Raise the Gold Cap!!!

Then that is your choice. If you choose to just do nothing but save money so you can stare at it and say "Yay I'm rich" then so be it. The rest of us will spend our money and enjoy what we earn, instead of letting it sit there collecting dust.



Umm yes they did. Gold is the form of currency for this game. You actually NEED gold to buy things, unlike ecto or armbraces. Players made ecto and armbraces a form of currency, not Anet. If you visit a Merchant and choose to shop, what do they require for you to buy something? GOLD. So saying we are not forced to use gold and hang onto it, is completely wrong.

If it isn't broke don't fix it.

Lot of denial in this game and the ecto fans are becoming like oil companies in the real world.
Hey I got a way to run a car on grass result mass panic as the oil companies start their spin on the media to stop it in its tracks.

So to in this game we have the ectos and the cappers two sides with differing viewpoints.
Who can deny that if you were setting up a game from scratch you would set up coins of sufficient values top allow for any trade eventuality.

Here we have the multi stage rejection of any plans to alter what we have now.

Stage one "There isn't a problem"
So you get posts pointing out how you think there is a problem.

Stage two "anything you do will cause a massive price drop and players will suffer"
So you alter your ideas to keep the value of players current stockpiles.

stage three "anet designed rare materials to be used in trade"
Well maybe they did I wasn't at any of the policy meetings when they decided that.
I am pretty sure they never imagined anyone playing the game for 5 years or at least the pve part of it and so never thought anyone would ever need more than the present gold cap.

What we do have is a lot of unhappy people and neither side wants to see the other win.

Again HELLO Torment weapons, Obsidian Armor and Chaos gloves, High-end, prestige items that can be bought using these. That's why they are valuable in the first place.. If someone said: OMG that armor that uses silk looks SOO cool and Prestige, and everyone would want it, silk would go skyhigh and it would be a currency as well.
Spyder, can you please stop saying buying ecto is stupid, because that only proves that you never put any thought into this..
And btw, it's not like the richies don't spend their money.. I've been hanging around my 600e for a while now, going under and above it every now and then, and I buy shitloads of stuff. I buy a stack of Lockpicks every week to go chestrunning.
And, buy a title etc, most of us already are GWAMM, I've been GWAMM for almost 2y.. I have 50 HoM points etc, there just isn't much more for us to do. I just earn a little more money that i spend every now and then, and it's stockpiling, that's how savings work..
Arachnid, please tell me that IRL you spend every cent the moment you get it, because saving is holding back economy, that would make sense at least..
And, comparing this to IRL does make sense, cause this economy, and every MMORPG economy for that matter works in a very similar way (supply-demand curves etc)
So, raising gold cap to infinity and raping ecto's still doesn't make sense, and if you thickheaded idiots would at least do the effort to read through all the arguments stated here by me and many others, you would come to the conclusion that they make sense. But you don't, and it kind of figures...

First off, insulting everyone and calling us all "thinkheaded idiots" isn't a good way to get your point across. Let's stick to the debate, and leave the name calling out of it. There is no reason for that.

I never said buying ecto was stupid, and I never said using it for currency was stupid either. Learn to read. I said if the gold cap is raised and we lose money cause we invested our money into a crafting material, we have no one to blame but ourselves. I never said we shouldn't do it and I never said those who do invest their money in ecto are stupid.

Ecto is used for alot more than just a community based "currency". Yes you can buy items with ecto and armbraces. I know this already. That's like saying because I can exchange truffles for a weapon at a collector, they should become the new currency. If that was the case, every single crafting material would be a currency that we use to pay for things. Which, it isn't. The only things the community sees as viable options for currency is gold, platinum, ecto, and armbraces.

Sure, save your money. There is nothing wrong with that. Not all of us are fortunate to have billions of gold lying around that is just pocket change to us. Some of us still have things to spend our money on. I'm not saying to go waste all of your money on whatever you can think of. If you have tons of money stockpiled up, good for you. And comparing this to real life? Seriously? It's a VIDEO GAME. AND in real life, there is no limit to how much money you can have. In Guild Wars, there is a limit. You can't compare a video game and real life and say "Oh you waste all your money in a video game, so you must do that in real life". that is the most stupidest statement I have ever heard. It's a VIDEO GAME.

And if they raise the gold cap, then let them. If it affects the price of ectos and armbraces, so be it. I have ecto, I have armbraces, but oh well. If I lose money cause I thought I could use some random material as a form of currency, then that is my fault. Like I said a million times over, Anet isn't responsible for us making ecto and armbraces currency. The only TRUE currency is gold and platinum. It is the community who makes ecto and armbraces worth something, not Anet. For all we know, Wood Planks could become the next currency. Let's all start investing our money into Bolts of Cloth. Make it the new currency. The economy of this game is player driven, and if Anet decides that we need more space to store gold, then so be it. Then we won't have to rely on crafting materials and collector items to be currency.

The only reason you are so against it, is because you have a ton of ecto and armbraces and you don't want them to become useless if the gold cap is raised. The gold cap needs to be raised so we aren't forced to use random items as currency. With the cap raised, we can actually have our gold and platinum instead of relying on some random ingame item to pose as money.

I'm not gonna try to explain this again...
/unsigned, noone is listening to anything I or anyone else is saying about how economy works and how this makes perfect sense, so leave it...

It is simple.

We shouldn't have to rely on random items to be currency. The currency is gold and platinum. But since we have a cap on that, we had to rely on something else to hold our money. We shouldn't have to. We should be able to use gold and platinum to buy whatever we want without having to rely on some random ingame item as money cause we are limited on how much we can carry.

Instead of thinking of your greed and going "Oh don't raise it, cause now I will be poor", think about the logic. There should be no reason for us to use ecto and armbraces as currency. We have gold, we have platinum. Substituting some random item for money is not what we should be doing. We should be able to carry as much gold and platinum as we can, without having to resort to random items as currency.

This, makes perfect sense. If you want a real life comparison, go try it out for yourself. Try to go buy your groceries with a bolt of cloth. Tell me how that goes. I'm betting it won't go over so well. In real life, you have to only use money. I'm sure you can't go to your friend and go "Hey I'll buy your Xbox off you for 250 pieces of cloth". You are likely to be laughed at.

Same goes for game as well. We shouldn't have a gold cap. We should be able to buy whatever we want with gold and store as much gold as we have without having to resort to random items for currency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

I don't get your point, seeing as this is not a government, nor is it treated as one. It is a video game. Fiat Money holds no grounds in this debate.

If you want to go with that, then sure. But it is still the same argument. Our "government" (Anet) declared that Platinum and Gold is legal tender in the video game. SOCIETY, claims ecto and armbraces are. Our "government" has put a cap on the amount of LEGAL tender we can have.

So, lift the cap so we can start using our LEGAL tender instead of resorting to what society claims is real money. Either way, it is still the same point. We shouldn't have to resort to random items as money. Lifting the cap will fix that issue.

You are very good at selective reading.

Well then how about you actually explain your point instead of throwing up some random link, expecting all of us instantly to know exactly what you are talking about?

Instead of commenting on my reading skills, how about actually staying on topic and commenting on the topic? Or do you feel making a personal remark about my reading is important to this thread?

My opinion still stands. We shouldn't have to resort to using random items in game as currency. The cap on gold should be raised or removed so we can use it for what it was meant to be used for, and not have to be resort to using random items.

So, /signed to the idea of raising/removing the gold cap.

So, Ecto and armbrace are illegal? Djee, a lot accounts need to be banned then..

Whoever said it was illegal? We trade ecto/armbraces between each other. We don't use them as currency to our government do we? Our government only accept the legal tender, which in this case would be platinum and gold.

But we as a society accept trade options with ecto and armbraces. But we also use the legal tender that was given to us by our government.

Our government doesn't say we can't trade between each other, so therefore, it isn't illegal. So instead of the sarcastic remark, think about it next time.

And, howmany times do I need to say that Anet DID intend this to happen? They aren't a bunch of retards you know.. There are actually people that studied economics over there that come up with ideas like this.. This isn't coincidence..

And fyi, GW is semi-based on medieval society. And there, you COULD go into a store and buy something with a piece of cloth, so again, INTENDED!!

I would trade my xbox for 250 globs of radioactive ectoplasm IRL

Then please, show me exactly where Anet states that Ecto and Armbraces were "intended" to be a form of currency. Show me where Anet says that we were supposed to use them for currency. Show me where Anet says that because there is a cap on gold, that they "intended" for us to start using Ecto and Armbraces as currency. Show proof of Anet making the decision to start using these items as currency, and not the player base making this decision.

Once you can show proof of them actually saying that, then I'll believe you. Seeing as Armbraces weren't introduced into the game till Nightfall, I find it hard to believe that all this time Anet "intended" for us to use them as currency.

They intended it to be this way or it wouldn't be that way. What more proof do you want. The economy is pretty stable in Guild Wars or they would have fixed it.

Actually, Anet didn't expect you to need more than one million gold. You can buy whatever you want in the game with one million gold. That is not counting the player based market.

It is the players that made stuff require us to need more than one million gold. The community has made stuff so expensive, that we need more than the cap can give us, so we had to resort to other things to use as currency.

It wasn't Anet who made stuff expensive that we had to resort to random items for currency. You can buy anything in game with one million gold that Anet provides. That is counting weapons, armor, skills, etc.

It is only when you trade with the community and use the community set prices, that you need more than one million gold. We are the ones that are forcing ourselves to use random items as currency, not Anet. Anet is not making stuff so expensive that we need more than the cap can give us. The community is making it that way.

I doubt this will ever change in the game because anet do not seem to be interested in moving the economy away from ecos and many players want enormous game resources.

The object of the game at the moment seems to be fill the HOM on all accounts owned and to gain gwamm on every character.
Least that seems to be a common ideal when you listen to many players.

I do not care what monetarist theories amateur economists spout on this thread.
Or how inflation works in the real world or what dire consequences are being forecast if we make an alteration to the currency.
Or even flat statements that anet will never do xxx its all pointless.

Whatever changes are made the game economy will eventually stabilise it always does, beside we have been told for years that the game economy is broken.
If the current economy is broken why not try to fix it.

There will always be the suspicion possibly untrue that the real reason is players want to use rare materials to power trade their way to vast game wealth then use that to effectively buy the game.

Good luck to them.

Actually Anet did intend for you to have more than 1,000k or else they would not allow your players to carry 100k each... Besides, the only reason the in game items have gone up is because the amount of time people have put into this game causing the items to go up in value. If this were not the case then everyone would loss interest in this game and no longer have any motivation to play it. Also you are right you can buy any maxed weapon in game for any price you want, thank god for collector items.

Then why should ArenaNet fix a problem we caused ourselves?

Ahum... Obsidian Armor, for the 3rd time now.. (You really are a master in selective reading, as stated before) Please note that when Obby armor was first introduced, Ecto's were like 10-20k/ea (Don't know howmuch exactly) and shards like 6k/ea. Now you do the math... Never meant to have more than 1mill? Djee, then why would they make an armorset that's 2-3mill at the time?
I'm gonna drop the intended bomb again, not that's he's going to notice it, or take any effort to think besides his little box, but I can keep trying.. Besides, he continues to make a fool out of himself, so it's kind of funny in a frustrating way...

The term fiat money is completely irrelevant in this discussion. Using it to say ectos aren't worth anything is stupid. You could use the same argument for gold or any item that is most definitely a non-fiat currency.

All of you are still discussing possible blow to the value of ectos and wether people should buy them in the first place.
That is not what this discussion is primarily about. The real question is wether raising the gold cap, no matter the consequences to current players' wealth, is something positive. It isn't, because it will cause a lot of inflation.

Yes, but that's what we're trying to explain here, but all the others are saying is that trading in ecto and armbraces is our own fault and a stupid idea. Which, of course it isn't, but they refuse to see the point..

Please, continue to keep insulting me.

How many times do you need to realize that it isn't Anet that sets those prices, but the community? You sit here and say "Ecto were 10-20k each and that Anet made those armorsets 2-3 million", but what you are forgetting, is that Anet didn't set those prices. We did as a community.

Anet has no control of the price set on ecto. The community is what makes them expensive, not Anet. Anet didn't make the game and go "Ecto is going to be 10-20k each". They made it the same price as every other rare material. The community bought so much of it and started selling it for expensive amounts. We are the ones who set the price, not Anet. They have no control over the market.

So please, think again before you make some ridiculous post with no argument.

/signed again

For the Record, Anet only sets a Materials Base price to sell to either a Merchant or Trader. The Community has deemed it as more that just a material due to the cap. But since Ectos are easy to farm with a Variety of builds these days they aren't rare like they once were, so the only reason they maintain the price they do is still because of the cap.

Also when I first started playing in 06 Ectos were about 3-5k tops, and I kept that in mind cause I'm a Ghostbusters fan and got all giddy seeing Ecto. :P
But the price is regulated by the Community not Anet, also the addition of the Armbrace as currency stems from people filling their whole Storage with ecto and needing yet another tier for their amassed wealth.

Please, think before you say I'm not thinking.

When Anet INTRODUCED the Obsidian Armor set, the ecto's were this high (let's say 10k/ea) at that time, when Anet decided to put them in the game. Of course, Anet was fully aware of those prices, and they had to decide how many Ecto + shards they had to ask for that armor set. And they said 105/120 (depending on class) so they KNEW they were going to be 1 mill + at that time, and that they would stay pretty expensive, 1 mill + at the least.
And the reason that I keep doing so is because you're too stubborn to listen to anything I or a lot of other people have to say, so I thought that was how I could get into you, but since both reason and condescend failed on you, dunno what will succeed...

I see your point, and yes Anet released armor when Ecto and Shards were at a high price.

Is that their fault? Are they the ones to blame now cause they released something? Is it them who set the price for ecto?

What you still fail to realize, is that whether they released Obsidian armor at that time or not, it STILL isn't their fault that Ecto is that price. They released an armor set just like ANY other armor set. They don't release an armor set and go "well the community has overpriced ecto extremely, so we shouldn't make this so expensive".

Anet isn't at fault for the price of Ecto, whether they released Obsidian armor at the time or not. They are going to release content no matter what is going on with the community. Should they be forced to hold back content cause we the community are doing something else with something that involves the content?

I think what you are not realizing, is it isn't Anet's fault that Ecto is priced so high. Whether they released new armor or not, they aren't to blame. We the community are controlling the market and making prices. If Anet releases content that involves prices that we set, why should we blame them for it? It's not their fault that we made stuff the price it is. You gotta remember that Anet bases their prices off the prices they set, not what the community set.

I am stepping out of this.. Go on as you please...

There should never have been a gold cap in inventory, storage or trade right from the start. Make them all have no limit.

/signed

re Obsidian Armour
I guess when they created it they didn't think players would buy it they thought players will farm almost all the materials themselves.

When players take the shortcut of buying from npcs and do it in their thousands then the price will rise.
This was a mistake on anet's part because x many thousand players will often come up with ways of doing things anet didn't consider.

I also don't think they considered a very healthy stockmarket would evolve because that is what the high end of the game is, the buying and selling of materials and items to make cash, then investing that cash in more materials.

Please do it better in gw2

Anet probably did actually figure out that ectos would be farmed and that they may very well have intended them to be the gold sink they now are. It does not matter anyway, wether it was intended or not, they are a great gold sink as they are. So, please, instead of discussing wether ectos are worth anything if they're not used as a currency, or discussing wether they were meant to be, get on-topic.
The sole question that needs to be answered here, is wether ectos are a good currency. I think they are, I have not heard any solid arguments against this. If you have any, give them. If you do not, why is this thread still running?

Ectos are not a good form of currency because thier value can change in a matter of seconds. If I say ectos are worth 6k someone will say 7k, and someone else will say 6.5k. By the time you get a good quote on ecto rates the rare mat trader could change the price.

How are ectos a "great gold sink"? It's as good as any material for that matter. No better, No worse.

Raising the gold cap would be a bad idea. I'd just hoard money, but as things stand I'm forced to spend it.

You are wrong. The sole question has nothing to do about ecto. It is off-topic.

The thread is about whether the gold cap should be increased or removed. The OP is suggesting raising the cap to 5,000,000. Ecto has nothing to do with it. The sole question is about the gold cap, not about ecto and if they qualify for currency.

Here is the original post since you seem to have forgotten or never read it.

An easy way to solve the currency problem would be to introduce token items that are stackable can be bought and sold to merchants at the same price.

Example:

Copper Xunlai Bullion - 10k
Silver Xunlai Bullion - 50k
Gold Xunlai Bullion - 100k

Ectos as a gold sink !!!!! are you serious ? ectos are a way of creating wealth.
If you farm and sell them you gain gold
If you trade in them buying low selling high you gain gold.
Buying items from NPCs removes gold so yes if you buy them from npcs then use them to get Obsidion armour or chaos gloves then and only then they are a gold sink


Anything in the game that has a high enough value that can stack and isn't subject to enormous variation in price can successfully be used as currency.
Some players will have to buy ectos and from players or traders while many can and do farm them.

You can buy an ecto from a rare material trader for 9k and sell them back for 7 or you can buy and sell to players for 8k that's the price at time of posting.
Apart from Obsidian armour and chaos gloves the traders have nothing to sell that would need you to go outside of the ordinary currency, so these materials are mostly used trading between players.
My problem with this is that a player has to manually convert some of his game currency into ectos and then sit on them till some future trade comes about or rush to buy them when a likely trade comes along.

Suppose a situation where your in a town and suddenly there is an item for sale, rare unded minipet for instance.
The seller wants 60 ectos which is a great price.

Sadly you have 50 ectos in your storage but could buy more if there was time but can you reasonably buy those other ectos from player or trader before some player with 60 ectos strikes or everyone selling ectos sees the opportunity and puts the price up esp if the rare material trader sells out.
Suppose you buy the ectos for 9 or 10 k but the item has gone, your now stuck with most of your game cash in ectos and the price has now returned to 8k.

Ok its a ficticious situation but not that impossible to imagine those with vast wealth will always be able to outgun any average player because they can sit around with 10 20 30 or more stacks of ectos and buy anything as it comes up for trade.

A player with 1 million platinum in storage cannot under the current system unless he starts collecting rare materials.
Also bad for players who take a break for 3 6 or 12 months and find ectos are now 2k and everyone is trading in cans of spam.

I am not against the rich becoming richer or being able outbid me in a sale but I would like to fully use my game currency without restrictions.

I am bumping this thread because I believe it should be looked at again. Ectos will never go away and people need obby armor for HoM. It would be nice to buy things that cost between 100-1000k without having to convert to ectos every damn time.

I got Obsidian armor in one moth. Never traded, farmed or had to keep more than 100K in the storage at any time for it.

I just played daily and bought obsidian and ectoplasm with the gold I got from drops, missions and quests.


Since there's no actual trade system and those that bother to trade are not as many people as you think, raising the cap would probably just increase inflation.

The less you can hoard of something, the better.

That's why runes shouldn't be stackable.



What the game really needs is an actual global trading system like almost any other RPG has.
If the game had it, you'll see the prices going down to their proper prices rather quickly.

The cap should be maintained as it is.

By raising the cap people would just hoard gold instead of other items (or even hoard both) till they cry to Anet again that they have too much gold and it's needed to increase the cap again.
And if Anet removed the cap for good there would be people carrying around the world weight in gold, not mentioning the crash on ectos/armbraces prices.

Besides the cap keeps the economy alive by using items for high end purchases, this way a shift in the meta has a greater impact on the market (at least in the first moments).
The fluctuation on ecto and armbraces price was mostly due changes in the game. Obviously at this point we won't see much more changes (unless SF gets nerfed to oblivion) but we never know what Anet is thinking and could very well address to the speed the SC's are getting ectos/armbraces (which is ridiculous atm).

Another point is that there are people who don't like/want fow armor but get a lot of gold in their hands without the desire to trade it.
If the gold cap is removed they'll have no incentive to trade their gold for other items and causing more problems for the current community, since ectos/armbraces are more of a currency than a material.