agreed with above. however, the simple fix is to fix the balancing bugs (as in, kurzicks being naturally better in an arena), so there will be equal numbers on both sides again.
remember, AB doesn't particularly need a lot of players, just enough to form up 12 people on each side for the games to continue.
The AB maps never change - admin help needed
moriz
Jetdoc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Esprit
Kurzick Controlled Alliance Battle Map
1. Long waits. |
Premium Unleaded
I would have thought that long waiting times on the Kurzick side was due to a relative lack of Luxon players.
moriz
that's no longer the case. at peak times, it's typically the other way around, even on kurzick maps.
Sankt Hallvard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by moriz
that's no longer the case. at peak times, it's typically the other way around, even on kurzick maps.
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That's how it was last time I played and that's how it's always been.
Martin Alvito
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
Why not have your Alliance gather enough people (plus a few stragglers) to instaneously enter an AB battle and have a decided advantage on the ability to win? The long waits argument is something that's entirely within the control of the Kurzick side.
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1) The alliance contains twelve people that want to AB on the Kurzick side at any given time.
2) A request sent to the alliance will return players that are not made of fail.
Since AB is inefficient on home maps, it would seem likely that the hypothetical alliance group, if formed, would be unskilled. If there's one thing that is less fun than not being able to play, it is repeatedly losing alongside players that refuse to learn from their mistakes.
doomfodder
As many of the posters in this thread have noted, the AB line location is resides most frequently on the Kurz side because of the "lower quality Kurz players" are playing AB while the "higher quality kurz players" are busy in some form of FFF (DTSC being the most common).
So what other incentive is there to play AB instead of FFF? Well most people would think that the incentive would be to attract players by offering higher Kurz/Lux faction rewards. But that will ONLY attract the KURZ/LUX title HUNTERS in the "higher quality kurz players", not everyone else that avaids AB. So,to redirect the "competion" from FFF opportunities, I'd recommend a secondary incentive: JUST BUFF THE BALTH FACTION REWARDS IN AB. Many of the title huters are after zkeys anyway, might as well give an opportunity to earn them since it's defintely a SELLER's market for zkeys atm...
So what other incentive is there to play AB instead of FFF? Well most people would think that the incentive would be to attract players by offering higher Kurz/Lux faction rewards. But that will ONLY attract the KURZ/LUX title HUNTERS in the "higher quality kurz players", not everyone else that avaids AB. So,to redirect the "competion" from FFF opportunities, I'd recommend a secondary incentive: JUST BUFF THE BALTH FACTION REWARDS IN AB. Many of the title huters are after zkeys anyway, might as well give an opportunity to earn them since it's defintely a SELLER's market for zkeys atm...
Esprit
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
Why not have your Alliance gather enough people (plus a few stragglers) to instaneously enter an AB battle and have a decided advantage on the ability to win? The long waits argument is something that's entirely within the control of the Kurzick side.
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Jade Quarry waits are just as long if not longer, but I do not have to try to get a group together and the rewards are better.
Esprit
I AB'd tonight for the first time in a month or two. Won a couple games then got destroyed the next few. I figured out why Kurzicks keep losing.
Luxons are bringing test GvG, HA, and TA builds to AB when the Kurzick side is typically a bunch of pugs with no synergistic builds. Mind Blast Distortion eles, Hammer warriors with vamp weapons, WoH Mo/W, and VoR and shutdown Mesmers are rampant on the Luxon side.
Honestly, kudos for Luxons on figuring out that this can destroy most Kurzick teams in a drawn out fight, but it is really not fun to play against. I hate GvG and HA and now that teams are bringing those builds to AB it's like mini HA and GvG battles in AB. Boring and not fun.
Luxons are treating AB like serious PvP or practice for HA and GvG, and it's no wonder most decent Kurzick players are playing elsewhere in FA or JQ, because with Luxons running those builds it's like bringing Debby Downer to a party, sucking all the fun out of it.
Luxons are bringing test GvG, HA, and TA builds to AB when the Kurzick side is typically a bunch of pugs with no synergistic builds. Mind Blast Distortion eles, Hammer warriors with vamp weapons, WoH Mo/W, and VoR and shutdown Mesmers are rampant on the Luxon side.
Honestly, kudos for Luxons on figuring out that this can destroy most Kurzick teams in a drawn out fight, but it is really not fun to play against. I hate GvG and HA and now that teams are bringing those builds to AB it's like mini HA and GvG battles in AB. Boring and not fun.
Luxons are treating AB like serious PvP or practice for HA and GvG, and it's no wonder most decent Kurzick players are playing elsewhere in FA or JQ, because with Luxons running those builds it's like bringing Debby Downer to a party, sucking all the fun out of it.
moriz
wouldn't the logical choice be to run the same builds, or bring whatever builds that can counter them?
personally, i enjoy the execution of builds more than running unique snowflake builds. maybe you just need a change of mindset.
personally, i enjoy the execution of builds more than running unique snowflake builds. maybe you just need a change of mindset.
refer
I think that they should allow any map to come up regardless of the faction line, but with a low probability. That way each side can can have map vareity, but the faction line will still control where most of the games are played.
And come on... can all the Kurzicks be in that forest!? They could say that a rogue attack on [random map besides the current one] was just discovered/reported and you need to defend it! Or that Kurzick communications have been intercepted and they found out that a small group of them are going to attack [random map besides the current one]. These are simple and realistic ideas. I think this would be a cool change.
More ideas: they would need to remove the loading screen image as to not spoil which map you would be getting before it starts. And to expand on my idea of random maps, it could be like this. (I'm bad at numbers tweaking, so maybe ignore those. I need examples). Highest number is where you are. < and > show the probability of other locations.
Saltspray: 2.5 < 5 < 85 > 5 > 2.5
K/L (using grenz): 9.5 < 70 > 9.5 > 7 > 4
K/L (using ancestral): 73 > 10 > 8 > 5 > 4
And come on... can all the Kurzicks be in that forest!? They could say that a rogue attack on [random map besides the current one] was just discovered/reported and you need to defend it! Or that Kurzick communications have been intercepted and they found out that a small group of them are going to attack [random map besides the current one]. These are simple and realistic ideas. I think this would be a cool change.
More ideas: they would need to remove the loading screen image as to not spoil which map you would be getting before it starts. And to expand on my idea of random maps, it could be like this. (I'm bad at numbers tweaking, so maybe ignore those. I need examples). Highest number is where you are. < and > show the probability of other locations.
Saltspray: 2.5 < 5 < 85 > 5 > 2.5
K/L (using grenz): 9.5 < 70 > 9.5 > 7 > 4
K/L (using ancestral): 73 > 10 > 8 > 5 > 4
Esprit
Quote:
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Originally Posted by moriz
wouldn't the logical choice be to run the same builds, or bring whatever builds that can counter them?
personally, i enjoy the execution of builds more than running unique snowflake builds. maybe you just need a change of mindset. |
Of course you can try to make counter builds, but I can do that in HA and GvG if I really wanted to. And it's assuming you can convince your Alliance mates to run builds that they don't want to run or take the game serious.
shadows of hob
I know many good kurzick players, but they all do JQ. You are pretty stupid if you do not play JQ as a kurzick. Higher rewards, if you play well, you can pretty much win the game, in AB you can't and many more obvious reasons.
moriz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Esprit
That was the whole allure of Alliance Battles. It was PvP but not really PvP, it lacked the seriousness of GvG and HA, almost like casual PvP. People could group up with random people and still win, or you could bring an Alliance group together and have a loose fit of builds that typically consisted of a shrine capper and a healer and then whatever. You used to run up against similar groups, but not anymore really.
Of course you can try to make counter builds, but I can do that in HA and GvG if I really wanted to. And it's assuming you can convince your Alliance mates to run builds that they don't want to run or take the game serious. |
a build can't make you play "serious". you control that yourself.
Aljasha
i guess, he means serious in the way of making sense. i don't count a ranger/ele spamming flare in ra or a vor monk/mesmer in fa towards serious builds.
as a kurzick who just wants to bridge the gap between coming home from work/doing important stuff and waiting for gvg, i often play some fa. it's a joke in comparison to gvg, but sometimes the fights are pretty exciting and even if you lose you still get like 1,2k faction as a reward.
also, i do like fa more than jq and ab because of its defense missions- and more player killing-oriented nature. the waiting times are ok and the numbers of leechers and leavers have been pretty low at european peaks in the last months.
removing other formats of allegiance battles in general wouldn't solve the problem. increasing the reward for losing would help (either balth-wise or faction-wise) and definately reworking some of the ab maps to get some variety into ab.
although fa and jq are considered a joke in the pvp community, as a player you still "feel" the presence of your opponent. in ab you can ignore that presence, whilst you can't in fa or jq.
as a kurzick who just wants to bridge the gap between coming home from work/doing important stuff and waiting for gvg, i often play some fa. it's a joke in comparison to gvg, but sometimes the fights are pretty exciting and even if you lose you still get like 1,2k faction as a reward.
also, i do like fa more than jq and ab because of its defense missions- and more player killing-oriented nature. the waiting times are ok and the numbers of leechers and leavers have been pretty low at european peaks in the last months.
removing other formats of allegiance battles in general wouldn't solve the problem. increasing the reward for losing would help (either balth-wise or faction-wise) and definately reworking some of the ab maps to get some variety into ab.
although fa and jq are considered a joke in the pvp community, as a player you still "feel" the presence of your opponent. in ab you can ignore that presence, whilst you can't in fa or jq.
Esprit
Quote:
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Originally Posted by moriz
a build can't make you play "serious". you control that yourself. |
moriz
only if those people actually created those builds specifically for AB. if they just copy it off of obs mode, then it doesn't take any effort, and therefore isn't "serious" by your own definition.
serious is an attitude. there's no such thing as "serious" builds; only good builds and bad builds. "serious" should only be used to describe the player. a "serious" player constantly strives to improve, to eek out that extra bit of advantage. a "serious" player can even make a mending wammo dangerous. a "casual" player won't do any of that. you can give such a player the best build in the world, and he still won't be as dangerous.
it's all in the attitude. if you cannot compete with the "serious" players, don't blame your build. blame your attitude.
serious is an attitude. there's no such thing as "serious" builds; only good builds and bad builds. "serious" should only be used to describe the player. a "serious" player constantly strives to improve, to eek out that extra bit of advantage. a "serious" player can even make a mending wammo dangerous. a "casual" player won't do any of that. you can give such a player the best build in the world, and he still won't be as dangerous.
it's all in the attitude. if you cannot compete with the "serious" players, don't blame your build. blame your attitude.
cebalrai
This still needs admin/dev help. The map is Ancestral 70% of the time and Grenz 30% of the time...
Are there any devs or maybe Regina present on this forum for comment?
Thanks.
Are there any devs or maybe Regina present on this forum for comment?
Thanks.
Zahr Dalsk
Simply put: JQ is a far better option. Every luxon who plays there is either mentally retarded, a bot, or (rarely) just plain bad at Guild Wars. Meaning it's pretty much guaranteed wins (barring the rare occasions when we get an equally bad team on the Kurzick time, which happens about once every five matches or so, and still offers a good chance of winning).
JQ is, presently, an excellent way of getting Kurzick faction. Thus we're not bothering with AB
I can state for a fact that Kurzick armour is more popular. Not just because it's seen far more often (barely anyone wears luxon armour, whereas Kurzick armour is one of the most popular armour lines) but also because the cost of Amber at an RMT is distinctly higher, and has been for years.
JQ is, presently, an excellent way of getting Kurzick faction. Thus we're not bothering with AB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Risus
The fact that Kurzicks are stuck is no suprise, as the more advanced players tend to sway Luxon because the better armor skins, the much more easily navigatable areas, etc.
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own age myname
It's just that FA/JQ are far better choices. I'm luxon, and when I do play some pvp for some faction, I do FA. I win most of the time, and even if I lose it's better then AB.
But, I mostly stick to MQSC for my faction needs.
But, I mostly stick to MQSC for my faction needs.
Zahr Dalsk
Speaking of which, I need to learn how to do DTSC some time.
zelgadissan
If you're wanting to do questionable levels of PvP for your faction, Kurzicks have obvious advantages in both FA and JQ. Why wouldn't they play there? Similarly, Luxons have obvious disadvantages in FA and JQ (especially with bots in JQ), so why wouldn't they play AB?
Agreed with Zahr about armors as well.
Agreed with Zahr about armors as well.
Eragon Zarroc
it is kinda crappy that the kurzicks suck so bad >_< maybe bigger advantages could be given oon the deeper maps to the hometeam? idk
Sifow Chan
They need to make AB reward more faction than FA/JQ. I thought AB was supposed to be the mainstream battling between the Luxon and Kurzicks? Pretty stupid how the competitive missions give more.
madriel222
It's been said, but the rewards for AB need to be comparable to the rewards in JQ/FA if AB is ever going to get competitive again.
cebalrai
The map is even having a hard time getting to Grenz now... It's 90+% Ancestral.
AB is broken... Plz even out the faction reward or even better - just make the maps random!!!
Where's Regina?
AB is broken... Plz even out the faction reward or even better - just make the maps random!!!
Where's Regina?
zelgadissan
Why do you keep asking for Regina? She's CR, to the best of my knowledge all she could do is mention it to the devs/Live Team.
Anyway, here's what makes me think AB is going to get neglected in this big update:
Basically, they have over a dozen things they'd like to do, but AB wasn't even on their short list, plus they said it'd probably be even less by the time the update actually hits. In good news, they mentioned FA and JQ fixes, so hopefully they will be evened out to where it's not just instant Kurzick wins (well, at least JQ) - maybe some Kurzicks will head back to AB, and maybe some Luxons will head to FA and JQ.
Anyway, here's what makes me think AB is going to get neglected in this big update:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Linsey's big journal update
Right now, we have a list of over a dozen projects that we'd like to put into this build, though I expect this list to shrink considerably as we get closer to lockdown.
The Henchmen Project PvP Skins GvG Tiebreaker New Schedule for Automated Tournaments Bug Fixes for Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry The Hall of Heroes Syncing Random |
Short
Nerf faction rewards for JQ and FA, not too much. But less than AB, I miss the days when the map was different every day. I hate Echovald so I never play anymore, so dark...
moriz
just quadruple the balthazar factions gained in AB. that alone will draw in enough players that the two sides equalize.
Giga_Gaia
I think another reason why AB is so neglected these days is because it's so heavily fixed towards ignoring other players and just nuke the npc shrines and move on to the next one. Really, where's the fun in that? If I wanted to run around destroying the pathetic AI, I could just go PvE. At least in JQ/FA you pretty much HAVE to kill each other in order to win.
moriz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia
I think another reason why AB is so neglected these days is because it's so heavily fixed towards ignoring other players and just nuke the npc shrines and move on to the next one. Really, where's the fun in that? If I wanted to run around destroying the pathetic AI, I could just go PvE. At least in JQ/FA you pretty much HAVE to kill each other in order to win.
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AB is a game of territorial control. you gain territory by nuking shrines and capping them. you deny territory from your opponents by defending shrines, or just flat out annihilating them. the second aspect can be very hard for the predominately PvE'er playerbase, so they usually ignore it completely.
but then, just because it is ignored, doesn't mean it is not important. running in circles and nuking npcs will generally give you a 50% win rate, depending on which map it is. doing both will greatly increase your win rate, assuming you can do it properly.
Martin Alvito
Quote:
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Originally Posted by moriz
just quadruple the balthazar factions gained in AB. that alone will draw in enough players that the two sides equalize.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by moriz
AB is a game of territorial control. you gain territory by nuking shrines and capping them. you deny territory from your opponents by defending shrines, or just flat out annihilating them. the second aspect can be very hard for the predominately PvE'er playerbase, so they usually ignore it completely.
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Long story short, you want to maximize the amount of time that your team (all 12 of them) has a numerical advantage while standing on shrines controlled by the opponent, and minimize the amount of time that your opponents are able to do this. If you can efficiently wipe opposing teams, this makes it easier for the other 8 people on the map to cap things. 20 seconds of dead, plus the long walk back out, plus the predictability of where the dead opponents will go confers a large advantage.
Fighting them at your own shrine improves the odds of successfully killing the opponent but increases the risks of failure, because you gave them a time advantage by retreating/staying put to fight at your shrine. If your team is capable, it's best to run out to meet the opponent rather than wait for them.
moriz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
And kill JQ and FA as dead as they were when Factions was released. Then the PvE-ers will complain about how they can't get Cartographer. (Not that anyone else would complain. I'm sure the current JQ players would be happy to AB for quadded-up faction.)
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Lexar
Instead of always increasing rewards and devaluating the title, how about reducing rewards for other factions related activities?
But that's only assuming that good players will come back to AB on the kurzick side. Nobody has been playing AB for the rewards for a long time. I think Luxons are simply better in general because they play more. Obviously this slowly escalated. Let me explain:
It's common knowledge there's more kurzicks than luxons overall. There always have to be AB's with both parties, so the waiting time on the kurzick side is longer, much longer. In the time it takes a luxon to play 10 matches a kurzick plays 6 or 7. (numbers are made up but dont change the point) Luxons simply get more practice. That's what caused the shift in the first place, and that's not going to change if the 'good kurzicks' come back to AB.
But that's only assuming that good players will come back to AB on the kurzick side. Nobody has been playing AB for the rewards for a long time. I think Luxons are simply better in general because they play more. Obviously this slowly escalated. Let me explain:
It's common knowledge there's more kurzicks than luxons overall. There always have to be AB's with both parties, so the waiting time on the kurzick side is longer, much longer. In the time it takes a luxon to play 10 matches a kurzick plays 6 or 7. (numbers are made up but dont change the point) Luxons simply get more practice. That's what caused the shift in the first place, and that's not going to change if the 'good kurzicks' come back to AB.
xenosagafreak
The title was devalued from the beginning with the abusing of HFFF.
The argument that "practice" makes one side better is flawed. There are only _two_ predominantly played maps, so it's not exactly rocket science to know where to go after a couple of games.
The only reason why Lux wins is because the higher difficulty of fighting on AL from their side (with the corresponding underdog bonus) attracts higher level players. In the rare instances where map lands on Etnaran or Kaanai, the Kurzick population shrinks because they know that they won't be able to win with randomway or capway. Correspondingly, the premise that kurzicks are fighting on a map tilted in their favor draws the scrubs.
A simple buff to rewards on the AB end of things is all that's neccessary to revive this format. I mean, seriously, even on AB event days, you can still see kurzicks crying about long wait times in JQ. That's a clear sign that it's the lack of rewards that are failing to draw players.
The argument that "practice" makes one side better is flawed. There are only _two_ predominantly played maps, so it's not exactly rocket science to know where to go after a couple of games.
The only reason why Lux wins is because the higher difficulty of fighting on AL from their side (with the corresponding underdog bonus) attracts higher level players. In the rare instances where map lands on Etnaran or Kaanai, the Kurzick population shrinks because they know that they won't be able to win with randomway or capway. Correspondingly, the premise that kurzicks are fighting on a map tilted in their favor draws the scrubs.
A simple buff to rewards on the AB end of things is all that's neccessary to revive this format. I mean, seriously, even on AB event days, you can still see kurzicks crying about long wait times in JQ. That's a clear sign that it's the lack of rewards that are failing to draw players.
N1ghtstalker
just put in a map rotation
one map = 1 hour
one map = 1 hour
Martin Alvito
Quote:
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Originally Posted by moriz
i was talking about quadrupling balthazar faction gain only. those who wants to max out there allegiance titles as quickly as possible would still go for JQ/FA, or speedclears anyways.
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It still wouldn't be worth players' time to farm Balth even with quadded up AB Balth faction. You'd make a couple zkeys an hour, but PvE alternatives would still be more efficient. I'm not sure where people would substitute from on the PvP side just to get Balth faction.
cebalrai
There are some good ideas on this thread. I just hope devs check them out.
And btw I was asking for Regina b/c she can mention things to the live team.
C'mon devs, could the loyal AB community get a little help here plz. AB is really broken right now
And btw I was asking for Regina b/c she can mention things to the live team.
C'mon devs, could the loyal AB community get a little help here plz. AB is really broken right now
erk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cebalrai
This needs attention still, bad. The map is ancestral 2/3 of the time and grenz 1/3, and it's getting worse.
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Adriaanz#Shiro
While it is true that the maps are mostly Saltspray, Grenz and Ancestral, I highly disagree with the 'luxons being superior'.
The last 3 weeks, I've played every morning, and getting like 12 victories straight, and maybe 1 loss. In the kurzick outposts, there are alot of groups waiting, and when I ask a friend to check out the luxon outpost, it is almost empty. (this is around 12 A.M. GMT+1 until 4 P.M. GMT+1).
The last 3 weeks, I've played every morning, and getting like 12 victories straight, and maybe 1 loss. In the kurzick outposts, there are alot of groups waiting, and when I ask a friend to check out the luxon outpost, it is almost empty. (this is around 12 A.M. GMT+1 until 4 P.M. GMT+1).