Something wicked this way comes...
Unendingfear
We now know exactly where Dhumm is! ^-^ http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Somet...This_Way_Comes
Free Runner
Its funny how a holiday quest tells us things we've been waiting four years to confirm.
So from the quest we can gather:
- Grenth beat Dhuum by gaining the support of the Reapers. But he didnt actually destroy him, he simply imprisoned him much like Abaddon but in a dormant state.
- Dhuums energy is fueled by the death of creatures in the Underworld (a nice reference to UWSC aswell)
And strangely he has the title "Ender of All". The final judge. Its almost like the quest is saying Dhuum takes things further than death (Possibly why the Reapers and Grenth rose against him). From the quest i got the idea it was saying Dhuum didnt allow people to simply become spirits, instead ending them altogether, but that remains to be seen.
Also funny enough the quest confirms something we speculated about in my Mad King Thorn thread last year - Thorn is a Spirit Lord. This was a fantastic move by Anet - introducing anticipated lore in a quest chain that slowly plays out. The last line "Dhuum is coming!" was great.
(On a side note: The whole Dhuum being forced into being dormant and slumbering until now reminds me of the current situation with the elder dragons, only without the forced part)
So from the quest we can gather:
- Grenth beat Dhuum by gaining the support of the Reapers. But he didnt actually destroy him, he simply imprisoned him much like Abaddon but in a dormant state.
- Dhuums energy is fueled by the death of creatures in the Underworld (a nice reference to UWSC aswell)
And strangely he has the title "Ender of All". The final judge. Its almost like the quest is saying Dhuum takes things further than death (Possibly why the Reapers and Grenth rose against him). From the quest i got the idea it was saying Dhuum didnt allow people to simply become spirits, instead ending them altogether, but that remains to be seen.
Also funny enough the quest confirms something we speculated about in my Mad King Thorn thread last year - Thorn is a Spirit Lord. This was a fantastic move by Anet - introducing anticipated lore in a quest chain that slowly plays out. The last line "Dhuum is coming!" was great.
(On a side note: The whole Dhuum being forced into being dormant and slumbering until now reminds me of the current situation with the elder dragons, only without the forced part)
Unendingfear
I know, it's turning me into a lore fanatic ^_^
Devastating Flames
i cant wait till the rest of the quest come out let c this guy lol hmmm i wonder if they nerf uwsc after lol
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
Grenth beat Dhuum by gaining the support of the Reapers. But he didnt actually destroy him, he simply imprisoned him much like Abaddon but in a dormant state.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
And strangely he has the title "Ender of All". The final judge. Its almost like the quest is saying Dhuum takes things further than death. From the quest i got the idea it was saying Dhuum didnt allow people to simply become spirits, instead ending them altogether, but that remains to be seen.
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
Also funny enough the quest confirms something we speculated about in my Mad King Thorn thread last year - Thorn is a Spirit Lord. This was a fantastic move by Anet - introducing anticipated lore in a quest chain that slowly plays out. The last line "Dhuum is coming!" was great.
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The quest added lots of lore. And fellas, lets leave the thread to lore please.
Arghore
Wonder if he/she realy looks like an insect 
Gmr Leon
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
- Grenth beat Dhuum by gaining the support of the Reapers. But he didnt actually destroy him, he simply imprisoned him much like Abaddon but in a dormant state.
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Obrien Xp
Anyone think that anets implementation of the idea that killing in UW makes Dhuum stronger has anything to do with UWSC being the meta. I love how playing impacts lore like this. <3 Anet!
BloodyGoneGirly
we must stop this madness Dhuum returning <.< i knew killing stuff in UW is very unhealthy no worry Grenth must have some sort of plan 
Braxton619
Yes the way they say "All the deaths of UW are powering Dhumm" is signaling the death to UWSC.
Great plot in my opinion. Way to go ANET!
Great plot in my opinion. Way to go ANET!
jonnieboi05
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Originally Posted by Leet Tankur
Yes the way they say "All the deaths of UW are powering Dhumm" is signaling the death to UWSC.
Great plot in my opinion. Way to go ANET! |
On-topic: This is sure to be insteresting the more it unfolds.
~LeNa~
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
And strangely he has the title "Ender of All". The final judge. Its almost like the quest is saying Dhuum takes things further than death (Possibly why the Reapers and Grenth rose against him). From the quest i got the idea it was saying Dhuum didnt allow people to simply become spirits, instead ending them altogether, but that remains to be seen.
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Either way, you can bet I'll be watching this Halloween's events with interest... and a virtual notebook.
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Originally Posted by Leet Tankur
Yes the way they say "All the deaths of UW are powering Dhumm" is signaling the death to UWSC.
Great plot in my opinion. Way to go ANET! |
BrettM
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
This also helps against the idea of Abaddon returning like Dhuum. Abaddon, who was killed, is unlike Dhuum's case.
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I have to wonder: if Dhuum has been imprisoned since Grenth overthrew him, how is it he was able to cooperate with Abaddon's schemes? Could it be that some highly-placed underling of Dhuum (an Emissary or one of his generals) took it upon himself to speak for his master and make the alliance?
Thalador Doomspeaker
What BrettM says is true. Grenth made the most terrible mistake of all. He left alive a god, who wishes to end all life forever, changing the fundamental rules of life, death and undeath in the process, drastically.
We can't know if Abaddon is dead after all. Perhaps he lost all of his knowledge and power, and became the mortal he was from the very beginning. Without knowing that he was a god once, only remembering his mortal life.
I'm really curious about Dhuum's appearance, though. I still not believe that he is insectoid.
Yeah, however it reminds me of the Lich King's former state from Warcraft. Forced into that magical ice, which is in our case magical doors and layers of divine magic. Perhaps he was able to telepathically command his troops into following Abaddon.
Edit: I really wish I had written 'Dhuumspeaker' instead of 'Doomspeaker'. :P
We can't know if Abaddon is dead after all. Perhaps he lost all of his knowledge and power, and became the mortal he was from the very beginning. Without knowing that he was a god once, only remembering his mortal life.
I'm really curious about Dhuum's appearance, though. I still not believe that he is insectoid.
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
On a side note: The whole Dhuum being forced into being dormant and slumbering until now reminds me of the current situation with the elder dragons, only without the forced part
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Edit: I really wish I had written 'Dhuumspeaker' instead of 'Doomspeaker'. :P
Free Runner
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Originally Posted by BrettM
Could it be that some highly-placed underling of Dhuum (an Emissary or one of his generals) took it upon himself to speak for his master and make the alliance?
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Also Dhuums forces completely took over the Underworld at one point, yet Dhuum didnt budge at all. My guess is theres something commanding them and that the original takeover of the Underworld was an attempt to find a way to wake Dhuum - with the first stage being sealing away those who trapped him (the Reapers).
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Konig has countersuggested that there are spirits in other locations they could summon, but the UW would logically be the best source.
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Something of a shame from my point of view if it does lead to drastic changes, however, since I haven't had the opportunity to do an UW clear the old-fashioned way.
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Originally Posted by BrettM
Who ever said that Abaddon was killed? When Kormir took his power, she only said "his will is broken", which implies his continued existence. Olias says he is dead, but implies that he still has some form of existence that must be dealt with ("Grenth will not make the mistake that the other gods did").
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And no, that doesn't go against what I said.Quote:
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Originally Posted by BrettM
I have to wonder: if Dhuum has been imprisoned since Grenth overthrew him, how is it he was able to cooperate with Abaddon's schemes? Could it be that some highly-placed underling of Dhuum (an Emissary or one of his generals) took it upon himself to speak for his master and make the alliance?
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That's my opinion on what is the case.
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Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker
We can't know if Abaddon is dead after all. Perhaps he lost all of his knowledge and power, and became the mortal he was from the very beginning. Without knowing that he was a god once, only remembering his mortal life.
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Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker
I'm really curious about Dhuum's appearance, though. I still not believe that he is insectoid.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker
Yeah, however it reminds me of the Lich King's former state from Warcraft. Forced into that magical ice, which is in our case magical doors and layers of divine magic. Perhaps he was able to telepathically command his troops into following Abaddon.
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Unendingfear
If anyone has read the newest quest dialogue, the reapers say that it is inevitable Dhumm will be released. : o
Free Runner
The Reapers also make it very clear that he is the end. They also mention how "Dhuum" is just one of many names given to him.
Konig Des Todes
Lore of today's quest:
I wonder, what is the Void? Is it like the Rift and the Mists?
Talking with Thalador and Daniel Frozenwind - we came with the same idea (uninfluenced by each other) that is, the opposite of the Mists. Going off of my spirit theory, the Mists is what takes in the energy from destroyed spirits, and recreates it. The Void, takes spirit energy, but doesn't reuse it. It would be the true death. Only (known) way to get sent there - a soul eaten by a demon, or scarab, maybe more.
- It seems that the Reaper of the Chaos Planes thought Dhuum dead. Perhaps only Ice King Frozenwind knew of Dhuum's surviving.
- The Reapers like flattery. Except for the Reaper of the Spawning Pools.
- Dhuum's release is inevitable.
- Dhuum has many names: The Final Judge, The Ender of All, Emperor of Oblivion,Master of Nothingness, Death Inevitable, The Mouth at the End of Darkness, the Omega Death, the Voice in the Void are some.
- Mad King Thorn is also called the Autumn Lunatic.
- Mention of "the Void" and the "Song of Dhuum"
I wonder, what is the Void? Is it like the Rift and the Mists?
Talking with Thalador and Daniel Frozenwind - we came with the same idea (uninfluenced by each other) that is, the opposite of the Mists. Going off of my spirit theory, the Mists is what takes in the energy from destroyed spirits, and recreates it. The Void, takes spirit energy, but doesn't reuse it. It would be the true death. Only (known) way to get sent there - a soul eaten by a demon, or scarab, maybe more.
HawkofStorms
I did like the addition of unique personalities to the Reapers. Some seem more cracked then others
Micro215
I honestly just laughed when I heard the reaper's quote of being an emissary to the autumn lunatic. Can't wait for more of the story to unfold tomorrow
Thalador Doomspeaker
With this, we've also gained confirmation that the darkest tone of black, true evil exists (from the viewpoint of life and all its counterparts, even the normal death). I think that Dhuum does not only want to erase life from the Universe of Guild Wars, but change the fundamental rules of life and death. In my opinion, this would mean that it in this alternaty (which differs from us in every way), in this Void, life would mean death and death would mean life.
I don't think so. Demons, scarabs, they are both part of the same Universe, they are living, and they were created from the Mists like everything else.
In A Tasty Morsel, the spirit consumed by Rebirther Jirath returns from the belly of the Margonite. After we've killed it, of course.
And in The Monk's Path:
It seems that both of them, the Eater of Souls and Jirath (thus all of the Margonites and demons) eat souls to stay alive and produce energy for themselves. It's their (un)natural food. I think they have a special stomach which digest the soul. How does that happen, I don't know.
Putting this together, it means that the energy does not disappear, it will power another being. Thus the energy gets reused.
Dhuum would destroy (our*) energy and matter forever, without the hope that they would ever return.
*As I've mentioned earlier, the Void differs from the Mists in every way. This way it has an own "energy" and "matter". Let's call it dark energy and dark matter. (But not in the way as it is theorized in our Universe. Although who knows? It might turn out that there's a Darkness in our Universe as well. A true Darkness that seeks to end life once and for all...)
And I'm also glad that there's something much more worse than the dragons. The Elder Dragons corrupt, dominate and destroy, but at least they create life with their breath and they don't want to eradicate life forever.
Until then: The Emperor of Oblivion is coming...
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Only (known) way to get sent there - a soul eaten by a demon, or scarab, maybe more.
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In A Tasty Morsel, the spirit consumed by Rebirther Jirath returns from the belly of the Margonite. After we've killed it, of course.
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Originally Posted by Kwalanah
Thank you so much for freeing me from the belly of that accursed beast! I was such a fool to think he could grant us a second chance at life. It's not that I'm unhappy. I just wish Charen and I had lived together longer before we met our untimely end. Now I realize that I should be thankful for what I have.
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Originally Posted by Nausuan
In a place called Diviner's Ascent lives a foul demon, the Eater of Souls. Destroy this monster and set free those it has imprisoned within its belly.
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Putting this together, it means that the energy does not disappear, it will power another being. Thus the energy gets reused.
Dhuum would destroy (our*) energy and matter forever, without the hope that they would ever return.
*As I've mentioned earlier, the Void differs from the Mists in every way. This way it has an own "energy" and "matter". Let's call it dark energy and dark matter. (But not in the way as it is theorized in our Universe. Although who knows? It might turn out that there's a Darkness in our Universe as well. A true Darkness that seeks to end life once and for all...)
And I'm also glad that there's something much more worse than the dragons. The Elder Dragons corrupt, dominate and destroy, but at least they create life with their breath and they don't want to eradicate life forever.
Until then: The Emperor of Oblivion is coming...
Konig Des Todes
While the spirit hasn't been fully consumed, killing the consumer would free the spirit. In my opinion, once the energy of the spirit is fully consumed, the spirit is gone - though the energy is not.
But wouldn't Dhuum, also, be made from the Mists? If the Void (assuming it is actually new lore) is the opposite of the Mists like believed, then it wouldn't produce life - not even Dhuum. And just to throw a wrench, if demons and scarabs cannot send things to the Void due to being created from the Mists, then neither would Dhuum.
No matter the specific form of death, I think that a normal spiritual death sends the spirit/spiritual energy to the Mists (for instance, us killing Shiro and Khilbron in the Gate of Madness sent them to the Mists). But certain forms of death sends the spirit to the Void where the energy is trapped for eternity. "Death beyond death" instead of "life beyond death". And Dhuum knows how and wants to send things to the Void.
But either way, I like how Dhuum was made worse than the Elder Dragons.
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Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker
I don't think so. Demons, scarabs, they are both part of the same Universe, they are living, and they were created from the Mists like everything else.
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No matter the specific form of death, I think that a normal spiritual death sends the spirit/spiritual energy to the Mists (for instance, us killing Shiro and Khilbron in the Gate of Madness sent them to the Mists). But certain forms of death sends the spirit to the Void where the energy is trapped for eternity. "Death beyond death" instead of "life beyond death". And Dhuum knows how and wants to send things to the Void.
But either way, I like how Dhuum was made worse than the Elder Dragons.
BrettM
Something puzzles me. Kormir became a god by absorbing a god's power. I think the consensus has always been that Grenth did something similar. However, it sounds very much like Dhuum still has power and a LOT of it, or there would be no reason to fear his waking. If so, then where did Grenth get his power? Was he always a being of god-like power, who simply promoted himself to acknowledged godhood by displacing Dhuum? If so, what might this imply about Menzies?
Thalador Doomspeaker
I'm starting to think that Grenth did not take Dhuum's power, but only usurped his throne. It does not say anything about taking his power, only this:
It also confirms that this Reaper believed that Dhuum was dead. Until now...
Now, if he had taken Dhuum's power, he could've slain Dhuum. This strongly implies that Grenth just took the mantle of God of Death and imprisoned Dhuum while hoping that he would never return again. The Ender of All was still strong, though the enchanted doors and the layers of divine magic could've kept him contained forever. But Grenth didn't think about Final Judge's unique ability (could be due to the connection with the Void), which draws power from the death of others.
The better question would be: how did Grenth reach the power that is almost equal to the current gods'? Perhaps they did harness the power of the Elder Dragons, or were always that powerful?
And the most important question: Where did Dhuum come from? How did he become that powerful?
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Originally Posted by King Frozenwind
Long have the bards sung of Grenth's defeat of Dhuum, the former ruler of the Underworld. With the help of the rebellious Reapers, Grenth usurped Dhuum's throne. But the books and songs only tell part of the tale. You see, Dhuum was not fully destroyed; Grenth was simply not powerful enough to slay him. Instead, he forced Dhuum into a state of dormancy and imprisoned him within the Hall of Judgment, trapped behind massive enchanted doors and layers of divine magic.
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Originally Posted by Reaper of the Chaos Planes
Before the time of Grenth, when death was ruled by a cruel and unjust god, there stood a tower and a throne on this very plain. But Grenth rose up and destroyed the one called Dhuum and shattered down his tower, leaving only these storms of chaos as a reminder of the power once held dominion here.
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Now, if he had taken Dhuum's power, he could've slain Dhuum. This strongly implies that Grenth just took the mantle of God of Death and imprisoned Dhuum while hoping that he would never return again. The Ender of All was still strong, though the enchanted doors and the layers of divine magic could've kept him contained forever. But Grenth didn't think about Final Judge's unique ability (could be due to the connection with the Void), which draws power from the death of others.
The better question would be: how did Grenth reach the power that is almost equal to the current gods'? Perhaps they did harness the power of the Elder Dragons, or were always that powerful?
And the most important question: Where did Dhuum come from? How did he become that powerful?
Gmr Leon
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Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker
With this, we've also gained confirmation that the darkest tone of black, true evil exists (from the viewpoint of life and all its counterparts, even the normal death). I think that Dhuum does not only want to erase life from the Universe of Guild Wars, but change the fundamental rules of life and death. In my opinion, this would mean that it in this alternaty (which differs from us in every way), in this Void, life would mean death and death would mean life.
Dhuum would destroy (our*) energy and matter forever, without the hope that they would ever return. *As I've mentioned earlier, the Void differs from the Mists in every way. This way it has an own "energy" and "matter". Let's call it dark energy and dark matter. (But not in the way as it is theorized in our Universe. Although who knows? It might turn out that there's a Darkness in our Universe as well. A true Darkness that seeks to end life once and for all...) And I'm also glad that there's something much more worse than the dragons. The Elder Dragons corrupt, dominate and destroy, but at least they create life with their breath and they don't want to eradicate life forever. |
This isn't to say Konig isn't either (seriously, thinking Mad King Thorn really had a pony! Such a poignant offense!) mind you.
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Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker
The better question would be: how did Grenth reach the power that is almost equal to the current gods'? Perhaps they did harness the power of the Elder Dragons, or were always that powerful?
And the most important question: Where did Dhuum come from? How did he become that powerful? |
As to where Dhuum came from..Until we find out more, it may best to just assume he was like Abaddon, usurping his predecessor and, like the case with Kormir, seizing its power.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by GmrLeon
This isn't to say Konig isn't either (seriously, thinking Mad King Thorn really had a pony! Such a poignant offense!) mind you.
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I have two ideas on Grenth, for how he is a god now, since Dhuum didn't die.
- Grenth knows of a way to steal a part of a gods' power - thus he stole some of Dhuum's power to become the God of Death, and some of Abaddon's power to become the God of Ice.
- More likely (in my opinion), Grenth was the God of Ice before fighting Dhuum, but was weaker than Dhuum, thus needing the help of the Reapers.
Gmr Leon
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
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Abaddon
Balthazar
Dhuum
Dwayna
Grenth
Lyssa
Melandru
With Grenth ruling over ice and Abaddon ruling over water...That still strikes me as a bit too overlapping.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker
What BrettM says is true. Grenth made the most terrible mistake of all. He left alive a god, who wishes to end all life forever, changing the fundamental rules of life, death and undeath in the process, drastically.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thalador Dhuumspeaker
Yeah, however it reminds me of the Lich King's former state from Warcraft. Forced into that magical ice, which is in our case magical doors and layers of divine magic. Perhaps he was able to telepathically command his troops into following Abaddon.
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Originally Posted by Thalador Dragonspeaker
Edit: I really wish I had written 'Dhuumspeaker' instead of 'Doomspeaker'. :P
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Which is true. However, new spirits seem to have to go to the Underworld (unless they get "special treatment" like Shiro and Ural).
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Only (known) way to get sent there - a soul eaten by a demon, or scarab, maybe more.
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Originally Posted by BrettM
Was he always a being of god-like power, who simply promoted himself to acknowledged godhood by displacing Dhuum? If so, what might this imply about Menzies?
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'Tis possible, although we don't know how much power Grenth has gathered since by being in charge of the UW - this might mean that even if Grenth and Menzies were both at a similar level once, Grenth could be well ahead now. (Possibly even strong enough to take Dhuum out if he DOES come back through those doors... be an interesting twist, although the literal Deus Ex Machina may prove unsatisfying.)
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Originally Posted by Gmr Leon
With Grenth ruling over ice and Abaddon ruling over water...That still strikes me as a bit too overlapping.
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Or maybe the overlap isn't actually a problem - we could postulate, for instance, that Grenth was originally a minor demigod of cold, possibly under Abaddon's auspices, that got himself promoted by seizing the Underworld off Dhuum (possibly, even likely, with the support of the other gods).
Thalador Doomspeaker
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Originally Posted by Draxynnic
Or maybe the overlap isn't actually a problem - we could postulate, for instance, that Grenth was originally a minor demigod of cold, possibly under Abaddon's auspices, that got himself promoted by seizing the Underworld off Dhuum (possibly, even likely, with the support of the other gods).
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Although, King Frozenwind said that Grenth had usurped Dhuum with the help of the seven rebellious reapers.
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Originally Posted by King Frozenwind
Long have the bards sung of Grenth's defeat of Dhuum, the former ruler of the Underworld. With the help of the rebellious Reapers, Grenth usurped Dhuum's throne.
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Nuime
I know this may be a bit of a stretch... but I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Dhuum have somewhat of a dragon appearance (if we ever get to see him!). I know all the time-line stuff says that the Elder Dragons existed before The Six, but does that only apply to the current 6? Perhaps one of these Dragons somehow became a god at some point rather than going into that hibernation-like state like the rest? Possibly even before that point. I mean... the "Underworld" could have existed before the gods since they apparently are a "newer" thing (in the grand scheme of things) so someone/thing would have had to rule over the Underworld before The Six even existed, possibly during the time of the Elder Dragons.
Though at that point I'm not sure what Dhuum's motivations would be for helping Abbadon rather than just working on getting out/waking up the other Elder Dragons would be if that were the case... Maybe some strange plot to raise Abbadon up to have him get rid of the other gods, have Abbadon help spring him from the Hall of Judgements and then crush him too. Taking the "pure evil" approach on that one.
Yeah I know... wild speculation with not a lot to back it up aside from the fact I could see Anet using this to try and make some sort of connection to GW2.
Of course I could be totally off base and it's more of just a "let's wrap up this story" thing and it'll have nothing to do with the Elder Dragons. ha ha. Just wanted to toss this into the mix, even if it's completely off base. It's just something that's been kinda nagging at my mind since this all started. Feel free to completely tell me why this isn't even a viable option, at least then my mind will shut up over this silly hypothesis.
Though at that point I'm not sure what Dhuum's motivations would be for helping Abbadon rather than just working on getting out/waking up the other Elder Dragons would be if that were the case... Maybe some strange plot to raise Abbadon up to have him get rid of the other gods, have Abbadon help spring him from the Hall of Judgements and then crush him too. Taking the "pure evil" approach on that one.
Yeah I know... wild speculation with not a lot to back it up aside from the fact I could see Anet using this to try and make some sort of connection to GW2.
Of course I could be totally off base and it's more of just a "let's wrap up this story" thing and it'll have nothing to do with the Elder Dragons. ha ha. Just wanted to toss this into the mix, even if it's completely off base. It's just something that's been kinda nagging at my mind since this all started. Feel free to completely tell me why this isn't even a viable option, at least then my mind will shut up over this silly hypothesis.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Actually, according to the quests, a soul eaten by a scarab (or even a demon - the completion of the Tasty Morsel quest actually does release Kwahlunah) is released on the death of the 'eater'. This could be a 'takes time to digest' thing, but the daughters in the Family Soul quest are released despite having been in Kephket's belly for centuries. It seems to me that souls eaten by a demon or scarab aren't destroyed, but rather imprisoned and used as a power source by the eater.
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Suggesting that he might be at least as powerful as Grenth?
'Tis possible, although we don't know how much power Grenth has gathered since by being in charge of the UW - this might mean that even if Grenth and Menzies were both at a similar level once, Grenth could be well ahead now. (Possibly even strong enough to take Dhuum out if he DOES come back through those doors... be an interesting twist, although the literal Deus Ex Machina may prove unsatisfying.) |
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
possibly the leader of the Reapers, although the different appearances must be noted
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Or maybe the overlap isn't actually a problem - we could postulate, for instance, that Grenth was originally a minor demigod of cold, possibly under Abaddon's auspices, that got himself promoted by seizing the Underworld off Dhuum (possibly, even likely, with the support of the other gods).
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nuime
I know this may be a bit of a stretch... but I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Dhuum have somewhat of a dragon appearance (if we ever get to see him!). I know all the time-line stuff says that the Elder Dragons existed before The Six, but does that only apply to the current 6? Perhaps one of these Dragons somehow became a god at some point rather than going into that hibernation-like state like the rest? Possibly even before that point. I mean... the "Underworld" could have existed before the gods since they apparently are a "newer" thing (in the grand scheme of things) so someone/thing would have had to rule over the Underworld before The Six even existed, possibly during the time of the Elder Dragons.
Though at that point I'm not sure what Dhuum's motivations would be for helping Abbadon rather than just working on getting out/waking up the other Elder Dragons would be if that were the case... Maybe some strange plot to raise Abbadon up to have him get rid of the other gods, have Abbadon help spring him from the Hall of Judgements and then crush him too. Taking the "pure evil" approach on that one. |
Unendingfear
We most likely will e fighting Dhuum in one form or another. I think he may be a Dervish 
Konig Des Todes
Due to new skills that were put up on the wiki (do we have proof they are truthful?), we will be fighting Dhuum, and he has two skills listed as "Scythe Attacks" - however, they have durations...
I'm skeptical on those skills.
I'm skeptical on those skills.
Unendingfear
I am a tad skeptical myself, but if they are true, that would be cool :P
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Kephket was recent to the area though, so the souls of the daughters might not have been eaten 200 years ago, but 3 (approx. time when Kephket arrived, I'd guess).
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Difference in appearance? We don't know what Grenth looks like. And the depictions of him put him similar to that of a Reaper - but with legs and a skull. For all we know, the legs could be a humanization and the skull could be a mask.
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Except for the "under Abaddon's auspices" part, that is what I was thinking. And could be the case for Menzies if so (Minor God of Shadows and Destructions). Perhaps, if these "minor gods" do exist, they are simply "Lords" (hence "Lord of Destuction" for Menzies), and Grenth was once a "Lord of Ice" - which may even have been taken over by Ice King Frozenwind, which would explain why he is seemingly the most knowledgeable servant of Grenth. If this is the case, we may even be able to call Thorn the "Lord of Madness" - assuming Thorn is on par in power to Ice King Frozenwind.
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Originally Posted by Nuime
Though at that point I'm not sure what Dhuum's motivations would be for helping Abbadon rather than just working on getting out/waking up the other Elder Dragons would be if that were the case... Maybe some strange plot to raise Abbadon up to have him get rid of the other gods, have Abbadon help spring him from the Hall of Judgements and then crush him too. Taking the "pure evil" approach on that one.
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Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
The impression I had from teh dialogue was that it happened shortly after tha father mercy-killed the daughters (likely when the father was still alive, or he would probably have been consumed by Kephket as well). Kephket may be a recent arrival to Prophet's Path, but she could have been hanging around the Arid Sea two hundred years ago.
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
We did know about the mask at least, though (are there any depictions of Grenth that shows he has legs, or might the legs of the Avatar of Grenth simply because the avatar form magic can only go so far)? That the mask is an affectation - or even a symbol of rank - would certainly explain that difference.
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Originally Posted by Grenth
Statues of Grenth depict the god with the body of a man and the skeletal head of a drawn-faced beast. Often, there are followers at his feet, grasping toward his open, clawed hands, clamoring for the powers the unforgiving deity may feel so inclined to heap upon his subjects.
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Interesting observations.
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Originally Posted by Clear the Chamber;Reaper of the Labyrinth
This area seems safer now. I hope that we will be granted an audience with Grenth soon.
May the Lord of Death treat you with mercy while you are in his realm. |
draxynnic
Ack! Tyop immortalised in quoting!
My point is that Kephket was a recent arrival - but she came from somewhere. My hypothesis is that she was in the Arid Sea at the time of Turai's pilgrimmage (probably attracted by the opportunity to pick off the stragglers along the way), left the area of the Prophecies map before Prophecies began (possibly south to Elona), finally moving to Prophet's Path and meeting her demise to some hero.
I also find it interesting that Kephket had to wait for the girls to die rather than just leading her brood in to claim them dead or alive. The obvious explanation is that she wasn't nearly so powerful back then, possibly just a regular Scarab of her brood or even a youngling.
My point is that Kephket was a recent arrival - but she came from somewhere. My hypothesis is that she was in the Arid Sea at the time of Turai's pilgrimmage (probably attracted by the opportunity to pick off the stragglers along the way), left the area of the Prophecies map before Prophecies began (possibly south to Elona), finally moving to Prophet's Path and meeting her demise to some hero.
I also find it interesting that Kephket had to wait for the girls to die rather than just leading her brood in to claim them dead or alive. The obvious explanation is that she wasn't nearly so powerful back then, possibly just a regular Scarab of her brood or even a youngling.
Jonii
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Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker
I'm really curious about Dhuum's appearance, though. I still not believe that he is insectoid.
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Lakdav
This "Void" reminds me of Void in the elder scrolls games. (In theory there is some connection between the daedra princes of the elder scrolls and the gods of GW universe lorewise).
In the elder scrolls, Sithis is the lord of the void (also patron deity of the dark brotherhood assassin guild). The Void is a state of some kind of ultimate non-existing. However Sithis is not a daedra, that much is certain.
Perhaps Dhuum is not a god in GW either. All the 6 gods have power over certain existing things, but Dhuum seems to draw pover from non-existing, from ultimate demise. From true death.
That said, Grenth could not kill Dhuum, becouse Dhuum himself holds the power of death, while Grenth's kind of death is more like a treshold to another state of being.
Grenth was a minor god or lord of ice, freezing (thus inprisoning) power. Thats all he could do. This said, Abaddon was not completely destroyed either, becouse the power of non-existing is not in the hands of any of the 5 or 6 gods.
I think Dhuum was there from the very beginning of the entire universe of GW, much like the "Nothing" from which "Something" was born. Kinda like Khaos from greek mythology.
In the elder scrolls, Sithis is the lord of the void (also patron deity of the dark brotherhood assassin guild). The Void is a state of some kind of ultimate non-existing. However Sithis is not a daedra, that much is certain.
Perhaps Dhuum is not a god in GW either. All the 6 gods have power over certain existing things, but Dhuum seems to draw pover from non-existing, from ultimate demise. From true death.
That said, Grenth could not kill Dhuum, becouse Dhuum himself holds the power of death, while Grenth's kind of death is more like a treshold to another state of being.
Grenth was a minor god or lord of ice, freezing (thus inprisoning) power. Thats all he could do. This said, Abaddon was not completely destroyed either, becouse the power of non-existing is not in the hands of any of the 5 or 6 gods.
I think Dhuum was there from the very beginning of the entire universe of GW, much like the "Nothing" from which "Something" was born. Kinda like Khaos from greek mythology.