Unsung Heroes

This is about heroes we don't use. Either because they're superfluous or just plain sucky.

I think I'll cut to the chase and mention Anton and Zenmai first. Sin heroes are the worst since the best assassin skills are either for humans only or require more skill to use than the AI could possibly have. So these two suck and I never use them, even though my Anton is sporting that bad-ass Brotherhood outfit.

Second on my list of benchwarmers is Norgu. I just can't get over the fact that he looks like Apu. I love mesmers - Gwen is my second mot used Hero - but Norgu just seems like a fifth wheel, even though I got him before Gwen.

Third is Pyre Fierceshot (or Fierce Pyreshot, whatever it calls itself). Why did Anet think we would ever need more than one ranger at a time, let alone 3? And the third one they give us is an orange cat that's an even bigger douche than Zhed the magical horse? I would've preferred a third Paragon (a Margonite hero!) instead.

Your Turn. What heroes do you never use and why?


Also, I wasn't sure if this should go here or in the Hero/AI Forum, since its not really about their AI. But feel free to change it around.

all dervs and sins and paras + pyre (first ranger hero is barrager, second is BHA)

reason I don't use dervs and sins: they aren't smart enough with selecting targets to get the most out of their skills. Obviously for a derv, they don't run for small clusters of enemies, and sins don't look for a harder to kill enemy to get off a full combo. As for why I don't use paras, it was because it's pve skills that make them so good.

I use Gwen/Norgu about evenly

I look forward to using both rits, I just haven't gotten around to experimenting with them yet

I'd have to agree on the sins...never play them, never use them as henchies or heroes.
next is dervishes...kahmu and mox never get out, melonni only if a mission or quest requires her.
yeah mesmers too..nogru needs to get on a serious diet, but gwen is ok.

goren...again only use him if the mission/quest requires him.(hm...all 3 warriors in general I dont seem to use)

ogden and grunter tahlkora spend almost no time on my perferred list.

Seems the ones I use mostly are: olias, dunkoro, sosuke, gen morghan (or hayda if I get tired of looking at morghan), livia, xandra and razah.

Now rangers are indeed handy...have done some groups with all 3 of them trapping and/or using pets (nothing like having 4 little jahai rats following me around! ).

I never use MOX. He's too large, and since he's melee gets in the way of just about everything I want to see.

I almost never use paragon heroes, or dervishes, or warriors, or elementalists (unless they're necessary for the quest/mission, of course). The henchie counterparts for those work well enough for me. I have been bringing Xandra with a spirit spamming build recently, but that's relatively new. I never take Razah (I only have a few characters that have Razah at all, since I loathe the Realm of Torment so only have three characters that have finished Nightfall).

I have no use for Pyre, but occasionally I will bring him along to flag him alone into a mob... just for my own amusement. I have taken Zenmai along occasionally, but that's pretty rare. I never take Anton.

back when they were first added, heroes useto have mad reflexes with skills (interrupts) until the HA'er baawed about them being too good and they added in activation delay to the ai

In this order

I don't use dervs 'coz imo they suck.
Sins because the chains i cant imagine the AI activating correctly.
Norgu because...Because, i rarely use gwen, but i use her more than norgu.

Infact it would be easiest if i list my most used.
Olias,
Masters,
Livia,
Xandra,
paragon dude that i can't remember.

.

I don't use many of my heros either. They are very useful tho!! As you said about Zhed the Mule...mule is the op word here even if they don't hold much.

Most used are Whispers, olias and livia followed by Vekk and Zhed. Next would be Gwen, Jin and rarely, koss

Most used by tier:

God Mode
Olias
Livia
Master of Whispers

High Tier
Hayda
Gwen
Zhed

Mid Tier
Razah
Xandra
Pyre
Monk Heros

Crap Tier
Norgu
Acolyte Jin
Acolyte Sousuke
General Morgahn
All melee heroes

i dont use any of the warriors, assassins, dervishes or mesmers, elementalists or paragons and rarely use the ritualists and monks.

norgu, ranger heros, morgahn, (although monk support is ok), sousuke sucks ass, anton, zenmai, and hayda.

If i have to bring a ranger i always bring Pyre.. just beacause i love Charrs

Stefan, Devona, and Thom for their pro chain "Charge!" abilities when exploring/vanquishing Tyria.

Melee heroes. They just never get it right.

Anything not a necromancer

For using a lot or least used?

I use Morghan a lot, because I have a bad ass defense build (using half warrior tactics shouts) which is a) great back up to the monks b) frees up my war heroes to do max damage.

I have never used the sins as per the above stated reasons - wary of their ability to chain. I have tried them out as Crit Barragers tho, but they tend to waste too much time on casting enchants than actual damage doing.

I use the dervs frequently enough that I don't dismiss them - they're great against undead when packing Balthazar Form.

I haven't used the Rits much, but now they're un-nerfed, they're getting used more - fast cast spirit spam is a great alternative to an MM.

I've always used my rangers - they're great interrupters, and I like putting pet builds on them too.

Yes, use Gwen more than Norgu coz she's prettier/has more meaning in the meta storyline. Poor Norgu - cast aside for the young nubile.

Goren hardly gets a look in, coz he's my hammer warrior and needs micro-ing.

And poor Ogden doesn't get to see the light of day much, for the pure fact Dunky and Talk were my first monks. I only need him when I want a Smiter.

I like Zhed, he plays an earth/ward build well, even tho his tanking from the front annoys the hell outta me.

They're heroes in my eyes.

The sins get no love.
I actually use Prye a lot. He's by Barrager, while Jin is my interupter. Margrid get sloted with whatever bizarre build I need at the time (winter the the Drought mission, frozen soil, EDA volley, etc etc).
Zhed gets some use if I need a second Searing Flame ele (since only one isn't really worth it).
Ogden never sees the light of day except for when I'm doing Shards of Orr and need a smiter or Assault on the Stronghold and need a bonder.

I only use 3 Necro. Sometimes 2 necro and 1 healer.

I pretty much swap between the same handful of heroes unless I'm required to use someone else for a mission, so it'd be easier for me to list the ones I actually do use...which would be Melonni, Dunkoro, Jin, Olias, and Master of Whispers. The last two swap depending on if I want an MM necro (Olias) or SS necro (MoW), and I've only just started using Jin in the past few days. Gwen sees a fair amount of play on all of my characters but my main (who is doing the games in order and hasn't gotten to EOTN yet).

I've pretty much only used Razah, Livia, and Xandra since EotN came out. The three Rangers see play if I want to do something odd. One, or sometimes both, of the Mesmers get slotted in if I need interrupts/hex removal, but the Rangers are usually enough for interrupting. It's a shame that the AI of nearly all of the physical classes prevents them from being effective at dealing damage. The biggest losers are definitely the Assassins who are essentially useless.

Don't see why why Warriors are looked down upon, my Koss can survive well and dish out a shitload of dmg.

I use roughly the same heroes across all characters with the same builds unless a mission or quest calls for a different one. It just seems more reliable that way and I don't have to constantly switch out weapons.

Most used? 95% of the time I have Razah as a rit MM, Tahlkora as a protection monk, and Vekk as a fire damage ele. The other heroes hardly get used at all, but since unlocking more paragon skills I've been wanting to bring Hayda out as I prefer her to Morgahn (even though her dialogs are pretty annoying rofl).

Agreed on the sin heroes, I've never ever used them. I unlocked them just to say I have all heroes but that's it. I could try to give them my sin/ranger build (Critical Strike + Way of the Master + Keen Arrow + Disrupting Accuracy) but again, they probably wouldn't do that combo any better than a sin one.

Dervs and warriors are hardly ever used, as I don't generally like bringing melee into battle since they tend to over aggro things being up close in a fight. Koss is sword (he gets used the most if I need a tank), Goren hammer, and Jora axe. I love Jora so been thinking of bringing her when I need a tank instead of Koss. Melonni, MOX, and Kahmu have roughly the same builds, but again they're hardly brought out. Mostly there to hold more green items. Although with MOX you can't actually see the weapon he's holding when he's in battle...lol

Some chars I've been too lazy to progress far enough to get a necro hero for an MM, so in their place I use Gwen as a domination interrupter. Norgu never gets out - he's too busy acting and eating. Margrid is also set to interrupt while Jin is a condition ranger (Burning Arrow + Screaming Shot + Apply Poison). Pyre doesn't really have anything as I don't like the Charr - he just holds an extra green weapon I have.

Dunkoro is my healer, Ogden is my smiter. Both hardly get used as I prefer Tahlkora's protection prayers.

Zhed is my air ele, Sousuke my earth, and Vekk my fire. I bring Vekk the most. I don't know why, guess I just started using him when GWEN came out, gave him a build, and was too lazy to change it. But I may revert to Sousuke since I kind of like him the best.

Razah is a rit MM, and I like that combined with spawning power. When I don't use him, I use Master of Whispers as my MM since he has the superior death magic rune. Livia is SS and Olias was blood magic until I got a Bogroot Staff; now he's a restoration necro when I go out using the 3 necro build.

Heros I refuse to use:
1. Zhed. Y'all are insulting mules when you call him one. I did use him for a while, but one day while out and about vanquishing, he decided, all on his own) to run through 2 mobs to attack a third mob that happened to be on the opposite side of the spin map. NEVER AGAIN!
2. MOX - annoying gimmiky contraption. Only have it on one character, all others just ignore it's existence. Meloni serves just fine when I need her along.

Heros I just don't use because I haven't found a good use for 'em:
1.The Ritualists - Nothing against 'em, I'm just not familiar with the profession.
2. The Assassins - For the reasons others have posted. Plus, I keep the "Chasing Zenmai" and "Drunken Master" quest active for helping others vanquish Bukdek Byway.
Norgu Norgu or Gwen? Gwen or Norgu? Hmm... I don't care for actors with beer guts.
Goren The poor guy. He does see use occasionally when I'm partying up with guildies, tho.

Heroes I rarely use:
1. The Rangers I use 'em for specific missions & stuff, but that's it.
2. Master of Whispers I only use him when I'm feeling like using a pure Sabway team.

The rest I use fairly regularly.

All heroes are useful, except maybe the sin ones, so asking if people don't use some because they are "sucky" is pointless.

But anyways, I usually just use Tahlkora, Morgahn, and Olias - with the alternative of sabway and Pyre replacing Morgahn and Razah replacing Olias. Depends on the area.

Morgahn runs a burning build so in areas against non-burnable foes (like destroyers) I bring Pyre. Olias is always MM, so in non-MM'able areas, I bring Razah with spirits and semi-nuking abilities.

Heroes I refuse to use and other people to use:
M.O.X. mainly because of the broken AI called MOX trot.

Heroes I rarely use:
Ritualists: Love them, but without PvE skills they are like half an lightning ele and half a minion master. Two halves does not make a whole.
Paragons: They don't exist anymore, only imbagons are some reason the only accepted kinds.
Rangers: They are strong... I don't know why I dislike ranger heroes and henchies.
Assassins: The huge problem - they attack target and pull off half their chain, I call a target, they stop their finishing dual attack to start auto attacking the new target till the lead attack recharges.
Mesmers: Interrupts are great and all, but it is easier just to kill.
Warriors: I'd take Devona and keep Olias.

I rarely use Zenmai/Anton. I even have them set up as derv & crit ranger...I just never felt the need to use them. I don't use the paras either. They seem really useless imo. Another one I don't use is Goren. His AI just seems so f*cking retarded ._.

Other then them, my other heroes get equal use depending on the area.

Oh yea, I NEVER use MOX, even on new chars. I go straight to nf/eotn to pick up heroes. MOX is just so...big & clunky :I

ogden cuse I just don't like the way he looks
olias, goren, razah and hayda are runed for attributes I don't use very often
kahmu, mox, zenmai are pretty pointless since I rune all the dervs and sins the same plus melonni and anton are cooler

what they need a 4th ele hero ya know so you can one for every element

I use all except the rits. Poor rits. I can't think of a decent build for them. I have my sins set as either crit barrager or crit scythe. I bring them sometimes just for lulz. Hey, they work fine. My most commonly used would be the 3 ranger heros and 3 ele heros. I love my big orange cat.

Melee heroes.

If Koss/Melloni were not required by quests, they would never get party slot outside newbie island.

I never use:

All assassins
All dervishes
All warriors
(=melee)

I rarely use:

Mesmers
Monks
Paragons

I played with 3 Ranger teams, their evasive stances and Splinter Weapon/Barrage or BHA+Volley/Splinter make them better for hard mode than Warrior NPCs, a role that can be done by henchmen warriors very well.

I sometimes use Hayda, but there is mostly just not a place for her if I am playing on my own. You can only pick 3 heroes, after all.

My most usual combo is Necros or Necro/Rangers mix. Ritualists make some sense, especially now with Spirit Spam. Elementalists are useful at times, too. Though they usually suffer from the hard mode phenomenon that Elementalists hardly have armor ignoring damage and HM has higher armor levels.

Pretty close to what the OP and a few others said.

Never use fatty norgu as I rarely need more then 1 memsmer.
Never use Goren/Koss/Jora, unless required as I'd rather throw Devona at someone.
Never use Zenmai or Anton at all due to the craptacular AI for assassin/melee npc's.
Never use Mox/Melonni/Xamu (or whatever his name is) unless required for a mission.

Sometimes I'll use Hoofboy if i need more nukers then just Souske/Vekk.
Sometime I use Pyre if I'm making a team of three trappers/touchers for a specific mission.

I wish we had another ritualist and paragon hero. I Really wish we could just run 7 heroes, so I can customize my team how I want when friends are not online (hate pugs).

I use Pyre whenever I have an excuse to use a ranger. 'Cause charr rock. Oh, UNUSED heroes? Yeah, I never use Goren. Or Margrid. Ever. Leveled them to 20 w/ the giant worms. Never used them again.

I never use the Sins. I have no use for them whatsoever. I sometimes use MOX, and use Melonni when the mission requires her, but I never use the other derv. I never use the rits. Goren is completely useless, as is Norgu (Gwen > Norgu). I never use Margrid except that rare occasion I do the mission that requires her. I never use Jora. I never use Jin.

All the necros, eles, monks, and paragons see a fair amount of use. I use Pyre as my BHA Ranger when Daze helps. Gwen is my smiter. On the RARE occasions I use a warrior, I use Koss (yeah, that's right ).

I never use melee heroes anymore, they're plain idiots and almost never get to the target I want (spam ctrl+space anyone?) untill they've had a few clashes with their own privatetly decided target somewhere far beyond the horizon - and then it's too late!

Fix this please Anet! I like my Jora :-(


My monk, necro and rit uses Ogden and Norgu when those three needs someone to smite them, mainly 'cause I never use them in general pve and can rune them up as I want.

I used Zenmai only ONE time. For Critical Barrage. While it still could spread bleeding AND poison.

I also rarely use Mesmers or Warriors, unless I'm on a Monk-ish character and I don't have MM's for a shield. Or I need a melee character to abuse Strength of Honor.

I pretty much only use my Necromancers. I have little reason to use others. But if I had to use others, such as for Nightfall missions or special missions/bosses/dungeons/etc, I will. However, I do not use:
-Any Ranger. If I were to use a Ranger, it would be to interrupt. However, the AI doesn't discriminate with interrupts, and will interrupt anything, even if it's a pointless skill to interrupt, and will often miss an interrupt on key skills.
-Acolyte Sousuke. Anything he can do, Vekk does it better.
-Any Assassin. No comment.
-Any Ritualist. With the recent update though, this is subject to change.
-Any Paragon. Too bad I'm forced to bring one for Ruins of Morah.
-Kahmu. The best way to play a Dervish normally requires PvE skills.

Justification for other seemingly useless heroes that I use for:
-Warriors: Jora for sword, Koss for Axe, Goren for hammer. I can pick whatever I need for the situation.
-Margrid: required for Poghan Passage and Dasha Vestibule.
-Mesmers: Gwen is FC Channeling, Norgu is Domination.
-Zhed: required for Kodonur Crossroads or Gate of Desolation.
-Vekk: standard nuker.
-MOX: it's always the first level 20 hero I obtain on any of my characters, so I utilize it until I get better heroes.
-Melonni: Arcane Orders hero. Very useful to have.

3 Necros, Tahlkora as a bonder & mission required Heros are the only ones I use anymore. Everything else is just slower & a waste of time. So I'd say pretty much everyone else.

Melee Heroes:
In PvE they charge into the mob, which will trigger a catastrophic series of events.

(1) Their targets start kiting all over and before you know it, another group will be aggroed.
(2) Melee heroes tend to attack the enemy back line (even on defensive!), so in an effort to heal the hero your own monks will move ahead too far and before you know it your mob and the enemy mob is one chaotic snowball of AoE doom.
(3) Their flags might be good for PvP area defense around a pre-defined spots, but they are useless for the "frontlines" of PvE. One of the most used radar scribbles in PvE is the line people are not supposed to pass, there is no such feature for Heroes. They do not have a single line of code geared towards PvE tactics or decision making.

Best way to fix a melee hero if the mission requires his presence: Longbows, because that makes them stay back like nothing else.

Some things I wished the Hero monks would "learn":
- not walking forward into the enemy melee mob in an effort to save the guy that didn't know when to stop charging.
- kiting in PvE will not prevent damage, only prevent you from healing.
- kiting AoE is the only EXCEPTION to that rule, not vice versa.
- Thou shalt not rez behind enemy lines

I have tried using Anton many times because he's the most handsome out of all heroes. Although I haven't found a use to him. Zenmai on the other hand, was never worth unlocking. Dervs aren't used much, since Warriors are better as a frontline. Sometimes they can do well as Orders. Although I never use 3 warriors at one time, which makes Koss my most used Warrior hero and Goren least.

Now Rits have had a buff which made them useful for builds other than Splinter Weapon, I use Xandra a lot and Razah when I play a character who's got it unlocked.

In more simple areas I use Koss, Olias/Acolyte Sousuke and Tahlkora/Dunkoro. I really dislike this fat dwarf, which makes him least used out of all monk heroes.
And the 3 necros for when it's really needed.