So I want to know what people like to bring in HM for Paras and what Kind of build structure they use. I made a team build using OoV for starters and ideas are welcome.
I like using Anthem of Disruption, Envy, and Weariness, but I'm willing to try out new things. I'm not really interested in Motigons unless you have a strong statement otherwise.
Though stunning strike is take very often, how viable do yall think of Soldier's fury. It's good bar compression by removing AR as IAS leaving 1 slot open, and the adren gain is good for powering anthems. Shouts/chants that are good to go with Soldier's Fury are SY, TNTG, Stand your ground, Theyre on fire and others. Thoughts?
EDIT:
Sorry I should have clarified - I'm looking for paragon(s) for HM other than the 2 command, motivation, D/N dark orders build.
There is already a Racway thread.
Para heroes in HM
MasterSasori
Zodiac Meteor
The infamous Racway
Racway
This one isn't favored as much though.
Racway
This one isn't favored as much though.
MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor
mage767
Try combining paragons with pets for some uber-lolwtf...racway needs heavy modifictions if you still want your 2 paragon heroes with your para main. Also, kick the D/N, and get a MM/curse hybrid with barbs and Mark of Pain..
Go destroy everything nicely...
Go destroy everything nicely...
Elon's Rose
Considering Soldier's Fury is getting the Cracked Armor treatment soon (with the MAT update), Stunning Strike is still the preferred Elite on a command hero. "Incoming!" is something to think about, though, if you like to use an IMS or don't feel like you need stunning (I pretty much only need it when facing Monks and Elementalists in HM). With Incoming+Fall Back, a hero can typically keep you in permanent 33% IMS when moving from fight to fight, and it generally doesn't need an orders hero either (since Incoming/Fall Back are both energy based).
I tend to use something like...
Swift Spear
Vicious Spear
"Incoming!" (Elite)
"Fall Back!"
Anthem of Envy
Anthem of Weariness
Aggressive Refrain
Signet of Return
with 10+1 Spear Mastery, 10+2 Leadership, and 11+1+1 Command
I tend to use something like...
Swift Spear
Vicious Spear
"Incoming!" (Elite)
"Fall Back!"
Anthem of Envy
Anthem of Weariness
Aggressive Refrain
Signet of Return
with 10+1 Spear Mastery, 10+2 Leadership, and 11+1+1 Command
ac1inferno
I find Paragon heroes run Motivation better than Command.
[build prof=P/any motiva=11+1+2 leader=10+2 spearm=10+1 comman=1][Vicious Attack]["Go for the Eyes!"][Optional][Anthem of Flame][Ballad of Restoration][Aria of Zeal][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return][/build]
- [[Song of Purification] to remove Conditions from allies.
- [[Song of Restoration] to heal allies.
[build prof=P/any motiva=11+1+2 leader=10+2 spearm=10+1 comman=1][Vicious Attack]["Go for the Eyes!"][Optional][Anthem of Flame][Ballad of Restoration][Aria of Zeal][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return][/build]
- [[Song of Purification] to remove Conditions from allies.
- [[Song of Restoration] to heal allies.
smilingscar
I've noticed that just having anthem of weariness on the field helps dual spirit builds quite a bit.
Life Bringing
I'm slightly confused. Are you looking for additional paragon builds to run on your heroes? As in you want to keep using yourself+2 paragon heroes? Or are you just wanting a general hero setup to do general pve on your paragon?
MasterSasori
Khomet Si Netjer
My paragon runs with General Morgahn (spear/command/leadership) and Hayda (spear/motivation/leadership). I ran D/N Orders for a while and was disappointed with the results. The extra damage and adrenaline were certainly useful, but the heals were less than impressive, and overall I felt that the dervish was not pulling her weight. After the ritualist update I created an Rt/N orders build that has Splinter Weapon, SoS, bloodsong, agony, spirit siphon, order of pain, dark fury. in the last slot I put strip enchantment or well of blood or flesh of my flesh. depending on the area. I've also used an SoS healer that looks very much like the one you posted. Both work very well IMO.
compared to the orders dervish, Rt/N delivers *much* more damage because of splinter weapon @ 14+ channeling along with the armor ignoring damage from the spirits along with the Orders. The spirits also draw fire from the mobs, serving much the same purpose as a minion master, except that you have no need for corpses. This means that the ritualist works in places where the minion master is useless.
compared to the minion master, the Rt/N will give more damage (from splinter weapon and spirits) but loses the AoE explosion damage from Death Nova. You could conceivably make an N/Rt build that did minion bombing, Orders, *and* channeling, but that is spreading into four attributes already if you use soul reaping for energy.
I find that heroes with splinter weapon can reliably maintain it on two physical damage dealers and sometimes get it on three. I usually bring barrage ranger henchmen to take maximum advantage of splinter weapon. Typical vanquishing group would be 3 paragon, 1 Rt/N, 2 Ranger, 2 Monk. (healers, because the imbagon player removes the need for prot). One other thing.... maybe a lot of people are not aware of this, but some of the paragon shouts and anthems work on spirits. I definitely recommend bringing Anthem of Disruption, Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Weariness, and Go For The Eyes on your paragon or the heroes. This works well enough that I don't have Morgahn running Stunning Strike very much anymore, the interrupts are coming from every character and from the spirits too. As a final note, I run a modified imbagon with the following:
wild throw
spear of fury
save yourselves
anthem of weariness
ebon battle standard of honor
make your time
focused anger
aggressive refrain / never surrender / can't touch this / we shall return
i have max kurzick so spear of fury is giving +8 adrenaline per shot (at least), it instantly recharges SY. Make Your Time gives 4 adrenaline (doubled to 8 under focused anger) so I can throw SY instantly, even before aggroing anything. either of these methods can recharge SY or recharge Wild Throw instantly, which is a key skill because I use this to remove stances so that the other physical attackers can spike them down. I can recharge and reuse it very quickly (like every 3s or so) so it really helps. Much more useful than any other spear skill IMO. The paragons still carry swift javelin because it can go through blocking enchantments (crit defenses, aegis, etc.). You might even go so far as to put Anthem of Guidance on your command paragon. The other one should almost always be running Song of Purification to keep your attackers condition free.
with all of this in place your physical attackers will potentially have all of the following stacked up on their attacks:
go for the eyes
anthem of envy
anthem of weariness
anthem of disruption
ebon battle standard of honor
order of pain
dark fury
splinter weapon
that is a boatload of damage and utility.
compared to the orders dervish, Rt/N delivers *much* more damage because of splinter weapon @ 14+ channeling along with the armor ignoring damage from the spirits along with the Orders. The spirits also draw fire from the mobs, serving much the same purpose as a minion master, except that you have no need for corpses. This means that the ritualist works in places where the minion master is useless.
compared to the minion master, the Rt/N will give more damage (from splinter weapon and spirits) but loses the AoE explosion damage from Death Nova. You could conceivably make an N/Rt build that did minion bombing, Orders, *and* channeling, but that is spreading into four attributes already if you use soul reaping for energy.
I find that heroes with splinter weapon can reliably maintain it on two physical damage dealers and sometimes get it on three. I usually bring barrage ranger henchmen to take maximum advantage of splinter weapon. Typical vanquishing group would be 3 paragon, 1 Rt/N, 2 Ranger, 2 Monk. (healers, because the imbagon player removes the need for prot). One other thing.... maybe a lot of people are not aware of this, but some of the paragon shouts and anthems work on spirits. I definitely recommend bringing Anthem of Disruption, Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Weariness, and Go For The Eyes on your paragon or the heroes. This works well enough that I don't have Morgahn running Stunning Strike very much anymore, the interrupts are coming from every character and from the spirits too. As a final note, I run a modified imbagon with the following:
wild throw
spear of fury
save yourselves
anthem of weariness
ebon battle standard of honor
make your time
focused anger
aggressive refrain / never surrender / can't touch this / we shall return
i have max kurzick so spear of fury is giving +8 adrenaline per shot (at least), it instantly recharges SY. Make Your Time gives 4 adrenaline (doubled to 8 under focused anger) so I can throw SY instantly, even before aggroing anything. either of these methods can recharge SY or recharge Wild Throw instantly, which is a key skill because I use this to remove stances so that the other physical attackers can spike them down. I can recharge and reuse it very quickly (like every 3s or so) so it really helps. Much more useful than any other spear skill IMO. The paragons still carry swift javelin because it can go through blocking enchantments (crit defenses, aegis, etc.). You might even go so far as to put Anthem of Guidance on your command paragon. The other one should almost always be running Song of Purification to keep your attackers condition free.
with all of this in place your physical attackers will potentially have all of the following stacked up on their attacks:
go for the eyes
anthem of envy
anthem of weariness
anthem of disruption
ebon battle standard of honor
order of pain
dark fury
splinter weapon
that is a boatload of damage and utility.
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer
Quote: Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer
One other thing.... maybe a lot of people are not aware of this, but some of the paragon shouts and anthems work on spirits. I definitely recommend bringing Anthem of Disruption, Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Weariness, and Go For The Eyes on your paragon or the heroes.
Yes I recently learned of this. It pays to do your research. 
re: GFTE I am not 100% sure that it works on spirit damage, I have seen higher numbers floating around but that may have been anthem of envy. that's only a minor side benefit anyway, it certainly works on the 3 paragons and 2 rangers that I usually bring in the group.
re: anthem of disruption, anthem of weariness... the spirits tend to attack who you are attacking, and so behave just as heroes do. this is not entirely bad though, if you are attacking a monk or ele boss you can imagine how repeated interrupts coming in from 5 physicals and spirits would be helpful.
i will repeat what has often been said before, paragons get stronger in groups, if you are running a paragon you should certainly consider using paragon heroes.
skills that are usually uninspiring like Finale of Restoration, Chorus of Restoration, and Anthem of Fury become very good in this situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenebrae
re: GFTE I am not 100% sure that it works on spirit damage, I have seen higher numbers floating around but that may have been anthem of envy. that's only a minor side benefit anyway, it certainly works on the 3 paragons and 2 rangers that I usually bring in the group.
re: anthem of disruption, anthem of weariness... the spirits tend to attack who you are attacking, and so behave just as heroes do. this is not entirely bad though, if you are attacking a monk or ele boss you can imagine how repeated interrupts coming in from 5 physicals and spirits would be helpful.
i will repeat what has often been said before, paragons get stronger in groups, if you are running a paragon you should certainly consider using paragon heroes.
skills that are usually uninspiring like Finale of Restoration, Chorus of Restoration, and Anthem of Fury become very good in this situation.Quote:
Whatever you do , try not to use moti line , is damn weak in pve. Weariness and Envy with Fall Back to speed things up are good options. You as a Para can use SY and or TNTF so get advantage of that.
If your party is going to have 3+ non-casters , Blood necro or that D/N is a really good addition. some of it is weak, i agree. IMO the balance team over-nerfed motivation in the extreme, and most of that was done before the pve/pvp split, so a lot of the skills remain weak. But there are a few skills that are strong in groups with multiple shouters, they get stronger when more shouts are flying around.
chorus of restoration, finale of restoration, purifying finale, energizing finale, song of purification, the power is yours. consider how powerful these skills might be if there were shouts ending every second or two. this synergy is why all of it was nerfed in the first place.
Song of Restoration is the worst... an elite skill that basically does a Heal Party every 20-30 seconds. ZOMG. Except that a monk can do that every 2 seconds without an elite, and using a useful attribute line with 14+ in the attribute. you're never going to see that on a paragon. wtb skill balancers with clue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
If your party is going to have 3+ non-casters , Blood necro or that D/N is a really good addition. some of it is weak, i agree. IMO the balance team over-nerfed motivation in the extreme, and most of that was done before the pve/pvp split, so a lot of the skills remain weak. But there are a few skills that are strong in groups with multiple shouters, they get stronger when more shouts are flying around.
chorus of restoration, finale of restoration, purifying finale, energizing finale, song of purification, the power is yours. consider how powerful these skills might be if there were shouts ending every second or two. this synergy is why all of it was nerfed in the first place.
Song of Restoration is the worst... an elite skill that basically does a Heal Party every 20-30 seconds. ZOMG. Except that a monk can do that every 2 seconds without an elite, and using a useful attribute line with 14+ in the attribute. you're never going to see that on a paragon. wtb skill balancers with clue.
Because I am using these heroes on a Paragon character, it makes sense to me to get the shout synergies.
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my variant imbagon has two different ways to charge SY instantly and I can do it even while blind. I also charge SY instantly if I use a spear attack while Anthem of Fury is on me. With max kurzick rank and the above conditions I can't remember any time when SY has been down. Also, TNTF can't be kept up all the time. If you like it go ahead and use it though.
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2. I like to have one of the heroes have some form of heal capability, usually prefer 2 support ones so you only have to rely on one dedicated healer for hench. This build doesn't seem to have a healer role or even a support. You may have damage mitigation but you need some red bars up.
You get healing with the henchmen or a friend and his heroes, this set is purely offense with Imbagon defense thrown in. Notice that I do have one of the paragon variants set up for healing and condition removal, it works well if you want to bring only one healer henchman.Quote: Originally Posted by MasterSasori
3. Wouldn't it just be immensely easier to run the ER curse instead of Anthem of Fury? ER provides + damage, + adren, damage mitigation, and additional damage from barbs. It should also use weaken armor since heroes can't mop worth shit. The extra adren shouldn't be that vital for anything other than envy spam.
I tried the ER curses/orders, the DPS was about 30 points lower with that build as opposed to the Rt/N SoS/splinter/orders. Rt/N is clearly better imo. There's nothing preventing you from having both though... if a buddy can bring an ER curses/orders hero that is great, if he can run AP MoP caller that is even better.re: Anthem of Fury... I think it is underrated, especially for physical heavy teams. It is basically Dragon Slash for the whole party. Now if people rave about how great dragon slash is, how much better would that be if you can give everyone the adrenaline gain from dragon slash and free up their elite for something else? Hundred Blades, Wounding Strike, Stunning Strike are some examples. Compared to Dark Fury the advantage of Anthem of Fury is 4 adrenaline gain *now* instead of gaining that 4 adrenaline over 4 hits. Feel free to experiment with other elites though, I did most of my vanquishing with that character running Song of Purification, the condition removal is very useful.
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterSasori
4. I'm hesitant in wasting an elite to deal with blocking. Perhaps you could put another on the main hero instead of a variant?
Sure, you can change as you see fit... but let me ask you this... if most of your damage is coming from physicals, aren't unblockable attacks useful? Your damage output will be crippled as soon as someone uses guardian, aegis, whirling defense, etc. This build has a lot of unblockable and even if they manage to block an attack we have wild strike to remove stances and Splinter Weapon which still does splash damage even if it is blocked. Go fight some raptors with physicals and you'll see what I mean. Quote: Originally Posted by MasterSasori
5. I'm not seeing any condition removal option other than finale and even then its a cumulative removal, not an immediate one.
This build is only four characters, you bring one or two henchmen healers and some additional damage too. If you don't think the hench healers can deal with conditions adequately you can take the leadership/motivation hybrid paragon and take Song of Purification, Finale of Purification, or both. You could even put Cautery Signet on the other paragon instead of Anthem of Guidance but I think that's overkill.
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