Guild Wars was right

Just a rant about personal observations in the MMO space. I don't pretend to be a know-it-all or expert-on-MMOs or Guild Wars. Just wanted to share some thoughts! Cheers!


The biggest curse of the idea behind the concept of the MMORPG, has always, and WILL always be that they are "never ending". Carrot-on-a-stick gameplay that basically goes on forever. You can even argue the ideology if it's even a game if it's in-win-able! After all, would Chess, be a game if it went on forever?

The great thing about Guild Wars is that there is an end to it. You basically have the possibility of paying for whatever content that you want. Getting left behind in the curve is not something that happens when you choose not to buy the latest expansion or game update.

It's that way in almost any other MMORPG. You are caught and stuck. The fall of monthly fee is that the consumer. The people who are in charge can not vote with their wallets. They can't play the game they love without becoming part of finansing the content that they are forced to pay, regardless of what they feel.

When you buy something in the shop you always have a choice to buy or not to buy. But if I like World of Warcraft for example, but do not like the direction it is going, I can not vouch my opinion through choosing to not buy their latest expansions and updates, but simply either totally stop playing, or live with whatever they decide.
It's said that the MMORPG becomes the Gamers game, after it has been released. In most cases that is a complete and utter lie.


Guild Wars is absolutely fantastic because you can jump in and start playing. It does not bind you. Nobody who lets themselfs become consumed by MMORPGs to follow the train really wins the game. They don't gain anything.
I do believe in the positive aspects of social networking and getting friends online, but the way that "some" Hardcore MMORPG gamers establish their reasoning for spending SOO much time on a product, is being in denial.

While I personally have had experience with MMORPGs for around 10 years now, I have never been "addicted" in the sense that the press feeds on a daily basis. I do believe that some people are truly addicted, like you can be addicted to gambling or sniffing ladies underwear, but I also believe that many people use this as a scapegoat.
Saying that you are just addicted and just accepting it, is just another way of dropping all your responsibilities and blaming something exterior(the game). It might as well be being addicted to a DVD boxset of "Days of Our Lives" or "Wheel of fortune". It's being misused.

But upsets me is that my playstyle is that I love MMORPGs. Making a character and exploring a world, but the tenacious grind that follows is always a problem.


I hope that ArenaNet will continue to support Guild Wars. I think what Valve have done with Team Fortress 2 was to create a Win-Win situation for both the end user and Valve itself. By continuing to improve the game in a meaningful way since the launch, interest have peaked much later than it normally would due to the free updates, and that is something that is benefical for both the consumer and Valve.

Likewise, I hope that Anet will help Guild Wars grow and evolve even after GW2 is released.
I still think there are lots of ways that ArenaNet can give Guild Wars more lasting appeal without choking it down the consumers necks.
I have greatly appreciated concepts like Hard Mode and Titles. They have been very fun to work on. As has the support for the game in general. Only once in the time I have played since launch have I experienced server downtime. I am amazed at the quality and work of this game.

I am absolutely speechless at all the stuff you have done, and I hope you will keep working on this game.
I think you were right. Right on the money for the entire time.
In the long run, your design philosophy is better than many of the other ones.

I would love to see more bosses, customization, loot, story and so on in this setup. It reminds me a bit of Diablo, and even some of the older MUDs I toyed with as a kid. It's fun just going to quickly kill a boss and find something cool. It's nice to really just be able to do something quick.

Now it has reached a point where I can just play it on a silly little Netbook and have fun. Yeah, so I guess in total I would love just to have more of Guild Wars. I would love to pay for an expansion like Utopia for the game.


I also think it could be really cool if Guild Wars 2 players had further aspirations and motivations to go back and play Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 is a different error, but I think it would really show commitment if you(Arenanet) would make an effort to keep people interested in Guild Wars 1.
I don't know if you wanted to experiment on GW1 for things you were planning for GW2, or add a mode similiar to Hardcore from Diablo, or Revamp the PvP or add some very hard Bosses or very hard-to-get-loot, but it would be very appreciated!
This game is so fun, and I have a long list of things I would still like to see in the game.

I know that GW2 will probably be quite different, and that's okay. GW2 will be a different game, but that's okay since GW1 is still here. We can always enjoy them both, as long as there are people playing both!

I love your rant. Very strong points were the fact that there is an end to the game, but plenty left to play, and titles can give you tons of extra play.

I think there's a lot of true comments in your OP. Yet I think that MMO is a new genre from traditionall games, the same way facebook or twitter are changing the way we communicate (an evolution rather than a revolution). People have (relatively) more free time and are more willing to invest it in virtual worlds, GW is no exception. Despite what you describe seems like a sensible approach to GW, many people are sort of "addicted" to it, but hopefully not in the sense of WoW or other P2P MMOs.

You're wrong on 2 minor accounts IMO: GW2 will follow the main lines of GW1 (as Anet has said time and time again) and:

Actually, "chess" is never-ending. It's different from a "chess game" which would be akin to a quest/mission in GW. But I'm nitpicking!

guild wars is an amazing game that nobody here seems to give credit to for. you're right. a lot has been done to the game since release, and there's always going to be more the community wants to be done -- and for 4 years and change, the developers have been throwing new things, big and small, at us pretty steadily. being as guild wars is so much more different than any other mmo, and was truly original in many ways, of course it'll have it's flaws for the first game of it's series.

i do agree that oddly i don't feel addicted to guild wars as i have felt about other games. i don't feel like i GOTTA play (well, maybe on double fame weekends but that's it), just play at my own leisure and be cool with it.

i've played lots of MMOs, most of which i disliked, and i try my best not to take all this for granted and give anet some well deserved support when i can. it's nice to have a game i thoroughly enjoy to play in my off time to relax and have fun with.

Great post. Agree with a lot said there. Looking forward to GW2 as well and hope Anet keep up the good work and the very unique design philosophy.

This. The low & early level cap is what every MMO should use, imo. Instead of this "grind to 60, grind end gear, grind to 70 with next expansion, grind new gear" etc etc.

Having a cap on things permanently is great. I just hope GW2 puts the emphasis back on PvP as end-game, and not title grinding.

I did that for 2 years in EverQuest II until I snapped and rage quit. Similar to WoW, EQ2 as well as other same type MMOs are just plain deadly diseases.

I think OP has very strong points and I agree with it a lot.

you have some good points. quality post

Love the post OP and i believe that GW1 does in fact have some potential left to it.


Such as explaining how the heck the Charr managed to conquer Ascalon while my Warrior was there....

actually you can't. the reasoning behind this is very technical and complicated, but in a nutshell you can't jump because the spacebar is already being used as the attack button. anet has stated that they are trying to fix this dilemma for guild wars 2.

lol.

This dilema is of dire concern and the technical problems of jumping must be solved before Anet can even think of releasing GW2

Jumping is kinda pointless. A person can't really jump that high anyways. More useful would be a climb function.

GW is the best game because it's the game I chose.
I chose GW because it was the best game out there.

It can't get simpler. Although you can elaborate more saying things like: "You can leave it for 3 months and you won't be left behind by your leveled friends" or "You won't have to spend 30 minutes walking to go from city to city" or "You won't have to pay monthly fees".

The huge problem is ArenaNet is diverting their attention to GW2 and for good reasons.

I make games as a hobbie and when I look at guild wars and look at one of my best games I spent 100+ hours on. Guild Wars is astonishing. Free to play, 1,000's of skills to balance, super deep lore, and then list can go forever.
GW2 will be started from scratch with a new physics engine, skills/abilities spread across 4 races, new storyline. If you want GW2 in the next 2 years, let them work on it as much as possible.

Play Monster Hunter 3, then come back and dare tell me it's useless.
(To save you time, MH3 is all about dodging foes attacks. Armor is good but it won't keep you alive for long)

If you look at GW2 trailer, the jumping looks real. No doubt it will cost energy to hop around so you can't spam it like in WoW. Comparing the jumping function in the two games, GW2 looks super real. From the leg lifts to the landing.

It's refreshing to see a post that is actually congratulating A-Net instead of getting angry at them for something they did or didn't do.

I vote for pvp emote of grabbing said climber and pulling their pants down on accident.

@Lawnmower: First you say it's a curse that mmo's never end and at the same time you say you would love more content in GW. GW1 has ended, which I still think was a bad idea, they should have at least continued to bring out an expansion or two until GW2. Especially because it uses the MTG model. They didn't have the recources though so case closed.

I also don't agree with your part about being addictive and using it to run away from one's responsabilities. It's perfecly possible that one is 'addicted' to gaming, but finds a good balance between work, daily duties, socialising and free time to play. I know several people like that in real life. One of my friends turns into a hardcore gaming monster for a weekend two times a year when the kids and the wife are out of town. I see the kid in his eyes when that happens. The rest of the year he's the perfect husband with a respectable job who plays casually.

Progressing character(s) is indeed what it is all about. That's why it shouldn't have ended after Eotn. It left me and some of my gaming friends without new challenges in GW. The art is to satisfy both the casual and the hardcore gamer without too much grind. This is a difficult thing to achieve, especially without recources.

Don't get me wrong, Anet indeed have set a new standard. And I agree with you that in other MMO's it feels different. It's like they drag everything to make sure people keep on subscribing. I'm totally against that model.

I'm tired and should have gone to bed, but instead I wanted to comment on your post because you took the time yourself too. I'll reread everything again tomorrow in case I missed the point(s).

I had that experience with LOTRO and got bored. It seems every MMO company thinks raising the level cap is the best/only way to add more content, and GW is proof that's not the case.

Don't underestimate the ability to jump people! Not being able to do it completely killed Ghost Recon for me

Jumpings fun for the 1st 20 mins or so, and then you get bored of it.

I can totally see this happening.

jumping is only good for getting to ptA and ptB faster. if we are gunna have jumping we might as well have manualy aimed skill and attacks.

lol why are people posting about jumping? this thread has nothing to do with that

^agree with this statement. Unlike other MMO's where the whole point of the expansion is to get better weps and armor and such, GW's expansions (and campaigns ofc) hand you new options and skills and of course new armors/weps. What's nice about GW though is that A-net is more concerned about the skills you use than what armor you have. A warrior let's say with full knight's insignias on his FoW armor will have the exact same matchup against a warrior with canthan 1k armor and knight's insignias. In a 1 on 1 matchup though, the game is decided on the guy with the better bar, not the better armor, which I absolutely love about GW compared to other MMOs

Jumping is contagious and terribly fun.


Perfect world, as an example. Every three feet I jump. Just for ghits and siggles.

It may not have a point, but it's fun working that z-axis for all it's worth.

Just the concept of the z-axis means that I can't swing my sword at that guy down there, yes, that one, under the bridge.

Richard Bartle who is said to be the actual father of MUDs(Multi User Dugeons) and therefore also the grandfather to the MMORPG, was once quoted saying that the games didn't have any point.
All he wanted to do in those text based games, was to let friends share the experience together. So that became the fundamental goal.
To add meaning to the game he decided to implant levels, and once the players in the dungeon had gotten a several level(the max level) they would have won the game. It was about getting to the max level and that was it.

Somewhere along the line on the path to the MMORPG, it became a never ending evolution of content that was not designed to end. I suspect this is due to the subscription model. Think business first, then game design secondly. If subscribers would not keep playing(and paying) the game would not be a suffient business model.

Guild Wars not only broke the mold here, but it went oppesite direction. Levels are not a priority. It just begins when you are at the end. It's like Guild Wars is so much more optimistic and proactive than other online RPGs because it just gives you the gameplay and begs you play and experiment as you choose. To have your own fun, and not be hurled through the system.

The system of paying monthly fee(which they said couldn't be done), the system of not putting emphasis on Items(which they said wouldn't be fun). Guild Wars really broke so much new ground and went the oppesite way compared to so many RPGs.


Yes, the Guild Wars campaign have ended and I have gotten my money worth. I still go back to do the extras, at my own pace, as I am not rushed by the thought of getting the most out of my money(if I was paying for a fee) or if the characters would keep getting significantly(in an overpowered way) stronger for longer time investment.
But just because it has ended, I am saying that I would love to see more for Guild Wars 1, in either downloadable form or an expansion.

Everything has it's day. Except for never-ending MMOs and the people who burn out from playing them. This is true.


But I do think a creation like Guild Wars deserves to be watered and nursed for a long and healthy life, as it has so far. I do think that all the effort that went into it have not been wasted, and I think it's position in the business has not been hurtful, like so many games in the MMORPG genre.


As for the part of being Addicted, if it's only for two weeks, is it then addiction? Then I would personally say that it's more like a short term enthusiastic interest.
Though I can't comment on addiction patterns for every person. I am merely speaking about the forum posts I read around the internet from people who blame games like World of Warcraft for putting on weight, losing their girlfriend, quitting school and so on.

Good grief - what a positive thread. Are all our regular trolls asleep?

Bravo, OP - I agree with eveything you said.

but not everyone who plays MMO's likes to pvp to end game focus on PvP isn't the greatest idea

Guild Wars is one of the best games I've ever played.
Any QQers can go shove it.

I mean, it has some flaws, but so did Seiken Densetsu 3. And that's often regarded as one of the best SNES games ever made (Was Japanese only though, but a near-perfect translation patch is available.)

your right that other games simply add more content but do not change the formula, which can get boring to some people; however, to other people this can be seen as a good thing. was guild wars better off evolving with every update? sure it may have spiced things up, but all i have seen is the skill>time formula being broken with increased grinding/farming. pve has been dumbed down and pvp has been imbalanced. gw has a lot of great things about it, but i miss the "old" gw.

I'm not sure if I'm a troll, but my posts do get deleted and I was actually asleep.

I happen to agree and like the starting post of this thread. It's just a shame Anet can't fix certain play styles and decided to make the game solo-able. Guild Wars was a group game (with people or AI). The progression is the main thing keeping me playing...and the hope that Anet will try to improve things.

I'll come in to troll a bit.

I just have one question...how was Guild Wars right? (Please simpify I'm too lazy to read a long post atm).

This depends upon your playstyle. The serious PvP-ers have always been compelled to upgrade. If the new content has even one essential skill, you're stuck buying it if you want to continue with serious PvP.

If all you want to do is play the campaigns, and you don't mind using heroes or playing with bad PuGs, then you are absolutely correct. If you want to play with more capable players, you'd better have the skills that make completion efficient.

This is a tactic. Psychological research shows that people have difficulty judging sunk costs properly, so if you can make the sunk cost as large as possible you can extract maximum revenue. By making the decision all-or-nothing, the gaming company gets people to continue their subscriptions far longer than they otherwise might.

Valve has a LOT more resources than ANet does. It's pretty clear from behavior that ANet isn't going to follow this strategy.

Keep in mind that Valve's pretty smart about reputation, too. They don't engage in this intense level of upkeep with every game they release (eg: Left 4 Dead). But they recognize that people are more likely to buy their games if they invest heavily in them, given that they attain a certain level of popularity.

The frustrating part about the business model ANet has created is that it gives them little incentive to reinvest in their existing games. Valve puts out more products, has a wide reach, and wants to keep people using their Steam service to sell them games. It makes sense for Valve to dump resources into their games to keep people buying their products and logging onto Steam.

ANet 's business model makes them like an author of books that peak around #10-20 on the bestseller lists. They don't generate a large enough revenue stream to permit the ability to invest large amounts of resources in each new endeavor. The best way for them to keep the light bill paid is to release one piece of stellar work that builds a fan base, followed by regularly cranking out average but unimaginative content.

Well, there was a lot more behind the scenes that made me snap and finally quit if you want the full story just look it up on my GWW page. And yes, GW is proof that unique MMOs can succeed.

Eh, so you're saying your bar determines how well you play, not your own brain and skill? That would suck for meta builds xD

I lol'd first time I did that ^^

^ This. Someone did call for trolling after all.

I do think that brand itself is important. For example if you look at the way Warcraft got big, it was sort of the same thing. It was an evolution, and by supporting each game, the fanbase just got bigger. Blizzard became a brand, and Battle.Net became a brand.

I think that alone the fact that people know your brand is a fantastic thing. Some people say that bad PR is better than no PR as well. I don't think GW has a bad rep, but it could be stronger.
Four years ago, ArenaNet had to prove to many nay-sayers who said that the game wouldn't sustain an income even after a month.

Even now, four years later, you have games with a similiar Instanced set-up like Crimecraft and Global Agenda, who decide to charge a forced monthly fee despite being heavily instanced.

I believe that if people get to see more that ArenaNet is keeping GW1 alive, that they want to have a bigger initiative later on to invest in GW2, because it sends a messege about that if GW1 was supported for many years and even after the sequels release, GW2 would also be, and that would be worth to pay for. The consumer makes an investment based on what they know, what they have heard from friends and the general media.

You reap what you sow, so to speak. I do think that there are many misconceptions surrounding GW. It's different, and the learning curve is incredible high(in my opinion) compared to other games, and I think many players got their wrong foot through the door and decided that it was not for them.

If we try to adress(The community, and Anet) some of these issues that people would like to see more of, like a harder challenge(bigger difficulty), 1 vs 1 pvp, or more armor designs or more titles, then I am sure that it will be worth it.
Because it sends a signal that they care and that they want people to keep playing GW1.

It all comes back to you. And mate, I do think it's true that people buy what they know. That's why I don't think GW has "ended". The campaign ends when it ends, but like many other games you can stick around for 100% completion, practice at it's mechanics(pvp) or going through the experience again(playing another character).

Well, I think that owning more campaigns and expansions, gives you a wide aray of choice of skills, and classes, but that it's basically balanced so no skill is better than another one, which means that any person should be able to create a build regardless of how many or how few games they own.

This I think is an important initiative to illustrate the difference between GW and other games. YOU have to buy the latest expansions to be able to get the skills, levels and abillities that will be significantly better than the ones that you have the possibility of accessing.

No emphasis on levels, No montlies, game is about build experimentation and your own fun.

Basically, similar to Ultima Online is still considered best of mmos by people who actually played and: Game pour Game, character customizability, no levels or any other artificial goals, just play for sake of being in fantasy world being somehing.