Blinding Surge [Needs Toning Down] - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Regulus X

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

N/A

D/W

24 Jan 2010 at 19:53 - 1

All melee in 4v4's bane, this elite promotes 1-1-1-1 spammage and complete shutdown every four seconds. I've seen E/Me's with B.Surge + Distortion + Grasping Earth to literally make meleers pull their hair from their heads! I mostly see /N with rip enchantments and enfeeble. Blind alone usually does the job, but now weakening them so that IF they land any attacks they'll be reduced by 66%? Even the players using them admit it's overpowered!

In 4v4 RA/CA, this elite is just too good and begging for a nerf. In 8v8 format it's understood that you'll have a 3+ healing/condition-removal backline so you'll hardly have any troubles with blind. For the sake of us 4v4 goons, NERF BLINDING SURGE. My suggestion is to increase it's recharge to 8 seconds and increase the cast time to 1 second. That way ele's can't get too carried away with abusing the blind condition. It makes having a -40% blind redux actually become USEFUL and not USELESS as it currently is vs. this crapload of suck.

Nerf.

B.

SURGE.

NOTE: APATHETIC TOM IS PROHIBITTED FROM POSTING ANYWHERE ON THIS THREAD IF IT HAS ANY TROLL IN IT WHATSOEVER.

Songbringer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

EastCoast

E/Me

24 Jan 2010 at 21:00 - 2

Lets split PvP into 3 catagories. 4v4 |Real PvP | HA. We can nerf everything just for 4v4. Then have real skill balances in actual pvp. Then in HA we can add the addition of PvE skills and 4 more skill slots.

Hm, now we just need to add real pvp to the game.

QQ MOAR PLOX +1 b4 close

jackinthe

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

24 Jan 2010 at 21:11 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

Lets split PvP into 3 catagories. 4v4 |Real PvP | HA. We can nerf everything just for 4v4. Then have real skill balances in actual pvp. Then in HA we can add the addition of PvE skills and 4 more skill slots.

Hm, now we just need to add real pvp to the game.

QQ MOAR PLOX +1 b4 close

AB, JQ, and FA are all REAL PVP NOW!

jonnieboi05

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mableton, Georgia

Guild Ancestors Reunited [?????????]

24 Jan 2010 at 21:22 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

Lets split PvP into 3 catagories. 4v4 |Real PvP | HA. We can nerf everything just for 4v4. Then have real skill balances in actual pvp. Then in HA we can add the addition of PvE skills and 4 more skill slots.

Hm, now we just need to add real pvp to the game.

QQ MOAR PLOX +1 b4 close

Lol. This sums it up for you. And yes, JQ/FA/RA is some srs bsns.

Regulus X

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

N/A

D/W

24 Jan 2010 at 21:34 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

Lets split PvP into 3 catagories. 4v4 |Real PvP | HA. We can nerf everything just for 4v4. Then have real skill balances in actual pvp. Then in HA we can add the addition of PvE skills and 4 more skill slots.

Hm, now we just need to add real pvp to the game.

QQ MOAR PLOX +1 b4 close

I don't care if you think 4v4 isn't "real PvP" to you.

PvP = PvP = Player versus Player = Click Enter/Fight Against Non-NPC Characters (or) REAL PLAYERS = Pee vee Pee

Just because it's not the biggest fish in the pond, it doesn't stop it from BEING A FISH. All the fishies need the proper balance in order to survive. If RA were your fish, I bet you'd never feed it, clean out the water tank, and let it poop itself to a fecal death! If RA were your second child, and HA your first, would you lock your second child in your basement and feed him/her bread & water while you take your first child to Chuck E Cheeses and Universal Studios? PROBABLY SO, but thankfully enough you're not a GW1 developer; now, are you? If you were a GW1 Dev., RA/CA would be locked into a most miserable 1-1-1-1-1-1'ing experience for the rest of its natural existence!

B.Surge is the bane of all meleekind, and it needs to be toned down. What's so hard about increasing the recharge and cast time just a teeny little bit to tip meleers' (wearing -40% blind redux modifiers) chances of winning?

B.Surge outshines Signet of Midnite because it has damage. It'll soon outshine EDA when it goes Scythe/Melee attacks only. It totally bogs down matches in RA and CA waaay too much. If Anet has any hopes left in CA they'll tone B.Surge down because otherwise it's just too overwhelming and will force players to roll caster because B.Surge is just too lame to deal with. Players would probably have a better chance of separating fly poop from pepper than win against B.Surge. They'd probably have a better chance running out into a storm and dodging rain. They'd have a better chance of getting out a real-life maze with their eyes plucked out of their skulls. B.Surge is ASS, and it's making RA and CA an even bigger pile of crap than before! I face B.Surgers ALMOST EVERY ROUND in RA. Just imagine when B.Surge has its turn in CA? Can somebody say Roll All Casters Day?! Because nobody wants to deal with being completely shut down as soon as the B.Surger presses the unholy button ONE.

Warvic

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2009

The Netherlands

A/W

24 Jan 2010 at 21:45 - 6

I totally agree! Even with a monk I am blinded 24/7. Bsurge has an super short recharge. the casting time is not that long either. I only play melee because I like that. But It can be so anoying :P

And people saying 4v4 is not real pvp are not rly smart lol. you play versus other players. So it's pvp duh! I think there r more people who play RA then HA.. So yh let's f*ck HA

I'm using a anti blind shield 24/7 lol

IrishX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

W/

24 Jan 2010 at 21:53 - 7

Option 1: Run rend touch and strip it's attune. It'll run out of energy pretty fast.
Option 2: Run Mend/Plague touch. Problem solved.
Option 3: Count recharge, shock it, kill BSurge.

And yes, I do RA when I'm bored and not GvGing. I have never really had an issue with BSurge there. The AoE is pretty irrelevant, since you aren't adrenal spiking with another warrior or anything that requires converging.

Regulus X

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

N/A

D/W

24 Jan 2010 at 22:06 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishX

Option 1: Run rend touch and strip it's attune. It'll run out of energy pretty fast.
Option 2: Run Mend/Plague touch. Problem solved.
Option 3: Count recharge, shock it, kill BSurge.

And yes, I do RA when I'm bored and not GvGing. I have never really had an issue with BSurge there. The AoE is pretty irrelevant, since you aren't adrenal spiking with another warrior or anything that requires converging.

The only problem with that is:

No Choice 1: They have shock arrows and AoR every 12 seconds as well as a 15/15 set (which is more than enough to continue 1-1-1-1'ing B.Surge.
No Choice 2: On meleers, it sacrifices utility, and especially on warriors using p.touch depletes your energy fast.. 3-5 uses and you're pretty much out of energy, so you have to choose between frenzying again? or another p.touch; and the ele I faced had B.Flash as well, so that's 10e every 4 seconds a warrior has to use just to rid of blind.. Is this just?
No Choice 3: 2-3 uses of shock and you're completely exhausted; any RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO-ups and you're assed out for a pretty long time [until exhaustion wears off and you regain your energy that is]!

I'd rather not deal with the bullshit and just tone B.Surge down a little bit.

NoConnection

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

A/W

24 Jan 2010 at 22:22 - 9

you again ...
finally u realized that bsurge is the problem not blind itself...
/agree its a little op'd for 4v4's but anet doesnt do shit about the real stuff so why should they care about 4v4's?

X Ghoul

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2009

IGN: X Ghoul

Mega M O R P H I N Power Ranger [pR]

Rt/W

24 Jan 2010 at 22:35 - 10

With how long this game is out I am still shocked people still think they need to take their pimped out melee character to ra. ra in itself is a joke imo, go play ha or gvg if you want to "pvp"

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

24 Jan 2010 at 22:35 - 11

First off, any time I'm in RA it's on a warrior, so I've had plenty of experience against it and I have no serious problem with it. Anyway - let's compare to Blinding Flash at 14 Air Magic since I haven't heard any complaints about its balance in quite some time (unless you want to count your ridiculous "nerf blind" thread).

Casting time and recharge are exactly the same.
Energy - 15 for nonelite, 10 for elite. Point for Surge.
Damage - 0 for nonelite, 47 (+25% AP) for elite. Point for Surge.
Effect - 8 seconds blind for nonelite, 7 seconds adjacent blind for elite. Point for Surge.

When you look at the differences individually, I don't have a problem with any of them. Like I said, I also don't really have a problem combined. However, I can understand why people would be pissy about it being three steps better, so just equalize one of those three and then nobody should be able to complain about it in any format.

Also, just for the record, it's very hard to take you seriously between your troll posts and taking everything to extremes.

EDIT: if they decide to get rid of all the other power creep, then yes, blow the shit out of this skill. Not gonna happen though.

Regulus X

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

N/A

D/W

24 Jan 2010 at 22:55 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

First off, any time I'm in RA it's on a warrior, so I've had plenty of experience against it and I have no serious problem with it. Anyway - let's compare to Blinding Flash at 14 Air Magic since I haven't heard any complaints about its balance in quite some time (unless you want to count your ridiculous "nerf blind" thread).

Casting time and recharge are exactly the same.
Energy - 15 for nonelite, 10 for elite. Point for Surge.
Damage - 0 for nonelite, 47 (+25% AP) for elite. Point for Surge.
Effect - 8 seconds blind for nonelite, 7 seconds adjacent blind for elite. Point for Surge.

When you look at the differences individually, I don't have a problem with any of them. Like I said, I also don't really have a problem combined. However, I can understand why people would be pissy about it being three steps better, so just equalize one of those three and then nobody should be able to complain about it in any format.

Also, just for the record, it's very hard to take you seriously between your troll posts and taking everything to extremes.

EDIT: if they decide to get rid of all the other power creep, then yes, blow the shit out of this skill. Not gonna happen though.

If you don't have problems with B.Surge, then maybe the B.Surgers you've been up against were obviously retarded. Maybe they were too busy trying to blind your monk? Or maybe you had an E.Lunge R/P ally that managed to take him down for you? Or maybe your friendly R/Mo kept M.Touching you so you could actually do something? Or god forbid your MONK actually removed your blinds for you, and the B.Surger you were up against wasn't a /N with Enfeeble and/or B.Flash while L.Orbing your monk to death! Either way, you were probably just lucky. I've won against B.Surge a bit myself, but it's very mind-numbing! All the skill in the world can be crushed if one of those 1-1-1-1's happens to be on your Dev Hammer/Hammer Bash/D.Chops. All the trouble we as melee have to go through just to land that D.Chop, and in the end your monk's probably drained, your team's red bars are near nothing and the only on left standing is you.

Nerfing B.Surge to 1 second casts and 8 second recharges would go a long way in 4v4! That and your -40% blind modifiers would actually MEAN something.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

24 Jan 2010 at 22:57 - 13

a. Bsurge is not a problem outside of 4v4.

b. Hexes are even more broken in 4v4 than spammable blind.

Your average monk bar for RA these days needs at least two hex removals to keep up with even just one hexer. If your monks could devote two slots to condition removal, I'm sure you'd be whining much less.

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

24 Jan 2010 at 23:30 - 14

This is nothing more than a GIANT QQ MORE PLZ THREAD.

Regulus X

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

N/A

D/W

24 Jan 2010 at 23:57 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

This is nothing more than a GIANT QQ MORE PLZ THREAD.

Yea, and it seems all the B.Surge [ab]users are coming here to troll me about it.

@ Lemming, true that hexes are far more broken than blind because blind in and of itself doesn't do damage, and your average monk normally does have 2 hex removals [veil + cure/spotless/etc.]. The thing about that is that there's no viable way for monks to constantly and effectively remove blind every 4 seconds without draining their entire energy pool, and necros' FF is almost useless because the recharge is 1 second more than bsurge. Not to mention that if the ele has a 40/40 set [and I'll guarantee you he DOES] he'll be able to spam it every 2 seconds almost half the time.

Now, blind by itself will only delay offensive progress, but if you throw empathy, weakness, VoR, SS, SV, LC, etc.. in there... you just have no RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing chance! It's bad enough you're missing 90% of shit, but now whatever damage you land will be negated by 66% and you'll be taking heaps of damage from empathy [especially when frenzied/praged] and your monk just can't do anything about it! Even if you sacrifice shock for p.touch, m.touch, remove hex, etc.. you're still going to be overloaded and your monk can do diddly squat about it! This means that every time you encounter a b.surge + domination mesmer, you'd might as well throw in the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing towel and resign/afk because you're not going to amount to anything. I personally just camp the mesmer to get his attention and empathy me so that I can frenzy + spear them and die fast! It's pretty lame.. If I had empathy but no blind every RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing 4 seconds I'd at least auto-attack a little bit and try to win it, but with b.surge in my face there's just no way to win...

sonofthort

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Legends Of Melee [SSBM]

Mo/

25 Jan 2010 at 01:15 - 16

BSURGE is not a problem in 4v4. The only time it is a problem is when your team is unbalanced, and has too much melee. This is a pure result of your team being unbalanced, and does not reflect that the skill is over powered. Think about it, you get a good RA or ab team, and you only have one melee, maybe one ranger, sure, the ele can keep blinding the melee, but thats all they are gonna be doing, its basically an eye for an eye, not to mention a good monk will keep removing blind, and rangers should use mending touch.

Imo, blintbot dervs are much more annoying than blinding surge ele's. the blind lasts longer, and is instantly covered by another condition, making it very difficult to remove.

Lord Dagon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2009

Inside the Oblivion Gate

The Imperial Guards of Istan[TIGE]

E/Me

25 Jan 2010 at 01:29 - 17

eh /notsigned.

it gives casters a fighting chance against meele ppl. It keeps blind on them. Learn to live w/ it and fight. Ur a warrior or derv.. learn this fact and flow w/ it.

Owik Gall

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guardians of the Light

W/Mo

25 Jan 2010 at 01:32 - 18

I thought the last nerf was good enough to keep this balanced. It stopped from affecting adjacent foes easily by adding the condition that the foe has to be enchanted. I guess that ain't enough. I suppose that in order to make blinding skills actually balanced in this game the blindness durations would now have to be less than the recharge times. That way it will force the inflicting players to think rather than spam, spam, spam.

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

25 Jan 2010 at 01:39 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

I thought the last nerf was good enough to keep this balanced. It stopped from affecting adjacent foes easily by adding the condition that the foe has to be enchanted.

Might want to recheck your updates. The last thing related to Blinding Surge was a buff back in December '08 that completely removed the enchantment requirement for adjacent blind.

Still don't care either way tbh.

Windf0rce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

25 Jan 2010 at 01:50 - 20

/not signed for all reasons stated above.

Besides, the skill is good, but too specific. Taking Bsurge template (usually an enchant removal, Enervating, etc.) and facing a team of 4 casters / no physicals puts you at a large disadvantage. If you face a team of 3 physicals, you smile... High risk/high reward skill is fine IMHO.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

25 Jan 2010 at 02:15 - 21

12 axe/9 strength/9 domination

dismember
body blow
disrupting chop
bull's strike
powerblock
frenzy
rush
res sig

Quality skill bar.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

25 Jan 2010 at 02:43 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

NOTE: APATHETIC TOM IS PROHIBITTED FROM POSTING ANYWHERE ON THIS THREAD IF IT HAS ANY TROLL IN IT WHATSOEVER.

I wasn't trolling, just offering a suggestion to help you.

BoxOfCox

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

CA

Wars

25 Jan 2010 at 03:28 - 23

1. Wear Rune of Clarity and -20% blind shield.
2. Receive Bsurge
3. Count to 4.
4. Press shock.
5. If ele did not spam Bsurge on recharge when you shocked him (2.5% chance in RA), press Dchop as he stands up.
6. ???
7. Profit!

Alternatively, I find Apathetic Tom's suggestion was quite solid as well:

The Drunkard

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2007

Still looking

Rt/

25 Jan 2010 at 03:38 - 24

I frequent RA and I have seen very few blindbots recently, most of which are the dual attune eles with blinding flash. I don't think it's that big of a deal but w/e.

Why not just bring back the enchant clause, that way it only punishes the wars stupid enough to bring mending?

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

25 Jan 2010 at 03:43 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxOfCox

Alternatively, I find Apathetic Tom's suggestion was quite solid as well:

See Regulus, i told you. shit also wrecks monks too.

obsidian ectoplasm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

25 Jan 2010 at 06:29 - 26

B surge is OP. ( 4v4)

Does it urgently need a nerf? No

Aljasha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2009

25 Jan 2010 at 14:10 - 27

as a warrior take -40% blind reduction runes and shield mod and as a ranger mend condition. problem solved.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

25 Jan 2010 at 15:16 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aljasha

as a warrior take -40% blind reduction runes and shield mod and as a ranger mend condition. problem solved.

mending touch? you can't self target with mend condition.

Ariena Najea

Silence and Motion

Join Date: Jul 2006

Buffalo NY

New Horizon [NH]

25 Jan 2010 at 16:30 - 29

Hehe, Power Block does seem fun on a Warrior!

Having a Clarity Rune and a -20% Shield does allow Blind to end before BSurge is recast, assuming they don't hit HSR. Most people use it on recharge, so either interrupting or kding works fine. Just remember to have the Shield on before you get hit with BSurge, since you won't reduce the duration of Blind by switching to the shield after it has been applied.

Also, Dom Mesmers wreck BSurge. It's often a good investment to drop a Diversion onto the BSurge Ele, since they are generally so reliable and you save some pressure from your Monk(s), as well as pressure their Monks more than just Diverting even a key skill such as Word of Healing. Also, Power Block =)

Regulus X

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

N/A

D/W

25 Jan 2010 at 18:07 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobi Madera

eh /notsigned.

it gives casters a fighting chance against meele ppl. It keeps blind on them. Learn to live w/ it and fight. Ur a warrior or derv.. learn this fact and flow w/ it.

So does empathy, distortion, Bonetti’s, Insidious Parasite, Blurred Vision, the rest of the Air Magic Line [and I could keep going on & on & on &..] B.Surge’s current recharge and cast time paired with a 40/40 is a recipe for overpoweredness!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

I thought the last nerf was good enough to keep this balanced. It stopped from affecting adjacent foes easily by adding the condition that the foe has to be enchanted. I guess that ain't enough. I suppose that in order to make blinding skills actually balanced in this game the blindness durations would now have to be less than the recharge times. That way it will force the inflicting players to think rather than spam, spam, spam.

They had it that way initially for a reason. It baffles me til this very day as to why they buffed it to stupid 1-1-1-L-O-L-1-L-1-O-1-L-1-proportions. I totally agree on that last sentence. Too bad there’s just too many players using them in 4v4 that don’t care and/or want it to go away because they’re winning way too easily and love it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windf0rce

/not signed for all reasons stated above.

Besides, the skill is good, but too specific. Taking Bsurge template (usually an enchant removal, Enervating, etc.) and facing a team of 4 casters / no physicals puts you at a large disadvantage. If you face a team of 3 physicals, you smile... High risk/high reward skill is fine IMHO.

Even versus a caster teams, B.Surgers still deal damage sufficient to help your allies spike them down [unless P.Blocked, in which case.. it really doesn’t matter WHAT caster type you are!].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathetic Tom

12 axe/9 strength/9 domination

dismember
body blow
disrupting chop
bull's strike
powerblock
frenzy
rush
res sig

Quality skill bar.

+1 for originality. However, it’s pretty sad how ya’ll support sacking utility for this jaundice. You also have to hope that you catch a B.Surge cast where it’s cast time’s unaffected by the 40/40 set. Otherwise, you’ve just spend 15e failing. I’m not going to say it doesn’t work, but since B.Surge is 3/4ths cast and I don’t use a rupt bot macro, it’s kinda tough to P.Block B.Surge while the chaos ensues [especially without the Fast Cast]. Any lag, or if his 40/40 speeds it up, and you’ve just wasted your time and effort. If you always 100% land P.Block on 3/4th cast spells, then rupt botting comes into mind. Sorry, I just don’t trust any players to be legit. Just my personal opinion, though [not that you should take it to heart].

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTzF3aR

stop whining.

Stop posting [if you can’t post anything relating to the topic that is]!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

I frequent RA and I have seen very few blindbots recently, most of which are the dual attune eles with blinding flash. I don't think it's that big of a deal but w/e.

Why not just bring back the enchant clause, that way it only punishes the wars stupid enough to bring mending?

You’re obviously either just lying? Or you’re just not playing enough Random Arenas to notice them..! Or you’ve just had a stroke of incredibly good luck! If luck is the case, then let me borrow your Rabbits’ Foot! O0

Quote:

Originally Posted by obsidian ectoplasm

B surge is OP. ( 4v4)

Does it urgently need a nerf? No

That’s really all you needed to say. My point has been further validated having read that particular segment.

Windf0rce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

25 Jan 2010 at 18:39 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

I’m not going to say it doesn’t work, but since B.Surge is 3/4ths cast and I don’t use a rupt bot macro, it’s kinda tough to P.Block B.Surge while the chaos ensues [especially without the Fast Cast]. Any lag, or if his 40/40 speeds it up, and you’ve just wasted your time and effort. If you always 100% land P.Block on 3/4th cast spells, then rupt botting comes into mind. Sorry, I just don’t trust any players to be legit. Just my personal opinion, though [not that you should take it to heart].

You are terrible if you can't reliably interrupt BSurge or any other 3/4cast spell (Word of Healing comes to mind), even if you can't reflex it, you can eventually predict it and land the rupt.

I've had my WoH D-shotted way more times than I can count by good Rangers out there - note that there's even the arrow flight time here. Saying a non-Mesmer can't run Power Block (or any other 1/4 cast rupt spell) reliably because he lacks Fast Casting is perhaps the biggest joke in this already hilarious thread (or biggest troll of the thread).

3/4casts can be easily Dchopped too, even with a not so optimal ping you should be able to predict it -if you are Blind, predict-Shock it. Or wait until the Blind is almost over (almost time for the Ele to want to renew it), Shock the ele, by the time he gets up and your Blind is gone, you can be certain he will cast Bsurge as soon as he gets up, it is when you Dchop it.

Or yell at your Ranger/Necro/Mesmer to stop being idiots and interrupt/divert/pblock/remove the ele attunes. There are tons of options - if your team has none, you deserve to lose anyway because you lack disruption.

If I started a thread QQ'ing about how much a Dom Mesmer completely OWNS a Monk in RA, everybody would tell me the same - it's fine, your team simply needs to disrupt the Mesmer, because if he is left alone doing his job, the Monk will not do his'/hers. Same applies to Ele x Melee = leave the Ele do his thing, he will wreck your damage (be with Blind, or Water snares).

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

25 Jan 2010 at 18:47 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

Even versus a caster teams, B.Surgers still deal damage sufficient to help your allies spike them down [unless P.Blocked, in which case.. it really doesn’t matter WHAT caster type you are!].

because people stand still and let an ele with poor damage output slowly kill them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

+1 for originality. However, it’s pretty sad how ya’ll support sacking utility for this jaundice. You also have to hope that you catch a B.Surge cast where it’s cast time’s unaffected by the 40/40 set. Otherwise, you’ve just spend 15e failing. I’m not going to say it doesn’t work, but since B.Surge is 3/4ths cast and I don’t use a rupt bot macro, it’s kinda tough to P.Block B.Surge while the chaos ensues [especially without the Fast Cast]. Any lag, or if his 40/40 speeds it up, and you’ve just wasted your time and effort. If you always 100% land P.Block on 3/4th cast spells, then rupt botting comes into mind. Sorry, I just don’t trust any players to be legit. Just my personal opinion, though [not that you should take it to heart].

if you camp zealous, p block is easy enough to use, and it has greater utility than shock, and you can easily wreck any casting profession with it. and 3/4s is easy enough to rupt if you wait for it, and you can also weapon swap to a 4040 dom set and a +30 set, or +20e staff for extra energy, failing that, hit a slower spell. otherwise, just earn to counter b surge, OR, get your teammates to help you kill the ele, rather than complain about an easy to counter skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

You’re obviously either just lying? Or you’re just not playing enough Random Arenas to notice them..! Or you’ve just had a stroke of incredibly good luck! If luck is the case, then let me borrow your Rabbits’ Foot! O0

actually, his statement was completely accurate, the sheer mass of air eles i encounter in RA are using mind shock, their dps is still barely decent, but it's a hell of a lot better than a b surge ele.

All in all, i'd say your best bet would be to get good. whining about a skill that you have a problem with isn't really going to solve anything, and the sooner you learn to count to 4 and press shock, the sooner you can actually start to win.

Regulus X

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

N/A

D/W

25 Jan 2010 at 18:51 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windf0rce

You are terrible if you can't reliably interrupt BSurge or any other 3/4cast spell (Word of Healing comes to mind), even if you can't reflex it, you can eventually predict it and land the rupt.

I've had my WoH D-shotted way more times than I can count by good Rangers out there - note that there's even the arrow flight time here. Saying a non-Mesmer can't run Power Block (or any other 1/4 cast rupt spell) reliably because he lacks Fast Casting is perhaps the biggest joke in this already hilarious thread (or biggest troll of the thread).

3/4casts can be easily Dchopped too, even with a not so optimal ping you should be able to predict it -if you are Blind, predict-Shock it. Or wait until the Blind is almost over (almost time for the Ele to want to renew it), Shock the ele, by the time he gets up and your Blind is gone, you can be certain he will cast Bsurge as soon as he gets up, it is when you Dchop it.

Or yell at your Ranger/Necro/Mesmer to stop being idiots and interrupt/divert/pblock/remove the ele attunes. There are tons of options - if your team has none, you deserve to lose anyway because you lack disruption.

Predicting and shooting at the time you "think" he/she's going to use it eventually converts to a term known as "spamming", and for rangers it's LOL easy to. I get them all the time! Mesmers using P.Block on the other hand are a totally different story. Fast Cast, one chance, one shot; either you land it and win or you miss it [namely due to either lag, their 40/40 set, or unpredictable castings].

(Again) If you can rupt B.Surge reliably 100% of the time as you seem to be claiming, you're either rupt-botting, or have really good connectivity and "luck" because knowing when someone's going to cast something is nearly impossible! What if the caster doesn't cast when you thought he would? It's then called spam; P.Block cannot be spammed! If you're landing rupts on important skills 100% of the time without fail on all key skills/spells? YOU'RE A RUPT BOTTER. When I see Magebane, Savage and D.Shot appear in my damage monitor alot without successfully rupting my skills/spells, I can tell that the ranger's actually playing. Same goes for when they luck out and hit some of my spells. But when I see a ranger rupting all my important skills/spells 100% of the time, that's when I raise the bullshit flag [especially if I see a LOL gold cape on him because GvG & HA are swamped with rupt-botters].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathetic Tom

if you camp zealous, p block is easy enough to use, and it has greater utility than shock, and you can easily wreck any casting profession with it. and 3/4s is easy enough to rupt if you wait for it, and you can also weapon swap to a 4040 dom set and a +30 set, or +20e staff for extra energy, failing that, hit a slower spell. otherwise, just earn to counter b surge, OR, get your teammates to help you kill the ele, rather than complain about an easy to counter skill.

I'm going to test out your P.Block War a bit to see how it fairs out. Also, stop labelling me a "whiner" [please] because my arguement is rather solid; I'm not the only one who thinks B.Surge is OPd as you can see in this thread, and even during matches vs. these 1-1-1-1-1'ing [ab]users. Just re-read this thread and see for yourself. You've even admitted it's OP'd in 4v4 along with some others, so it's no secret!

Dabineh Deathbringer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2010

N/A

W/

25 Jan 2010 at 19:49 - 34

/not signed. This skill at first I thought was OP, but that is because I was a melee class. Once I rolled a caster I thought it was way too underpowered. Against a caster class, like windf0rce said, you are at a huge disadvantage with this as your elite.

If you're going to rant about this spell, maybe you should rant about Broad head arrow or anything that gives dazed condition. If used correctly, that shuts down a caster like this spell shuts down a melee.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

25 Jan 2010 at 20:01 - 35

Is it worth pointing out that, save for the enchantment clause on the skill, BSurge is currently the weakest it's ever been? The blind duration has been hit multiple times, and I can't see any history on the wiki of its base stats ever being any worse than it is now. Why are you so on about this skill now, when it's been out for years now in its current (or more powerful) state in 4v4? I don't remember anyone ever complaining about this skill as much as you.

Puebert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/

25 Jan 2010 at 20:05 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

Neither is EDA [strip all enchants to win], but it didn't stop Anet from nerfing EDA, now did it? B.Surge is just a spell-based form of EDA. B.Surge should be right next to EDA on their nerf-list. Should we jump through a million hoops vs B.Surge as we did for EDA? NO.

EDA is different. It's much harder to rupt and dishes out free blind every two attacks. The amount of blind coming from EDA is bounded only by the speed which you can attack. BSurge is bounded by a mandatory 4 second recharge, and in that time EDA can blind 2 or even 3 people.

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

25 Jan 2010 at 20:38 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxOfCox

Alternatively, I find Apathetic Tom's suggestion was quite solid as well:

I won't tell you to run Power Block on a Warrior, but I do find the picture hilarious. The reason it makes a good point is missed by you, and maybe others who haven't posted. It is different. You get shut down by Blinding Surge because you do the same thing over and over, and do not bring a counter, or at least dont' use a counter correctly. As mentioned, there are plenty of ways to deal with the Blind. Try using them until you find one that fits your playstyle best. And if you don't think there are players out there who can reliably interrupt 3/4 cast spells, you don't know much. I can remember playing my Monk in AB, one of the arenas most known for noobs. I am not a PvP Monk though, and I certainly would never claim to be one. I ran a trypical hybrid build with WoH, Guardian, PS, Patient, and Cure. His first interrupt was good timing, as I didn't realize he was there yet, and he hit my Cure Hex with Savage Shot. Not a big deal, only a 1 second cast. But when I used WoH next, I got hit with DShot.... ouch. Went to Patient next, and that is a 1/4 second cast, and got that one cast. BUT, he wasn't done. Even with me moving around to try and make him miss, I got hit casting PS, which is a 1/4 and until his team killed me, I was able to cast only 1 spell. ONLY that one Ranger dealing with arrow flight was interrupting me, no Mesmer around. So it is definitely possible to reliably interrupt a 3/4 cast skill, and if you know the patterns people like to use, as well as the castnig speed and recharges, you can hit 1/4 second casts.

Basically, you need to improve. If blind is pwning you so bad, and you can't find a counter that works, you need to learn how to improve.

Regulus X

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

N/A

D/W

25 Jan 2010 at 21:16 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Is it worth pointing out that, save for the enchantment clause on the skill, BSurge is currently the weakest it's ever been? The blind duration has been hit multiple times, and I can't see any history on the wiki of its base stats ever being any worse than it is now. Why are you so on about this skill now, when it's been out for years now in its current (or more powerful) state in 4v4? I don't remember anyone ever complaining about this skill as much as you.

And as weak as it is, it's still OP'd because it can keep any melee permanently shut down. As to your "why now" question: RA has seen a huge influx in B.Surge usage. Similar to any OP'd FotM build, players usually just turn to the next best and generally OP'd skill, condition, etc.. to abuse. No one thought LC or Mind Blast Distortion ele's were overpowered namely because either a.) THEY'RE THE ONES LOL [AB]USING THE LOL BUILD THEMSELVES IN LOL PVP while saying shit like, "Qq sum moar scrub! LOLOL" so they LOL OFC SUPPORT IT, or b.) they don't PvP anyways, so "Who gives a shit/Qq Moar Scrub/Just find a counter somewhere, STFU + DEAL WITH IT?" was their motto.

The only ones that griped about it were the ones that got repeatedly lamed and rick-rolled, forcing them to spec. just to specifically counter their "lame" while losing to other more normal, less OP'd teams. It's a lose-lose situation; a catch-22.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

EDA is different. It's much harder to rupt and dishes out free blind every two attacks. The amount of blind coming from EDA is bounded only by the speed which you can attack. BSurge is bounded by a mandatory 4 second recharge, and in that time EDA can blind 2 or even 3 people.

Enchantment Removal FTW? At least that's what players told me all the time until the more competent players realized it was OP'd; the lame just kept [ab]using OPd builds and disapproving of its nerfage.

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

25 Jan 2010 at 21:25 - 39

B surge is strong in RA. Hexes are even worse.

Mending touch/Antidote signet rangers> B surge ele

Anet removed TA rather than deal with skills that are OP in 4v4.

Your nerf isn't coming. So if I were you, I'd go mesmer/ranger and beat them silly.

Regulus X

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

N/A

D/W

25 Jan 2010 at 21:38 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

B surge is strong in RA. Hexes are even worse.

Mending touch/Antidote signet rangers> B surge ele

Anet removed TA rather than deal with skills that are OP in 4v4.

Your nerf isn't coming. So if I were you, I'd go mesmer/ranger and beat them silly.

B.Surge > All possible condition removals in-game [sacrifices utility and drains warriors' energy pool or takes too long to cast *esp. Antidote Signet.. it takes longer to cast removals than it does to cast B.Surge, and B.Surgers have a 40/40 set to reapply it every 2s almost half the time*]

It shows how much /care they have for their game, doesn't it..

I know, but I just like stating the obvious and lamenting over Anet's apathy while simultaneously being trolled on my thread by 1337ists claiming that P.Block is LOL viable, or that energy-draining condition removals such as P.Touch, M. Touch, etc.. are viable ..and what you're saying is that if you're not a R/Mo with M.Touch, S/D.Shot and Magebane stapled to your bar, or if you're not taking some erroneous elites [like LOL P.Block] just to counter one f*cking spell because it's OBVIOUSLY OVERPOWERED like some of our posters have already implied... YOU'RE @$$3D OUT.