Jeff Strain leaves NCSoft

Lonesamurai

as a games Journalist you do not find it strange that an MMO that has "supposedly" been in development stages for at least 2 years doesn't release any information to the projected core playerbase?

News of Aion was released in a variety of forms literally since concept, teasers, trailers, wallpapers, you know that thing they call MARKETING and what happened when it released it did so to an explosion in the playerbase and vast sums of money being generated, why did that happen, because they had primed the playerbase and built a following.

Now lets see how that stacks against GW2, near zero information to the existing playerbase (it is in development, we cannot say more, bear with us etc...) and ZERO news outside of an avid existing playerbase

Do you honestly (as a games Journo) not see any problem there at all?

MMO and online games do not spring out of thin air and land in the middle of a big playerbase, without marketing and gossip they die a quick death.

No, not at all

and others will back me up on this as the average for game development is 5 years and they usually only show info about a year on average before release

hell, I'm just a journalist, there are people on this forum who have worked in Games development for other companies that will agree

and I heard NOTHING of Aion before the chinese beta as I don't cover that side of the world and the deluge of games that come out over there because there is just too much to cover, but remember MMO's are also still a newer thing to the western games side of things and we're still quite young to them compared to the asian communities too and we'll also take longerto produce them... hell, there have been more flops in the western market than successes, look at Auron failing (sorry JR)and games like Hellgate London and Tabula Rasa closing down after a short space of time, WoW and GW are really the minority of success in the western games community

The "gaile years" are over if you haven't noticed. I am of the same opinion as LoneSamurai's that Martin's word that there'll be "something" by the end of the year will hold true. And Mike O'Brein's said today that "[the day when we can first reveal GW2] is coming very soon now." and that is the most encouraging news we've ever heard since GW2 was first released.

Interesting post. My question is, and correct me if I'm wrong. Since Aion's been such a hit so far with a large GW population flocked to it (not sure on the numbers here, but my guild alone has a great interest in it) why NCSoft would even bother with GW2 release?
Believe me, I've been sitting on pins and needles waiting on a breath of a wind of a word about it myself. Aion hits the scene...CE that's $80 plus and a monthly fee to boot. Why would they release a free game? Still, that's assuming GW2 will remain without a monthly subscription fee.
Just something that's been on my mind lately. Aion's a beautiful game and I've been addicted to it since the first beta. I honestly don't know how GW2 can beat it...JMHO!

Firstly, it's not NCSoft, it's ArenaNet. Sure they own ArenaNet, but that doesn't mean they would be succesfull in stopping ArenaNet developing Guild Wars 2. I'm fairly sure the IP belongs to ArenaNet, so they would just reform under another publisher.

Secondly, your guild is probably not the most accurate polling sample. Whilst I know of quite a few people who have moved to Aion, the number that will stick with it after release is much smaller.

NCSoft also has Lineage II, which is much more simmilar to Aion than Guild Wars 2 will ever be. That didn't stop them making Aion, so why should it stop them making GW2?

Guild Wars 2 will definately not have a monthly fee, they have been over that many times.

There are a LOT of differences between the two. Aion is a korean grind MMO, where Guild Wars 2 will follow the same low time investment route of the original. Guild Wars 2 will be free to play, Aion will not.

There are easily enough differences for them to have two marketable products.

The game has been in full blown development for at least 3 years,and they gave abosultely no infromation?
(from the momment they canceled Utopia in 2006)
Diablo 3 may was 5 years in development before they announced it,but during that 5 years the ammount of fan bitching was somewhere near god.

absolutely no information is just plain wrong Nodakim, look at the GW2 wiki and all the interviews

/applauds Sarcasm is so underrated on the 'net these days

@ Lonesamurai, I am sorry to say that if you and fril are happy to take what a-net say at face value then you are very naive indeed, you only have to look at past isssues with a-net to realise all is not good in their ship (to steal an earlier analogy)

Failure to perform on an existing product usual belies failure to perform on a newer product and no company in it's right mind would act as they have been recently unless there is some kind of upset happening.

The simple truth is that marketing an MMO usually begins not long after the concept stage to try and build a bit of momentum, AOC had marketing from concept and dragged ppl along until release (even though it was kind of poor), even Darkfall has built a playerbase awaiting the release from concept, GW did the same when they decided to leave blizzard and form A-net to take their own concept forward and released information as much as possible to garner a corner of the market.

This time they have done no such thing, FYI no MMO releases information a year before release they build it over a period of time to actually make the general public aware something is coming.

Just to make you aware, there have been videos, artwork and screenshots of Aion since early/mid 2006 to give you a reference of the timescale needed to filter things through to the general public, the client for it was actully shown at a games convention that year too from memory and no I am not a Journo but I do use the net to keep an eye on anything that interests me.

I dont consider lore as informations about the game nor statements like "we may or may not increase the level cap to infinite"-
Its just funny how they can avoid answering questions,they are the kings of silence.

but the Western Aion is a different beast to the eastern one that was shown back then, but I'll be the first to admit that I do miss somethings with the small mountain of press release I get per day now, honestly I read half the titles and don't read them as they hold no real interest

but also on that point, just because other companies do things one way, why should ANet?
the GW2 wiki doesn't just have lore info

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2

far more info there than just Lore

Well a player over 4yrs on G/W and a subscriber to Aion.

I for one would jump ship back to G/W2 as soon as info is forthcoming.


Aion has a lot of grind nomatter what some say(just some guys like grinding)

As I said long time ago re Aion once its up and running info will trickle through
on G/W and it would be near end of year.

Mabe since this has happend we may get a snippet before that.This will calm some guys down some and the wait for better info at a later date.

I for one will just be paitient and wait as no rush to get info.

So the fanbase is still there as sales are still moving on g/w1 which for a non subscribe online game has given more to the people than any other has for free play.

You are talking about a genre that relatively speaking is in its infancy. You are on very sketchy ground trying to draw examples from other succesful MMOs as a justification. There are too few to identify a trend, and without a trend you really don't know what you are looking at.

Sure, MMOs usually start marketing earlier. That doesn't mean it's always the best option. MMOs had never survived just off box sales before Guild Wars came along either. I'm sure back then there were people saying 'This will never work!'.

It's even more ridiculous to advize copying common formulae when virtually every MMO around us is crumbling. ArenaNet is doing things differently? Great.

I also don't see how you can justify saying ArenaNet has 'failed to perform' on Guild Wars. It has been very succesful, and as online games go has lasted quite a long time. Sure it's no UO, Diablo or WoW, but maybe that was never their intention. If you measure of success includes profitable and well regarded then ArenaNet have done fine.

Finally, I really don't see the neccesity of releasing marketing material much earlier than a year from release. Usually that is just publishers pushing the developer to make something shiney that will help secure more funding. It doesn't really do the game any good. Do you really need to see a game two years in advance? If a trailer says 'Releasing in 2010' instead of '2011' would you be likely to ignore it for some reason?

It's not about how early you start marketing, it is about how much marketing you do, period. It's about the audience you reach with your adverts and media. If ArenaNet is waiting for the game to be more polished before making a big push on that front then more power to them, it makes sense to me. Also there's the same old argument of it giving the competition less time to react.

You're doing exactly everything we're doing, but on the other side of the argument (disregarding anything they're saying). This is perfectly fine, because from our viewpoint (as customers), it's this way. Anet is not Blizzard or BioWare, they fight on their own ground where they know they can make GW2 a success. If they loose customers, they're loosing their money, business and jobs, so they're not stupid.

Anet succeeded in making GW1 a great success, people should never forget that, however they feel about mistakes, failures and problems.

Holy crap. Holy crap. Holy crap, you guys...

I've been lurking this forum as of late reading up on everyone's GW2 speculations and whatnot, and I must say, most of you GW fans turned doomsayers have unreasonably short fuses.

I waited through development and beta tested and played darkfall...DARKFALL, y'all know what that was? The game that everyone thought was vaporware because it took almost a decade to develop! Really, GW2 doomsayers have almost nothing to complain about in my eyes because they've waited a mere 2 years with no info. Until they wait 7 years in the dark, they really need to just sit back and take a chill pill.

Btw, I hated Darkfall and quit 2 months after launch.

@ Martacus you missed the point that there was information for Darkfall in the public domain for the better part of the last 8+ years whereas GW2 all that is know is that it is in development, as I said earlier a very expansive term that covers everything from stickman storyboards to release.

@ Fril & Lone

Initially GW was a success (I wouldn't say a great success as there are bigger online games in the market but I would still assume GW is in top 20 presently)

The problem lies in lack of public awareness, GW may well quote figures for the userbase of 4million+ in actuality I doubt it is greater than 20% of that playing now, whereas WoW is still pushing around 60%+, again this comes back to one fundamental difference.

Subscription MMO will always have better resources, marketing, community relations than non-subscription purely for the fact that they generate the cash to be able to continue and evolve from their infant company onwards, A-net chose to make a markedly different approach and we have now seen how that has affected them, as soon as the "box" revenue falls they are in dire straits in relation to actual cash flow for developing etc... this has led to the stagnantion of GW as a whole and the opening of the Pandora's box of Micro-transactions which we can only assume is the forerunner for GW2 (try the tech before you implement it)

GW2 will have to make 1 big choice, they have already seen that box revenue will not work alone, so they will have to follow the model of Box+Micro or Box+Subscription I am 100% certain they will want to avoid the F2P tag so will avoid a free client and go with the box.

However before they do anything they need to get their ship in order, I said last month in a different thread that I would expect GW2 beta to hit by October 2010 earliest due to the release of Aion by their parent company, the non-competition clause is usually rife in business contracts between parent & Subsidiary companies and I would expect the NCSoft/a-net relationship to be no different and in such a clause it is routine to specify a period of 6-12 months without competing this enables the parent to stabilise their product before a competitive product is released from within their own stable.

Again this is all assuming there is a GW2, all that Mike has said was there will be more information before the end of the year, that is as likely to mean scrapping GW2 as it is releasing it so as usual it is wait and see.

Whilst we are waiting to see maybe a-net should look at it's policy of communicating with the playerbase as tbh it is extremely poor.

Could it be possible that Ncwest has tried to prevent news of GW2 until Aoin is on its feet in Eu/Na?
Just as thought. As to get the best sales it can from Aoin.

Hopefully we'll see something by the end of the year

I really don't know how you expect anyone to take you seriously when you have such ridiculous notions. GW2 being scrapped? Maybe having a subscription? Guild Wars not having been a success?

If you focused your efforts on things with some actual basis it might be worth arguing with you.

Still no word from Regina about Jeff Strain leaving? She's supposed to be our number one link to Anet and yet it wasn't her who was first to inform us of NCsoft problems and how it could effect GW2 development (considering Jeff Strain is the father of GW). I think they would have realised already the amount of speculation that has been swarming around the GW community and how more and more people are convincing themselves GW2 is just vaporware (which i firmly think it isn't).

And GW was not an "ok" MMO compared to the other giants. In the face of WoW, GW was still able to amass 6+ million accounts. Now to justify that not all those accounts are used is just stupid because Anet don't make any money from players using their accounts, only from simply buying them. In the face of WoW, PCGamer had fallen in love with Nightfall and recommended readers to play GW OVER WoW. In the face of WoW, GW has been able to create such a devoted fan base that people are still racking up rediculous hours of gameplay, despite players complaining of lack of updates and ballancing issues (so ya'll should shut up about that. quit the game if you complain so much).

And i'm sorry, but GW graphics are much better than WoW, so try explaining that to your monthly subscription.

It's sad to hear that Jeff Strain had left NC Soft, but he was already out of the driving seat, in terms of developing GW because of his new NCwest job. the 2 other co creators are still there and hopefully they will pull Anet together and sort their next heavy dosage of addictive gameplay.

PS, Anet will never charge a monthly subscription. They've said that from the on set of GW and made it clear in interviews regarding basic gameplay of GW2. Why use a new business model if the old one worked so well?

Fate

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=119

The start of your post made sense but then you derailed into GW is better than WoW for gfx etc.. and I fell asleep

In short, A-net have said alot of things in the past and then never adhered to them, so to expect them to not follow a sunscription or Micro payment system is extremely naive, without it GW2 will flop hugely, they have tested the tech in GW1 and after a few bugs now have a working model they can apply to anything else they develop, get ued to the idea because one wa y or another they need cash and box sales do not provide a steady revenue stream which is critical to success now.

as for ppl shut up because some are still playing yadda yadda yadda, yes there are still people playing, but nowhere near as many as 2 years ago and definitely less in the past 12 months, the reason why so many ppl have left GW is because there is nothing to do and this is simply because it is an instanced game and without new content continually being added then there is simply nothing else to do in PvE, PvP is always ongoing but that is a different story.

new content takes money, without an income stream there is no money, box sales are unlikely to be even 10% of what they were as little as 12 months ago, see where this is going? yup that right, more microtransactional content to keep GW alive or simply calling it a day and saying this is it ppl the final build no more chapters etc.. coming.

I would happily put cash on the fact that GW2 will 100% have either box+micro or box+subs there is no way on earth they will go box only income again, again assuming there is a GW2, we will have to wait and see etc...

Note to all conspiracy theorists:

GW2 is in full development

GW2 will be released

It will be fun to play, and will actually be more beautiful than the current game, which is a feat in itself.

Screens, trailers, game info, and related material will be released in due time.

Please return your seatbacks and tray tables to their full upright position.

Yes, of course. As long as the corporate structure that's paying the bills doesn't implode. Which it just took a possible step towards.

And you base this on what proof?

Take off the fanboy glasses for a moment and look around, these comments (both sides of the fence) are made by people that have full knowledge of how a-net have succeeded or failed in the past, the things a-net continually fail on is communication and correct information we have seen 1 dev say 1 thing, dev2 say something else and then no action actually be taken at all.

Positivity is one thing, but fanboy enthused blind hope leads to delusional posts.

However, here is a thought

Assuming Aion is as big a success in NA/EU as it is in the eastern market, will NCSoft still wish to continue to fund the smaller subsidiaries? or will they want to put more into the development of their flagship?

This could play out one of 2 ways though, it would give a-net to MBO and the chance to seek their own development funds and if GW2 is already in playable development they would be able to release sooner and begin bringing in revenue, however if GW2 is not ready to Beta yet then it could also bring about the end of further development.

ArenaNet have never failed; their one product has a been a huge success. So what are you basing your accusations on? The fact that you feel spited because they don't mother you enough?

I've been with Guild Wars since beta, and have been ArenaNet's most vocal critic at times. I still really can't sympathize with your ranting.

"Positivity is one thing, but fanboy enthused blind hope leads to delusional posts."

The converse of that statement could be applied remarkably well to yourself. You are ignorant of the facts, and have no experience to speak of on which to base your inane theories.

Anet is big enough to be very resilient to one person leaving. Especially if that person was unrelated to it for one year. He had next to no official input on GW2.

What would you expect, devs stopping to work on GW2 because 'It is just not worth doing anymore without Jeff working for our corporate owner.'? PlayNC canceling GW2 because Jeff is no longer there defending it (or something)?

Please...

1 guy leaves and you're already expecting a corporate meltdown? What the hell are you basing this on? He's simply left. They will simply employ someone else. Anet will simply carry on doing what they have been doing without him already for a while.

Your views are too generalised and hypocritical. If you want to delve into insinuations of the end of GW and Anet, why can't you realise that Anet can simply detach themselves from NCsoft. They may be a wholly subsidised company, but that is at the moment. An umbrella company, especially a publisher, cannot ruin their subsidiaries completeley. Anet can eventually find another publisher. Now, why don't YOU look at all the other MMOs and realise this is what Blizzard chose to do with themselves and the other developers they bought.

Fact.

They have failed.

They have canceled Utopia that was a failure. They built a business model that was going to be supported by releasing content in the way of new Chapters every 6 months, that plan failed and was scrapped as they realized after a few chapters they needed to start over with GW2. They resorted to micro transactions in the current product, that wasn't the original model.

So yes they have failed. They have also failed on all of their early statements on timing for GW2. So please don't have a selective memory.

Quite frankly they hit a home run with the initial GW release, and it has been downhill ever since.

So, 1 success, followed by multiple failures, missing dates, then going silent. Followed by shutdown of some of the other development studios under NCSoft, cancellation of released products, and departure of key personnel.

Now I still have some hope. But lets not bury our heads and ignore fact. I am done believing and trusting. I need to see something.

Sad news indeed, but I'm sure GW will survive. I just hope they continued with their development plans of releasing a campaign every 6 months and did not jump into GW2.
I'm more than glad to keep playing GW if they would have just kept updating it with expansions and such.

@fog of redoubt

They decided it would be best to take Utopia in a different direction, it wasn't a cancelled project because it was never got much further than the planning phase.

So they changed their model? Oh god no! God forbid they don't get a revolutionary business model right first time. The model worked for two chapters, it was not a failure.

Accuse me of a selective memory if you will, but at least the evidence of the things they have got right is fairly obvious. You can't seem to come up with one coherant example.

Apparently your selective memory is worse than originally diagnosed, it is complicated by selective reading also.

YOU said they have never failed. I pointed out multiple examples of incorrect decisions, business models that needed to be adjusted, along with other issues.

You can believe what you want.

I don't have an issue at all with the change in direction, and the decisions that they are making. I point them out because you and others continually overlook them.

They have overdrawn on their credibility and trust at this point. They have no credit left. I believe what I see, not what they tell me they want me to believe.

Aion has flop written all over it. NCSoft is cranking out flops left and right. Auto Assualt and Tabula Rasa were not good. When Aion flops the impact could be devastating on GW2. Anet needs to follow Jeff's lead and get the heck away from NCSoft.


Pretty much.

Whether Anet failed or not is the opinion. They canceled Utopia, fact. They used parts of Utopia in their new project, fact (and a lore disaster). They said a product every year (I recall year, not 6 months >_>), fact. Up to 08, they did this: last product being the BMP.

There are things they couldn't live up to, true, but that doesn't mean they failed. That last part is where fact turns into opinion.

A canceled project is only a 'fail' if the work goes to waste, and the time and resources are thrown out the window. If it is converted to something successful that paves the way for future opportunities I believe that would be described as a 'win'.

exactly Konig and again I say Bingo!

ANet themselves said the current game client failed to do what they needed to to keep up with the original business model, hence the change of plans

an agreement of failure through hindsight is the sign of a clever man and learning from mistakes

look, its very simple, GW was a success, however the game engine (by ANets own admission) is flawed and rather than carrying on, they changed tack for the next project

EDIT: Ok, with what JR said too

It was supposed to be a campaign released every 6 months you need to stop rewriting history.

The BMP is not a campaign nor an expansion you are grasping at straws to make a point that doesn't exist.

It absolutely means they failed. When ever you promise and don't deliver its called failure.

So once again.

I pointed those things out because there was the implication of perfect execution thus far. There have been many "failures", "mistakes", "strategy adjustments", call them what you want.

I am not saying the adjustments that were made were wrong given the circumstances. I just refuse to be blind to the fact that they have had an imperfect run thus far.

There have been many unfulfilled promises. There are many people here, and I am among them, that refuse to just accept their word at this point.

I will believe it when I see it. I also will not be surprised to see things continue to go south.

Ok, I'll repeat it in bigger letters for you as you obviously had trouble reading it...

look, its very simple, GW was a success, however the game engine (by ANets own admission) is flawed and rather than carrying on, they changed tack for the next project


EDIT: Damn Size tags don't work on guru...

Meanwhile, NCsoft profits have gone up by 451%.

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/news...ump-451-a.html

GW2 is doomed I tell ya, dooooomed!

Whenever you really have nothing relevant to say bring out the fanboy insults. People leave large corporations all the time and they continue without a hitch. I see no reason to think this case will be any different.

Uhhh, as I said, as I RECALL.

It was still a product, and while working on GW2 as well, there's only so much a company that size can do...

I think the word fail is too common in the internet and just as harsh for the situation (and many other "fail" situations). Whenever a promise isn't kept is a failure? Ok, I'm a failure, you're a failure, everyone is a failure. There is not a single person who cannot keep every, single, word that they say.

So they are human. What is your point? Guild Wars is still going strong (despite what people say), and there is not legitimate reason to think Guild Wars 2 isn't. So they have some "failures" or "mistakes," but the company isn't a failure.