Shadow form or shadow farm as i call it it the 1 skill that dominates all making everything so easy but how will runs work without it below i will talk about some hard runs that use sf to do.
Gates Of Madness HM - Alot of people hate this mission since wipeing at shiro is so frustrating there is some permas who run this for 15k each but if they go who else is they as not many people can do this with h/h setup.
Slavers Exile (Dunkan NM and HM) - In NM And HM Dunkan the black is a horrible foe with near 50,000 health and this is a run that perma is popular for as they can have the job done in under 10 mins but for a balenced team what could be whiped by 1 spirit rift it could take over 1 hour to atleast beat him
Catacombes of Kathandrax - i know this is a 600/smite run but the 2nd floor requires a perma so personally i dunno if the 600/smite could do the 2nd floor
tell me what you think guyes and say any other runs that you think that might be a stuggle without the almighty sf
How will certain runs work without Shadow Form
chris1234565
kupp
The short answer: people will need to learn to play *gasp*
I've done all of those 3 examples all with henchmen, so IT IS possible. So what happens there? People fail because they're doing something wrong and instead of learning, adapting and succeding, we see 'LF RUNNER HM' everywhere. It's ridiculous/sad how most people will rather pay up someone to play the game for them because they can't be bothered to think for themselves and tackle on something harder than what they're confortable. Pong, might be an awesome game for those people. This type of running is something I really hope not to see in GW2, if people can't play the game, they shouldn't still be able to complete it by someone else.
I really can't wait for the SF nerf and watch all the crying and bitching on guru and in game. Oh will I spend the next days in ToA laughing.
edit: well I might be thinking whisful here, this is what I'd like to see happening. The reality will probably be - 600/smites will do all the dungeon running you'll ever need, and the next overpowered build will take over the rest of the game, that's how it always goes down. And that's if SF is nerfed properly, we all know how much it can and went wrong already.
I've done all of those 3 examples all with henchmen, so IT IS possible. So what happens there? People fail because they're doing something wrong and instead of learning, adapting and succeding, we see 'LF RUNNER HM' everywhere. It's ridiculous/sad how most people will rather pay up someone to play the game for them because they can't be bothered to think for themselves and tackle on something harder than what they're confortable. Pong, might be an awesome game for those people. This type of running is something I really hope not to see in GW2, if people can't play the game, they shouldn't still be able to complete it by someone else.
I really can't wait for the SF nerf and watch all the crying and bitching on guru and in game. Oh will I spend the next days in ToA laughing.
edit: well I might be thinking whisful here, this is what I'd like to see happening. The reality will probably be - 600/smites will do all the dungeon running you'll ever need, and the next overpowered build will take over the rest of the game, that's how it always goes down. And that's if SF is nerfed properly, we all know how much it can and went wrong already.
Desert Rose
Gates Of Madness HM - possible without perma; i mean a rush, not actuall beat it in a "normal" way.
Slavers Exile (Dunkan NM and HM) - displace spirits, tank dies near duncan, necro kills him with signet of sorrow.
Catacombes of Kathandrax - are you sure it "requires" a perma or it is just the easiest method?
UWSC - goes back to earth eles.
DoA - goes back to obsi tanks.
Slavers Exile (Dunkan NM and HM) - displace spirits, tank dies near duncan, necro kills him with signet of sorrow.
Catacombes of Kathandrax - are you sure it "requires" a perma or it is just the easiest method?
UWSC - goes back to earth eles.
DoA - goes back to obsi tanks.
darksuzaku
All 3 things can be done more or less easily with H/H.
Gate of Madness. This one is the easiest. In fact sometimes i have failed to get the extra because my H/H killed shiro before we could activate all the shrines.
Duncan. Have done it only a few times (because of having to kill all the other bosses first). The other elite areas are more difficult than this one.
Kathandrax. Easy too. If you want to go 600/smite the key skill is Pain Inverter for the wurms that don't atack and for that boss on level 3. A Rit 600 doesn't need pain inverter as vengeful weapon steals their life, but of course Pain Inverter still makes it faster.
Gate of Madness. This one is the easiest. In fact sometimes i have failed to get the extra because my H/H killed shiro before we could activate all the shrines.
Duncan. Have done it only a few times (because of having to kill all the other bosses first). The other elite areas are more difficult than this one.
Kathandrax. Easy too. If you want to go 600/smite the key skill is Pain Inverter for the wurms that don't atack and for that boss on level 3. A Rit 600 doesn't need pain inverter as vengeful weapon steals their life, but of course Pain Inverter still makes it faster.
qvtkc
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Originally Posted by chris1234565
hate this mission (...) so frustrating (...) horrible
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4thVariety
Gates of Madness HM: last done with an Imbagon in the group. Enemy damage was little more than a tingling sensation. Bonus not a problem. First we killed the Lich, then activated the five altars and removed Shiro.
Salver's Exile HM: Signet of Sorrow is not too bad like Desert Rose said.
Kathandrax: Any group of eight humans will have few problems, provided they got a decent build and know their priorities killing enemies. The two endbosses are a bit annoying, but nothing one can't handle.
Most notably, the absence of Shadow Form will no longer turn DoA and FoW into the Benny Hill Show. UW might also be a good area, instead of a 15 minute chest run. That is not only ruining the fun for most players, it also ruined the scarcity of UW chest loot in no time.
Salver's Exile HM: Signet of Sorrow is not too bad like Desert Rose said.
Kathandrax: Any group of eight humans will have few problems, provided they got a decent build and know their priorities killing enemies. The two endbosses are a bit annoying, but nothing one can't handle.
Most notably, the absence of Shadow Form will no longer turn DoA and FoW into the Benny Hill Show. UW might also be a good area, instead of a 15 minute chest run. That is not only ruining the fun for most players, it also ruined the scarcity of UW chest loot in no time.
Show Some Skin
I never used Shadow Form that much and have done the things listed fine w/o it.
Gates of Madness- i did H/H, its do-able you just need specific skills to kill Shiro like insidious, empathy, Spoil Victor.
Duncan- i do Slavers on a weekly basis and the only time we needed perma was to get to the dungeon and move spirits. I did spirits on my mes so perma is not needed on that part and its not impossible
. And i never had the 1hr problem to kill him either, it usually takes 10mins or less.
Btw, whats with all this "ZOMG!!! if Shadow Form is going bye bye what we gonna do???" Learn to play like everyone else did and quit making posts about this pointless QQ stuff. I dont do UWSC or any other speed clear and i make enough gold playing through the game. I even was able to get obsidian for my mesmer and was happy i earned it through playing and not doing hours of speed clears.
Me personally, i could care less if they nerf SF or not and for all of you that dread that day when they do nerf, il be here waiting to count how much QQ threads get posted while you bite your nails wondering how your gonna go through the game without Shadow Form.
Gates of Madness- i did H/H, its do-able you just need specific skills to kill Shiro like insidious, empathy, Spoil Victor.
Duncan- i do Slavers on a weekly basis and the only time we needed perma was to get to the dungeon and move spirits. I did spirits on my mes so perma is not needed on that part and its not impossible
. And i never had the 1hr problem to kill him either, it usually takes 10mins or less. Btw, whats with all this "ZOMG!!! if Shadow Form is going bye bye what we gonna do???" Learn to play like everyone else did and quit making posts about this pointless QQ stuff. I dont do UWSC or any other speed clear and i make enough gold playing through the game. I even was able to get obsidian for my mesmer and was happy i earned it through playing and not doing hours of speed clears.
Me personally, i could care less if they nerf SF or not and for all of you that dread that day when they do nerf, il be here waiting to count how much QQ threads get posted while you bite your nails wondering how your gonna go through the game without Shadow Form.
drkn
the question is still, how will they nerf it. it's possible that new builds will spread after a month since the upcoming nerf as it won't shatter some of the ways.
the easiest and most disrupting would be to change shadow form into stance skill, instead of enchantment - that would keep the shadow form as a skill in game, wouldn't require any other skill change and kill the permasins - perfect solution.
the easiest and most disrupting would be to change shadow form into stance skill, instead of enchantment - that would keep the shadow form as a skill in game, wouldn't require any other skill change and kill the permasins - perfect solution.
chris1234565
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Originally Posted by qvtkc
Why the hell are you even playing those missions and dungeons if it's all so negative to you?
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Vaerin
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Originally Posted by Show Some Skin
Gates of Madness- i did H/H, its do-able you just need specific skills to kill Shiro like insidious, empathy, Spoil Victor. |
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Impossible_Odds <-this
It's impossibly bugged.
Kattar
They'll run just like they did before Shadow Form. I can't remember a run I've paid for that had to use Shadow Form.
BrettM
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Originally Posted by Show Some Skin
Gates of Madness- i did H/H, its do-able you just need specific skills to kill Shiro like insidious, empathy, Spoil Victor.
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Captain Bulldozer
None of the things you mention really needs Shadow Form. In fact, the more you think about it, the more you realize there are very few farms/runs currently that really need Shadow Form to be effective... Perma is just so massively over-powered that people have lazily used it to do everything. This is also why its going to be nerfed by the way. The only farm/run I can think of that could NOT be done without Shadow Form is the HM Ravenheart Gloom run that I've made so much money from. Oh well, no more free Torment gems.
CronkTheImpaler
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Originally Posted by BrettM
You do? Gee, I wish you'd told me sooner. Silly me, I went and killed him HM using an H&H team that didn't have ANY of these essential skills, and he went down quite easily.
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Cronk
Zahr Dalsk
Gates of Madness is easy anyways; you can make a nice bit of cash taking a couple people through it, actually, if you get the builds figured out.
But let's face it: who gives a flying shit if runs don't work anymore? Play the game itself some time.
But let's face it: who gives a flying shit if runs don't work anymore? Play the game itself some time.
Silverhand
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Originally Posted by Katsumi
They'll run just like they did before Shadow Form
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uw and things like that will just use obsi eles like it used to
Longasc
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Originally Posted by kupp
The short answer: people will need to learn to play *gasp*
(...) The reality will probably be - 600/smites will do all the dungeon running you'll ever need, and the next overpowered build will take over the rest of the game, that's how it always goes down. |
upier
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
But let's face it: who gives a flying shit if runs don't work anymore? Play the game itself some time.
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Killamus
I really laugh at all the people who rage and QQ at people getting runs.
Seriously, by getting runs they're not hurting you (In fact, if you started running people, it'd BENEFIT you), and most people don't want runs because they can't do something, but because after you do something for the 10th time it gets real boring, and not worth doing the normal way. Trust me, after getting my sin, war, necro, mesmer, AND ele to DoA AND Urgoz/Deep, I really don't feel like doing any more Cantha/Elona missions for my other characters.
Now, back on topic: Almost all runs can be done without a permasin. Second level of Kathandrax can be done with a VoS runner that uses stoneflesh aura, and UW/DoA/Urgoz/Deep can be done with an obsidian flesh tank, which is a lot easier now because of rock candies (If you use all 3 of them, and a pie, and a cupcake, you'll move at normal speed and pretty much insta-cast everything, making interrupts moot) - Everything that a perma can do, an obsidian flesh tank can do. The only difference is the 50% DMS and conditions and interrupts. Which are fixed by personal cons.
Seriously, by getting runs they're not hurting you (In fact, if you started running people, it'd BENEFIT you), and most people don't want runs because they can't do something, but because after you do something for the 10th time it gets real boring, and not worth doing the normal way. Trust me, after getting my sin, war, necro, mesmer, AND ele to DoA AND Urgoz/Deep, I really don't feel like doing any more Cantha/Elona missions for my other characters.
Now, back on topic: Almost all runs can be done without a permasin. Second level of Kathandrax can be done with a VoS runner that uses stoneflesh aura, and UW/DoA/Urgoz/Deep can be done with an obsidian flesh tank, which is a lot easier now because of rock candies (If you use all 3 of them, and a pie, and a cupcake, you'll move at normal speed and pretty much insta-cast everything, making interrupts moot) - Everything that a perma can do, an obsidian flesh tank can do. The only difference is the 50% DMS and conditions and interrupts. Which are fixed by personal cons.
Eragon Zarroc
runs wont work :P
Silmar Alech
Since my guild mates, my friend list and I don't play anything as perma, a SF nerf will not change a single thing. Everything in HM can be done easily without a perma, and so we play it.
vamp08
Life without shadowform will not be missed, it will be welcomed.
DarkGanni
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chris1234565
Shadow form or shadow farm as i call it it the 1 skill that dominates all making everything so easy but how will runs work without it below i will talk about some hard runs that use sf to do.
Gates Of Madness HM - Alot of people hate this mission since wipeing at shiro is so frustrating there is some permas who run this for 15k each but if they go who else is they as not many people can do this with h/h setup. Slavers Exile (Dunkan NM and HM) - In NM And HM Dunkan the black is a horrible foe with near 50,000 health and this is a run that perma is popular for as they can have the job done in under 10 mins but for a balenced team what could be whiped by 1 spirit rift it could take over 1 hour to atleast beat him Catacombes of Kathandrax - i know this is a 600/smite run but the 2nd floor requires a perma so personally i dunno if the 600/smite could do the 2nd floor tell me what you think guyes and say any other runs that you think that might be a stuggle without the almighty sf |
GoM = Players wipe at shiro because they don't go prepared, hell it's a BIG DEAL crippling him and attack from range.
Slavers = I remember doing this with ele as obby tank, gotta say it's harder to get to duncan him than to kill him. Placing teleporting spirit's far away and SV + Sig of sorrow him to death gets the job done
Kathandrax = as you pointed out already it can be 600/smited, I don't see why this an't be 600/smited, with the addition of a QZ ranger it makes it possible.
Painbringer
Stop amd smell the roses and do it yourself. So you can't do it alone the game is not a solo game in the first place.
Jensy
Oh, no, people will actually have to play the game themselves instead of getting runs 
I've done all vanquishes/HM missions/HM dungeons by never once getting a run through them. If I can do it, certainly everyone else can :P
I've done all vanquishes/HM missions/HM dungeons by never once getting a run through them. If I can do it, certainly everyone else can :P
JimmyNeutron
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Originally Posted by chris1234565
Catacombes of Kathandrax - i know this is a 600/smite run but the 2nd floor requires a perma so personally i dunno if the 600/smite could do the 2nd floor
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Sin are nice to have, but most sins didn't know how to run Level 2 a few months back.
Only part that a 600 needs help from the team on is the Flame Djinn on Level 3 and that helps involve standing STILL!!!! but apparently, people don't understand what standing still means.
BlackSephir
Let's hope they won't. At all.
Maybe this time you'll actually beat a dungeon with a balanced team instead of running and playing with shitty gimmicky builds.
Maybe this, you know, you will play the game.
Maybe this time you'll actually beat a dungeon with a balanced team instead of running and playing with shitty gimmicky builds.
Maybe this, you know, you will play the game.
paranon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chris1234565
Slavers Exile (Dunkan NM and HM) - In NM And HM Dunkan the black is a horrible foe with near 50,000 health and this is a run that perma is popular for as they can have the job done in under 10 mins but for a balenced team what could be whiped by 1 spirit rift it could take over 1 hour to atleast beat him
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QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
/cancel SF nerf.
Axeman002
leave perma alone...nerf 600....leave perma alone....nerf 600 lol
i will protest this till GW is dead and buried. but if it does get nerfed i ain't arsed ill just find some other OP skillbar.
i will protest this till GW is dead and buried. but if it does get nerfed i ain't arsed ill just find some other OP skillbar.
Bug John
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Originally Posted by 4thVariety
Most notably, the absence of Shadow Form will no longer turn DoA and FoW into the Benny Hill Show. UW might also be a good area, instead of a 15 minute chest run. That is not only ruining the fun for most players, it also ruined the scarcity of UW chest loot in no time.
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uw a good area ? what for ? repeating the same quests again and again ? uw is an area you complete once, and never enter again, just like anywhere else in gw, repeatability = zero
oh, and please, get some guts and speak for yourself... "most players" may not share your point of view, and you'll never be able to speak for them
are you talking about the scarcity of req 13 water wands ? because 99% of the time that's the most valuable thing you'll get from uw chest (aside from... one ecto.. OMG !!!! I'm uber rich now), sure it's worth spending 2 hours
I still fail to see why things have to be rare for players to buy them... epeen certainly (oh noes, with all those noob permas my q9 eblade is now only worth 300 ectos, my life is over QQ)
Short
Tbh why do we need all these SF threads? It's not nerfed yet, work out builds later.
toocooltang
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chris1234565
Gates Of Madness HM - Alot of people hate this mission since wipeing at shiro is so frustrating there is some permas who run this for 15k each but if they go who else is they as not many people can do this with h/h setup.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by chris1234565
Slavers Exile (Dunkan NM and HM) - In NM And HM Dunkan the black is a horrible foe with near 50,000 health and this is a run that perma is popular for as they can have the job done in under 10 mins but for a balenced team what could be whiped by 1 spirit rift it could take over 1 hour to atleast beat him
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by chris1234565
Catacombes of Kathandrax - i know this is a 600/smite run but the 2nd floor requires a perma so personally i dunno if the 600/smite could do the 2nd floor
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by chris1234565
tell me what you think guyes and say any other runs that you think that might be a stuggle without the almighty sf
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Vazze
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Originally Posted by Short
Tbh why do we need all these SF threads? It's not nerfed yet, work out builds later.
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JimmyNeutron
How to nerf SF:
1. 0% damage when SF is up.
2. 90% slow movement rate when SF is up.
3. Increase energy cost for SF to 25 and Deadly Paradox to 25 also. This forces people to use all cons that are available to boost energy higher.
4. Reduce duration of SF to 5 sec but still allow user to maintain perma SF and increase DP to 1 sec cast.
or lastly,
BUFF all enemies to touch and enchantment stripment like Incubus in every area and every dungeon.
1. 0% damage when SF is up.
2. 90% slow movement rate when SF is up.
3. Increase energy cost for SF to 25 and Deadly Paradox to 25 also. This forces people to use all cons that are available to boost energy higher.
4. Reduce duration of SF to 5 sec but still allow user to maintain perma SF and increase DP to 1 sec cast.
or lastly,
BUFF all enemies to touch and enchantment stripment like Incubus in every area and every dungeon.
Johny bravo
There are very few areas, if any, that can't be run by something other then a perma. The perma just makes tit mind-numbingly simple and usually much faster. A long time ago some friend of mine thought it was awesome we could clear UW (with exception of the 4 horsemen) with only 4 people (before nightfall). In that same time now you could do about 6 full clears with a good team. Discordway, Spirit way, are full team builds that work they just take longer and involve a little more coordinatin (at times). The loss of the perma sin will only mean a new meta for elite area's and dingeon running (most likely 600 based). Either way most people will find other ways to enjoy the game.
Painbringer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JimmyNeutron
How to nerf SF:
1. 0% damage when SF is up. 2. 90% slow movement rate when SF is up. 3. Increase energy cost for SF to 25 and Deadly Paradox to 25 also. This forces people to use all cons that are available to boost energy higher. 4. Reduce duration of SF to 5 sec but still allow user to maintain perma SF and increase DP to 1 sec cast. or lastly, BUFF all enemies to touch and enchantment stripment like Incubus in every area and every dungeon. |
Zodiac Meteor
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Originally Posted by Painbringer
Blah just make shadow form a stance
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Enchantment Spell. For 24...29 seconds, your stances last 55...91% longer. If you activated this skill while drunk, you cannot be knocked down.
NO!
R_Frost
if you cant figure out how to play the game once whatever is done to SF finally happens, then just do the right thing, uninstall GW. problem solved
Painbringer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor
Enchantment Spell. For 24...29 seconds, your stances last 55...91% longer. If you activated this skill while drunk, you cannot be knocked down. NO! |
QueenofDeath
I never understood the thought process that there is only ONE WAY to kill a mob. lol Oh dear whatever will we do without SF. SF has been a gimmick build that has needed to go away for a long long time. It's about time players started using their brains again and learn to play instead of exploit. Nothing should be killed in 10 minutes that is a god or a holder of elite items. If it takes a hour to kill one of these bosses good for it. I played a lot of Everquest and you didn't kill those gods or major bosses in 10 minutes and this with 45 players attacking it all at once. Battles should be EPIC when you are fighting the gods and/or major bosses. Not some 10 minute or less gimmick invinsible ability because of one skill being stupidly overpowered. I will be soooooooo happy when they nerf SF to smithereens I will dance around my computer chair and then laugh at all the QQers.