Why doesn't "Save Yourselves" reset Aggresive Refrain?

Quote: Originally Posted by wiz12268

...But I don't see why Soldiers Fury couldn't replace both of those actualy.... Enough is enough. You're clrealy a noob/newbie. I'm not going to response to your posts anymore. I just had something that I wanted to say; It's freaking ENERGY not power.

Buy yourself a second headpiece with +1 leadership and put on a superior leadership rune on it. As soon as you zone, equip it, cast Aggressive Refrain, put on your regular headset. You'll now have a 25 second Aggressive Refrain assuming either the 12/11/6 or 11/11/8 split. Whenever "There's Nothing To Fear!" recharges you'll now have a 5 second window to reuse it without letting Aggressive Refrain drop.

As far as your energy is concerned, use multiple sets. Radiant runes on a Paragon is a horrible idea as their primary attribute provides an immense amount of energy. I will begin every zone by swapping to a staff and using Aggressive Refrain, "There's Nothing To Fear!" and Focused Anger before swapping back to my spear/shield set and just rebuilding my energy with "Save Yourselves!". I won't even bother using my attack skills until I have a decent amount of energy back. Another important thing to note is to watch the recharge of "There's Nothing To Fear!" to make sure you have enough energy to use it when it's back. Even if you don't that is why you have the other weapon sets to borrow energy from so you can maintain Aggressive Refrain at all times.

I'm also going to assume that you're not using "There's Nothing To Fear!" outside of combat which would also explain why you think the 25 energy is a problem for Aggressive Refrain. It is a one time use for an entire zone, if it is dropping then you need to pay more attention. If you can't hit "There's Nothing To Fear!" on recharge you need to pay more attention to your energy and ensure you receive the full energy return each time you use "Save Yourselves!".

The build has its flaws but they're always zone specific because of the skills you'll encounter on the enemy, not the skills on your own bar.

Quote: Originally Posted by king_trouble

Spear of Fury
Anthem of Flame or Anthem of Weakness (depends on zones and what creatures's I'm up agains.)
"Save Yourselves"
"There is Nothing to Fear"
"For Greater Justice"
"Focus Anger"
Agressive Refrain This.

8th skill is pretty optional. i like to take the new updated 'go for the eyes' since it no longer has recharge and increases crit chance by like 75%, lol. leadership must be high for energy upkeep, minimum 12, i like to run 14. If u can't run this, don't bother playing imbagon, it's easy as hell, lol

If you were to play an imbagon also I would suggest looking at the paragon team consisting of hayday, morgahn and a derv nec, that should prevent you form lacking shouts or such.

Btw I don't run into any problem with energy with 10 or 11 leadership

Pumpkin Pies > Aggressive Refrain :-D :-D

(I hoarded enough pies, that my Paragon will never need to use Aggressive Refain again).

Urgh, i always favour Soldiers Fury to Aggressive Refrain/Focused Anger. I just don't like the Refrain in PvE. Partially because it screws with condition removal on the AI bars.

But this guy is so dumb its almost embarressing to be associated with it.

we're all aware that wiz is a troll. they responded so other noobs won't take him seriously.

incidentally, SY does refresh aggressive.

racthoh, what are your thoughts about the 13 AL req 7 shield available for trade? it's inscribable, but i think the health is +20 or some not so optimized number.

Quote: Originally Posted by squiros

racthoh, what are your thoughts about the 13 AL req 7 shield available for trade? it's inscribable, but i think the health is +20 or some not so optimized number. Trade? You can craft those in Blacktide Den for 150g and 6 iron.

Quote: Originally Posted by squiros

incidentally, SY does refresh aggressive. Pics or it didn't happen :P

Quote: Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

Enough is enough. You're clrealy a noob/newbie. I'm not going to response to your posts anymore. I just had something that I wanted to say; It's freaking ENERGY not power. energy/power semnatics.

Soldiers fury alone is only slightly less effectic as refrain and focused togther. I think soldiers give 7 energy (just for you) every 5 seconds(if it rounds up), and refrain and focused combined give 9 (if it rounds) up every 5 seconds.

And you keep soldiers up the same way you keep refrain up....spamming anthem of flame or weakness along with the other shouts/chants you ordinarilly use, that way you are always under the effect of a chant at least during the fight, it it wears off in between it is no big deal it is a 5 energy (again just for you) skill, as compared to the 25 for refrain alone.

Like I said way back when I never used refrain before so when i saw the "imbagon" build I assumed it was the third shout (in conjunction with) TNtF and FGJ that you needed to keep refrain up. I didn't know that refrain require it to effect YOU just any shout you used would trigger it to reset. So the original question has been asked and answered. But IMO aggressive refrain and focused anger is probably not as effective as soldier's fury, which was the build I used to run before. But again as I said, I used the same core skills as the listed imbagon bar, which for all intents and purposes really are only save yourselves and TNtF, anything else added that helps maintain those 2 skills is basically what makes it an imbalanced or imbagon build (as someone defined it.) because the damage reduction from those two skills alone is what makes it imbalanced, all the other stuff is just filler.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aeon221

What you should really be asking yourself is why you ended up with a different answer than the rest of the community. Is it because you're some kind of Guild Wars Whisperer, or is it because you're inexperienced and ignorant and can't tell good from bad? ooh! ooh! I know! I know!


Anywho, to disabuse the OP of his mistake, you can keep AR going with TNtF alone. Just start each zone with a helm swap as described in Racthoh's post, keep a staff set on swap in case you've screwed up your energy when TNtF rolls around, and cast TNtF on recharge until you zone again. Also, FtW! can help refresh AR during fights without spending a skillslot on an otherwise dubious skill choice.

axel - go to isle of the nameless to test it for yourself. actually, if SY! doesn't refresh refrain, you're doing it wrong too.

hissy - it's a trade:
. the act or process of buying, selling, or exchanging commodities, at either wholesale or retail, within a country or between countries: domestic trade; foreign trade.
you'll notice the gold and iron being traded for a shield.

little wonder everyone is taking wiz seriously . . .

Save Yourselves - All other party members gain 100 armor.

Aggressive refrain - You attack 25% faster. Renewal: whenever a chant or shout ends on you. You have Cracked Armor (20 seconds).

Reading comprehension FTW

sigh.
have your favorite hero cast aggressive refrain. cast SY. you'll notice when SY ends on your hero, his refrain is refreshed. obviously SY doesn't affect self, i didn't imply as such nor was that the thread question. there was already a post informing who it affects. speaking of reading comprehension, too much gw and not enough passing college ftl.

Idly, if you really don't like AR, Drunken Master is another option. It has its downsides (have to either use alcohol or have a lower attack speed increase, costs a PvE skill slot), but it gives some of the benefits without the hassles involved with AR.

I've tried Soldier's Fury myself, and it just doesn't seem to match the adrenaline gain of even the DM/FA/FGJ combination. Soldier's Fury also requires finding some suitable long-lasting shout to keep it operative - although since the buff, Can't Touch This qualifies.

As for energy... with an orders necro or dervish in the party, you can be gaining 4 strikes of adrenaline per hit (Dark Fury adds one, then whichever of Focussed Anger and For Great Justice you have up at the time doubles it), which means you're firing off SY! every couple of seconds for the 6-7 energy you get out of Leadership. And if you're not getting SY! off at least once every six seconds, you're not doing your job.

Which is... not unlimited energy, but it's certainly enough that many people do prefer to fill the rest of the bar with energy-based skills (usually spear attacks) so as not to interrupt the flow of adrenaline (the adrenaline-multiplying effects mean that the 1 strike of adrenaline you lose for using another adrenal skill effectively multiplies to 4 and a noticeable difference in your rate of firing off SY!).

Quote: Originally Posted by squiros hissy - it's a trade:
. the act or process of buying, selling, or exchanging commodities, at either wholesale or retail, within a country or between countries: domestic trade; foreign trade.
you'll notice the gold and iron being traded for a shield. In the context of GW, "trade" normally means a transaction between players. Not the dictionary definition.

Quote: Originally Posted by squiros

The OP was about why AR on YOURSELF did not refresh.

Obviously it will refresh on a hero.

So again, reading comprehension FTW

Yes, the third or fourth guy to respond answered why, I didn't read the details of AR closely enough. Everything else in here has just been a rehash of why the AR/FA bar may or may not be as good as Soldiers fury, and who likes what better.

All I know is without a third chant keeping AR up was impossible, despite what people claim. Although I didn't switch hood or weapons to get more energy (because switching back you start in the negative and take that much longer to get back to a suitable amount of energy anyway) so at best a short term solution.

I will stick with Soldiers Fury, it works for me and I get another spot to throw a PvE skill in there.

Soldiers Fury = 5 en per cast throughout the entire zone

AR = 25 en for first cast and an extra 5 en for a shout like Anthem of Flame which is refunded by leadership

Quote: Originally Posted by wiz12268

All I know is without a third chant keeping AR up was impossible, despite what people claim. Although I didn't switch hood or weapons to get more energy (because switching back you start in the negative and take that much longer to get back to a suitable amount of energy anyway) so at best a short term solution.
What's your leadership level? I know that at 12 and above, its perfectly possible to only use TNtF to refresh the refain, as I've done it many times before. The easiest way is: cast AR (with a 16 leadership helmet, then swap back to your spear helmet) and use FGJ. When FGJ ends, use TNtf (you'll have regained enough energy). You can keep the cycle up of using TNtF on recharge to refresh the refrain as long as you need until you encounter enemies, at which point you can use of of the adrenaline boosters.