is saying that they are the best or the more efficient ones but , hardest ? hell no .

Quote:
Originally Posted by makosi View Post
Asura Scan, "I Am The Strongest!" and Triple Shot does nice damage but is costly, and Barrage is pretty flimsy... even with Splinter. I'm gonna mess around with some R/D Scythe stuff instead so I can go frontline with Escape and Zealous Sweep for energy. Fun builds are for fun , not for efficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makosi View Post
Dervishes have great damage in HM (if you're doing it properly), however they're a tad squishy and Heart of Fury is a pain to keep casting; Pious Fury stips your Prot Spirit which you need as a 70al. The high prevalence of Enchantment removal in general discourages me from relying on Enchants too much but that's the nature of Dervishes. Kinda catch 22. Prevalence of ench ..... really ? i dont think so pal , thats why 600/smit and 55 chars roll on most GW zones but yes , maybe D's have some trouble with HM pve but dont think its an ench removal prob. Heavy ench remov areas are like ..... 5% ? maybe 10% ?

Staying with monk when it comes to pve .... done with ppl , is great , when they have to H/H .... pain.

gerlin

gerlin

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/

Imo, it's monk. Well i it's about using heroes it is. I generally use melee professions to PvE (not farming) so thats my play style. With monks the only option you have besides healing is smiting or AP caller. Healing is just too much of a hassle more me, heroes do it better and faster, and as a smiter i can bring some support too.

All the rest are pretty easy to play with. Ranger, warrior, assassin, elementalist, paragon, ritualist and necromancer are the easier ones while the others might take a while to get the hang of. In HM it changes a lot, I think physical class are easiest but that may be because i prefer using attacks instead of spells (i've never been a fan of magic and stuff, close up smashing is my thing.)

Pocketmancer

Pocketmancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuilan View Post
Really? Warrior over mesmers in hard mode? I would have placed warriors near the bottom for hard mode. Sure warriors may have a couple good AoE and tank builds, but they require someone really good to not wipe the team or to deal more than moderate to lackluster damage. o.O Warriors have pretty insane single target DPS. See the Dragon Slash Warrior.
Warriors have pretty insane AoE KD. See Earth Shaker Warrior.
Warriors have pretty insane AoE damage. See Warrior's Endurance Scythe Warriors.
They're far from the bottom, and they're definitely above Mesmers.

Tank builds were trash and have always been trash. Nobody uses a tank build unless it's a part of a gimmick. This is because there is no real aggro or hate system in Guild Wars and you cannot redirect aggro as easily as you could like in other MMORPG's.

makosi

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenebrae View Post
Well thats not Ranger class prob . Ranged classes find it easier to pve , no one is saying that they are the best or the more efficient ones but , hardest ? hell no .


Fun builds are for fun , not for efficiency.


Prevalence of ench ..... really ? i dont think so pal , thats why 600/smit and 55 chars roll on most GW zones but yes , maybe D's have some trouble with HM pve but dont think its an ench removal prob. Heavy ench remov areas are like ..... 5% ? maybe 10% ?

Staying with monk when it comes to pve .... done with ppl , is great , when they have to H/H .... pain. You quoted and tried to criticize a lot of my stuff but it didn't really add up for me.

Enchantment removal is rife in HM. I had in mind the Destroyers of Thoughts who have Mirror of Disenchantment, Shatter Enchantment and Hex Eater Vortex. Then there's nonsense like Incubus' Soulrending Shriek, Dryders with Corrupt Enchantment, Skelks with Chilblains and Dwarves with Rending Aura. As a frontliner, they're gonna see the Dervish run in and strip him down unless he or she is using Vow of Silence (craptacular).

600/smite works because Spell Breaker keeps the tank's Enchantments protected. The point I was trying to make is that it is frustrating to spend the time and energy casting things like Heart of Fury for it to be removed seconds later. It eats in to your dps. Warriors, on the other hand, don't suffer like that because their profession and primary attribute is not centred around Enchantments.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

I'd like to mention that an offensive spirit spammer has a laughably easy time in PvE.

Make the spirits. Cast their buffs and a hex on enemy. Keep energy up with siphon, move them around every now and then with summon spirits.

And that's all there is to it.