When did it become Grind Wars?

Seems you missed consets, and the Kurzick + Luxon + Norn + Asuran + Deldrimor + Vanguard + Sunspear + Lightbringer titles/skills.

Geez this thread is right next to the "UWSC going to be nerfed?" thread....talk about contradiction.

I personally don't consider items farming grinding just because of the presence of cheap collector/crafter weapons/armor that are ridiculously easy to get. They have to same stats as the prestige versions and doesn't affect effectiveness at all.

The only thing I will ever consider grind is when something happens that actually reduce PUG effectiveness. Stuff like the EoTN dungeon are what I consider grind because of ridiculous power creep that are FAR above what average pugs can handle. Collateral damage skill nerfs like the PvP skill nerfs affecting PvE or the farming skill nerfs that affect normal PvE are what I consider grind increasing.

Otherwise, anything goes.

Don't get me started on Eye of The North. I remember before Ursan was nerfed I had a decent norn rank and we decided to go into Frostmaw with a full group, I don't know if it was even hard mode, but we had a full group with the 2-3 monks whatever it was and wiped almost instantly. I think I lasted longer in DoA with pugs.

It got far worst once ursan was nerfed. Now people either give up, get a 600/smite run, or struggle over and over with a perma.

Sometime last Thursday the popular game known as Guild Wars was redubbed as Grind Wars.

itt: NF

It became grind when they made titles give actual advantages (LB/SS, EoTN stuff, wisdom, lucky, etc, etc).

Sorry, but, it never became grind wars, because any grinding is OPTIONAL and you never have to go for any titles to play this game. I've completed all three chapters and GWEN and haven't grinded for anything and have no titles. I have points into titles merely by playing, but, they aren't anything I specifically went for. Therefore it is not and has never been grind wars. You only make it grind wars if YOU CHOOSE to do so. Game never forces you to.

Now your PEERS may force you to grind if they don't like your character makeup or build. That's a whole different ballgame and are HUMAN actions in the game not the game itself. They can force you to grind if you want in their group or guild but once again YOU have the CHOICE if you want to or not.

So, quit whinning that Guild Wars has turned into grind wars, it never has and never will by the game standards. Only by human intervention. Do you always OBEY what other humans tell you you have to do?

[edit] One thing of note you might want to say that the Sunspear titles are grind in Nightfall to get off of newbie island. BUT, if you play the story out as it unfolds you will get all the points you need to get off that island without one bit of grind. Now, if you choose to try to exploit the game and get a run to Consolate docks at level 1 or 2 that's your own fault and thus you CHOSE to GRIND to get off that island.

Nope not even these are REQUIRED to finish or play the game. Once again you CHOOSE whether you want to go for these added advantages to the game but not required titles. You never have to get one point into any of them to complete the story of the game.

Grind is when you get tired of doing the same thing again and again.

Each one has a different limit for that. For some people even the Hero title won't be grind, while for others having to make the same quest twice is grind already.

For me, anything that is done by doing the same thing again and again and will take more than one month playing two ours per day is grind.

^ This.

It was either grind content, or no content.

Grind = Factions. To get the titles, etc., grind is no longer an option but a necessity.

*sigh* Ursan is not nerfed. Husband as well as several in our Alliance use it quite frequently and very successfully! To nerf something is to render it un-usable, and they prove otherwise.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.

While true that these things give an advantage over others who don't have these titles, the bigger truth is it's probably not enough of an advantage to make a difference it to the average player.

Let's take "Save Yourselves!" for example. This is a nice skill to have in PvE, no doubt, but it's not required, and certainly not required to max out! I managed to get 800,000 Luxon faction without grinding, just doing the occasional PvP Z-quest, and a couple of Vanquishing of Luxon areas (never MQSC). And the benefit of Allegiance Rank 12 vs Rank 4? One whole additional second. (no difference between rank 10 and rank 12).

And don't get me started on the Sunspear or Lightbringer QQing. Sunspear and Lightbringer advance well enough just playing the game, and the difference between Whirlwind Attack is 13 to 20 points damage, all of which is more than Cyclone Axe, so even at Rank 1 it's a better skill. And getting rank 8 (+19 dam) is no biggy. No reason to grind to get to Rank 10.

EoTN is probably the worse potential for grind with all the different tracks and such. But again, let's take "Pain Inverter: (6...10 seconds.) Deals 100...140% of the attack damage (maximum 80) back to target foe every time it does damage." Again, nice to max, but even Rank 4 will get you 8 seconds of 116% damage!

So, yes, grinding gets you a slight advantage, but if you don't feel it's worth it, it's nothing you need to do, and most casual players will get fine results from even non-maxed title tracks.

Also worth noting this is all PvE-only stuff and doesn't effect PvP at all!

first of all, theres a good kind of grind and a bad kind of grind. lets start with the bad kind: creating a standardized routine to get a job finished as quickly and efficiently as possible, aka pve titles. now the good kind: playing something over and over again for practicing to improve your skills and get better at the game, aka pvp.

there are many ways to play pve over and over again and not have it considered a bad grind, but two things have prevented this: titles and hard mode. it became grind wars the moment people stopped caring about actually being good at the game, but rather becoming good at taking the easiest and fastest route to obtaining e-peen (and yes this can include pvp and fame farming). it doesn't help that many people confuse the two, real skills and fake bragging rights.

Nerf: To weaken a game mechanic while leaving it usable.
Smiter's Boon: To castrate a game mechanic and make sure it never sees the light of day again.

Correct. The correct term for what happened to Smiter's Boon is 'nuked out of orbit'.

For us early playing folk, things were Ether Renewaled