Aion and GW, NCSoft and Anet? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

thebible

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Aug 2005

Thundercatz

W/Mo

17 Jul 2009 at 23:27 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL

Biggest difference between Aion and GW is that Aion installs a rootkit on your PC called GameGuard. If you thought Starforce was bad, wait till you see it.

I cancelled my Pre-Order after GameGuard crashed my invoicing software on my company's PCs today. Major "Oh Crap" moment there.

gameguard is pretty essential if you want the least amount of possible botting/hacking.

AOD_EaSyKiLL

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Angels of Death

Mo/

17 Jul 2009 at 23:35 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebible

gameguard is pretty essential if you want the least amount of possible botting/hacking.

And it fails at both.

Guild Wars might have a lot of bots, but it doesn't have any hacks, unlike any other game which has ever used GG, which have tons of hacks, dupes and Bots

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

17 Jul 2009 at 23:51 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL

And it fails at both.

Guild Wars might have a lot of bots, but it doesn't have any hacks, unlike any other game which has ever used GG, which have tons of hacks, dupes and Bots

It has had hacks,bots and dupes don't try to kid yourself that is far better than other games.I am playing one right now that has none of this.Anet could learn a thing or two from them.

Gigashadow

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Bellevue, WA

W/

18 Jul 2009 at 00:05 - 44

Aion is quite hack and bot infested actually. One of the hacks allows you to rapidly use a whole bunch of skills at once. This shows a very poor security model of trusting the client, something that GW doesn't do.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cf...=241937&bhcp=1

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/ques...noob-hack.html

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/gene...on-hacked.html

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/gene...se-server.html

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/gene...on-elliot.html

AOD_EaSyKiLL

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Angels of Death

Mo/

18 Jul 2009 at 00:16 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

It has had hacks,bots and dupes don't try to kid yourself that is far better than other games.I am playing one right now that has none of this.Anet could learn a thing or two from them.

Ha.

Aside from bots, Guild Wars has had the least amount of hacks of any MMO created, at least ones that have any sort of respectable population. The only real exploits GW has ever had have all been exploitable game bugs, not ones from 3rd party programs, memory hacks, and packet hacks.

Then, the bots GW has are not really even bots, not like they have in other MMOs, they are just large macros, something that can not be prevented by anyone or anything unless you make a game that can be played without a keyboard or mouse.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

18 Jul 2009 at 07:58 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL

Ha.

Aside from bots, Guild Wars has had the least amount of hacks of any MMO created, at least ones that have any sort of respectable population. The only real exploits GW has ever had have all been exploitable game bugs, not ones from 3rd party programs, memory hacks, and packet hacks.

Then, the bots GW has are not really even bots, not like they have in other MMOs, they are just large macros, something that can not be prevented by anyone or anything unless you make a game that can be played without a keyboard or mouse.

I would say it is about the same as for bots it has had more of them as to why griffon farming got the stick as well as others.There were serveral ppl on this board who were banned for using a hack as well the all famous duping of ambraces.

This game has been expoited to death from this stuff.There were always builds to fix the expoits even in HA and RA yes even pvp had it share.

4thVariety

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

European Union

ADL

E/

18 Jul 2009 at 07:58 - 47

From the hacking perspective there is not one Guild Wars game. From the hacking perspective, there are three Guild Wars games.

(1) Guild Wars the Game, which is your missions, your dungeons, all the things that entertain by you PLAYING the game. Neither is there a need really to hack it, not a hack itself. Mapping the whole number keypad to getting back up in the brawling mission and mash with your whole hand is as outlaw as it gets.

(2) Guild Wars the Grind, which is your titles, mainly the ones you can buy or farm by repetitive actions. Stuff that entertains by admiring pixels. That part of the game is bot and macro infested as anyone would expect. It's not that bad as in other games, but it is not too tame either. At least it does not carry over into GW the game too much, so it's ok I guess. With the Xunlai bets there seems to be a trend to collect inactive accounts, which is better than botting, but still rather odd.

(3) Guild Wars the Competition, which is PvP. By the amount of drama an artificial draw result caused recently, you can see that this portion of the game really has no other worries. So far I know of no guild winning because they hacked anything. At one point there was some rather weird skill behavior, so people could rig a rapidfire macro to do massive damage. But that was a bug not a hack.

So 2/3 environments are cheat free, I'd call that a good thing. But remember, since other MMOs are more grind centric to retain players, the impact of the same relative amount of bots as in Guild Wars can be perceived as much much more in other games. Guild Wars is not ignored by botters, it is simply designed more cleverly to keep them at bay and not ruin the game as much for the simple players from bullet point (1). That is ArenaNet's secret to success in that department.

Nerel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2008

Australia, what you want my home address?

[CAT]

Mo/

18 Jul 2009 at 08:22 - 48

If I remember correctly, and I might very well be mistaken, but the Mallyx exploitation that caused quite a stir required a client side 'hack' for that first exploiter to access the otherwise inaccessible outpost, from that point he was able to ferry others to the outpost (and they didn't require any modification to their game client), who could in turn bring others.

I know this is only a singular incident, but it most definitely would qualify as a hack.

Still, while Guild Wars might not be entirely 'exploit' free, and macros can and do give people an advantage (both small macros for skill chains/weapon swapping and larger, bot macros.), I think ArenaNet has done a pretty damn good job of curtailing the more nefarious nature of gamers.

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

R/

18 Jul 2009 at 08:30 - 49

Gamegaurd is bad. It only makes it require slightly more knowledge to hack, at a very bad expense. Due to its nature it wont work on Linux either, which automatically makes it a POS imo.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

18 Jul 2009 at 15:49 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would say it is about the same as for bots it has had more of them as to why griffon farming got the stick as well as others.There were serveral ppl on this board who were banned for using a hack as well the all famous duping of ambraces.

This game has been expoited to death from this stuff.There were always builds to fix the expoits even in HA and RA yes even pvp had it share.

Oh please. Your lack of knowledge about other video games is really showing through if you think GW has a ton of hacks compared to other games like it. D2 anybody?

Sjeng

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

in my GH

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

W/

18 Jul 2009 at 15:59 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoth_au

I recently saw some screenshots of Aion and immediately thought how similar the hud setup and environment looked to GW, albeit slightly improved graphically.

It also striked me how similar the character artwork has been to guild wars.

I played the beta and found it not remotely like GW thb.

Nodakim

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

Hrvatska

N/Me

18 Jul 2009 at 18:37 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The Aion and GW development teams are entirely separate. Aion is developed in Korea and GW is developed in the US.

You mean GW2?

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

18 Jul 2009 at 19:13 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

I played the beta and found it not remotely like GW thb.

/seconded

so I resubbed to EvE and Warhammer and having a blast on both

oh and a two week retry for free of Age of Conan is shaping up quite nicely too

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

18 Jul 2009 at 20:58 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

Speaking of both Aion and GW2, I discovered another voice actor who is actually used in both games. Check this out:

http://www.sobolov.com/

Unfortunately, he seems sworn to secrecy on what he did in GW2.

He has an awesome evil voice though.

Nice find. Gw2 must be into some cut-scenes or NPC voices :P.

OnTopic:

Aion looks way more like Lineage II with wings. I haven't tried Aion yet, so I don't really know much.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

18 Jul 2009 at 22:42 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Nice find. Gw2 must be into some cut-scenes or NPC voices :P.

OnTopic:

Aion looks way more like Lineage II with wings. I haven't tried Aion yet, so I don't really know much.

To bad by then voiceovers will be pretty standard by the time GW2 comes out. The Old Republic is FULLY VOICED. Every mission, quest, NPC, player character, everybody. The largest voiceover project ever.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

18 Jul 2009 at 22:51 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

/seconded

so I resubbed to EvE and Warhammer and having a blast on both

oh and a two week retry for free of Age of Conan is shaping up quite nicely too

Last time I checked, EVE is a second job, and WAR is either watered down PvE from WoW or CC lovefest in PvP, with everyone holding together and RDPS killing everyone.

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

18 Jul 2009 at 22:58 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

To bad by then voiceovers will be pretty standard by the time GW2 comes out. The Old Republic is FULLY VOICED. Every mission, quest, NPC, player character, everybody. The largest voiceover project ever.

So is Oblivion. Every NPC has a voice, all dialog has a voice. Amazing

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

19 Jul 2009 at 01:54 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Last time I checked, EVE is a second job, and WAR is either watered down PvE from WoW or CC lovefest in PvP, with everyone holding together and RDPS killing everyone.

nope and nope

Love EvE because it can be as indepth or not as you want

Love WAR cos I'm a Games Workshop fan and I love playing my Squig Herder and Warrior Priest both in RvR and PvE and it's the first game I've enjoyed getting into pvp in other than Guild Wars and EvE because its actually quite seemless into the PvE through the tiered RvR and as players play the same classes as NPCs (and yeah, most are the same intelligence level too

)

immortius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Black Cats

E/Mo

19 Jul 2009 at 12:48 - 59

On GameGuard:

For some reason a number of MMOs, generally Korean ones, come with these 3rd-party anti-cheat mechanisms. These generally screw with the user, preventing alt-tabbing (because you never want to take a break to check a website or answer a message while playing), or even prevent you playing the game for no reason. Worst of all, they generally get circumvented anyway.

The use of these applications generally shows a lack of proper coding on the part of the developer and if a game requires one to be secure you can bet cheating will be common regardless.

Ok, I will admit that these applications are one of the few things that can help prevent botting, but once again any mechanism on a client machine can be circumvented. Better to address the grindy gameplay that makes botting feasible and attractive.

4thVariety

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

European Union

ADL

E/

19 Jul 2009 at 14:09 - 60

Each exploit in a rootkit is a Pandora's box waiting to blow up in the face of thousands of users. One hacker cracks that thing and he has root access on a lot of machines. That spells disaster and not just because some MMO accounts get stolen.

For me Gameguard is the reason to stay away from Aion. Forcing users to install Gameguard is telling them "I know you will want to cheat, we made the game that way so you will take 4 months for everything and pay more fees meanwhile".

Ec]-[oMaN

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Toronto, Ont.

[DT][pT][jT][Grim][Nion]

W/

19 Jul 2009 at 18:44 - 61

For me GameGuard spells there really is no consistency checks between the game servers and client, if they need a third party program to try and prevent altering packets/code/execution that spells trouble enough.

Gigashadow

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Bellevue, WA

W/

19 Jul 2009 at 22:21 - 62

It doesn't necessarily mean there are no consistency checks, or that there is little or no checking on packets coming from the client (although these things still could be true). Other reasons for this sort of software include:

1) The client knows more than it exposes to the user, and they don't want third party software to expose that. For example, the radar only displays dots in a frontal arc, but it's pretty obvious from the speed at which things appear when you rapidly spin around, that the client actually has full knowledge of what is around you and is not making roundtrips to the server to get that information.

2) Bots that are more complex than simple keymashers need to understand simple things about the game state. These generally use DLL injection to get into the process, and you want to catch that.

It wouldn't surprise me if the server trusts the client a great deal in Aion, though, as the game performs so well and doesn't rubber band at all (rubber banding usually indicates a resolving of a dead reckoning conflict with "server wins!"). Games tend to do this to gain performance at the expense of security. WoW had this in spades at the beginning, when you could actually teleport anywhere. They gradually improved that over the years, presumably as their server hardware could spare the cycles to do more checking.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

29 Jul 2009 at 05:59 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

So Aion is more of an Archlord look then? Not bad.

They look like Rohan to me, meaning like any Korean MMORPGs you get, which means its not unique, which means. if the game play is not good, what else is there?
see the top level armor <<mmosite link.

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

29 Jul 2009 at 17:54 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoth_au

I recently saw some screenshots of Aion and immediately thought how similar the hud setup and environment looked to GW, albeit slightly improved graphically.

Really? To me it looks a lot like WoW, minus the five year-old graphics.

It seems Aion devs took the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" approach. Not that I blame them... WoW's popularity is proof enough that it doesn't need fixing and I'm sure players who migrate will feel comfortable seeing these familiar features.

Take a random screenshot from google.

The party window is exactly in the same position as WoW's default and set up the same way... except instead of portraits you have class icons and health bars are red instead of green.

The chat log is exactly the same. Color scheme, message format, even the font, I think... although it's hard to tell since the text is in Korean, but you can see "[1. General] Name: blah blah" in chat.

Same goes for character names and guild tags.

The skill bar is GW-ish, that's about it.

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

29 Jul 2009 at 18:49 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

The skill bar is GW-ish, that's about it.

I don't even think the skillbar is GWish.

Looks like every other "more skills is better!" copycat MMORPG.

With potions, too, it looks like. I am so glad GW doesn't have Health and Mana potions (not talking about GW consumables, talking about RPG style Health and Mana potions)

Buster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Elona

Clan Eternal Legion

D/W

29 Jul 2009 at 19:18 - 66

Other than flying and it having good graphics it is really nothing to get excited about. Thats why I'll be playing Champions Online instead and I'm sure I'll be back just in time to finished up on some GW stuff to get ready for GW2.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

29 Jul 2009 at 19:40 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

Other than flying and it having good graphics it is really nothing to get excited about. Thats why I'll be playing Champions Online instead and I'm sure I'll be back just in time to finished up on some GW stuff to get ready for GW2.

Did you play it?

Clobimon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

29 Jul 2009 at 19:52 - 68

One can make some pretty darn good looking characters, not unlike GW or what I'm assuming will be even better, GW2. Here are a few shots of the Mage I made during one of the weekend betas:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...imon/Mage1.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...imon/Mage3.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...imon/Mage2.jpg

I've played several hours during the betas they've had so far and in my opinion it doesn't 'feel' all that similar to GW. While there are elements that may look similar, whether a tree or mob, it is quite different. I'll be playing it, but at this time it hasn't changed my longtime plan of it filling up time until GW2. If good enough I may play it as well afterward though.

note: I really miss Jeremy Soule music when listening to the music in other games.

Buster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Elona

Clan Eternal Legion

D/W

29 Jul 2009 at 20:09 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Did you play it?

Been in the Aion beta for about a month now. Customization is better than GW as well as the graphics but you really aren't missing much as I previously stated. Aug 1st I get a key for Champions Online beta.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

29 Jul 2009 at 20:11 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

Been in the Aion beta for about a month now. Customization is better than GW as well as the grpahics but you really aren't missing much as I previously stated. Aug 1st I get a key for Champions Online beta.

Did you get past level 20, i.e. 2/5th of the pre-endgame content for any of the sides? Because, you know, "a month" means "2 weekends", give or take.

Also, I'm getting my CO beta key on 1st too ;d So many great games coming out instead of GW2.

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

29 Jul 2009 at 20:16 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clobimon

One can make some pretty darn good looking characters, not unlike GW or what I'm assuming will be even better, GW2. Here are a few shots of the Mage I made during one of the weekend betas:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...imon/Mage1.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...imon/Mage3.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...imon/Mage2.jpg

I've played several hours during the betas they've had so far and in my opinion it doesn't 'feel' all that similar to GW. While there are elements that may look similar, whether a tree or mob, it is quite different. I'll be playing it, but at this time it hasn't changed my longtime plan of it filling up time until GW2. If good enough I may play it as well afterward though.

note: I really miss Jeremy Soule music when listening to the music in other games.

She's green. This negates all good looks.

Buster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Elona

Clan Eternal Legion

D/W

29 Jul 2009 at 20:24 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Did you get past level 20, i.e. 2/5th of the pre-endgame content for any of the sides? Because, you know, "a month" means "2 weekends", give or take.

Also, I'm getting my CO beta key on 1st too ;d So many great games coming out instead of GW2.

Unfortunatey no Abyss for me. I was pretty much not impressed because everything seemed too familar. The pve is all fedex qests and raid content. I felt like I already played this game before without purchasing it. Also yes, there will be plenty of other great games to play instead of GW like Borderlands, Torchlight and also people will be trying Fallen Earth mmo. Also preparing for Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. So Arenanet has a ton of convincing to do to get me to come play GW2.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

29 Jul 2009 at 20:52 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

Unfortunatey no Abyss for me. I was pretty much not impressed because everything seemed too familar. The pve is all fedex qests and raid content. I felt like I already played this game before without purchasing it. Also yes, there will be plenty of other great games to play instead of GW like Borderlands, Torchlight and also people will be trying Fallen Earth mmo. Also preparing for Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. So Arenanet has a ton of convincing to do to get me to come play GW2.

Seriously? I don't know if there will be anyone interested in playing GW2 by the time it comes out.

Aion, Champions Online, TOR, Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, Borderlands (yeah, it looks promising - but so did Hellgate...)... And that's not counting potent single-player games.

Btw: Do you know where we can download the CO client beforehand? You know, so the servers are not blocked up to hell like during the first hours of Aion Closed Betas?

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

She's green. This negates all good looks.

That's why people that want nice looking characters go Elyos. They don't have claws or hair on their backs, too.

Buster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Elona

Clan Eternal Legion

D/W

29 Jul 2009 at 21:26 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Seriously? I don't know if there will be anyone interested in playing GW2 by the time it comes out.

Aion, Champions Online, TOR, Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, Borderlands (yeah, it looks promising - but so did Hellgate...)... And that's not counting potent single-player games.

Btw: Do you know where we can download the CO client beforehand? You know, so the servers are not blocked up to hell like during the first hours of Aion Closed Betas?

That's why people that want nice looking characters go Elyos. They don't have claws or hair on their backs, too.

Until I get my key for CO I have no idea. I got the key from gamerzines promotion so I imagine I will be downloading from Cryptic's site I would imagine.

It is going to be quite interesting to see who will be interested in GW2. Their decision to let Aion take center stage was a bad thing not to mention no real new content or news of GW2 left a sour taste in alot of people. They just better pray Diablo 3 and The Old Republic do not release anywhere near their time to do so.

Clobimon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

29 Jul 2009 at 21:34 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

She's green. This negates all good looks.

It's a color palette pointer system for skin tone. It didn't look all that green on my monitor, but anyway, can be multitude of shades from dark to white skin to greens and purples.

Clobimon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

29 Jul 2009 at 21:52 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Seriously? I don't know if there will be anyone interested in playing GW2 by the time it comes out.

I will be. After playing the game of another company for the past year my eyes have been reopened to how good ANet is. The success of GW from the start when it's competition was the oh-so-popular WoW at it's fairly young age just hitting it's stride... compared to the last few "big" games going against aging games people are growing tired of and pleading for something good and still not doing very well. There very well may and should be more competition at GW2's release, but my guess is that some of the older games and newer ones not doing very well will suffer more.

own age myname

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Minnesota

[TAS]

R/

30 Jul 2009 at 00:05 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Seriously? I don't know if there will be anyone interested in playing GW2 by the time it comes out.

Aion, Champions Online, TOR, Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, Borderlands (yeah, it looks promising - but so did Hellgate...)... And that's not counting potent single-player games.

I will be interested

All those games you listed I'm not even remotely interest in getting. I'm only awaiting 3 games; Elder Scrolls V, FFXIII, and GW2. Pretty sure I will be able to play and afford all three.

Garreth MacLeod

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

30 Jul 2009 at 12:53 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

She's green. This negates all good looks.

You've never heard of the Orion Slave Girls?

orion_girl_1.jpg

orion_slave_girl.jpg

Azadaleou

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ohio

A/W

30 Jul 2009 at 15:43 - 79

Aion looks just like Lineage II. It even plays like it.

Regina Buenaobra

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2008

Me/

30 Jul 2009 at 17:04 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

That's why people that want nice looking characters go Elyos. They don't have claws or hair on their backs, too.

You can get the Asmodians to look stereotypically "pretty" / nice-looking. A lot of the pictures I've seen of Asmodians have them looking like Elyos, but with a different skin color (with claws and back hair, of course).