Dwayna Vs. Grenth? Uneven.

I actually think you're suggested idea of yellow snow is really good. With that change I don't think avalanche will need to be touched.

I didn't blindly say dwayna always wins. I said at that current time, in all observable quarterfinal and semifinal games, dwayna won every game. Of course grenth still has the capacity to win...I, as well as you, am fully capable of beating scrubs as grenth.

8v8 on a 4v4 map=fail
thats why it sux its not problem with skills, this is what you get when u put 16ppl in a 4v4 map with skillsets designed for 4v4

and sins&necros are really good this yr cuz of new skill change

and about macros...maybe some ppl use it but u dont need it to be pro, i use mouse cilck to pick them up

You forgot to say that you are in Grenth team because you failed at using a "glitch" to get Dwayna for finals.
If anyone doing Snowball AT doesn't know : If you finish 2nd at Swiss, then you get Dwayna for 1/4, 1/2 and final.
You can check on last ATs, LR, among others, i'm not saying you're the only team doing this, always get 5/1/0, they resign/leave last match not to be 1rst.

So yes, Dwayna and Grenth are not even, and it's even more uneven when you use a glitch to be Dwayna.

It by far has a larger advantage in 8v8 than 4v4.

lol, busted.

It doesn't matter if you're Grenth or Dwayna, because the final victor of the At will be the guild who has most people botting, combined with best strategy/team setup.

Also, I LOVE how someone from the [LR] came on here talking about balanced, getting called out on botting, which is 100% true, and then getting backed out by a Clan Dethryche guildie, which is the guild with most known botters. (Yuris Sayuri and such)

I don't even mind them botting on most occasions (such as Rollerbeetle), but please don't come talking here acting as if you actually KNOW how snowball arena works.

Dwayna gets a NEARBY cripple skill times 8, whereas Grenth gets a skill that gives your own intire party disease, and more often than not covers up the cripple from Dwayna. In a way, Yellow Snow fcuks yourself, because your cripple keeps getting covered by disease.

The difference between playing Dwayna and Grenth is simple:

If you're Dwayna, you dominate the match, and your opponent will only win if you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up. (Or again, if they have better/more bots)

If you're Grenth, you're the submissive team, you can only win if your opponent makes too many mistakes.


But this will probably GW's last winter's day (Next year = GW2?), so it hardly matters...

You don't need a bot to win at Snowball Arena. I've spent two years arguing in Vent that winning has little to do with pickup speed or individual play skill, and almost everything to do with generating advantageous tactical situations. If you try to play ping wars against three skilled opponents, you're going to lose most of the time. You simply need to force your opponent into those situations more often than you get forced into them, and make the opponent waste more time and players capping each present than you do. It's about harassing their runs and keeping yours nice and clean.

You don't need a bot to dodge, either. You DO need consistent latency, which my connection fails hard at. You're better off pinging 250 constantly than seesawing between 150 and 350 like I frequently do. You also need some situational awareness; radar and TAB are your friends.

Don't get me started on Rollerbeetle. If you don't press every skill at precisely the right times, you're going to fail. Spend enough time at it and take the right attitude into the arena, and you can find the little advantages here and there that make you successful.

You can win with Grenth, but Avalanche will decide an even or close to even match. Lots of tactics that work as Dwayna don't work as Grenth, so you have to play differently and you must use the few snares you have very efficiently. Even then you're susceptible to plain old bad luck; bad spawns WILL beat you even if you outplay your opponent.

You're free to remain deluded and continue to fail if it makes you happy, but it doesn't sound like you're doing everything you could be to succeed.

Hehe, what an honor. Makes me proud that ppl still think I'm botting

Question: How the hell is anyone a "known botter"? Do you have a camera set up in their house or something?

You watch for anomalies in their behavious. For example, Yuris is generally known as a botter, due to his famous Rollerbeetle runs.
This is obviously only speculation.

So how fo you know for sure? You observe him.

Just yesterday, LR was facing Yuris guild (Dehy), and most of his guild has the dodge-bot. It is, in fact, quite simple, and I assume the code goes as follow:

Server sends packet to client that someone has thrown a snowball at you which is going to KD you. Then the bot replies to that packet with a drop ping, and a left and right strafe, and then pick it up again.

A real player could not pull this off with high consitency. Yuris, and his guildies, do it on pretty much every KD'ing snowball.
So I assumed, what if they're just REALLY good (yeah right).

Then I observed him being surrounded by LR people (Yuris), and someone threw a snowball from far away. He then dropped the relic, and strafed left and right.

In other words, his bot kicked in, because a real player would NEVER have dropped, and strafed like that when being surrounded by 4+ enemy people.

So either he's SUCH a good player he ALWAYS senses a KD'ing snowball comming in, even if there's 100% chaos going on around him, and he will STILL try and dodge it, even tough he KNOWS the 4 ppl around him will pick up the present if he drops it, OR he's using a bot.

Which one is the obvious anwser?

But I'm really not here to accuse, or judge anyone. I just don't think botters should be posting in this thread acting as if they actually know how snowball arena actually works.

Yeah, team tactics, and build setup can definatly turn the match around, but ANYONE who has a slight clue how snowball arena works would realize that whichever team can pick the relic up faster wins... You can kill them as much as you want, you can snare them as much as you want, but at the end of the day, if you are never able to pick up the relic, it'll just keep moving slowly to their avatar, slow but steady...

Also,

Yellow Snow: Transfer all your conditions to nearby foes. 3/4 cast, 5 recharge.

When did we play LR with Yuri on the team? Hasn't happened this week.

Get your facts straight before you start leveling baseless accusations. Played against Yuri and his 4v4 friends when they were guesting in Get Pwnd last night. He and his compatriots drop early; you can skill cancel and scoop when they drop if you're quick. That doesn't fit the bot hypothesis.

They won those matches against us because people weren't quick enough on the cancel steal and because our linebacking was awful. They stole at least three presents from next to our avatar with Grenth, and that invariably means that players aren't shutting down Icicles or harassing opponents as they cross the map.

first thing: yuri is in dth, but doesnt play for it
2nd: last night yuri has played in get pwnd [1337]
and how can u see all snowballs?
max solution, max camerazoom, and look at their animation and switch ur targets!
if some enemy has pointed at u with his hand, this one is casting something.
what would u say if u know, we all play at without ts/vent?
are we now cheaters/haxxorz?

that was for killed u man.

dude seriusly, a dodge is different for every situation - its all about where the enemy is standing compared to ure own position, a bot wouldnt ever be able to make a perfect dodge vs all directions, or at least if there is, that guy who made it spend HELL OF A LONG TIME, on making it, doing all the algorytms etc, and here im talking about 70 hours of programming or something like that. what yuri have done is called: rutine and training, "what ure saying" is: because a guy is actually better than you, he gotta be botting? so every top clan in CS or WoW or whatever game ure talking about, gotta have hax or bots in their game... because they are better than the others, its just bullshit... everyone train, and me and yuri have been training together in snowball arena for 3 years, allmost fulltime whenever event is up. DODGEBOT ISNT REAL, or at least not working. if you had spendas long time as us on snowball i bet u would be allmost as good as me and the other guys.

another question: what about top GvG's. u would say everyone their is botting aswell? i dont think so dude.

Euhm, it was either LR, or Strange Players. Either way, what guild THEY were don't matter.

You seem to have miss my point regardless. I'm not talking about the stuff they couldn't do running a bot, I'm talking about the stuff they ARE doing.

Dropping relic to do a half a second strafe and immediatly picking it up again is one of those. Then doing the exact same thing when surrounded by enemy people is the proof. There is something doing said input for you, cuz why would you ever want to drop the relic when surrounded by enemy people, ESPECIALLY when those people are also renowned for botting (sp and LR).

And I'm not making wild accusation. I gave you guys benefit of the doubt, but Yuris, and others, KEEP doing the same thing, then it's getting obvious really fast a bot is playing for you.


To the above 2 posts:

So Yuris has THAUGHT himself that whenever a snowball that is going to KD him, he drops, strafes and picks up again. EVEN IF HE IS SURROUNDED BY ENEMIES WHO WILL JUST PICK IT UP?

Ok... Again, that is BOTLIKE behaviour. That's the EXACT definition of AI playing from you. It was programmed to do something, but has no real intelligence. A GOOD player would understand that there is NO excuse, ever, to drop a relic next to an enemy player.

Also, it ISN'T hard to code. Not knowing too much about it, I know the basics of GW packets and what you can do with them. For example, finding out if a snowball is going to KD you is REALLY easy to do. So is the dodge sequence.

All you need to have is some patience, some logic, knowing some C++, C# (or insert other language) and know the basics of packet sniffing.

Yuris is one of those guys who has all of those, or atleast whoever made his bots.

EDIT: But I'll just leave it at that. I don't expect you guys to be admitting to botting at the risk of a perm ban. Tough once again: don't try and "fix" Snowball Arena's, or discuss it's balance.

P.S.: Yellow Snow: Transfer all your conditions to Nearby Foes. 3/4 CT, 5R

Okay dude u are sad.

First of all how u can come here and say that Lr and dth are guilds who are using macros its just about good pings and skill.

Second. I think / know that yuri isnt using a macro or whatever u call it if u have observerved him like u said he is a skilled player and no macro can do that..

And thing u whine about dodge dropping snowballs its pretty easy you just have to follow the game and drop relic right time and move away from and pick it back.

and whoru? some guy who got pwnt from us or dth? and in the end its players skill what matters i know there are guys botting and macroing in snowball and they have admitted that but i can say honestly no one in our team uses macro we played last wintersday with this same team so i think we have some experience.

Here the explaination for the "lack of skill" guy called killed_u_man =)

Ofc i dropped the present even if im surrounded by some ppl, cuz DnD(drop n dodge) happens BEFORE ur KD-snowball arrives. That means my 0,5-1,0sec DnD is mostly already done when my enemies try to repick (as they see me getting hit by a KD-snowball). So I'm the one who tries first to repick, in additional I'm pretty fast in it - results in being successful. You rly need to understand Snowball Arena to prove I'm doing unlogical stuff or not.

Edit: Wow, not only unskilled even dumb. One simple question: What's better?

1. To lose ur present and get daze.
2. To lose ur present and dont get daze.

Think about it, pretty difficult question imo.

If you drop a snowball, they have just as much chance of picking it up as you do. For starters, against said guilds, some of those are already running a bot aswell. Secondly, even against regular players you have a slight chance of losing it, cuz every non-botters can tab/click really fast. They already know you're going to get kd'd, cuz a snowball was incomming in the firstplace (Why your dodgebot activated in the first place), so they were spamming their pick up shiz already.

In general, Drop n Dodge is ONLY worth it when not surrounded by enemy people.

what for bullshit are u talking about?
this trick: drop and dodge is not rly that hard to use a bot, combinate ur keyboard and mouse, u can do this trick for <1s. If u are dodging, it doesnt matter how many ppl are shooting on u, u cant be hit if u wont stop to dodge.
The more skillfull u can do this, the less time u need for this trick, 1/2 is standard.

i think, u didnt understand what the dnd-trick does. In firstline, it helps u not to get dazed (most important), other teammate can repick. Repick by urself is just an option, not a must-do.

and what u guys talking about: dwayna always win!!!einseinself!!!!
this is bullshit, for example last night, get pwnd got grenth in final and it still has won the at. Other hand, get pwnd always got grenth in swiss round (ok, 1time dwayna). If u are rly skillfull und much stronger than another team, it doesnt matter grenth or dwayna. Just do enough pressure and good backup, u will win the game.

There being a skill balance on the arena this year would make you clearly wrong.

Some people I've played with before bragged about it in Vent. So I always tell them to just not use it, since it's not really fair.

herp derp.

No, but people who've played the arena for most of the time its been available should certainly know something about how to play or fix the arena.

LOLNO.

Not if you have at least one or two people running next to you that are reliable in knowing when you're going to do it and can pick up the gift to keep going. It's moreso that the technique fails when you or your group is snared.

gay term btw, just sayin
and comparing dwayna to grenth is like comparing r/a shit way in ha to balanced, balanced will always win if you have people playing it that are at least twice as good as the shitters, r/a's do it cuz its easy no skill needed fame but they always get smashed by good balanced teams
its kinda the same with grenth and dwayna, hell of a lot easier to win with dwayna than grenth

Simple decision matrix:

Drop and dodge - maybe/probably you lose it.
Don't drop and dodge - get KD'd, get dazed if HR, definitely you lose it.

This is not hard. If you can avoid a Hidden Rock or Mega, you should. Some chance of retaining is better than none, and it's easier to take it back and Fort up when you're not Dazed.

You might argue that the player should have Forted in the first place, but if it was on recharge then DnD is the best alternative.

Yuri and his friends aren't doing anything novel. [DoM] used the same playbook last year. No one accused them of botting.

Mm, but i think it doesnt matter what i say to him cos he is really lost and retarded..

This thread has gone far from Topic, being now OFF-topic. Let us finally end this discussion, which is going nowhere by continuing this. Admin can either remove all the posts or then people can start a new thread about this matter. These posts are surely not needed here.

So "Borat The Ritspiker from the guild [WoTU]" comes here as "Killed_U_Man" by starting these baseless accusations as Martin posted in his message before. Make sure you get the facts indeed BEFORE posting the messages out of nowhere.

To end this discussion once and for all, this is all I have to say after all of what I've read: You can always receive the pity for free, but jealousy's gotta be earned.

Press F11 -button in game ladies and gentlemen (choose whatever buttons you prefer):

Target: Nearest Item = F -button
Action: Drop Item = SHIFT -button
Action: Attack/Interact (Do It) = Space -button

I've trained DnD for ages in snowball. To be honest, server lag issues will surely cause a failure on that one for the most part. DnD is surely useful even if there are players around you.

Let's have a simple example here:
1. Team Number 1 has American players on European servers.
2. Team Number 2 has European players on European servers.

Conclusions: Hmmh. Win-Win situation? Absolutely not. On these games ping matters ALOT. Even after a single Knock Down Americans might even not see these presents on the ground while they are already picked up by European players => ping issue. DnD surely works on these games for Europeans.

A good example on that one is between Get Pwnd [1337] (Europeans) vs. Clan dethryche [dth] (Americans) on European server. This game was played yesterday 11.29.2009 on Quarter-Finals.

Another example:
1. Team number 1 has European players on European servers.
2. Team number 2 has European players on European servers.

Conclusions: Both teams DO have the chance on cancel casting and pick up their dropped presents BEFOREHAND. You've just gotta react quick, on my case (fast pickup with F + Space). The only thing that helps on that one is honestly the training we've gotten from last year ATs and 4v4 games (past 3 years).

Ping shouldn't be an issue on these games or whenever Americans are facing another American Team on their own server. That's a fact you can't deny.