Assassin Skill Change Ideas

Here's a list of things I'd like to see changed for sins. None of these should be game-breaking, and will allow the Assassin as a primary class be useful on splits, once again. The focus of these changes is to bring Assassins into play for PvP - no consideration was made for PvE.

All damage numbers are around what should be 12-14 in the attribute if the range is not specified. All teleports if not mentioned below will have no Aftercast and fails if Crit Strikes < 4.

E=Energy, R=Recharge, C=Activation Time/Cast Time

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Black Lotus Strike: Offhand Attack 5E, 8R. You gain +5 Energy. Deals +30 damage. Must strike a hexed foe. (No other req)

The main change in this is to revert it back from being a lead attack to being an offhand attack that does not require a lead attack to precede it. This was a key skill in many combos and was never overpowered itself.
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[E] Fox's Promise: Enchantment. 5E, 1/2C,15R. For 15 seconds you're dagger attacks can not be blocked.

This elite is currently seeing no use. It's inherent downside is not necessary, and a decreased cast time will make it actually viable to maintain and better than just using Exposed Defenses.
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[E] Locust's Fury: Enchantment. 5E, 1/2C, 10R. For 10 seconds your attacks have a +50% chance to double attack.

This skill still isn't worth bringing, buffing it by reducing the cast time and energy cost will make it more user friendly.
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[E] Way of the Assassin: Stance. 5E, 12R. For 0...9 seconds you attack 33% faster while wielding daggers.

The critical % was removed so that the attack speed can be a constant 33%. This is much more appealing to use than the current way it is, seeing as you can easily go warrior secondary in order to have an IAS.
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Unsuspecting Strike: Lead Attack. 5E, 2R. Deals +30 damage. Deals +20 more damage if target has over 90% health.

Traded energy cost for less damage. It is now harder to spike out characters with 100+ damage in one attack.
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Blades of Steel: Dual Attack. 5E, 8R. Deals +15 damage (Maximum 50) for each recharging Dagger Attack Skill.

Nerfed the damage cap from 60 to 50 in order to bring this skill in line with other dual attacks' damage.
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Death Blossom: Dual Attack. 5E, 8R. Deals +30 damage to target. Deals an additional +20 damage to target foe and adjacent foes if target was enchanted. Must follow Offhand.

Increased recharge to make it less spamable and abusable by R/A's. Deals damage comparable to Blades of Steel if target is enchanted with the added bonus of AoE in that situation. This is in balance with Blades of Steel and someone could easily take either one. This provides for more diversity in Assassin builds.
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Disrupting Stab: Lead Attack. 5E, 1/2C, 10R. Interrupt an action. If that action was a skill, it is disabled for 10 seconds.

As a base speed attack, it isn't that desirable to use as an interrupt. This will be for assassins what a d shot is to rangers. It gives the assassin utility and a counter against split defense if used with a teleport. Recharge increased to 10 to prevent spamming.
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Falling Lotus Strike: Offhand Attack. 5E, 8R. Deals +30 damage. You gain +8 energy. Must strike Knocked Down Foe.

Reduced recharge to allow it to be on the same timeline with Falling Spider. Reduced energy gain accordingly. This provides for smother assassin combos as the timing will allow it to be used more frequently with other 8R skills. Lowered damage by 5.
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Fox Fangs: Offhand Attack. 5E, 1/2C, 3R. Deals +25 damage. Unblockable. You lose your current stance. Must follow Lead.

Ending your stance with this attack will help mitigate abuse of this skill when used with an IAS such as Lightning Reflexes or a block stance such as Escape.
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Golden Fang Strike: Offhand Attack. 5E, 4R. Deals +20 damage. Inflicts Deep Wound if you are enchanted. Must follow Lead.

This skill shouldn't be useless without an enchantment, the enchantment should just provide a major benefit to using the skill. The added damage will bring it more inline with other offhand attacks. This will provide for more diverse assassin combos.
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Golden Lotus Strike: Lead Attack. 5E, 5R. Deals +30 Damage. Gain 8 energy if enchanted.

Again, this skill should have a use without an enchantment, benefiting a lot if you do have an enchantment.
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Golden Phoenix Strike: Offhand. 5E, 8R. Deals +35 damage if under the effects of an enchantment. (Does not fail if not enchanted). (No other req).

This skill shouldn't "miss" if you are not under the effects of an enchantment, just simply not deal any additional damage.
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[E] Golden Skull Strike: Offhand. 5E, 1/2C, 12R. Deals +35 damage. Causes dazed for 5 seconds if you are under the effects of an enchantment. Must follow Lead.

As an elite, it should be a good skill to bring. It is still good without an enchantment, but it benefits greatly if you do have an enchantment.
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Horns of the Ox: Dual Attack. 5E, 8R. Deals +15 damage. Causes knockdown if target is not adjacent to any of its allies.

Buffed damage a little bit and reduced the recharge a little. The current Horns is somewhat of a joke only used to continue the rest of a combo. The 8R will make it have better timing synergy with other skills.
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Jungle Strike: Offhand. 5E, 1/2C, 8R. Same description, yet fix the damage bug in this skill or revert to old description. Must follow Lead.

Currently will deal the base damage if not crippled, or only the bonus damage if crippled, but not both. It used to deal both, before it was AoE. It should be fixed. 8R puts it on the same timeline as the other attack skills.
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[E] Shattering Assault: Dual Attack. 5E, 4R. Deals +50 damage. Removes an enchantment. Unblockable if you are not under the effects of an enchantment. Must follow Offhand.

Allowing this skill to be blocked while enchanted prevents there from being too much synergy with Golden Fox Strike. Reduced the energy to 5 to bring it in line with Blades of Steel and Death Blossom.
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[E] Temple Strike: Offhand Attack. 5E, 12R. Deals +30 Damage. Causes knock-down if target is moving or attacking. (No req).

Currently we have two elite offhand attacks that cause Dazed. Having an elite "Golden Phoenix Strike" without the enchantment requirement and causes knockdown will be an interesting change. Will definitely provide for more diverse assassin combos and an alternative to using an elite shadow step.
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Trampling Ox: Dual Attack. 5E, 8R. Causes Knockdown. Deals +20 damage if target is crippled.

Swapped which effect was reliant on cripple. This prevents combos using this skill to not be completely reliant on a team not removing cripple, but significantly hurt if it is.
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Dark Prison: Hex. 10E, 1/4C, 20R. Shadow Step to target foe. Foe moves 33% slower for 0...4 seconds. No Aftercast. Fails if Crit Strikes < 4.

Lowered the recharge to bring it inline with other teleports.
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Exposed Defense: 10E, 1C, 20R. Same description.

Lowered recharge by 5 seconds to bring it on the same timeline as the teleports.
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Impale: 5e, 3/4C, 20R. Same description.

Increased the recharge and slightly lowered the cast time. It will feel a lot smother, yet still interruptable if used predictably.
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Shadow Fang: 10E, 1/4C, 30R. Same description. No Aftercast. Fails if Crit Strikes < 4.

Reduced recharge to 30 seconds to make it able to be used more frequently.
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[E] Shadow Prison: 5E, 1/4C, 20R. Same description. No Aftercast. Fails if Crit Strikes < 4.

Reduced Energy to make it better than Dark Prison. Recharge set back to 20 as it can no longer be used by warriors to spike with.
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[E] Beguiling Haze: 10E, 1/4C, 20R. Same description. No Aftercast. Fails if Crit Strikes < 4.

Slightly lowered the energy cost. This will be easier to combo with, without needing as many energy management attacks on ones bar.
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Death Charge: Enchantment 5E, 1/4C, 20R. Shadow Step to target foe. For 5 seconds you have +1...10 Health Regeneration if this foe has more health than you. No Aftercast. Fails if Crit Strikes < 4.

Having the health effect come in the form of an enchantment will create synergy with the "Golden" attack skills. Will encourage more aggressive splitting, when your health is lower than your opponent.
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[E] Shadow Form (PvP): 5E, 1C, 30R. For 5...20 seconds, you can not be the target of hexes and are immune to conditions. Disables all non-assassin skills for 10 seconds.

A split elite that makes it much easier to escape a base against a snarebot or cripshot. Will disable non-assassin skills to prevent abuse by Dervishes or flag runners of a different profession. Comparable to Aura of Displacement in usefulness in leaving a base. You can still be killed while under this enchantment or have it removed now.
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Shadow Refuge: Enchantment 5E, 1C, 8R. For 4 seconds you have +5...9...10 Health Regeneration and can not be inflicted with new conditions. Ends if you attack.

Shadow Refuge can now be used as a "pre-prot" against conditions, useful for engaging splits or escaping bases. Will not remove current conditions, just prevent the addition of new ones.
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[E] Aura Of Displacement: Enchantment. -1E Upkeep, 5E, 1/4C, 20R. Same description. No Aftercast. Fails if Crit Strikes < 4.

Reduced initial energy cost.
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Shadow Walk: Stance. 5E, 30R. For 30 Seconds... same description. No longer disables attack skills for 1 second. No Aftercast. Fails if Crit Strikes < 4.

The disables attack skills clause was added to stop warriors, it is not necessary now.
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[E] Wastrel's Collapse: Does not disable non-dagger attack skills. No Aftercast. Fails if Crit Strikes < 4.

If adding the Crit Strikes clause, you can remove the non-dagger attack clause. Provides for the possibility of Bulls Strike Sins.
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Most of these changes will increase the viability of new combos, allow for unused elites to see some game play or increase the mobility of the Assassin. The goal of this is not to create a combo that can instant-kill as easily as it once was able to.

I like all the teleports...especially the no aftercast part...

That isn't relevent, I wasn't asking for signatures.

However, why do you disagree with these changes? What skills in particular and why is it a bad thing for the game if these changes occur? Do you have any particular bias against Assassins or are your opinions grounded on logic?

tl;dr. but i did catch the elite bulls strike
its sexy

Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I'm not trying to degrade your efforts mate. But for instance,

This sounds like the old SP sin, which was nerfed for a reason. I said sounds like because Sp was used by wars too. In your case they can't though but still.. It's not so much about energy but rather about a 20 recharge hex which makes a foe move 66% slower and, for a sin, a perfect way to use highly sought after off hand and dual attacks.

I don't have much time, so I can't read all your post because I'm at work, the few I read made me think of those days when people whined about SP sins etc etc. They did so for a reason.

He's a warrior, of course he's not going to like these ideas ^^

I like them however. Nice to see not only you're opening up teleporting but also new combo variations and i have to say, good job

Hopefully Anet get it right next time and don't cause a 6 minute final.

I'd add "your stances are disabled for x...ys" to shadowsteps, being able to shadowstep without an aftercast and deal GREAT NUMBERS isn't good.

Yes, but im not biased as some. OP is OP, just as WE was and MB is right now for instance and as some of the suggestions here like SP.

Ofcourse you do.

You need to analyse why it was overpowered.

The reason it was overpowered: Blades of Steel dealing +120 Damage and hitting with daggers (about 30 each time for a +60) followed by a 1/4 second cast of Impale for +80 damage and Deep Wound (~100 damage). This all happened under Burst Of Aggression, compressing the Blade's hits into less than 3/4th second.

So tl;dr: 120+60+80+100 = 360 damage in the course of 1 second is what made the old SP sin overpowered.

Instead of nerfing any of those two skills, they nerfed Black Lotus Strike to make the combo impossible. That just avoided the issue; Black Lotus was never an issue.

Granted, the old bar would become usable again with my suggested changes, I would suggest limiting the duration of Shadow Prison to 4 seconds at a high spec, and the nerf to Impale and Blades as suggested will prevent it from having as much damage as quickly. Under those conditions, it is much easier for monks to catch.

You do have good points there indeed, but also SP used to be 5e 1/4c 20r i believe, and now it's something like 10e 1/4c 25r and in this way it prevented other classes using it too(well, warriors did anyway).

Then again BoA was nerfed but you still have Flurry which works great for a sin still, because of the 7-17 damage range.

In a few words, with your suggestions, SP sin will come to play but won't be as devastating as it used to be right? But still the sin will spike in around 1.5 seconds with an IAS for a ton of damage, his attacks will most likely be unblockable from Expose Defences and decrease a foe's speed by 66%.

Lastly, Black Lotus Strike also helped Sp sins with energy management after casting Exposed Defences and SP. I believe that is why it was nerfed, otherwise they might have "Smiter's Booned" SP .

EDIT: I don't want to start an e-fight in any way, when i get home I'll read your post carefully. Let's see what other people have to say too.

EDIT2:
This actually seems cool!

Some of the things are ok,like golden skull strike.But I still want my temple strike,it's a generic shutdown,all it needs is a slightly lower recharge and energy cost.

Also your suggestions for all the elites are too tame,having their recharge time just about cover their duration is never a good idea.That said in PvE WoTA will still need see use and also with the current activation times on dagger skills there's no realy need for PvP,taking flurry for the parts you actually need and not wasting a leet skill.

lolol youre foxes is op

immune to hexes and conditions for 20 seconds long with a 30 recharge?
for pvp?
burn in hell
/notsigned

you'd just use your stance before your teleport then

How so? Being tied to Dagger Attack Skills only, being an elite, and taking up a crucial spot on your bar, it has little room for abuse. It isn't much better than the current Foxes', other than not having the clause "Ends if you miss".

Even buffed to that, you could just as easily take Golden Skull Strike for your dazed followed by Blinding Powder. In either case nobody actually uses this skill in PvP. If you change it, it would actually be a skill that you'd see a lot of people using.

Why? That statement is depending on what the effect is, allow me to show you by extremes: if it is Shadow Form in its current state: sure thats overpowered. If it is Healing Breeze, nobody complains. Therefore it can be a good idea sometimes. :3

Flurry isn't good for Assassins in PvP. I'll leave it at that. If you don't believe me, fine, but I know if the buff to WotA was made I would be taking it- frees up your secondary as well.


That's spec'd heavily into Shadow Arts. If you have 15 in Shadow Arts, and are using that as your elite, then I see no problem because the inherent downside is not having enough room for damage, or energy. It is easily stripped and you are not invincible to damage. Also you are limited to your Assassin skills, which limits your capabilities as well.

I'm a bit hesitant with trampling ox, it would make long combos much more easily accessible. Shadow form is a cool idea but I don't see it being used all that much, maybe lower duration and add a speed boost or lower further and potentially add a shadow step (would interact well with golden skills). Making shadow steps sin only and actually usable seems like the most needed change. The changes too most attack skills seem good but I'd still be hesitant with black lotus since it easily allows for dual heavy combos. Also buffing leaping mantis sting would be cool 4r and a little more damage would go a long way towards making lead>offhand>duals a bit more practical.

That point has been brought up on QQ forums as well, I understand how it could be a little much. Like I said, these are just some ideas, they could still use some tweaking. These are still better than the current state of assassins though.

If you start adding more to it, it looks like it could easily become broken and there would be no defense against sin's splitting into your base. Its more of a "OH SHIT" button that you hit when you're getting collapsed on and want a chance to get out.

Agreed.

Yeah thats a definite issue but I just don't see a defensive elite like that ever really getting any use on a non-gimmicky bar. A sins bar is so tight and its elite is so important that I don't see a sin being able to fit it, which is the issue with basically any non shadow step or attack skill sin elite. If it were to compress the bar in some way then maybe

Actually it is good because of the 7-17 damage range given by daggers. Your dps drops for like 3 damage compared to any other 33% IAS like Frenzy.

So you can just spam Flurry without worrying about a thing.

Then shadow stepping should cancel your current stance.

You need all the damage you can.

That would be very annoying but that would solve the problem I suppose. Then you'll see Weapon of Aggression being used though :3

Lol, you must be proposing it from the 'solo' perspective? Seriously most of the skills you have propose for a buff are quite powerful or good in their current state.

• BLS should stay as a lead attack, else it will give sins bar compression and adopt in some skills making the build overall stupidly overpowered with little player skill involved.
• The energy cost for Beguiling Haze and AOD can be easily recouped if you bring Critical Eye at 8 Critical Strikes.
• And why remove aftercast from Dark Prison? Activating Dash + Black Mantis Thrust too difficult?
• HOTO is quite lightweight on damage for a dual attack and it should stay that way since the criteria for KD is so easy to get. No sins will seriously consider this skill unless they are going for some silly 'insta-kill' 1-2-3 chain.
• Impale is fine, all the more better if it gets interrupted. They will learn to play better.
• I will accept Shadowfang's buff if the "return to original location" clause is removed.
• SA, Temple Strike, GSS: Lol? Why not give the sins an insta win button?
• Warriors will definitely love your new Death's Charge.
• Shadow Refuge: go A/Mo and take Restful Breeze. Brainless assassins already have Dark Escape and Feigned Neutrality to cover their inadequacy.
• Your proposal on Shadowwalk is full of win... /ends sarcasm. Elsewhere in TA...

Are you playing the same game as I am? There's a difference between competitive PvP and AB/"Competitive" Missions. Shadow Prison with "Dash + Black Mantis" doesn't cut it anymore. Crit strikes at 8 to recoup the energy from AoD and Beguiling Haze? Really? Cmon now.

Yes indeed, but you don't want to risk taking Frenzy on a 70 armor player, unless you have Dash. This way you have 2 slots taken.

By taking Flurry you do 2-3 less damage per attack, but your DPS is almost the same as if having Frenzy on, without any problems from double damage or the like and you got bar compression.

With the I-need-to-do-all-the-damage-I-can logic, you would equip Superior Dagger Runes too, but you don't, because +75 Health > extra DPS.

EDIT: When I say 2-3 damage less per attack, I do mean it. The -25% damage from Flurry applies to the normal damage, not the +damage from skills. In a few words you do 7-17 x 25 / 100 less damage(the "-" in the 7-17 is not a minus )

EDIT: Logic, not login. Stupid hands

Lol. So now you're telling me that that you targeting for HA and GvG with these buffs? I fail to see how these updates will 'spicen' up the current meta without it being further dumbed down than it already was. And half of the proposed skills are going to be exploited better by other professions than sins.

I really do have to agree on golden phoenix strike not requiring an enchant to hit. I can't say enough times I've had a heal or something else stripped from me and seeing my whole build become useless as result, plus the buff to one of those removes the enchant I have STACKED on top of it just in case I needed one to cover. Heck playing builds with this in Fort Aspenwood becomes pointless because of those @#$@% turtles!!

You don't need to take Frenzy - thats an unnecessary risk when Tiger's Stance is available.

I run all energy armor and sometimes a major rune without worrying too much, so yes I do follow that logic.

@EDIT: You don't need a constant IAS either, Tiger's Stance is better. You need all the damage you can get, which is why I use Vampiric Daggers against all targets (minus Warriors and Paragons). I also equip both Slashing Damage and Piercing Damage daggers in case I notice that my opponent is trying to spec against my damage type as most daggers are Piercing. You need all the damage you can possibly get.

I am, I don't know how that could have possibly been misunderstood. I don't see how other professions could abuse any of my skill changes seeing as they are almost all tied to daggers only, require critical strikes to work or require high spec into an assassin attribute to be any good. I appreciate the effort though.

Thats why I think that making it miss seems like an unnecessary down-side to the skill, and see no reason against buffing it :3

If just some of these ideas get used, I would be happy, not every idea is perfect but it is to be understood that it all needs tweaking. Balance is delicate and requires actually testing these skills as no matter how hard you look at it on paper- it will never beat actually testing it.

The problem with Tiger's Stance is the recharge. Which means you use TS when you are using a spike build with a 20 or so second cooldown. If for instance you are running a Palm Strike build, TS is not a good option. Well, it's a matter of preferance I guess, beauty is in the eye of the beholder now isn't it?

^ Don't bother speaking sensibly to him, for someone who thinks a 5e 4r +100 damage attack skill that removes 2 enchantment is balanced is clearly not right in the head or maybe a great pull off of a joke.

i agree with all of the OP's proposed changes. this is exactly the level of power assassins should have.

Looks good, but the only problems i have are with golden phoenix strike and trampling ox

Without an enchantment, an assassin should not still be able to get a free offhand, unless they bring an elite, so golden phoenix strike is fine the way it is.

Also, kd is much more powerful than +damage in my opinion, and trampling ox is fine the way it is.

Like what you did with shadow steps, good job

/unsigned.

Want to know why?

Because none of your suggestions seriously make assassins more skillful to play. Un-Nerfing those shadowsteps will simply bring back faceroll 1234567 bars.

The only good idea here is to change them all to crit strikes.

Bah! Dude, just use Glymp of Sacrifice+Mending and you're done!(No, Mending is not an enchantment., it's something..else)

Ye, like WE was or MB is right now. Good job mate

weak.

yes. or even more so

Sorry to say this, but it is apparent that you are biased mate.

you guys just dont want sins to kick more ass than they already do, which is understandable. on the other hand, true sins like me and the topic starter cannot get enough. MOOOOAR POWAAAAAAA!!!

Jesus Christ, your trolling physically hurts my brain.

wtf? you are a false. down with poseurs!

Unlike some people, I'm not biased and enjoy actual balance.

I've updated and cut some of the changes and made it easier to read/more precise:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb..._Balance_Ideas

4 Second recharge is a bit dumb on it; I realized it after reread it. 8 second recharge would be better and less spamable.

I cut trampling's change as it isn't that important. Golden Phoenix Strike dealing absolutely no +damage, costing 5 energy giving you a "free offhand" sounds fair if it will allow you to continue your combo. I just think its stupid that you're combo (generally relying on all over your skills not being failing/missing) should end because you don't have an enchantment when you use that skill. I think the downside should be just less damage- not just killing your entire combo.

There is absolutely no correlation between the aftercast on shadowsteps and "faceroll 1234567 bars". Anyone who has a keyboard can press buttons and deal damage (see: Mind Blast). The skill that is inherent in Assassins is the timing, target choice, positioning, field awareness and judging if one will succeed if they engage.

If you haven't played competitively (High end GvG), none of that makes any sense to you, but nevertheless there is a difference between a "good sin player" and a "bad sin player". Its quite obvious when in the context of GvG.

Is supposed to be spammable, R/As aren't abusing that, they're abusing the fact that they can spam 1/2 second attack skills continuously. They're better sins than sins are, which is why they are OP and need nerfed.

No, sins don't need a 'pre-prot' against conditions. They have "Assassin's Remedy", which works just fine.

Are you KIDDING ME! Combine with Deadly Paradox and you could maintain it constantly in PvE, leaving the sin to destroy mesmers/necros without some extra-class protection. No, you're retarded, go away.

And were you here when sins were just rolling people because they didn't have an aftercast on their shadow steps? It was the worst time to play in RA because it was assured that you would come across at least one of those builds every match and if you didn't have specific protections against it you were SCREWED. No, you're entire ideology here that sins need buffed is wrong. They're powerful enough as is, sure, some of their elites need looked at and fine tuned to make them more effective, but otherwise they're fine. Stop trying to make them into some Hyper-ninja-uber-deadly-lookIpwnedu bullshit.

Completely not signed.