It's Nerf or Nothin'! - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

03 Jul 2009 at 15:20 - 1

Sorry, just had to have that as my title.

In all seriousness, I'm sure everyone has noticed the nerfs ANet does, and some people say certain skills need nerfed or buffed.

My question is, with the game slowly dying and no information on Guild Wars 2, why does ANet nerf things people enjoy doing? Example: keg farming. It was a good means of income, which is pretty much needed with the XTH broken now, and it got nerfed. That was something that people actually enjoyed doing since there was nothing else for them to do after beating all campaigns multiple times. You can only do that so much before you fall asleep in the process.

I know there are other nerfs, like apparantly the Tombs used to be great for trapper rangers but that got nerfed so now it's all perma sins. Why does ANet insist on nerfing things that people enjoy?

It seems to me things that people enjoy doing should be left as is, as it gives them something to do while waiting for GW2. Which, while we're on that subject, here's another question - is this ANet or 3D Realms? We've had no information on GW2, just like no information on Duke Nukem Forever. I hope GW2 doesn't take "forever" to come out.

But anyway, this is NOT a QQ thread, it's simply an inquiry. Why do you think things that people enjoy doing the most are what gets nerfed, and how do you feel about it? And if you think it's because the game is too easy without nerfs, then go play a different game and don't ruin it for the ones of us that enjoy it as is.

Deathly_Overlord

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

A house :)

LaZy!

Mo/

03 Jul 2009 at 15:32 - 2

Anet nerfs things to try and make people come up with new builds, so that things dont become overfarmed ( I think), although this doesnt explain why they have left Shadow Form un-nerfed for a long time now.

I think they leave some things because they think that they are clever or creative, most of the farming builds that get nerfed rely upon skills being exploited because they are terribly over powered, or have no Aoe scatter *cough* RoJ * cough*.

lord of all tyria

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

03 Jul 2009 at 15:44 - 3

They nerf things to improve game balance. Sure, they very often get it wrong, but still.

Banane-O-Man

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

A/

03 Jul 2009 at 15:45 - 4

Yo can still farm the vaettirs in HM, takes 4m per run with terra tank.

And if you keep exploiting a cookie cutter skill, it sure will be nerfed.

dunky_g

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

[SNOW]

03 Jul 2009 at 15:45 - 5

because it keeps the game fresh. Well trys to...

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

03 Jul 2009 at 15:53 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banane-O-Man

Yo can still farm the vaettirs in HM, takes 4m per run with terra tank.

And if you keep exploiting a cookie cutter skill, it sure will be nerfed.

Ah, yeah I bet you could still do the keg farm, it'll just take a little longer since Budger now doesn't hand you a keg instantly. I haven't tried it yet but I've been thinking of doing it to get some victory tokens and see how it goes.

I really wish they'd stop nerfing things that get exploited though. hehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunky_g

because it keeps the game fresh. Well trys to...

Ah, well they may be trying to keep the game fresh, but personally I find that it has the opposite effect. If someone's favorite build gets nerfed, they're more likely to leave for at least a while instead of trying out new builds. That's what's happened in my experience anyway. So ANet would be losing business by nerfing people's favorite builds. Maybe they should just leave them as is so people can get some enjoyment out of the game that's dying.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

03 Jul 2009 at 16:19 - 7

There's two things Anet nerfs at this point:

1) GvG.

2) Farming.

They've developed a protectionist policy towards the economy, so we are seeing #2 be exercised more often.

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

03 Jul 2009 at 16:24 - 8

i always thought because stuff like keg farming is not how they wanted game to be played/farmed. but i'm probably wrong since invincible sins clearing elite areas in 20 minutes is clearly how they want the game to be played and that's not much different.

Raudic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

03 Jul 2009 at 16:35 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathly_Overlord

Anet nerfs things to try and make people come up with new builds, so that things dont become overfarmed ( I think), although this doesnt explain why they have left Shadow Form un-nerfed for a long time now.

I think they leave some things because they think that they are clever or creative, most of the farming builds that get nerfed rely upon skills being exploited because they are terribly over powered, or have no Aoe scatter *cough* RoJ * cough*.

nah, i think they shouldve nerfed RoJ to make it weaker, but not to the point of it totally losing its purpose. I like what they did with SF, making it harder to maintain, but still doable.

what i think however is that nerfing the hell out of drop rates is ridiculous. i was so mad when i finally made a 55 and after a day or two of having it, troll farming was nerfed

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

03 Jul 2009 at 16:44 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

There's two things Anet nerfs at this point:

1) GvG.

2) Farming.

They've developed a protectionist policy towards the economy, so we are seeing #2 be exercised more often.

Lol? They don't seem to give a **** about people clearing UW in 15 minutes. Or running EotN dungeons for 20k-30k a head.

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

03 Jul 2009 at 16:53 - 11

There are three things you can't escape from: death, taxes, and nerfs. People have already learned to accept death and taxes, and I think it's about time to accept nerfs as well.

Ariena Najea

Silence and Motion

Join Date: Jul 2006

Buffalo NY

New Horizon [NH]

03 Jul 2009 at 16:54 - 12

When a particular skill or build becomes game breaking, and ANet determines it needs to be fixed, there are three possible options:

A) Nerf the problem-causing skill or build
B) Buff a counter skill or build
C) Buff alternative skills or builds

Now, A is their method of choice, and for good reason. By simply taking a few skills out of play, or giving them a small nerf, people find other things to run in the same niche, or come up with something new. For B or C, things quickly get out of hand as a dozen problems appear to replace the lone problem being fixed. This is because they do not have the staff needed to spend enough time on skill balancing to prevent this from happening.

The new Live Team Krewe will hopefully be able to address some of these issues, since there will simply be more people working on the project. This will make options B and C more possible, and hopefully breath some life into many dead skills from nerfs, as well as skills that were never really worth using.

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

03 Jul 2009 at 16:56 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Lol? They don't seem to give a **** about people clearing UW in 15 minutes. Or running EotN dungeons for 20k-30k a head.

That's bad?
When a game has been released for 4 years, obviously the same area won't be challenging.
Like how people use cheap techniques to speed run Super Mario World, we use shadowform as the key to our speed runs. And it's better than Obbi too!

Maybe you don't understand my logic, but I kind of enjoy UWSC for the adrenaline of it (I'm still poor as hell), and I like eotn dungeon runs because it easily allows me to fill up my book and get my title.

Everyone wins but stupid moralefags who think it is so bad <_<

edit: They should still try and buff traps to make uwsc more challenging while still not impossible.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

03 Jul 2009 at 17:17 - 14

Good lord, it's like every time ANet nerfs one of the top two or three ways of making cash, everyone cries out, "OH GOD NO, HOW CAN I POSSIBLY MAKE MONEY NOW WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE QQQQQQQQQQQQ."

I think the general GW population enjoys a number of things that have needed killing for a long time. If ANet takes steps in that direction, I'll expect people to cry foul, but those actions will shine like brilliant stars against the sea of letdowns they have recently given us.

Xsiriss

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

03 Jul 2009 at 17:38 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

That's bad?
When a game has been released for 4 years, obviously the same area won't be challenging.
Like how people use cheap techniques to speed run Super Mario World, we use shadowform as the key to our speed runs. And it's better than Obbi too!

Maybe you don't understand my logic, but I kind of enjoy UWSC for the adrenaline of it (I'm still poor as hell), and I like eotn dungeon runs because it easily allows me to fill up my book and get my title.

Everyone wins but stupid moralefags who think it is so bad <_<

edit: They should still try and buff traps to make uwsc more challenging while still not impossible.

My favourite person for the day. Money for the masses=overall happier community, screw the elitist pricks.

And actually nowdays money is hard to make outside dungeons and UWSC, due to HM being kapwned...I miss the days of first HM when I got about 20leet tomes and sold them for 20k each, and how everything spewed forth golds. Good times, good times.

IronSheik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Wolfenstein: Goldrush

Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom]

N/

03 Jul 2009 at 17:39 - 16

If GWs is dying so much, stop playing it.

For one, everyone knew budger bombing was imba, and nerfing it now requires you to pay attention to a bit more than 123, and takes ~2-3 minutes longer.

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

03 Jul 2009 at 17:54 - 17

kegs werent meant to be used that way

MMSDome

Raged Out

Join Date: Sep 2005

03 Jul 2009 at 17:57 - 18

@OP

Are you really that ignorant? If they never nerfed anything the game would be incredibly boring. For instance, if they never nerfed Griffons people would still be farming griffons FOR 3 OR 4 YEARS.

Nerfing ensures the community needs to somewhat apply it self and create new builds to adapt. Thank God they nerf things otherwise we would be playing the same game as it was 4 years ago.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

03 Jul 2009 at 18:08 - 19

I think the more curious issue is that people actually bother to make money in this game.

Apparently, a lot of people spend 8+ hours a day doing a monotonous activity for money ... and then come home and spend another 3~4 hours a day doing a monotonous activity for ... not money. Perhaps I'm odd, but I fail to see the appeal.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

03 Jul 2009 at 18:09 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

My question is, with the game slowly dying and no information on Guild Wars 2, why does ANet nerf things people enjoy doing? Example: keg farming.

Because it's abusive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

It was a good means of income, which is pretty much needed with the XTH broken now, and it got nerfed.

The balance team does not exist to give you a stream of income.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

But anyway, this is NOT a QQ thread, it's simply an inquiry.

Stop crying.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

03 Jul 2009 at 18:15 - 21

You're asking yourself the wrong question.
The question isn't why nerf everything we like.
The question should be why do we like things that shouldn't even be in the game. And the only problem with A.Net trashing things is that they fail at not being random.

Having said that:

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

03 Jul 2009 at 18:21 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

My question is, with the game slowly dying and no information on Guild Wars 2, why does ANet nerf things people enjoy doing?

Food for thought: they're preparing us for GW2 by slowly fixing GW1, and more precisely removing the broken, overpowered game features...

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

03 Jul 2009 at 18:28 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

@OP

Are you really that ignorant? If they never nerfed anything the game would be incredibly boring. For instance, if they never nerfed Griffons people would still be farming griffons FOR 3 OR 4 YEARS.

Nerfing ensures the community needs to somewhat apply it self and create new builds to adapt. Thank God they nerf things otherwise we would be playing the same game as it was 4 years ago.

No, I'm not ignorant. In all honesty I've never given a crap about builds and what skills got nerfed or buffed. I just recently got into keg farming and they nerfed it so I was wondering, why did they do it? I mean, look at Sifhalla during an event - it's obvious lots of other people did it as well. I'm not the only one upset by it. Sure you can still keg farm, it'll just take a little longer. That's not a big deal. But it's like, why nerf it at all? During Easter, I'll have you know that I kept and used all the eggs and bunnies that dropped instead of selling them. By income from keg farming I'm talking about the golds I ID and merch. I don't farm things by keg farming to sell them to other people; I use them for myself.

If they keep nerfing various things and people's favorite builds, there won't be anything left to nerf anyway and then it will get boring as you said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronShiek

If GWs is dying so much, stop playing it.

For one, everyone knew budger bombing was imba, and nerfing it now requires you to pay attention to a bit more than 123, and takes ~2-3 minutes longer.

Hey, it's not my fault it's dying. It's a simple fact. And I'm not saying keg farming isn't still doable, it just makes me wonder why it was nerfed in the first place since so many people did it. If that's not how the game was meant to be played, why did they put Budger in then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

Because it's abusive.

The balance team does not exist to give you a stream of income.

Stop crying.

Learn to read. I clearly stated this isn't a QQ thread. If it was, I'd have said "wtf ANet stop nerfing everything people actually enjoy doing! Work on GW2 instead of screwing up this already dead game!" And obviously that's not what I said. And I didn't say the keg farming did exist for a stream of income. It's something people can do do pass the time with nothing else to do in a game with no new content and no information on its sequel. So before you make smart ass and false remarks, learn to read. kthx

freakdaddy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ohio, USA

Tales of Heroes[myth]

A/Me

03 Jul 2009 at 18:29 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathly_Overlord

although this doesnt explain why they have left Shadow Form un-nerfed for a long time now.

are you serious?

if i didnt have over $120 RL money invested in this game (when i was interested) i would not be still playing. Anet has totally ruined any fun that i/we have had and continues to do so with stupid nerfs.

nerfing should only be done if there is an absolute flaw and people will say that SF is a flaw in the game, but it is not. it takes an inferior class like the assassin and makes it viable for something.

MMSDome

Raged Out

Join Date: Sep 2005

03 Jul 2009 at 18:38 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakdaddy

are you serious?

if i didnt have over $120 RL money invested in this game (when i was interested) i would not be still playing. Anet has totally ruined any fun that i/we have had and continues to do so with stupid nerfs.

nerfing should only be done if there is an absolute flaw and people will say that SF is a flaw in the game, but it is not. it takes an inferior class like the assassin and makes it viable for something.

So you are playing a game you don't enjoy?

Makes sense.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

03 Jul 2009 at 18:39 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

Learn to read. I clearly stated this isn't a QQ thread.

Saying something and putting your hands over your ears doesn't make something true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

Work on GW2 instead of screwing up this already dead game!"

I don't think removing keg farming was a screwup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

It's something people can do do pass the time with nothing else to do in a game with no new content and no information on its sequel.

I'm certain that hundreds of thousands of other players aren't complaining about lack of content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

So before you make smart ass and false remarks, learn to read. kthx

Defensive much?

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

03 Jul 2009 at 18:50 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakdaddy

Anet has totally ruined any fun that i/we have had and continues to do so with stupid nerfs.

You see its a two way street. The nerfs may ruin your fun, but certain things existence has ruined the fun of others.

Quote:

The question should be why do we like things that shouldn't even be in the game.

This is the question, and the answer is that too many people cannot tell what should be the fundamental differences between a single player and a multiplayer game.

Unfortunately apparently Anet also fall into this group. They have left too much in place for too long and any changes now are just not going to have as strong of an effect as it should have had years ago when they should have been made.

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

03 Jul 2009 at 19:01 - 28

dunky_g

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

[SNOW]

03 Jul 2009 at 19:05 - 29

there is more than one farming build. and pleanty that work fine. so instead of QQing on a forum, use your time productively, like learn another farm.

or quit.

Helix Dreadlock

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2009

Imperial Sanctum

Legendary Drunken Masters [DUI]

E/Me

03 Jul 2009 at 19:14 - 30

Because Arenanet likes to make angry faces

>: (

Nodakim

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

Hrvatska

N/Me

03 Jul 2009 at 19:15 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Lol? They don't seem to give a **** about people clearing UW in 15 minutes. Or running EotN dungeons for 20k-30k a head.

15 you say?
I pay yours and raise it for a 10 minute UWSC run!

Armed Silon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2009

UK

A/

03 Jul 2009 at 19:17 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I think the more curious issue is that people actually bother to make money in this game.

Apparently, a lot of people spend 8+ hours a day doing a monotonous activity for money ... and then come home and spend another 3~4 hours a day doing a monotonous activity for ... not money. Perhaps I'm odd, but I fail to see the appeal.

Im sorry this guy has it the nail right on the head for me. Playing GW is still fun for me I have 1 GWAMM and im 8 titles from my 2nd and I am also working on LdoA (afk ftw). Dont get me wrong I kegged for like 1 event (sin is 3 months old) and man was it easy, but I didnt keg for money I was working on my Widsom title and ended up giving all of my sweets to the two people that have helped me the most in this great game.

I think people should try to remember that it is only a game and games are made to be fun, not monotonus
GG Burst

refer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2009

US

03 Jul 2009 at 20:11 - 33

They want to encourage teamwork for skills to be successful, but what they don't realize is that in random places skills which require teamwork are never run since you can't count on teamwork.

Keg farming... well farming isn't' liked period. Guild Wars is an online game where you can solo in hard mode. What about that sounds right? I don't care if it is possible... hard mode is supposed to be hard, and it's not if one person can do it alone. I don't think Anet likes these things happening so they try to change them. But back to keg farming... how much money does everybody need lol. Where does it all go? Do people randomly buy elite armors and other things just because they can, not because they want it?

SF is untouched because one person in house flips out and scares the staff when they brought it up in the past so now they don't talk about it at all to not trigger him.

EinherjarMx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Mexico

La Legion del Dragon [LD]

E/

03 Jul 2009 at 20:28 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakdaddy

*snippy*
nerfing should only be done if there is an absolute flaw and people will say that SF is a flaw in the game, but it is not. it takes an inferior class like the assassin and makes it viable for something.

yeah, as if people were giving out their easy income build.

The people who takes advantage of a flawed mechanic like SF is most likely to never complain about it, because is their source of income.

Verene

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2009

[SOTA]

D/

03 Jul 2009 at 21:03 - 35

I think there's a huge difference between nerfing keg farming and Shadow Form.

Keg farming simply was taking advantage of something not the way it was meant to be used and required zero thought whatsoever to do. Pick up keg, drop, repeat.

Shadow Form, like 55ing, is easy, yes, but it still requires at least some thought and effort to keep up properly. There are counters to it. One slip up means you're toast and since it's primarily used to solo things, you don't have anyone else to save you if you do make a mistake while using it.

(Shadow Form is also boring as hell. Having tried that, I wonder how people can stand doing that for extended periods of time)

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

03 Jul 2009 at 22:38 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armed Silon

Im sorry this guy has it the nail right on the head for me. Playing GW is still fun for me I have 1 GWAMM and im 8 titles from my 2nd and I am also working on LdoA (afk ftw). Dont get me wrong I kegged for like 1 event (sin is 3 months old) and man was it easy, but I didnt keg for money I was working on my Widsom title and ended up giving all of my sweets to the two people that have helped me the most in this great game.

Yeah, that's what I did with keg farms. I did it for my wisdom title and sweet tooth titles. I didn't sell a thing I got, so it wasn't to make profit per se. Glad to see someone else used the keg farm for themselves instead of selling the stuff.

I don't base this game off its money and money making methods. I play it for the fun of it.

tehlemming: I'm not even going to respond to you anymore as you obviously have the brains and mentality of a 12 year old and you're quoting everything I say, taking it out of context to get a +1 post count and attention and trying to make your epeen look bigger than it is.

Faer

La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

Join Date: Feb 2006

03 Jul 2009 at 22:56 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

We've had no information on GW2, just like no information on Duke Nukem Forever.

I guess you missed the DNF screenshots and game info that they have been releasing for years...

Check your facts, bro.

Angelica

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Aussie land

Me/E

03 Jul 2009 at 23:06 - 38

I think ArenaNet likes assassins very much! :P

I liked all what they nerfed because it gave me the opportunity to go in places that I was never able to go before, yes I'm not a leet player.
I don't farm but it was fun to do DoA with ursan.

Now I'm really bored and thinking that's time for me to find a better and fun game beside GW. Sad but true.

Good on you Anet!

/Angelica

Mad Lord of Milk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2009

Dishonorable Hall of Fame

R/W

03 Jul 2009 at 23:41 - 39

I say ANet don't nerf anything for a year and see if things get better or worse without your constant interference.

[({Genius})]

Buster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Elona

Clan Eternal Legion

D/W

04 Jul 2009 at 00:31 - 40

Because maybe they feel that Guild Wars was never made to be farming for items in the first place. I don't know really I'm just throwing it out there. Maybe some are bored and feel they need to nerf things to liven it up. Maybe just maybe Guild Wars was an experimental corpg that will become one of them most successful mmos ever. Your guess is as good as mine.