I don't know which one to use. Signet of Spirits looks like it's better because of the multiple spirits, but people say it's bugged.
Can someone give me a good opinion of which signet to use?
Signet of Spirits or Signet of Ghostly Might?
gunster
Marty Silverblade
People seem to like both. Maybe SoS if you don't have a lot of space on your bar for spirits (SoGM isn't useful if you don't have many spirits). Also, SoGM is Communing, so if you aren't using it then SoS is your option.
Darcy
I use Signet of Spirits on my rit build and have no problems with it. It is a great addition to any spirit spammer build in PvE. If you are talking PvP, then I have no opinion.
lewis91
I use SoS, the only glitch is you must be targetting something whilst casting (i think, haven't been on my rit in a week or more) Its a fun elite especially combined with painful bond.
Lishy
SoS is good for support builds or builds when you invest in channeling or just plain when you need more meatshields, whilst SoGM is used where you don't touch channeling.
It is also used when you prefer "Quality over quantity" spirits. For example. Anguish whilst under SoGM deals a total off 58 dmg+IAS+Other spirits
Spirits from SoS have a chance of not hitting same target as well, removing from their total damage. Plus they have no IAS.
Conclusion?
When you need more meatshields and spreaded damage, take Signet of Spirits. When you want stronger, single target, take Signet of Ghostly Might.
It is also used when you prefer "Quality over quantity" spirits. For example. Anguish whilst under SoGM deals a total off 58 dmg+IAS+Other spirits
Spirits from SoS have a chance of not hitting same target as well, removing from their total damage. Plus they have no IAS.
Conclusion?
When you need more meatshields and spreaded damage, take Signet of Spirits. When you want stronger, single target, take Signet of Ghostly Might.
Pony Slaystation
You could always bring one, and use Arcane Mimicry on a hero who has the other. More fun that way.
Personally, I prefer Signet of Spirits.
Personally, I prefer Signet of Spirits.
Zahr Dalsk
The bug was never a problem because casting Summon Spirits fixed their targeting.
SoS allows for better bar compression and a significantly higher damage rate than SoGM.
SoGM is pointless.
SoS allows for better bar compression and a significantly higher damage rate than SoGM.
SoGM is pointless.
Gill Halendt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
It is also used when you prefer "Quality over quantity" spirits. For example. Anguish whilst under SoGM deals a total off 58 dmg+IAS+Other spirits
This. Quality over quantity.
I prefer SoGM for most of my builds. Pain and Anguish are linked to Communing and I could never do without them. Those work great with SoGM. Add Vampirism - which only benefits from the increased attack speed of SoGM, but not the damage bonus, since its attacks are life stealing -, Armor of Unfeeling, Summon Spirits, and you're done. If you split your attribute points properly, you can even spend 10 or so in Channelling and bring Painful Bond. Sure, that takes more slots in your skillbar than SoS, but the final result is better. Quality over Quantity.
IMO, SoS makes sense only if:
- You also bring other offensive spirits along, you devote your whole skillbar to spirit spamming, and SoS is an addition to that bar. Then, when you're able to summon up to 8 spirits, the arguments in favour of Quality over Quantity become a little weak... Most of the offensive spirits bar Bloodsong are linked to Communing tough.
- You're not spamming through and through, so you can use the rest of the skillbar for other stuff, while still spamming a little bit.
Up to you really, try them both and find out which one you like best. As far as I'm concerned, I love SoGM and I tend to equip Razah with SoS instead, since SoS is easier for the hero AI to manage, the short recharge time compensates the lack of mobility (heroes can't use Summon Spirits!) and his Channelling bar also couples well with my Communing bar: this way I can have both, Quality AND Quantity...
I prefer SoGM for most of my builds. Pain and Anguish are linked to Communing and I could never do without them. Those work great with SoGM. Add Vampirism - which only benefits from the increased attack speed of SoGM, but not the damage bonus, since its attacks are life stealing -, Armor of Unfeeling, Summon Spirits, and you're done. If you split your attribute points properly, you can even spend 10 or so in Channelling and bring Painful Bond. Sure, that takes more slots in your skillbar than SoS, but the final result is better. Quality over Quantity.
IMO, SoS makes sense only if:
- You also bring other offensive spirits along, you devote your whole skillbar to spirit spamming, and SoS is an addition to that bar. Then, when you're able to summon up to 8 spirits, the arguments in favour of Quality over Quantity become a little weak... Most of the offensive spirits bar Bloodsong are linked to Communing tough.
- You're not spamming through and through, so you can use the rest of the skillbar for other stuff, while still spamming a little bit.
Up to you really, try them both and find out which one you like best. As far as I'm concerned, I love SoGM and I tend to equip Razah with SoS instead, since SoS is easier for the hero AI to manage, the short recharge time compensates the lack of mobility (heroes can't use Summon Spirits!) and his Channelling bar also couples well with my Communing bar: this way I can have both, Quality AND Quantity...
Spiritweaver
Signet of Spirits.
7 Spirits + Painful Bond is win.
Signet of Spirits is no longer bugged they fixed it with the last update.
I normally run this and it's a fairly popular build aswell.
7 Spirits + Painful Bond is win.
Signet of Spirits is no longer bugged they fixed it with the last update.
I normally run this and it's a fairly popular build aswell.
Hugh Manatee
^I pretty much run that but without the communing stuff(pve stuff instead like skippy the wonder sin or pain inverter), and more spawning stuff like spirits gift.
With 16 channeling you get blood song, vampirism, the 3 pain clones(they're actually a couple points stronger then pain) and if you can squeeze it in, Gaze of Fury(with SoS recharging every 20 seconds replacing one you gaze is no issue, and you might destroy an enemy spirit with it), though I take either an asuran summon or skippy the wonder sin. You get a tweaked out painful bond and bottomless energy from siphon spirit, in 1 attribute. Then you add in your spawning, your spawning skills like spirits gift, the stuff that interacts with spirits and SoGM doesn't match up.
With 16 channeling you get blood song, vampirism, the 3 pain clones(they're actually a couple points stronger then pain) and if you can squeeze it in, Gaze of Fury(with SoS recharging every 20 seconds replacing one you gaze is no issue, and you might destroy an enemy spirit with it), though I take either an asuran summon or skippy the wonder sin. You get a tweaked out painful bond and bottomless energy from siphon spirit, in 1 attribute. Then you add in your spawning, your spawning skills like spirits gift, the stuff that interacts with spirits and SoGM doesn't match up.
Zahr Dalsk
upier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony Slaystation
You could always bring one, and use Arcane Mimicry on a hero who has the other. More fun that way.
And a waste of a skill slot, potentially even the elite slot. If your hero runs it, you will trash his version by summoning yours.
Also, I don't see the fascination with Spawning in some of the builds posted here.
Also, I don't see the fascination with Spawning in some of the builds posted here.
Lishy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Gill Halendt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
IMO, SoS makes sense only if:
- You also bring other offensive spirits along, you devote your whole skillbar to spirit spamming, and SoS is an addition to that bar. Then, when you're able to summon up to 8 spirits, the arguments in favour of Quality over Quantity become a little weak... So, we're comparing elite skills here, not bars... If you bring more binding rituals, half a dozen spirits can be better in a lot of situations - even though it's not that obvious to me, SoGM offers a precious increase in both damage and attack speed, which I'd still prefer over 4 more spirits with no real peculiarity. Since most of the offensive spirits are linked to Communing, you'll need to split your attribute points in a less favourable way and bar compression is gone anyway.
- You also bring other offensive spirits along, you devote your whole skillbar to spirit spamming, and SoS is an addition to that bar. Then, when you're able to summon up to 8 spirits, the arguments in favour of Quality over Quantity become a little weak... So, we're comparing elite skills here, not bars... If you bring more binding rituals, half a dozen spirits can be better in a lot of situations - even though it's not that obvious to me, SoGM offers a precious increase in both damage and attack speed, which I'd still prefer over 4 more spirits with no real peculiarity. Since most of the offensive spirits are linked to Communing, you'll need to split your attribute points in a less favourable way and bar compression is gone anyway.
Betrayer of Wind
upier
spirit of defeat
It depends on your attributes.
SOGM is only effective when bringing Anguish and PB.
Therefore you also need to invest in channeling. which lowers your communing.
My solution:
human brings the communing skills and Pve skills -->SOGM
Hero takes the channeling skills --> SOS
SOGM is only effective when bringing Anguish and PB.
Therefore you also need to invest in channeling. which lowers your communing.
My solution:
human brings the communing skills and Pve skills -->SOGM
Hero takes the channeling skills --> SOS
Lhim
SoS is in channeling and 14+ Splinter Weapon is always nice. And with SoS you only need channeling, freeing up attribute points for whatever you want to bring along. I usually only invest heavily into Spawning Power if I take Great Dwarf Weapon with me.
So, the good thing about SoS is that it gives more bar compression, which allows you to bring other neat stuff. With SoGM there will be less room for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by upier
So, the good thing about SoS is that it gives more bar compression, which allows you to bring other neat stuff. With SoGM there will be less room for that.
Quote:
(Khmm, if one Google-image's "d'oh" - the 7th hit is MY post at GWO where I bitch about the mesmer's armour clipping issues ... Or does that work only for me?)
It shows as my 7th "d'oh" hit as well
snaek
just quickly working out some numbers, results may not be accurate to actual gameplay situations...
7 spirit sos (sos+pain+anguish+bloodsong+vampirism) 13 channeling, 12 communing,
28+28+28+25+17+22+20 = 168 dmg every 2 seconds = 84 dps
7 spirit sos + painful bond
167 + 17 + 8 x 18 = 329 dmg every 2 seconds = 164.5 dps
----
4 spirit sogm (pain+anguish+disenchantment+vampirism) 14 communing
(28+10)+(19+10)+(19+10)+20 = 116 dmg every 1.34 seconds = 86.6 dps
4 spirit sogm + painful bond (pain+anguish+bloodsong+vampirism) 13 communing, 12 channeling
(27+10)+2(18+10)+21+20+(4x18) = 206 dmg every 1.34 seconds = 153.7 dps
notes:
*these bars use only 7 slots + 1 optional, the sogm would probably greatly benefit from another spirit inching over the sos build's dmg
*and yes i know bloodsong and vampirism have different attack speeds, but im too lazy to do seperate calculations
----
the numbers are very close, but ima have to give the edge to sos, due to having more spirits and therefore more tanking ability. the only reason i'd use sogm imo, is when you already have an sos and want to run double spirit spam.
7 spirit sos (sos+pain+anguish+bloodsong+vampirism) 13 channeling, 12 communing,
28+28+28+25+17+22+20 = 168 dmg every 2 seconds = 84 dps
7 spirit sos + painful bond
167 + 17 + 8 x 18 = 329 dmg every 2 seconds = 164.5 dps
----
4 spirit sogm (pain+anguish+disenchantment+vampirism) 14 communing
(28+10)+(19+10)+(19+10)+20 = 116 dmg every 1.34 seconds = 86.6 dps
4 spirit sogm + painful bond (pain+anguish+bloodsong+vampirism) 13 communing, 12 channeling
(27+10)+2(18+10)+21+20+(4x18) = 206 dmg every 1.34 seconds = 153.7 dps
notes:
*these bars use only 7 slots + 1 optional, the sogm would probably greatly benefit from another spirit inching over the sos build's dmg
*and yes i know bloodsong and vampirism have different attack speeds, but im too lazy to do seperate calculations
----
the numbers are very close, but ima have to give the edge to sos, due to having more spirits and therefore more tanking ability. the only reason i'd use sogm imo, is when you already have an sos and want to run double spirit spam.
Lishy
A good team usually has the majority of enemies in a mob hexed with things like meekness. There for, doubling Anguish, with SoGM applying, adding all up to 58 dmg
Swap out vampirism for shadowsong as well since vampirism has no inherit and its dmg is bawlz compared to shadowsong
Also, take into account the IAS.
Swap out vampirism for shadowsong as well since vampirism has no inherit and its dmg is bawlz compared to shadowsong
Also, take into account the IAS.
Spiritweaver
Quote:
Originally Posted by upier
Also, I don't see the fascination with Spawning in some of the builds posted here.
What's wrong with making your spirits last longer?
Lhim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritweaver
What's wrong with making your spirits last longer?
Spawning Power increases spirit's health, not duration. So with Summon Spirits on your bar and the relatively short recharge of offensive spirits, Spawning Power is a waste of attribute points. Better to max out channeling/communing/whatever you're using.
Painbringer
SOS is greater IMO
3 sprits that do decient damage and are respamable fodder every 20 seconds
Plugging holes and keeping the melee away from casters
3 sprits that do decient damage and are respamable fodder every 20 seconds
Plugging holes and keeping the melee away from casters
Hugh Manatee
I use the spawning stuff in conjunction with SoS, used to be the problem with stuff like spirits gift ect was it took 3 seconds minimum to get the effect, or you had to destroy something you spent 3 seconds summoning, now, with 3 spirits in 1 sec every 20 seconds, the spawning stuff, like rupture, spirits gift+feast of souls, spirit to flesh ect are sooooo much stronger. I'd rather have 1 or 2 of those utility skills in a spawning/channeling bar then fill in with underpowered communing stuff.
VinnyRidira
I run SoS agony bloodsong vampirism, I use two heroes one wanderlust + earth bind and the other SoGM pain shadowsong and anguish. This trio is awesome as I also use painful bond and the numbers fly to high heaven.
Ccat
SoS is one of the best elites in the game. Not only does it create three meat shields, it also deals high armor ignoring damage. Anything that remotely synergises with it often has a huge effect, too (FoS, PBond, BoC, etc).
Despite this I still prefer SoGM. You have to admire Anguish doing ~60 dmg a hit combined with the IAS. I came to it first and I just naturally like it better, though it's a bit flawy.
If you're deciding between the two, don't bother. It's worth taking both, putting in one on a hero.
Despite this I still prefer SoGM. You have to admire Anguish doing ~60 dmg a hit combined with the IAS. I came to it first and I just naturally like it better, though it's a bit flawy.
If you're deciding between the two, don't bother. It's worth taking both, putting in one on a hero.
Axel Zinfandel
Besides the Spirit Spamming arguement, SoS is very useful for niche builds for energy management and fodder
That being arguably one of the best Rit Healer builds I can come up with. Signet of Spirits is overall a better elite skill to cap in general because it isn't limited to just spirit spamming
The math has been stated, although I don't know how accurate, but I think SoS adds up to be more DPS, but even if it's a bit lower.. what is better.. slightly lower DPS and 3 more meat(lolghosts) shields, or slightly higher DPS?
That being arguably one of the best Rit Healer builds I can come up with. Signet of Spirits is overall a better elite skill to cap in general because it isn't limited to just spirit spamming
The math has been stated, although I don't know how accurate, but I think SoS adds up to be more DPS, but even if it's a bit lower.. what is better.. slightly lower DPS and 3 more meat(lolghosts) shields, or slightly higher DPS?
Tenebrae
SoGM would be awesome if all allied spirits would be affected ..... but they are not so , SoS wins imo
Silmar Alech
It is probably very easy to compare Spirit Spammer builds by testing them on the Isle of the Nameless with the Master of Damage. With these 7-spirit SoS builds you can do 128dps solo over the full 180s. What is the rate with the builds that use SogM?
(channeling=11+1+2, communing=11+2, spawning=8+1)
(channeling=11+1+2, communing=11+2, spawning=8+1)
Celtus
signet of spirits is the most overpowered pve/pvp skill split ever, why wouldnt you take advantage of the 3 free spirits ? use with skills that synergize with spirits for even more lame overpoweredness - ex: siphon spirit + sig is infinite energy, mend body and soul with sig of spirits - remove 3 conditions from ally every time u cast.. etc. pve stuff is so overpowered.
Chthon
Zahr Dalsk
reaper with no name
Holy mother of donkey ****ers, we agree on something!
Celtus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
No, Ether Renewal is the most overpowered ever. But SoS is no doubt overpowered.
forgot about that one..i dont pve much. either way, the pve versions of these 2 skills would fit right in on one of those april fool's day joke updates..
such a power creep from early prophecies days to present..
such a power creep from early prophecies days to present..
Perfected Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtus
pve stuff is so overpowered.
such a power creep from early prophecies days to present.. There was no HM back then.
such a power creep from early prophecies days to present.. There was no HM back then.
Celtus
Lhim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtus
true.
but, if it truly was "hard mode" they should be forced to use normal balanced skills.. instead of adding all these godmode skills into game to make HM less hard, lol. I wouldn't call SoS a godmode skill by far. You should head over to one of the numerous SF threads.
but, if it truly was "hard mode" they should be forced to use normal balanced skills.. instead of adding all these godmode skills into game to make HM less hard, lol. I wouldn't call SoS a godmode skill by far. You should head over to one of the numerous SF threads.