Useless/OP Attribute Lines

Seeing how we are going to get smaller and smaller skill updates from now on, which attribute lines do you see as useless or dead, or way too overpowered, particularly to their primary class? These are the ones you'd really like anet try and either nerf one last time or breath a little life back into them before they give up on supporting the game at all and move their remaining members over to GW2.

I mean if the next skill change turns out to be the last "real" one ever, what would you like to see buffed a little?

On the other side, which skill lines do you think are too overpowered and would like to see nerfed a little?


Note I know nothing about when ANet is going to stop supporting GW and am just asking a hypothetical.

Tactics is garbage. A lot of the paragon shouts should have been tactics skills. Maybe in GW2.

Really depends if we are talking about PvP, since generally attribute lines are good in PvP, and terrible in PvE, and vice versa.

One thing I'd like to see made more viable, is the PBAoE dervish skills. They could be quite interesting, but the energy cost and cast time just isn't worth it. You are just as well off auto-attacking. Another change, which may be less popular, is I would like to see some, or all dervish enchantment removal changed to only dervish enchants...which would make self-removal much more viable rather than removing Prot Spirit that was just cast on you.

I like this idea. Would be especially cool if the same clause could apply to certain enchant removal skills. Take rip for example: Target loses 1 enchantment. If that foe has dervish enchantments, 1..2 of those are also removed.

Would make it possible to remove layered derv enchants, especially problematic skills like ebon dust aura while still justifying a long recharge on rip making active monk prots more viable.

I think shadow form needs to be buffed I mean only 20min uwsc? come on sf should make you run faster and do more dmg..... it should also increase drop rate and make all skills cast when under sf not lose agro... anything I missed? oh constant -4 degen to enemys in earshot and reduce dmg by 50 and +5 energy regen.... thats it.

For NOW!

Spawning Power, Tactics, and Motivation are very bad....also strength isn't that great either.

Expertise is very good as far as primary att's are concerned (maybe OP).

Interrupting in PvE as a human use to be pretty fun and a very helpful addition to a group. I think mesmers need something that can mass slow casting for hard mode and more AoE interruption (like Cry of Frustration) even if they do something other than damage. PvE split of course.

The blood attribute isn't so hot unless you're based around Blood is Power or have Blood Ritual along with Spiteful Spirit.

Deadly Arts is hard to work with anything. There's Assassin's Promise and the perma skill Deadly Paradox.

Nerfing of Shadow would be nice... Anet may see single player farming to be a new real way to play, but it doesn't work well for everyone in this Guild Wars. You either make a perma assassin or you're left out.

The question is whether we would want some of them buffed anyway. From a PvE standpoint (to a degree PvP aswell), Tactics doesn't fit in. Warriors are damage machines, and defensive attribute lines are never going to get any use. Perhaps it needs some skills to be blatantly overpowered. Anet seem to be pushing Healing Signet further and further up, but still no one uses it.

They aren't the only ones that use as tactics is great for castors.

Yeah, Tactics has lost much of its attraction for sure, unless its for specific solo'ing builds I dont even use it at all anymore.

However the defensive skills in tactics are often abused by other classes and had to be nerfed for good reason. Part of me is thinking put the ripostes into swords, put the rest of the skills into strength (with a few exceptions for the other weapon skills possible) and see where that leaves you before reworking anything. One change I could see is return +health to thrill of victory because scythes have victorious sweep now.

Of course right now warriors are fairly welled balanced compared to some other classes and I'm not sure I want to see tinkering that would screw them up big time.

Because those people are smart. I carried HS on my bar as an emergency heal of sorts back when WY wasn't nerfed. However after the nerf I got out of tactics for good and went to strength only. LC got buffed and I put more trust in my hero monks more. In PvP HS is bad because you are essentially putting a big "spike me" sign on (good for an occasional fake, but is it worth the skill slot?). In HM enemies hit harder and faster so unless you have PS up and a few other things, you'll probably end up losing more HP than you recover.

Taking double damage for a slow heal is counter-productive.

If I was desperate for a non-energy heal and I'm not in strength I'd put my points into healing for sig of rej. It's faster and it has no major downside. Plus I could bring VS for a little topping off ability, Patient Spirit if I'm not worried about energy, or cure hex if I'm going into hex-heavy territory. I'm not saying you should do any of those things, but I am saying for the points I'd rather have Sig of Rej.

Finally, why go tactics for one bad healing skill when you really aren't supposed to be healing yourself anyways?

You forget that it should also cancel out loot scaling. (for those who do their perma-sin thing solo)

Useless:
Fast Casting (For skills)
Tactics

OP:
EXPERTISE

for PvE wise anyway, FC is being less appealing to me - mindbender is such a proficient skill for increasing cast times, the att line just has lost its appeal in PvE IMO, but I understand how MB is not so popular, 1 of 3 PvE skills and takes up a slot on the bar, however FC requires investment into its line, depends really...

expertise is OP - but fun in PvE for spamming rupts etc. at minimal costs.

tactics needs a buff to not be useless, unless its some p/w using the tactics line whilst maximising leadership stuff

But Tactics doesn't have to be (and isn't) entirely defensive. And even if it is defensive, it should be similar to Paragons. party-wide buffs. Get rid of the 201 block stances that end on random condition X, make one generic stance, and make it end when you cast a spell to hinder it's usefulness for casters, and replace everything else with something useful.

For example, Shields Up! is a great example of what Tactics skills should look like. Watch Yourself! is also superb, before the armor nerf, and before SY! completely canceled it out. Fear Me also has potential (also potential to break PvP as we have seen).

Could even make one of the stances into an offensive stance to rival Flail, but more "Tactics-y".

Of course, just tweaking the numbers on the two dozen block stances isn't going to change much though.

The healing when you hit thrill of victory and you have more hp, should return. You can keep attacking and heal yourself at the same time, which is the most desired way for warriors to heal. This would give many players incentive to use tactics.

kill expertise

no.

killing expertise won't help because if this happens Rangers will be UP. if you change it to only lower energy cost on ranger skill you kill the toucher, the thumper ( well, not rly, but crushing blow isn't free). also, should I point out that Warriors work on adrenaline skills, so they dont need energy. dervishes run on energy skills, but have many enchantments to gain energy back. assassin runs on critical strikes to gain energy back. Paragons use shouts that affect party members in order to gain energy. rangers need expertise in order to pewpew. if you'd nerf expertise ( or remove it all ) then attack skills would have to be lowered in costs, after which I think A/R or W/R with bows will outbow any ranger because of higher crit rate, or added armor penetration ( I am speaking of WE bows ofcourse. )

needless to say that a ranger deals less damage than any other melee class unless the go conjure/brutal-glass arrows.

killing expertise wont solve stuff btw, it would only make the ranger an even weaker class.

who the h*ll uses traps the way they were supposed to be used? now you only see pure trappers ( which phail, unless you're farming ) or pure bows. which don't even deal that much damage.

nerfing escape was good, R/A with Escape was overpowered.

Healsig is used for self redbar between lord boat pushes. As such you will likely not be using it near anything with damage.

Blood is bad. Spawning Power is bad. Tactics and motivation are fairly bad. Beast Mastery is kinda gimmicky. Wind/Earth prayers are kinda bad. Shadow arts is mostly bad aside from steps and dark escape. Communing is bad. Strength has a crappy effect, but a decent amount of solid skills. Earth magic isn't great.

A lot of bad attributes, but to be completely honest, I don't miss them at all.

IMO the worst attribute lines are:

Leadership - pretty bad primary effect, albeit, it does have nice skills linked to it
Spawning power - needs a better primary effect, lack of good skills
Deadly Arts - pretty much the only time I see points put into this is for the Dancing daggers build
Blood magic - just a lot of bad or useless skills
Motivation - a lot of just plain bad skills here too
Smiting Prayers - skills are too weak or underpowered, they need to be buffed.