Today, a PUG and I were doing a uw clear to get to Dhuum to kill him. We were about halfway through our 3 hour clear and a guy left, but left his computer and guildwars going even after we told him to log off(just because we didnt want him to get the end reward by leeching off of us). Thinking nothing of it, we trugged along and finally finished after 3 hours 5 minutes.
Extremely excited to try to kill him, we all went in. We then realized that we needed him to be here to start it. Since we could not all tele to one area, since there is a solo tele after you finish UW, we could do nothing at all. We attempted to pull things to kill him but nothing would pull that far. There should be a cut scene that teleports all players into the room, Or.. a function that allows a team to votekick after afk for 15-20min? We spent 3 hours of our night to try to get there, and once we did we had nothing to do but leave.
No, im not gonna sit here and whine and complain but itd be a nice feature to have if it ever happened again. Needless to say...it would have been much more fun to be able to fight Dhuum than just stare at him and make faces....
Dhuum thing
go cubs
deo_janus
I was part of the PUG and a feature like that really would've saved our whole night. Time consuming events like this should have systems like that boot option to help out the team, the ones actually trying beat the quest.
dr love
it just needs to have a cutscene and teleport thing like a lot of other stuff. but ye i could see that being a serious problem in pugs.
jonnieboi05
A boot feature like this would be a huge grief tool in the wrong hands (which is damn near 90% of the immature population)...
Typical Scenario: Monk fails to heal someone. The person dies. The person is called a noob and says "whatever, f--- you guys! Tell the monk l2Heal." Party Kicks players because of incompetent monk.
AKA: No sankyuu; Do not want.
Typical Scenario: Monk fails to heal someone. The person dies. The person is called a noob and says "whatever, f--- you guys! Tell the monk l2Heal." Party Kicks players because of incompetent monk.
AKA: No sankyuu; Do not want.
~LeNa~
Joe Fierce
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Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
A boot feature like this would be a huge grief tool in the wrong hands (which is damn near 90% of the immature population)...
Typical Scenario: Monk fails to heal someone. The person dies. The person is called a noob and says "whatever, f--- you guys! Tell the monk l2Heal." Party Kicks players because of incompetent monk. AKA: No sankyuu; Do not want. ~LeNa~ |
~Joe~
jonnieboi05
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
And that is a negative thing for them, they are losing out on a monk, or damage dealer, or tank, depending on who they vote out, it is not without punishment to both sides of the coin, those voting them out, as well as the person being booted. Obviously you've never been in a party in which a pug intentionally does everything at the end to make people fail. It would not be a grief tool because like I said, it has that punishment upon the others, losing a party memeber, that is, if they aren't like I said, intentionally making you fail.
~Joe~ |
edit: I am not sure if it was you or someone else who lacked reading comprehension on something I said but, I never said the monk was the one kicked in my scenario. Ever. It was the one who the monk LET DIE. Anyways. As I told the other person (if it was not you): Reading comprehention ftw!
~LeNa~
Joe Fierce
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Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
Riiiight... And allow me to swiftly and cunningly redirect you to Mr. /report; the pinnacle of what a "perfect answer" would be to counter your arguement that a boot feature would be a "good idea".
~LeNa~ |
~Fake signature~
jonnieboi05
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
It takes quite a few reports to actually get something done first off, second off, you are report happy.
~Fake signature~ |
Allow me to simply break it down for you in the former and latter, kiddo.
RA: If you do not /resign when your team tells you to (if you have 2 monks for example) they report spike you for leeching. Fair? No. But it is the reality of what goes on in RA and nothing about it will change anytime soon.
JQ: If someone in there who does not like you tells everyone "hey <insert name here> is leeching. /Report him/her." they all follow like puppies and you are screwed. Fair? No. But is the reality of what goes on in JQ and nothing about it will change anytime soon.
Those are just 2 examples of how /report is abused. You may carry on now with your less-intelligent counter-arguments about my "fake signature" (if you don't like it then you can get over it. It is my "custom mark" here on Guru).
~LeNa~
drkn
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| it just needs to have a cutscene and teleport thing like a lot of other stuff. but ye i could see that being a serious problem in pugs. |
adding a short cutscene shouldn't be that hard and it would save up a lot of issues.
Joe Fierce
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Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
You obviously do not play much RA or JQ. Sigh. You wouldn't understand then. At All. Ever.
Allow me to simply break it down for you in the former and latter, kiddo. RA: If you do not /resign when your team tells you to (if you have 2 monks for example) they report spike you for leeching. Fair? No. But it is the reality of what goes on in RA and nothing about it will change anytime soon. JQ: If someone in there who does not like you tells everyone "hey <insert name here> is leeching. /Report him/her." they all follow like puppies and you are screwed. Fair? No. But is the reality of what goes on in JQ and nothing about it will change anytime soon. Those are just 2 examples of how /report is abused. You may carry on now with your less-intelligent counter-arguments about my "fake signature" (if you don't like it then you can get over it. It is my "cusotm mark" here on Guru). ~LeNa~ |
jonnieboi05
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
report is abused because it doesn't directly affect the party, the person is banned later, so, abuse of such a potential feature would be a direct punishment upon both parties
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FYI, although it says "abuse of this feature will result in a ban on your account" that is NOT true. I've reported countless people for false reporting under leeching who openly admitted to reporting others out of spiteto plaync.com and numerous GMs told me personally that they do not taker action against false reports. AKA, the message "Abuse of the report feature may lead to your account being banned." is only there to stop people from false reporting (although ironically it still happens anyways). Quote:
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
...You can continue with your less intelligent counter arguments if you like. Want to know an even more effective and respectable "mark" than that? Thinking for yourself, actually reading the argument you are countering before saying anything helps aswell.
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On-topic: Sure, OP. On the outside this would seem like an "okay" feature but once the book is opened then the truth arises and all the problems it would cause would be revealed.
~LeNa~
Joe Fierce
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Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
This is funny. Do you even know what you talking about!?
FYI, although it says "abuse of this feature will result in a ban on your account" that is NOT true. I've reported countless people for false reporting under leeching who openly admitted to reporting others out of spiteto plaync.com and numerous GMs told me personally that they do not taker action against false reports. AKA, the message "Abuse of the report feature may lead to your account being banned." is only there to stop people from false reporting (although ironically it still happens anyways). I lol'ed kind hard there. I do think for myself. Don't throw out random wan-a-be bashing comments and steal my lines just because you've failed at trolling me. On-topic: Sure, OP. On the outside this would seem like an "okay" feature but once the book is opened then the truth arises and all the problems it would cause would be revealed. ~LeNa~ |
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
And that is a negative thing for them, they are losing out on a monk, or damage dealer, or tank, depending on who they vote out, it is not without punishment to both sides of the coin, those voting them out, as well as the person being booted
~Joe~ |
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
report is abused because it doesn't directly affect the party, the person is banned later, so, abuse of such a potential feature would be a direct punishment upon both parties,
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I wasn't talking about the "abuse of report" function being a punishment, once again my friend, learn to read.
How many steps are on that stool you use?
~your attention to detail effing astounds me~
Sjeng
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Originally Posted by dbulger
it just needs to have a cutscene and teleport thing like a lot of other stuff.
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Mason717
Anet should implement a vote kick in the game and see how hard it gets abused, and see if the good outweighs the bad, similar to when they implemented /report.
But then again, it's anet, they're lazy.
But then again, it's anet, they're lazy.
Dre
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Originally Posted by deo_janus
I was part of the PUG and a feature like that really would've saved our whole night. Time consuming events like this should have systems like that boot option to help out the team, the ones actually trying beat the quest.
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It won't solve all the leecher problems, but at least it'll solve the longterm afk problems
Arduin
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Originally Posted by go cubs
Extremely excited to try to kill him, we all went in. We then realized that we needed him to be here to start it. Since we could not all tele to one area, since there is a solo tele after you finish UW, I'm suggesting that specifically for uw, after all quests have been done, there be a team vote function to boot if anyone has been afk longer then XX amount of minutes. We spent 3 hours of our night to try to get there, and once we did we had nothing to do but leave.
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After a bit of herding we were able to get everyone to Dhuum, but I'd say the mechanism of every man teleporting for himself after all quests are completed needs to be removed.
I know it was implemented to fight grieving when people were at the endchest in 'old UW'. But mechanisms have changed, it'll be much more convenient to have all people teleport again, or better yet, implement a cutscene.
Adding a feature to kick other players from the party... I think that will be causing a lot of possible grief, as soon as people figure out how to abuse it.
Strife17
I vote that too in Pve
when 7 of the 8 members vote to kick the 8th member, he/she should be kicked an return to outpost. If he's afk for 10~20min
No one will just kick one party member that is doing his job and continue with 7
when 7 of the 8 members vote to kick the 8th member, he/she should be kicked an return to outpost. If he's afk for 10~20min
No one will just kick one party member that is doing his job and continue with 7
Jk)Phoenix
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Originally Posted by dbulger
it just needs to have a cutscene and teleport thing like a lot of other stuff.
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(a really short cutscene, 10-30 secs)
TheRaven
We need a votekick. I've been caught in the exact same situation before, however not quite as bad as the Dhuum 3 hour waste.
I was pugging Borlis Pass (the one where you need to light the 3 storm beacons at the end). When we started our party leader said "BRB 5 minutes". It's an easy mission so we continued on without him. We completed the bonus...no leader....continued on to Rurik and the King...no leader. We entered the cutscene and afterwards the leader was standing there holding the torch we needed. We wasted about a half hour trying to lure enemies close enough to kill him. Finally we had to quit. All because of some jerk that wanted to desert his team and isn't courteous enough to leave.
Jonnie, I understand the need to protect against griefers, however the first post specifically said to implement this for a player that's been AFK for a certain amount of time. How could that be abused? Also, the entire team (except the afk'er) must vote to kick.
I was pugging Borlis Pass (the one where you need to light the 3 storm beacons at the end). When we started our party leader said "BRB 5 minutes". It's an easy mission so we continued on without him. We completed the bonus...no leader....continued on to Rurik and the King...no leader. We entered the cutscene and afterwards the leader was standing there holding the torch we needed. We wasted about a half hour trying to lure enemies close enough to kill him. Finally we had to quit. All because of some jerk that wanted to desert his team and isn't courteous enough to leave.
Jonnie, I understand the need to protect against griefers, however the first post specifically said to implement this for a player that's been AFK for a certain amount of time. How could that be abused? Also, the entire team (except the afk'er) must vote to kick.
Malice Black
H/H never leave.
It's a useful tool to have, but I don't see Anet ever adding it.
It's a useful tool to have, but I don't see Anet ever adding it.
go cubs
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Originally Posted by dbulger
it just needs to have a cutscene and teleport thing like a lot of other stuff. but ye i could see that being a serious problem in pugs.
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But yeah i completely agree with this. Woulda helped out a bunch...this is pretty much /win
MagmaRed
Kicking someone is definitely a bad idea. Doesn't matter if it requires 1/2 the team to vote for it or 7/8. You would end up seeing groups of friends, guildies, or alliance members screwing people over.
Team needs 1-2 players for UW clear and takes PUGs. At end of clear, after Dhuum is killed, but before the bar has filled, they simply vote to kick the 2 people who helped them get there. Those 2 people worked to get there, but due to a crappy group will get no reward.
It has abuse written all over it. Doesn't matter how often it WOULD happen, we would end up seeing QQ posts all over Riverside within a week of it being added to the game.
Team needs 1-2 players for UW clear and takes PUGs. At end of clear, after Dhuum is killed, but before the bar has filled, they simply vote to kick the 2 people who helped them get there. Those 2 people worked to get there, but due to a crappy group will get no reward.
It has abuse written all over it. Doesn't matter how often it WOULD happen, we would end up seeing QQ posts all over Riverside within a week of it being added to the game.
DragonRogue
Agreed that this is a very bad idea that just begs to be abused. Better to find a way to send all party members to Dhuum at the end of all 10 quests, whether by cutscene or something. Either that or make it so not all members have to be present to start the fight, just a majority of them. Say 5/8. Tho mallyx works this way, it doesnt take upwards of 2-3 hours to reach him.
PS. shouldnt this thread be moved to Sardalec?
PS. shouldnt this thread be moved to Sardalec?
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by go cubs
Today, a PUG
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Ramei Arashi
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
I found your problem, OP. I suggest you find some guild or alliance buddies that you can hopefully rely on next time.
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My guild and alliance members were mostly offline, the few who were on were not interested in UW or low level characters. First time I'm on a team that manages to complete all 10 quests and one jerk keeps us from taking on Dhuum. I hope Anet doesn't screw up FOW in the same way.
As for reporting, that's a laugh. They don't care about leaching. Only time they actually did something was when I reported a player for repeatedly asking me for real money for ectos.
I didn't know how to contact the development team about Dhuum so I sent an email to support, they said they sent in on to the development team and suggested posting on wiki forums to see what other players think.
At least I got 3 ectos, 1 white dye and 100 TOTS (you don't have to activate Dhuum to complete The Waiting Game). And I made 9k merching junk. So not a total loss.
Ramei Arashi
go cubs
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
I found your problem, OP. I suggest you find some guild or alliance buddies that you can hopefully rely on next time.
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jonnieboi05
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Kicking someone is definitely a bad idea. Doesn't matter if it requires 1/2 the team to vote for it or 7/8. You would end up seeing groups of friends, guildies, or alliance members screwing people over.
Team needs 1-2 players for UW clear and takes PUGs. At end of clear, after Dhuum is killed, but before the bar has filled, they simply vote to kick the 2 people who helped them get there. Those 2 people worked to get there, but due to a crappy group will get no reward. It has abuse written all over it. Doesn't matter how often it WOULD happen, we would end up seeing QQ posts all over Riverside within a week of it being added to the game. |
~LeNa~
go cubs
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Kicking someone is definitely a bad idea. Doesn't matter if it requires 1/2 the team to vote for it or 7/8. You would end up seeing groups of friends, guildies, or alliance members screwing people over.
Team needs 1-2 players for UW clear and takes PUGs. At end of clear, after Dhuum is killed, but before the bar has filled, they simply vote to kick the 2 people who helped them get there. Those 2 people worked to get there, but due to a crappy group will get no reward. It has abuse written all over it. Doesn't matter how often it WOULD happen, we would end up seeing QQ posts all over Riverside within a week of it being added to the game. |
That is why there would be a time period...After 15-20 minutes of someone being afk, you are able to kick that person, so it cant be someone just randomly kicking who they dont like
But honestly the cut scene would work better i think
Apok Omen
Or just not allow solo tele until Dhuum is dead...
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by go cubs
That is why there would be a time period...After 15-20 minutes of someone being afk, you are able to kick that person, so it cant be someone just randomly kicking who they dont like
But honestly the cut scene would work better i think |
Ryssul Sylverhart
How about instead of vote-kicking someone off after 15-20 minutes of AFK, the person just is returned to the outpost automatically, kind of like how you automatically disconnect from the game if you AFK for a certain amount of hours? I think THAT would be helpful in any situation. Yeah, it sucks if your mom called you or if your cat piddled on the floor or if you run out to the store, but it's not fair for the team to have to wait, and it's not fair for you to reap benefits that you did not sew.
I would love if there was some kind of automatic boot-back-to-outpost timer in the game: you get people leeching from everything to runs, to PvP battles, to PuGs and clears. And there wouldn't be any kind of...abuse from the players because they aren't the ones kicking or deciding who to kick based on whims, but just the neutral game itself.
Transporting cutscene would just be the easiest thing to add in this situation, though.
I would love if there was some kind of automatic boot-back-to-outpost timer in the game: you get people leeching from everything to runs, to PvP battles, to PuGs and clears. And there wouldn't be any kind of...abuse from the players because they aren't the ones kicking or deciding who to kick based on whims, but just the neutral game itself.
Transporting cutscene would just be the easiest thing to add in this situation, though.
go cubs
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Ok, fine, but you still leave LOTS of room for abuse. The OPs situation was someone AFK. But not everyone who grief's does so on accident. Many people have fun by screwing other people over. So all I have to do is run in circles to keep myself from being kicked for having been afk. I can still prevent a team from fighting Dhuum, and not get kicked since I am not afk.
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Anakita Snakecharm
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| Or.. a function that allows a team to votekick after afk for 15-20min? |
I would be very much in favour of this with the condition mentioned.
I don't think people should just be able to randomly boot anyone from their team at any time-- that does beg for griefing. But I can't think of any legitimate reason that a person would need to be AFK for 15-20 minutes without notifying their teammates, right in the middle of a mission. If it's a true emergency, just exit the game window and go deal with real life-- it takes one mouse click, and people will know you're gone and won't waste time on a futile wait. If it's not an emergency, people need to be at least slightly courteous to others and respect their time, and give their attention to the mission for the duration.
The option doesn't even need to be available before the timer runs out. So you could keep yourself safe from vindictive kicking by... just not going on an extended AFK in the middle of a task! Which should just be normal play, unless the team all agrees on a break. You can't be punished unless your own action leaves you open to it, if it's made conditional on your own behaviour.
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| How about instead of vote-kicking someone off after 15-20 minutes of AFK, the person just is returned to the outpost automatically, kind of like how you automatically disconnect from the game if you AFK for a certain amount of hours? I think THAT would be helpful in any situation. Yeah, it sucks if your mom called you or if your cat piddled on the floor or if you run out to the store, but it's not fair for the team to have to wait, and it's not fair for you to reap benefits that you did not sew. |
There are just too many times when being auto-kicked would be annoying, and I don't see a sufficient outweighing benefit. I'd rather see it require a unanimous vote from all players, so there's actually an action needed to trigger it.
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| So all I have to do is run in circles to keep myself from being kicked for having been afk. I can still prevent a team from fighting Dhuum, and not get kicked since I am not afk. |
TheRaven
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Originally Posted by Ryssul Sylverhart
How about instead of vote-kicking someone off after 15-20 minutes of AFK, the person just is returned to the outpost automatically, kind of like how you automatically disconnect from the game if you AFK for a certain amount of hours? I think THAT would be helpful in any situation. Yeah, it sucks if your mom called you or if your cat piddled on the floor or if you run out to the store, but it's not fair for the team to have to wait, and it's not fair for you to reap benefits that you did not sew.
I would love if there was some kind of automatic boot-back-to-outpost timer in the game: you get people leeching from everything to runs, to PvP battles, to PuGs and clears. And there wouldn't be any kind of...abuse from the players because they aren't the ones kicking or deciding who to kick based on whims, but just the neutral game itself. Transporting cutscene would just be the easiest thing to add in this situation, though. |
Also, I commonly do FOW clears on the weekend by myself. I load up my heroes and head in. Since I'm alone, I'm not at the computer the whole time. These clears will sometimes take me all day to complete. I'll head in, clear to the tower of courage....go vacuum the house....head to the battlefield and complete Army of Darkness....fold laundry.....clear the forge....go to the grocery store......clear spider cave and burning forest.....cook dinner....then finish up in the evening.
Sorry, but I just don't see a way to abuse a votekick. Magma, Jonnie have you actually read the entire thread????? The OP is asking for a votekick option after a player has been afk. I don't understand how this can be abused? If you do, then explain. But please don't re-hash the same flawed argument that it would be used to kick non-friends or to grief a legitimate player. If that player isn't afk then it can't.
deo_janus
What about a timer, say 45 minutes-1 hour, that only applies for a human player group and after being AFK for such a time, the team can votekick on it?
frostkisses
I dont know about you but theres no way after spending 3 HOURS in UW that I would want to wait another 45 to kick someone thats obviously an leeching fool. And what happens if he comes back on just to be an ass 
and runs around a moment? The timer restarts... IMO this is just not reality. And it would also come with consequences due to the less mature 
population of GW. I'm all for the cutscene. Something simple...maybe just a zoomed in shot of dhuum...make him laugh and call you forth. 30 seconds tops..Only thing is the cut scene would have to bring you inside the hall (doors close when party enters and Dhuum becomes hostile) and Frozenwind would have to give you the quest inside. Sooo Frozenwind is an "untouchable"(no harm would be caused to him) npc. Seems like a lot of crap to shove into one area, but really the only thing that would work.
Edit: Yes I know 45 min would be nothing if they went afk at the beginning, but you gotta think what if it was just before Dhuum
and runs around a moment? The timer restarts... IMO this is just not reality. And it would also come with consequences due to the less mature population of GW. I'm all for the cutscene. Something simple...maybe just a zoomed in shot of dhuum...make him laugh and call you forth. 30 seconds tops..Only thing is the cut scene would have to bring you inside the hall (doors close when party enters and Dhuum becomes hostile) and Frozenwind would have to give you the quest inside. Sooo Frozenwind is an "untouchable"(no harm would be caused to him) npc. Seems like a lot of crap to shove into one area, but really the only thing that would work.Edit: Yes I know 45 min would be nothing if they went afk at the beginning, but you gotta think what if it was just before Dhuum
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by TheRaven
This idea has been debated before, but it is worse than a votekick option. Many many many teams take breaks, especially on long missions. It's not uncommon to have alliance teams doing Urgoz or UW runs that take several hours. If the mission is running longer than expected we'll agree to a 15 min break. I don't want to come back and find myself in TOA after the break.
Also, I commonly do FOW clears on the weekend by myself. I load up my heroes and head in. Since I'm alone, I'm not at the computer the whole time. These clears will sometimes take me all day to complete. I'll head in, clear to the tower of courage....go vacuum the house....head to the battlefield and complete Army of Darkness....fold laundry.....clear the forge....go to the grocery store......clear spider cave and burning forest.....cook dinner....then finish up in the evening. Sorry, but I just don't see a way to abuse a votekick. Magma, Jonnie have you actually read the entire thread????? The OP is asking for a votekick option after a player has been afk. I don't understand how this can be abused? If you do, then explain. But please don't re-hash the same flawed argument that it would be used to kick non-friends or to grief a legitimate player. If that player isn't afk then it can't. |
Since the 'only if someone is afk' option limits this to rare situations where you are with a PUG and people go afk, this means it won't be needed very often. If you actually find yourself on PUGs with people going afk frequently, you need to learn how to find PUGs.
go cubs
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Of course I read the entire thing. And I stated how I think it could be abused. Afk can be done in 2 ways. First is someone actually leaves their computer and the person is not interacting with the game. Second is the person is just sitting there doing nothing for the quest/mission, but still chatting with friends or griefing the team. If it required someone to be afk to work, people would still abuse it. I could go afk for 14 minutes with a 15 minute timer, and move one step.
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The whole point is for people that are legitimately afk and i guess its true that it would be rarely used, thats why itd probably be better in the Dhuum situation just to have a cutscene so everyone gets in there somehow.
chiuna
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Originally Posted by Apok Omen
Or just not allow solo tele until Dhuum is dead...
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Also, group tele wouldn't teleport the afker close enough to start the quest anyway, so it would not help this particular issue.
knobby
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Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
This is exactly what I was talking about from the very beginning...
~LeNa~ |
Tele would be the only answer!