Hi,
I'm Canon, and i'm a PvPer (GvG specifically). The purpose of this post is to hopefully generate some feedback on what the Guild Wars player base (American player base in particular) feels like it needs to become more involved with GvGing. I know that I would have stopped playing Guild Wars a while ago if it weren't for the GvG arena, regardless of its arguably declining nature, and it's the only thing keeping me interested in playing. I know that waking up for and participating in a Monthly Automated Tournament is one of the best feelings I've ever experienced while playing a video game. I know that through GvGing I have also been fortunate enough to meet some really cool people and become a part of a community with a shared interest in GvGing, which, in my opinion, is a concept greater than that which most online games have to offer.
With this in mind, I have to then ask what is holding members of the Guild Wars community back from getting into the GvG scene. Of course, I have my own guesses for what the answers to this question would be, but I've never really asked anybody what's stopping them. Do people feel like it's too late to become a part of the GvG community? Are people really interested in GvGing but just don't have the resources or know any other players with a shared interest?
If there's anything I forgot to mention please let me know and feel free to add whatever you feel is necessary to your responses to help me better understand the answers to these questions.
Edit: I'm really hoping for answers from people who find themselves to be in the situation I have described above, not from those who are a part of the GvG community. However, I do appreciate your input as well.
Thanks!
GvG
Canon
moriz
the sheer logistical nightmare of getting:
-8 people from different part of the world
-getting those people to log on at the same time, consistently
-finding people that are likeminded, and similarly skilled
-and last of all, having those 8 people actually like each other
are the main deterrent of getting more people into gvg. it's the nature of the beast: the problem is the format itself.
-8 people from different part of the world
-getting those people to log on at the same time, consistently
-finding people that are likeminded, and similarly skilled
-and last of all, having those 8 people actually like each other
are the main deterrent of getting more people into gvg. it's the nature of the beast: the problem is the format itself.
Meridon
Perhaps it is the skill level.
I started playing 2 years ago. From that moment my goal has always been to get into GvG. Still, it took me over a year and a half of intensive playing (2000+ hours so far) to get anywhere up to decent skill. Having had to learn my way in PvE first, then grinding RA for a long time, until I finally got some skill.
After that, it still is a hard transition to GvG. The PvP layout is focusing more on getting people into HA than GvG. A basic route to follow is PvE -> Isle of the Nameless -> Zaishen Arenas -> Random Arenas -> Team Arenas -> Heroes' Ascent. GvG is rather hard to get into that way, as it requires the player to specifically move off this path and go for a GvG guild. Of course, one of the contributing factors to people not doing GvG is that HA offers much more straightforward rewards (end chest), which people from a normal background are familiar with from PvE. GvG on the other hand, has only very hard-to-get format-based player rewards: the Champion title, cape trims, and Tournament Reward Points (disregarding XTH). Simply put, non-dedicated GvG players can get more out of playing other formats such as HA, more easily.
You could view GvG as a niche format in that way. Yet, it's arguably the most competitive, skilled, and fun format in all of Guild Wars. The fact that pretty much all of the PvP skill balancing resolve around GvG, is what in my opinion keeps the format alive. The Live Team probably realizes this.
You can imagine that getting into GvG is even harder for those who are not specifically working towards it. In the end though, this means that only the most dedicated players are willing to have a go at GvG, which only is a positive thing for the GvG community.
I started playing 2 years ago. From that moment my goal has always been to get into GvG. Still, it took me over a year and a half of intensive playing (2000+ hours so far) to get anywhere up to decent skill. Having had to learn my way in PvE first, then grinding RA for a long time, until I finally got some skill.
After that, it still is a hard transition to GvG. The PvP layout is focusing more on getting people into HA than GvG. A basic route to follow is PvE -> Isle of the Nameless -> Zaishen Arenas -> Random Arenas -> Team Arenas -> Heroes' Ascent. GvG is rather hard to get into that way, as it requires the player to specifically move off this path and go for a GvG guild. Of course, one of the contributing factors to people not doing GvG is that HA offers much more straightforward rewards (end chest), which people from a normal background are familiar with from PvE. GvG on the other hand, has only very hard-to-get format-based player rewards: the Champion title, cape trims, and Tournament Reward Points (disregarding XTH). Simply put, non-dedicated GvG players can get more out of playing other formats such as HA, more easily.
You could view GvG as a niche format in that way. Yet, it's arguably the most competitive, skilled, and fun format in all of Guild Wars. The fact that pretty much all of the PvP skill balancing resolve around GvG, is what in my opinion keeps the format alive. The Live Team probably realizes this.
You can imagine that getting into GvG is even harder for those who are not specifically working towards it. In the end though, this means that only the most dedicated players are willing to have a go at GvG, which only is a positive thing for the GvG community.
dr love
1. I like farming, running pve stuff for people 
2. If not that, I'm in HA
3. Then once in a while I do GvG
edit: on reading another post, I have found similar results. there are a lot of smurf guilds, and top players 'smurfing' for low rank guilds, that an inexperienced GvG team (even if the players are decent in other forms of pvp) will face many difficult teams at all rank levels.
2. If not that, I'm in HA
3. Then once in a while I do GvG
edit: on reading another post, I have found similar results. there are a lot of smurf guilds, and top players 'smurfing' for low rank guilds, that an inexperienced GvG team (even if the players are decent in other forms of pvp) will face many difficult teams at all rank levels.
Ravi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Meridon
Perhaps it is the skill level.
I started playing 2 years ago. From that moment my goal has always been to get into GvG. Still, it took me over a year and a half of intensive playing (2000+ hours so far) to get anywhere up to decent skill. Having had to learn my way in PvE first, then grinding RA for a long time, until I finally got some skill. After that, it still is a hard transition to GvG. The PvP layout is focusing more on getting people into HA than GvG. A basic route to follow is PvE -> Isle of the Nameless -> Zaishen Arenas -> Random Arenas -> Team Arenas -> Heroes' Ascent. GvG is rather hard to get into that way, as it requires the player to specifically move off this path and go for a GvG guild. Of course, one of the contributing factors to people not doing GvG is that HA offers much more straightforward rewards (end chest), which people from a normal background are familiar with from PvE. GvG on the other hand, has only very hard-to-get format-based player rewards: the Champion title, cape trims, and Tournament Reward Points (disregarding XTH). Simply put, non-dedicated GvG players can get more out of playing other formats such as HA, more easily. You could view GvG as a niche format in that way. Yet, it's arguably the most competitive, skilled, and fun format in all of Guild Wars. The fact that pretty much all of the PvP skill balancing resolve around GvG, is what in my opinion keeps the format alive. The Live Team probably realizes this. You can imagine that getting into GvG is even harder for those who are not specifically working towards it. In the end though, this means that only the most dedicated players are willing to have a go at GvG, which only is a positive thing for the GvG community. |
Sarevok Thordin
GvG, in my view, simply isn't rewarding enough for people who aren't willing to invest LOTS of time into it. Sure you can raise a few rating points with some casual play, but you won't make it to the level where you can get the real player rewards very easily (Champion title comes to mind). You can get Balth faction sure, but there are other modes of play that award you this too, RA and JQ.
Next is the organization that GvG requires before you can really start playing it, first you need a build, then people who know those roles well, then can work with the rest of their team, know the vent lingo.
I could go on but long story short, GvG is VERY involved and requires more brainpower than any rollface PvE stuff for sure.
Although, if Anet revealed the Champion Monument granted some rediculously noticible reward in GW2 you can be assured that the GvG activity would spike something rotten...
Next is the organization that GvG requires before you can really start playing it, first you need a build, then people who know those roles well, then can work with the rest of their team, know the vent lingo.
I could go on but long story short, GvG is VERY involved and requires more brainpower than any rollface PvE stuff for sure.
Although, if Anet revealed the Champion Monument granted some rediculously noticible reward in GW2 you can be assured that the GvG activity would spike something rotten...
stuntharley
I'm a rank 10 HA'er, just moved into GvG a few nights ago.
2 wins, 7 losses... all we VS'd were top 100 smurfs and 2 bad teams.
That is what stops people from GvG'ing
2 wins, 7 losses... all we VS'd were top 100 smurfs and 2 bad teams.
That is what stops people from GvG'ing
Sarevok Thordin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by stuntharley
I'm a rank 10 HA'er, just moved into GvG a few nights ago.
2 wins, 7 losses... all we VS'd were top 100 smurfs and 2 bad teams. That is what stops people from GvG'ing |
Let's not forget what happened during that infamous MAT with Rawr...
lilDeath
I have always been interested in PvP, and especially GvG.
The hurdles for me have always been - the logistics of getting 8 people together wanting to do the same thing, and being of similar skill and being able to work around their busy / life schedules to logon at the same time, etc. these are all the bigger issues.
It doesn't help that I am not a kid anymore, so all the folks I know are all busy with other things.
Also, just being who I am, I like to do everything, and the easiest to get into was PvE, of which I have pretty much done everything now.
A few months ago, a few guys and I hooked up and formed a GvG team, it went well and it was really my first and only exposure for the first time. This even though I have been religiously following the GvG scene for well over 2 years now, during the vD, eF and EW eras. (I have been playing for almost 4, Team Everfrost was the very first GvG I watched, the name sounded cool
). We probably ended up doing something like 30 GvGs, of which we won probably about 5 or so, maybe a few more. This was a brand new team, with not very good people, mind you. The team disbanded shortly after, because of real-life stepping in.
However, it was a blast while it lasted.
I happened to choose monking (infuser) as my role, and I got pretty into it. Practising whenever I could get a chance. I were even told that my monking got better with every game and week passing. This was cool, since the guys I was playing with played in the old Cry for Eternity [Cry] guild from 2 years ago, so they had top100 experience. This was before they got to top10.
Anyway, if I would meet the right people and could give it a go, I sure would do it again. Of course, not being in your normal EU or AM zones does not help (I am closer to EU timezone anyway) and my pings seriously suck at times, which generally some people will frown upon.
I reckon it is a cool format, very different from the rest of the arenas. I might just be in contact with the mentorship guilds (kiSu), but for now, my time is lacking a bit.
Sorry, I am not in America, but I wanted to contribute about my experience.
The hurdles for me have always been - the logistics of getting 8 people together wanting to do the same thing, and being of similar skill and being able to work around their busy / life schedules to logon at the same time, etc. these are all the bigger issues.
It doesn't help that I am not a kid anymore, so all the folks I know are all busy with other things.
Also, just being who I am, I like to do everything, and the easiest to get into was PvE, of which I have pretty much done everything now.
A few months ago, a few guys and I hooked up and formed a GvG team, it went well and it was really my first and only exposure for the first time. This even though I have been religiously following the GvG scene for well over 2 years now, during the vD, eF and EW eras. (I have been playing for almost 4, Team Everfrost was the very first GvG I watched, the name sounded cool
). We probably ended up doing something like 30 GvGs, of which we won probably about 5 or so, maybe a few more. This was a brand new team, with not very good people, mind you. The team disbanded shortly after, because of real-life stepping in.However, it was a blast while it lasted.
I happened to choose monking (infuser) as my role, and I got pretty into it. Practising whenever I could get a chance. I were even told that my monking got better with every game and week passing. This was cool, since the guys I was playing with played in the old Cry for Eternity [Cry] guild from 2 years ago, so they had top100 experience. This was before they got to top10.
Anyway, if I would meet the right people and could give it a go, I sure would do it again. Of course, not being in your normal EU or AM zones does not help (I am closer to EU timezone anyway) and my pings seriously suck at times, which generally some people will frown upon.
I reckon it is a cool format, very different from the rest of the arenas. I might just be in contact with the mentorship guilds (kiSu), but for now, my time is lacking a bit.
Sorry, I am not in America, but I wanted to contribute about my experience.
Jensy
Actually, my guild is planning to get into GvG within the next two months. What's been holding us back is:
1) Scheduling. We've got players from all over the world, and getting a few hours where someone isn't at work/school/asleep, and then finding 8 of them to gather in one spot... eesh. Our "core" so to speak, is a 50/50 American/Euro split :P
2) The learning curve appears quite steep. You need to get 8 people first, sure, then you have to make sure all 8 understand the sort of dedication you need to start learning from the bottom, and lose quite often. Esp since when you're coming from PvE where it's all *faceroll* *WIN!* -- going to days and weeks of getting kicked the teeth usually makes people start dropping off the face of the earth.
This is not to say that I personally want things to be easy! It's just that less... well... dedicated people start dropping back to PvE when it gets too hard :P Which would leave the 8 people we have assembled with spots that are tough to fill.
3) We're a small guild (20 or so?), in a very small/quiet PvE-based alliance. We really don't know many folks that can give advice/tell us UR DOIN IT RONG, but here's how to improve. I did get some great advice off the [rawr] forums, but in terms of actually having people in game we can talk to... that's a bit tougher. Sure, we could move, but ... where to go, you know?
Now, in spite of all of these things, we're going to give it a shot. We may be sort of crazy, and we're going to spend quite a bit of time taking dirtnaps, but it looks like fun. Do want.
1) Scheduling. We've got players from all over the world, and getting a few hours where someone isn't at work/school/asleep, and then finding 8 of them to gather in one spot... eesh. Our "core" so to speak, is a 50/50 American/Euro split :P
2) The learning curve appears quite steep. You need to get 8 people first, sure, then you have to make sure all 8 understand the sort of dedication you need to start learning from the bottom, and lose quite often. Esp since when you're coming from PvE where it's all *faceroll* *WIN!* -- going to days and weeks of getting kicked the teeth usually makes people start dropping off the face of the earth.
This is not to say that I personally want things to be easy! It's just that less... well... dedicated people start dropping back to PvE when it gets too hard :P Which would leave the 8 people we have assembled with spots that are tough to fill.
3) We're a small guild (20 or so?), in a very small/quiet PvE-based alliance. We really don't know many folks that can give advice/tell us UR DOIN IT RONG, but here's how to improve. I did get some great advice off the [rawr] forums, but in terms of actually having people in game we can talk to... that's a bit tougher. Sure, we could move, but ... where to go, you know?
Now, in spite of all of these things, we're going to give it a shot. We may be sort of crazy, and we're going to spend quite a bit of time taking dirtnaps, but it looks like fun. Do want.
Chocobo1
New Zealand ping means 300-500 lag constantly. So I feel as if there is no point really trying to get into GvG, as even though I understand the game and play well, my timing for stuff like Interupts, Prots and Heals would be off.
stuntharley
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Originally Posted by Chocobo1
New Zealand ping means 300-500 lag constantly. So I feel as if there is no point really trying to get into GvG, as even though I understand the game and play well, my timing for stuff like Interupts, Prots and Heals would be off.
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But you don't red bar prot/heal you follow their damage and it makes healing/protting so much easier.
Martin Alvito
I left in early 2006 because I got tired of trying to catch the ridiculously clean spikes of eight Koreans using the same connection in the same room for 45 minutes. I've come back for brief stretches here and there when friends have been determined to GvG, but not because I truly enjoyed the format.
Even today, good matches are stupid long for a format that demands continuous perfect play. Top end GvG is mentally exhausting srs bsns, and anything less than top end play doesn't carry the rewards necessary to attract and retain a player base. Also, you have to fail for hours and hours and hours and hours to become skilled and, as noted by others, most people don't have the patience for it.
Long story short, all the time the best players invested created an externality (the steep learning curve) that cut off the inflow of new players, given the fail rewards for being anyplace below the very top of the GvG community.
Even today, good matches are stupid long for a format that demands continuous perfect play. Top end GvG is mentally exhausting srs bsns, and anything less than top end play doesn't carry the rewards necessary to attract and retain a player base. Also, you have to fail for hours and hours and hours and hours to become skilled and, as noted by others, most people don't have the patience for it.
Long story short, all the time the best players invested created an externality (the steep learning curve) that cut off the inflow of new players, given the fail rewards for being anyplace below the very top of the GvG community.
Chocobo1
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Originally Posted by stuntharley
I'm from Australia and get the same ping, I have never had trouble interupting a 1 second cast. Not that, that means much anyway.
But you don't red bar prot/heal you follow their damage and it makes healing/protting so much easier. |
And yeah, I don't generally Red Bar but during stuff like R-Spike I have a fair bit of trouble following the damage. But hmm, I guess I should have another go at it.
lemming
I feel like I'm held back from GvGing because all my matches take 28 minutes to complete.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Canon
With this in mind, I have to then ask what is holding members of the Guild Wars community back from getting into the GvG scene.
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Step 1: Find eight players on similar schedules who can all get along and fill each role in a team. (This is very difficult to find and even if I did, we'd just go vanquishing because unlike GvG, vanquishing is actually FUN and I play games because they're GAMES and games are supposed to be FUN, which GvG is not.)
Step 2: Find an appropriate build.
Step 3: Actually master this build.
Step 4: Countless trial and error against other guilds, trying to learn to play GvG.
Generally speaking it breaks down between steps 2 and 3.
I'll tell you this: if there was a Random GvG arena (completely random teams from the arena) I'd play that a lot. Man, that'd actually be fun because we wouldn't have to achieve the impossible Step 1 and we wouldn't go against obsessive GvGers. Same goes for HA. A Random HA would be the best thing to happen to HA in years.
tl;dr GvG is work, not fun.
On a more personal note: I constantly have BitTorrent slowing my connection down what with the massive psytrance discographies I'm downloading, and I also like to be able to step away from the computer every now and then.
Dawn Angelheart
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Originally Posted by moriz
the sheer logistical nightmare of getting:
-8 people from different part of the world -getting those people to log on at the same time, consistently -finding people that are likeminded, and similarly skilled -and last of all, having those 8 people actually like each other are the main deterrent of getting more people into gvg. it's the nature of the beast: the problem is the format itself. |
i can honestly say that when forming a guild, these are a list of the biggest problems.
Adding on one though: Your team not giving up, losing moral after losing.
Some guilds lose all night long, after a while things click and your on your way.
When you get by these, you will find, either Your team will do well starting off. rating 1000, is around Rank 970. and you will go up to top 600, then you struggle a bit as when you get further than that, you get good guilds who know what they are doing. Once you get about R400 i think it is, you could be paired off with anyone from Rank 1 to Rank whatever. so you do have to know what your doing to compete and be able to play as well as these guilds.
All this being said IF you dont run into smurf guilds, which imo are the biggest problem with GvG.
If you do not do well at Rating 1000, and you drop lower, you will find that games either become quickly won, or quickly lost.
Shadowspawn X
GvG is for pro players, regular players can't succeed there.
Sk8tborderx
The 14 day requirement for ATs is the biggest reason I just can't get back into GvG. I hate ladder play for the most part, and I don't feel like waiting 2 weeks before having fun.
stuntharley
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Here's what we'd have to do to get into GvG:
Step 1: Find eight players on similar schedules who can all get along and fill each role in a team. (This is very difficult to find and even if I did, we'd just go vanquishing because unlike GvG, vanquishing is actually FUN and I play games because they're GAMES and games are supposed to be FUN, which GvG is not.) |
Xenex Xclame
What stops me personally from GvG'ing?
No GvG guild.
Plain and simple.I used to be in a guild about 2 years ago that GvG'd on a regular occation about 4 days a week.But right about the time GW:EN came out most of us had gotten a bit bored with GW and slowly we started playing less and less.I am currently in a guild with some of the old members of the GvG guild, but they dont log on.So basically its just me
I came back this time about 3 months ago and would like to find a GvG guild,but its kind hard to find one that will actually play a GvG, you might find a guild that says they GvG but when you join them you never get to do a GvG for whatever reason.
From personal experience its also kind of hard to get a GvG guild,I mean theres the searh thing where there is a separete section for guild recruitments and etc, but there is no real place to go and find GvG guilds,if you want to find a HA guild, its easier as you can just go to HA and post that you are searching and just wait and hope.
No GvG guild.
Plain and simple.I used to be in a guild about 2 years ago that GvG'd on a regular occation about 4 days a week.But right about the time GW:EN came out most of us had gotten a bit bored with GW and slowly we started playing less and less.I am currently in a guild with some of the old members of the GvG guild, but they dont log on.So basically its just me
I came back this time about 3 months ago and would like to find a GvG guild,but its kind hard to find one that will actually play a GvG, you might find a guild that says they GvG but when you join them you never get to do a GvG for whatever reason.
From personal experience its also kind of hard to get a GvG guild,I mean theres the searh thing where there is a separete section for guild recruitments and etc, but there is no real place to go and find GvG guilds,if you want to find a HA guild, its easier as you can just go to HA and post that you are searching and just wait and hope.
subarucar
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Originally Posted by Chocobo1
New Zealand ping means 300-500 lag constantly. So I feel as if there is no point really trying to get into GvG, as even though I understand the game and play well, my timing for stuff like Interupts, Prots and Heals would be off.
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Some time heavy commitments came up and I left for a casual PvE guild so I could do a few farm runs or missions when I have time on. When I had more time availible I tried to get back into GvG, but most of the guilds around were either full, bad or played during hours I couldn't.
Short answer
The main problem of getting into GvG are getting people on at the same time and finding a decent guild.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by stuntharley
See I love how you label GvG as not a game.
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GvG is played as a competition, or a sport, not as something fun like a game.
moriz
a well played, well executed gvg match is about the most fun i've had while playing GW. so yes, gvg can potentially be VERY fun. by your definition, that makes it a game.
it might not be fun for you, but it is fun for many people. why do you think professional athletes and gamers play the way they do? ultimately it's not about the money. they play because they genuinely love the game.
it might not be fun for you, but it is fun for many people. why do you think professional athletes and gamers play the way they do? ultimately it's not about the money. they play because they genuinely love the game.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by moriz
a well played, well executed gvg match is about the most fun i've had while playing GW
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Canon
I think I've read all of the replies so far so thanks for giving the feedback. Is there anything a player can do to try and encourage more guilds or people to GvG?
DreamWind
GvG is by far the best part about Guild Wars...I have no doubt in my mind about that.
That being said...it simply isn't worth it anymore, and most players who have left will probably agree with me. While there has always been some level of difficulty to get players together to play, back in the older days of GvG it was worth it. The game was awesome. But now there have been far too many hits to the game over the years. Me and every single person I used to know who played GvG with me have 0 desire to ever do it again.
That being said...it simply isn't worth it anymore, and most players who have left will probably agree with me. While there has always been some level of difficulty to get players together to play, back in the older days of GvG it was worth it. The game was awesome. But now there have been far too many hits to the game over the years. Me and every single person I used to know who played GvG with me have 0 desire to ever do it again.
lutz
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
Oh yeah, that's another thing, foul play by high lvl GvGers <_<
Let's not forget what happened during that infamous MAT with Rawr... |
moriz
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
I take it then that you skipped the actual game.
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but no, i have done just about every part of GW. outside of one or two elite areas, i've done everything GW has to offer. my statement still stands: a well played, well executed gvg match is the most fun i've had in GW... in any game, for that matter.
i don't know why it's such a chore for you, but for many of us, it isn't.
Darth The Xx
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
I take it then that you skipped the actual game.
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On that note I don't GvG anymore cus my times suck, i'm in NZ and my play times result in 30 min+ waits for 1 game, which most definitely is NOT fun!
Jensy
As to what can be done, I don't know. It's not always apparent that the GvG community *wants* new players around. You're either PvP (GvG), or you're a whiny PvE noob. Now, granted this is because a lot of the discussion here on guru is of the "ZOMG LEAVE PVE ALONE!" crowd who whine, and cry, and whine when something gets nerfed in PvE. Like, yanno, this past week for example *g*
So when you've got players that do want to participate in discussions... we all get lumped with the whiners. and get a "stfu and go back to pve, noob!" or witty comments/injokes from the usual crowd. It's hard to break into that, and/or come right out and say look, I don't understand why X, Y, Z were nerfed, can someone explain? Not that discussions = GvG, but since a lot of the higher end GvG crowd comments here, if a newer pvp player is constantly being excluded and told to GTFO, well, they'll just GTFO :P
We're admittedly PvP fangirls in my guild. And by that I mean, we watch obs, we sit and discuss obs, we have mAT watching parties in the guild hall. We're *dorks* of the highest order. We got tired of watching, and are going to play.
So when you've got players that do want to participate in discussions... we all get lumped with the whiners. and get a "stfu and go back to pve, noob!" or witty comments/injokes from the usual crowd. It's hard to break into that, and/or come right out and say look, I don't understand why X, Y, Z were nerfed, can someone explain? Not that discussions = GvG, but since a lot of the higher end GvG crowd comments here, if a newer pvp player is constantly being excluded and told to GTFO, well, they'll just GTFO :P
We're admittedly PvP fangirls in my guild. And by that I mean, we watch obs, we sit and discuss obs, we have mAT watching parties in the guild hall. We're *dorks* of the highest order. We got tired of watching, and are going to play.
QueenofDeath
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Originally Posted by moriz
the sheer logistical nightmare of getting:
-8 people from different part of the world -getting those people to log on at the same time, consistently -finding people that are likeminded, and similarly skilled -and last of all, having those 8 people actually like each other are the main deterrent of getting more people into gvg. it's the nature of the beast: the problem is the format itself. |
I'll bet you there are more players playing RA, FA, JQ and AB combined than there are playing GVG. Granted AB is choose up but players are less arrogant in AB and less leet acting than GVG players. When I was a member of a GVG team it was very much having 8 players who could get along with each other. I never saw such a blame game as I did playing GVG. It's your fault nooo it was the monks fault, noooo it was the rangers or the mesmers or anybody but YOU's fault. lol
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| Why? because it takes far less skill to beat a computer than an actual person. |
t can take far more skill to be able to figure out the build to beat many of the ai bosses in the game. You just don't go in with a blanket skill build and beat the AI unless you've copied something from wiki or someone told you a build.
PVP is a learning process just like playing the PVE game and I've met many a PVP player who had less skills than the AI in many areas of the map. Everything is built around mathematics and timing and the AI can do that very well. The human element just has the ability to eventually outthink the ai code, but, not always the first try same with a new PVP player. There are some PVP players who never gain the skill to even be fair in the game. Some people are just stupid like that. Just like saying it takes far less skill to defeat a computer ai than it does an actual person.
moriz
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Originally Posted by QueenofDeath
See it's people who make statements like that that are the reason many don't play GVG or any form of PVP. He has no clue what he's talking about because his statement is subjective. I've faced many in PVP who didn't have the skill of a noob area AI. I t can take far more skill to be able to figure out the build to beat many of the ai bosses in the game. You just don't go in with a blanket skill build and beat the AI unless you've copied something from wiki or someone told you a build. PVP is a learning process just like playing the PVE game and I've met many a PVP player who had less skills than the AI in many areas of the map. Everything is built around mathematics and timing and the AI can do that very well. The human element just has the ability to eventually outthink the ai code, but, not always the first try same with a new PVP player. There are some PVP players who never gain the skill to even be fair in the game. Some people are just stupid like that. Just like saying it takes far less skill to defeat a computer ai than it does an actual person. |
way prior to that, back in early '06 when i first picked up the game, i quite accidentally stumbled into RA... and didn't leave until Factions came out. when i did play pve again, i was awestruck as to how easy it was. vizunah square? masters on the first try. thunderhead keep? took a long time, but did it easily. pve in its entirety was of absolutely no challenge to me, even before PvE skills and heroes.
did my time spent in RA simply made me a better player? i don't know. i do know that, if RA has a difficulty of 5 out of 10, general PvE would be a 2. it conditioned me to be far faster and far more precise in my execution than what's needed for PvE, and i think that's what made it so easy for me.
honestly though, i don't see how it's even comparable to compare PvE to any level of PvP. they are effectively separate games. the people you've found to epicfail in PvE probably do in PvP also. unless you've found yourself true retards, i find it hard to imagine any competent PvP'er to fail in PvE.
Catchphrase
If I want some thrills, I would DotA, at least it doesn't require a full team to start a match and it is much more popular here in where I lived than GW, making me feel more at ease. GW is just something I would play when I want to have my own private moment.
Darth The Xx
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Originally Posted by moriz
errr... i recently blasted my way though pve with an entirely self-made build (including hero builds). it was a mesmer to boot. with four interrupts. it uses psychic instability as its elite. i was purposely trying to give myself a challenge.
way prior to that, back in early '06 when i first picked up the game, i quite accidentally stumbled into RA... and didn't leave until Factions came out. when i did play pve again, i was awestruck as to how easy it was. vizunah square? masters on the first try. thunderhead keep? took a long time, but did it easily. pve in its entirety was of absolutely no challenge to me, even before PvE skills and heroes. did my time spent in RA simply made me a better player? i don't know. i do know that, if RA has a difficulty of 5 out of 10, general PvE would be a 2. it conditioned me to be far faster and far more precise in my execution than what's needed for PvE, and i think that's what made it so easy for me. honestly though, i don't see how it's even comparable to compare PvE to any level of PvP. they are effectively separate games. the people you've found to epicfail in PvE probably do in PvP also. unless you've found yourself true retards, i find it hard to imagine any competent PvP'er to fail in PvE. |
DreamWind
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Originally Posted by Darth The Xx
Following on from this its almost like a food chain but certain areas jst require you to be better. For example I started out in PvE like most ppl in the game, then after about a week did RA/AB and stuff and found PvE extraodinarily easy. That being said, after I picked up GvG and went back to TA/RA/AB I also found it extremely easy so this is in no way exclusive to PvE, just for me personally PvE is the bottom of the food chain. Strike that JQ and FA are below PvE IMO
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I would still be playing GvG today if not for all the horrific changes Anet made to the game. I think any bad change that is made is amplified in this game, because if any of the people you play with quit, it hurts you as well because that is another person you have to find who can play. The PvP community has took serious hits, and when a community takes hits like that in any game, it is nearly impossible to rebuild.
Sarevok Thordin
I think alot of the PvP community took a hit when lots of the koreans left the game because there were no more money making tournaments.
Artisan Archer
I've been one of those players that actually followed the;
PvE -> RA -> TA -> HA-> GvG line
First completing all campaigns, get almost all skills for my ranger. Then playing RA to get basic knowledge of PvP (even if it's typed in caps and followed by XXX has left the game.) Then wanting more of a coordinated format, moving to TA. Actually building a friendlist there, people asked me to come to HA. I HA'd for a very short while. I like the 8v8 format, but I just didn't like the fact that I rarely got to wield a bow as a ranger (aka, gimmick builds). In the mean I did do GvG with some of my guilds before, but they tend to disband rather quick. Then I searched a GvG guild here on gwguru and I must say it's the most fun I've ever had playing Guild Wars. I was very lucky to find a guild that actually had experienced members, who just restarting GvGing.
If I look at my personal experience, this is why few people are GvGing;
- Some people never make it past RA.
- Some people are happy with HA and don't want to GvG.
- Many people don't want to leave everything to join a GvG guild.
- Many people quit after the initial (and inevitable) losses.
The only people that remain, are either part of a huge guilds/alliance that casually GvG's(few and far between), or part of a GvG-only guild.
PvE -> RA -> TA -> HA-> GvG line
First completing all campaigns, get almost all skills for my ranger. Then playing RA to get basic knowledge of PvP (even if it's typed in caps and followed by XXX has left the game.) Then wanting more of a coordinated format, moving to TA. Actually building a friendlist there, people asked me to come to HA. I HA'd for a very short while. I like the 8v8 format, but I just didn't like the fact that I rarely got to wield a bow as a ranger (aka, gimmick builds). In the mean I did do GvG with some of my guilds before, but they tend to disband rather quick. Then I searched a GvG guild here on gwguru and I must say it's the most fun I've ever had playing Guild Wars. I was very lucky to find a guild that actually had experienced members, who just restarting GvGing.
If I look at my personal experience, this is why few people are GvGing;
- Some people never make it past RA.
- Some people are happy with HA and don't want to GvG.
- Many people don't want to leave everything to join a GvG guild.
- Many people quit after the initial (and inevitable) losses.
The only people that remain, are either part of a huge guilds/alliance that casually GvG's(few and far between), or part of a GvG-only guild.
M @ T
Basically what everybody said above and also the horrific lag. I GvGed in 5 matches yesterday and got error 007 on 4 and I wasn't the only one. Many players have connection issues.
I still try to GvG, I'm not much into PvE or HA(I practically stoped playing HA when the 1st IWay hit the scene)but now I'm starting HAing too.
I still try to GvG, I'm not much into PvE or HA(I practically stoped playing HA when the 1st IWay hit the scene)but now I'm starting HAing too.
Milia Ameliorate
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Originally Posted by pansy malfoy
Actually, my guild is planning to get into GvG within the next two months. What's been holding us back is:
1) Scheduling. We've got players from all over the world, and getting a few hours where someone isn't at work/school/asleep, and then finding 8 of them to gather in one spot... eesh. Our "core" so to speak, is a 50/50 American/Euro split :P |
As to the thread at hand, I know the two big hurdles we've faced/are facing currently- 1 the difficulty of getting a core 8 and making it stick, and 2 just figuring out what works and what doesn't ;/ Thrown out several different types of builds from a cleanspike attempt as our very first build (lol) to a pressureish/split setup later on.