It's time the anti farming and anti solo inquisition comes to an end. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

02 Mar 2010 at 23:33 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

{edit} OP. I may be wrong but I think the analogy you were drawing would be The Crusades. That whole "convert or die" mentality. I'm assuming that's the comparison... Not the actual process of murdering people. And I also think those that thought you were making the "murder" comparison aren't really that dumb. I think they're just being smart-asses. And I think we all know it. Sad, little bitter people... My favorite toys.

You're right about my comparison and we indeed know the others are just being smart-asses to derail or laugh it away because that's all they can say.

I might add that I got a few PM's from people that showed their support that way, rather than subject their posts to QQ accusers and flames.

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

02 Mar 2010 at 23:40 - 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kattar

Doesn't seem like ANet was trying to kill solo play or farming, just trying to take away the imba build everyone was using. Same thing they did with Ursan.

Honestly, outside of one build, is there anything else anyone was using to effectively solo farm?

I think that's not the point of the Opp. It is not about the latest SF nerf. It's about nerfing EVERY succesful farming build, since the first 55 monk build nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

.... If you want to play the game "as you like" with no intervention from developers and no input from the community playing it, well, online games are not for you. Get a single player game.

No, there's no rule that tells us that MMORPG's have to be nerfed for farming. We like to play these games. Even so much that we stay tuned even when we need to adjust our gameplay time after time after time. But the Opp is right. It's been enough. It should have been enough 4 years ago when diminishing returns was intruduced for re-entering the same areas. Because there is no reason at all to keep nerfing. The rich grow richer anyway. It only hurts causual gamers...

Quote:

Originally Posted by makafri

Build farms that actually works on todays game

- feather farm with solo monk on napui hm
- destroyer farms are easier now with ele
- vaettir farm are easier too
- the old good farms of 55 monk, necro, mesmer, etc
- the SoS spirit farm on almost everywhere (UW included)

I can continue... but of course you want a farm that gives you thousands of ectos... well that just confirm the point that SF and 600 were overpowered... you don't supposed to be able to farm tons of ectos at least not that fast

Again, its not about the SF nerf. Its about everything that happened the last 5 years. Nice to hear some builds still work. Fact is that the game has become centered around a relatively small group of elite players. Balancing is based on their input. Those who come back after 4 or 6 months of playing and find their only 1 successful build not working anylonger get disappointed and leave once more. And may be laughed at if they had the courage to post in the forum. THAT is the final result of listening to a small playerbase in charge... And it has to stop!

AlsPals

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

Sellin hot stock tips for pro[fit]

Me/E

02 Mar 2010 at 23:44 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

exactly, and you still can mostly--but everyone chose to farm with sf/600 instead because it was broken. thats why sf/600 was bad, and thats why sf/600 was nerfed. so whats your point?

False. Everyone chose to use SF/600 because the old spots were systematically nerfed. Riverside Giants, Ettins, Tengu...all nerfed at some point. SF and 600 rewards stayed constant throughout the life of them, only variance being prices falling, and meant far higher rates of return that Anet allowed for such builds as 55, Monolith farmer, ETC. All other farming methods would still be viable if Loot Scaling didnt exist.

Tramp

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mo/

03 Mar 2010 at 00:03 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

I think that's not the point of the Opp. It is not about the latest SF nerf. It's about nerfing EVERY succesful farming build, since the first 55 monk build nerf.

No, there's no rule that tells us that MMORPG's have to be nerfed for farming. We like to play these games. Even so much that we stay tuned even when we need to adjust our gameplay time after time after time. But the Opp is right. It's been enough. It should have been enough 4 years ago when diminishing returns was intruduced for re-entering the same areas. Because there is no reason at all to keep nerfing. The rich grow richer anyway. It only hurts causual gamers...

Again, its not about the SF nerf. Its about everything that happened the last 5 years. Nice to hear some builds still work. Fact is that the game has become centered around a relatively small group of elite players. Balancing is based on their input. Those who come back after 4 or 6 months of playing and find their only 1 successful build not working anylonger get disappointed and leave once more. And may be laughed at if they had the courage to post in the forum. THAT is the final result of listening to a small playerbase in charge... And it has to stop!

Exactly! The customers who paid good money to play this game get screwed over by an elitist bunch of idiots who dont know their head from their ass when it comes to changing skills. As evidenced by the screw up over one the warrior skills that apparently wasnt tested enough, please excuse my laughing, and that SF still dominates every team farming build. The people at corporate really have no flipping clue that every time they take the FUN out of a game by nerfing people's playing styles, it will hurt them in real money when a certain percentage will not buy GW2. 2 million players... piss off 5% and that just cost you 100,000 x $40 = 4 million. This game should accomodate everyone, farmers, solo players, duos, trios, groups, pugs, solo+h/h. But they seem to want to suck the relaxation and fun that a certain percentage of people get from repetitive farming out of the game. Well, hey, good luck to them. They failed with SF cuz it is still here and the build of choice for farming teams. But they got rid of a lot of monks, and more importantly to their company, they lost my future business. I do not want to pay money for a game they are going to clearly attack my playing style and form of entertainment. I am not going to be forced to be x/sin or sin/x to farm elite areas, and I not going to spirit spam for junk. I am not going to pug, not going to h/h, not going to do anything but sell off all my stuff and leave this sorry state of the Inquisition. If I cant play by myself as a monk then I am going to take my pixel toys and my real life money that would have gone for gw2 and /resign.

p.s. I am bitter...

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

03 Mar 2010 at 00:08 - 85

Quote:

This game should accomodate everyone, farmers, solo players, duos, trios, groups, pugs, solo+h/h.

Er... that would be impossible. Of course, you couldn't understand such things, since your sense of entitlement is bigger than your head.

iTzF3aR

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2009

Blackwood Knights [BWK] Graveyard guild, RIP Guild Wars.

A/

03 Mar 2010 at 00:21 - 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

Exactly! The customers who paid good money to play this game get screwed over by an elitist bunch of idiots who dont know their head from their ass when it comes to changing skills. As evidenced by the screw up over one the warrior skills that apparently wasnt tested enough, please excuse my laughing, and that SF still dominates every team farming build. The people at corporate really have no flipping clue that every time they take the FUN out of a game by nerfing people's playing styles, it will hurt them in real money when a certain percentage will not buy GW2. 2 million players... piss off 5% and that just cost you 100,000 x $40 = 4 million. This game should accomodate everyone, farmers, solo players, duos, trios, groups, pugs, solo+h/h. But they seem to want to suck the relaxation and fun that a certain percentage of people get from repetitive farming out of the game. Well, hey, good luck to them. They failed with SF cuz it is still here and the build of choice for farming teams. But they got rid of a lot of monks, and more importantly to their company, they lost my future business. I do not want to pay money for a game they are going to clearly attack my playing style and form of entertainment. I am not going to be forced to be x/sin or sin/x to farm elite areas, and I not going to spirit spam for junk. I am not going to pug, not going to h/h, not going to do anything but sell off all my stuff and leave this sorry state of the Inquisition. If I cant play by myself as a monk then I am going to take my pixel toys and my real life money that would have gone for gw2 and /resign.

p.s. I am bitter...

All I see from this (and from the majority of posters in this thread) is nothing but BAWWWWWW. Take away team farming builds and all of a sudden people feel as if they are being attacked. The reason why 600/smite got fixed is because like SF, people started taking the means from solo farming (can't even fully claim it was a solo farm) and making transforming it in a way to where like SF, it would be able to clear X elite area in Y time. The prime example of this is MQSC and DTSC; both are well known for their quick time/faction ratio for the Luxon/Kurzick title track. Of course, due to obvious game mechanics monks alone (compared to the classic UWSC) would probably never have been able to complete UW <15 minutes. I am happy enough to see that the TK were not idiotic (or turned a blindeye) and saw how 600/smite could have been the next "SF". The Test Krewe is not your enemy, they aren't some "e-bully", or group of elitist bunch of idiots as you claim them to be. Having said that, they try to make the game best for everyone and unfortunately from a rusty start, we have hardly yet to see that. It is IMPOSSIBLE to fufill all players needs as seeing the userbase is just to large. Players like you (ignorant, self-serving biased) need to learn at least a fair balance for some form of this game. If you are going to quit over one simple fix to a skill then you really should take your business else where, good sir.

Deakon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

Arkansas

Just The Four Of Us [TRIO]

Mo/E

03 Mar 2010 at 00:31 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Er... that would be impossible. Of course, you couldn't understand such things, since your sense of entitlement is bigger than your head.

And it degrades now into personal attacks. Woe is me! Woe is me! The end is near. The Apocalypse is upon us! lol

Is this the biggest split of the GW community? I wasn't around the first 2 years.

I went town hopping after the update to see what people were saying. The number of people upset was blatantly overwhelming of those in support of the changes. Whether they quit or not... whether they are crappy players or not... doesn't matter. What matters is that Anet upset a huge portion of it's customer base. There's going to be blow back and it's going to hurt them financially. I really can't understand what they were thinking from a business perspective.

I still think it might have been intentional. Less players = lower server loads = lower operating costs.

I have this mental image of the staff stacked 2 to a cubicle, half of the florescent bulbs taken out to save electricity, printing on the back of paper already printed on one side, going from staples to paper clips because they're reusable... lol A one-armed man stole my tin foil hat.

4thVariety

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

European Union

ADL

E/

03 Mar 2010 at 00:37 - 88

At its core the whole argument has always been about jealousy. That is the trigger, somebody is getting more money than people think is adequate.

After that the inquisition picks a target skill. This is a process of social manipulation in the forums, a process of peer pressuring and a process of being the one shouting the loudest for the longest period of time. A process adapted from political talk show hosts and TV stations.

ArenaNet then sacrifices at the altar of balance, while people break into cheers. Because they scored a victory in the "Forum Game" of making other people do what they arbitrarily decided was best.

Was Shadow Form ever the problem? No, because the speed boost in UW is not from Shadow Form, it comes from people splitting up. This know-how cannot be removed. It is not the skill Shadow Form empowering speedclearers, it is the ideas behind the approach empowering them.

Was Ursan ever the problem? No, because with an Imbagon in the back pretty much any team can do what Ursan did, the best proof being DoA Heroway clocking in at around the same time Ursan did.

So yes, the inquisition has to stop. But volatile differences in income also have to be addressed somehow.

iTzF3aR

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2009

Blackwood Knights [BWK] Graveyard guild, RIP Guild Wars.

A/

03 Mar 2010 at 00:49 - 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thVariety

At its core the whole argument has always been about jealousy. That is the trigger, somebody is getting more money than people think is adequate.

After that the inquisition picks a target skill. This is a process of social manipulation in the forums, a process of peer pressuring and a process of being the one shouting the loudest for the longest period of time. A process adapted from political talk show hosts and TV stations.

ArenaNet then sacrifices at the altar of balance, while people break into cheers. Because they scored a victory in the "Forum Game" of making other people do what they arbitrarily decided was best.

Was Shadow Form ever the problem? No, because the speed boost in UW is not from Shadow Form, it comes from people splitting up. This know-how cannot be removed. It is not the skill Shadow Form empowering speedclearers, it is the ideas behind the approach empowering them.

Was Ursan ever the problem? No, because with an Imbagon in the back pretty much any team can do what Ursan did, the best proof being DoA Heroway clocking in at around the same time Ursan did.

So yes, the inquisition has to stop. But volatile differences in income also have to be addressed somehow.

By inquisition I take it you mean ArenaNet; no. That is completely wrong. If anything it was the exact opposite way around. The people who started complaining about Shadow Form saw how it could easily exploit the whole game of Guild Wars with its almost invincible abilities to making farming/running/areas easy. Also there is a huge difference scale between a small gamy producing company to multi-media companies and political figures. A BIG DIFFERENCE.

This "split-off" you talk about is completely wrong. If you know how SF worked you would see how that splitting off would work as to having a different profession trying to split off to complete X quest.

Do you know also know how Ursan worked as well ? Both classes, Ursan and Imbagon are practically impossible to compare besides their surplus in AR. Can imbagons spam armor ignoring damage one that which does 150 damage, and around 100 aoe damage. Understand how armor works how drastically overpowered Ursan was (or in most cases, still is.)

Once again, this is not some inquisition, this is ArenaNet/TK getting smart and getting the game back on the right track.

akio pwns

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

ny

[KISS]

D/

03 Mar 2010 at 00:52 - 90

so wait the op says no QQ/flaming but yet is making this read for what reason other then his ego?

threads like this serve no real reason. If you would know it you wouldnt start this topic, because well who are you to tell "the crowd" what to think? Are you part of the hegemony? No. Lets keep it that way.

BB

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

03 Mar 2010 at 01:02 - 91

Quote:

Originally Posted by akio pwns

so wait the op says no QQ/flaming but yet is making this read for what reason other then his ego?
BB

If you figure that out you'll get a cookie. It requires thinking beyond your own ego though.

It's not the messenger of this topic that's important here, but the message itself.

4thVariety

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

European Union

ADL

E/

03 Mar 2010 at 01:17 - 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTzF3aR

...

Inquisition is not referring to ArenaNet but a forum phenomenon by which people rejecting some of the current PvE developments refuse to join the trend and rather use posts to have that trend removed from the game. It is a method by which players do not try to restore their fun by posting a proposal, but aim at destroying the fun of others by having a skill removed from the game. As such, this whole phenomenon is bad for the game as it bleeds customers from the game in any scenario.

No build can do the UW in seven minutes alone or with eight players all in one place at all times. The reason why UW suddenly got so fast was because people were working towards completing UW in totally different directions at the same time. One specialized farmer was doing Pits, another one was doing Mount and so on: that is what broke the old speed limit on UW and FoW. While Shadow Form was the dominant build, there are other builds perfectly capable of doing different corners of UW. This idea cannot be taken from the heads of the players, which is why SF might be gone, but the general approach remains the same.

DoA Ursan also benefited from a damage boost inherent in the Lightbringer title. But so do all classes in UW. Baseline Ursan strike is 150 Damage every 4 Seconds, which is not that much. But it makes for a nasty spike, especially since Ursan teams always knew in which order to take down the enemies. A skill many random Melee-Ways lack these days. Compared to the damage a Crit-Scythe Sin can dish out, Ursan is a tame build. The reason why Crit-Scythe is not as dominant as Ursan right now, is because UW splits are still faster and Tank&Spank-DoA is still faster. But put some proper defense behind Crit-Scythe and you have a monster, if those faster methods vanish. But why would they, the secret of fast DoA runs was more in HOW you approached tanking, not which skill made it possible.

Orry

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

03 Mar 2010 at 01:42 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thVariety

Inquisition is not referring to ArenaNet but a forum phenomenon by which people rejecting some of the current PvE developments refuse to join the trend and rather use posts to have that trend removed from the game. It is a method by which players do not try to restore their fun by posting a proposal, but aim at destroying the fun of others by having a skill removed from the game. As such, this whole phenomenon is bad for the game as it bleeds customers from the game in any scenario.

No build can do the UW in seven minutes alone or with eight players all in one place at all times. The reason why UW suddenly got so fast was because people were working towards completing UW in totally different directions at the same time. One specialized farmer was doing Pits, another one was doing Mount and so on: that is what broke the old speed limit on UW and FoW. While Shadow Form was the dominant build, there are other builds perfectly capable of doing different corners of UW. This idea cannot be taken from the heads of the players, which is why SF might be gone, but the general approach remains the same.

DoA Ursan also benefited from a damage boost inherent in the Lightbringer title. But so do all classes in UW. Baseline Ursan strike is 150 Damage every 4 Seconds, which is not that much. But it makes for a nasty spike, especially since Ursan teams always knew in which order to take down the enemies. A skill many random Melee-Ways lack these days. Compared to the damage a Crit-Scythe Sin can dish out, Ursan is a tame build. The reason why Crit-Scythe is not as dominant as Ursan right now, is because UW splits are still faster and Tank&Spank-DoA is still faster. But put some proper defense behind Crit-Scythe and you have a monster, if those faster methods vanish. But why would they, the secret of fast DoA runs was more in HOW you approached tanking, not which skill made it possible.

Ursan wasn't powerful because of the damage, or the armour, it was the blanket knockdown from Ursan Rage and the weakness from Ursan Roar. Good try though.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

03 Mar 2010 at 01:53 - 94

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

Ursan wasn't powerful because of the damage, or the armour, it was the blanket knockdown from Ursan Rage and the weakness from Ursan Roar. Good try though.

The knockdown only affects the ease of the run, not the speed. As long as someone find a way to tank a mob + a way to get massive AoE damage, DoA can still be cleared just as fast. Anet cannot "nerf" this unless they take away tanking and AoE damage.

This is the main point he is trying to get across. Its the METHOD and game design that enables the speed clears. Anet nerf one tanking skills and one AoE damage skill, everyone just moves on to the next best. Meanwhile, normal pug players get screwed with losing one skill after another.

They want to get rid of speed clear? Make it so that people can't "split" in UW and change the AI / mob damage so that tanking would not be required in DoA.

AlsPals

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

Sellin hot stock tips for pro[fit]

Me/E

03 Mar 2010 at 02:05 - 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

The knockdown only affects the ease of the run, not the speed. As long as someone find a way to tank a mob + a way to get massive AoE damage, DoA can still be cleared just as fast. Anet cannot "nerf" this unless they take away tanking and AoE damage.

This is the main point he is trying to get across. Its the METHOD and game design that enables the speed clears. Anet nerf one tanking skills and one AoE damage skill, everyone just moves on to the next best. Meanwhile, normal pug players get screwed with losing one skill after another.

They want to get rid of speed clear? Make it so that people can't "split" in UW and change the AI / mob damage so that tanking would not be required in DoA.

Not gonna disagree, the AI allows for the shenanigans everyone gets away with. 2 things though: UW can be redone to function like Slavers, so you dont have to do everything in one long session. Secondly, the Knocklocks made Ursan as notorious as it was. Without it, it could do the job, but lets face it, BB and Steelfang was horrible for the same reason. AOE knocklocks? Steamroll PVE more?

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

03 Mar 2010 at 02:11 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by alspals

False. Everyone chose to use SF/600 because the old spots were systematically nerfed. Riverside Giants, Ettins, Tengu...all nerfed at some point. SF and 600 rewards stayed constant throughout the life of them, only variance being prices falling, and meant far higher rates of return that Anet allowed for such builds as 55, Monolith farmer, ETC. All other farming methods would still be viable if Loot Scaling didnt exist.

yes, certain farms were nerfed over the years. however i don't think there has ever been a period in gw where there was a 'farming drought' where not even a single decent farm was available. and that was my point, alternatives always exist even if they aren't as effective. the farmer's mentality is that they will usually cling to the farm that generally yields the greatest profit/efficiency--in this case, sf/600 was head and shoulder above the rest. numerous amount of ecto farming builds still exist.

imo, "full underworld clear" and "farm" and/or "solo" should never be used in the same sentence.

i'm pretty sure that the "end chests" in uw and also in eotn dungeons we're implemented to provide incentive to gather a full team and complete the dungeon. not for farmers to transition from "farming spots" to "speed clears".

AlsPals

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

Sellin hot stock tips for pro[fit]

Me/E

03 Mar 2010 at 02:48 - 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

yes, certain farms were nerfed over the years. however i don't think there has ever been a period in gw where there was a 'farming drought' where not even a single decent farm was available. and that was my point, alternatives always exist even if they aren't as effective. the farmer's mentality is that they will usually cling to the farm that generally yields the greatest profit/efficiency--in this case, sf/600 was head and shoulder above the rest. numerous amount of ecto farming builds still exist.

imo, "full underworld clear" and "farm" and/or "solo" should never be used in the same sentence.

i'm pretty sure that the "end chests" in uw and also in eotn dungeons we're implemented to provide incentive to gather a full team and complete the dungeon. not for farmers to transition from "farming spots" to "speed clears".

Oh, definately not. There was always someway to effectively farm, but Anet was fairly swift, even about ones we didn't think they cared about(vermin and such.) The problem is, even for speed clears and such, whether or not the people are actually thinking they are farming, they are taking in rarities at rates lots of farmers dream of. Therefore, more people went to such methods but with different goals in mind. I still say if we dumped Loot Scaling and went back to Anti-Farm code, the methods of obtaining loot for a variety of different reasons will be consistently more rewarding.

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

03 Mar 2010 at 02:52 - 98

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

This game should accomodate everyone, farmers, solo players, duos, trios, groups, pugs, solo+h/h.

As has been said, it is impossible to accommodate everyone all the time. The fact is, there has not been and wont be significant new content (unless I get a real shock) so one of the few ways left to try and keep the game "fresh" (yes I know - but go with me here) is to change the skills so people get a new challenge.

I personally believe that the fact anet annouced well in advance how they were going to nerf SF with a small mention to 600/smite created expectations.
Then when the update came out, it was seen that SF was barely wounded (and indeed, improved for none Sins), 600/smite was hurt significantly and OF was smite booned - seemed opposite of the expectations created - hence the outbreak of QQing.
I think many more people used 600/smite to play the game themselves quietly for fun and werent really a part of the Nerf perma SF threads. I thought they would probably just reduce the damage on holy wrath so it was still useable in many areas, just slower but maybe thats why I am not on the TK

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

03 Mar 2010 at 03:21 - 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycan Nibbler

... OF was smite booned )..

if by smiter's booned you mean buffed.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

03 Mar 2010 at 03:31 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

Exactly! The customers who paid good money to play this game get screwed over by an elitist bunch of idiots who dont know their head from their ass when it comes to changing skills. As evidenced by the screw up over one the warrior skills that apparently wasnt tested enough, please excuse my laughing, and that SF still dominates every team farming build. The people at corporate really have no flipping clue that every time they take the FUN out of a game by nerfing people's playing styles, it will hurt them in real money when a certain percentage will not buy GW2. 2 million players... piss off 5% and that just cost you 100,000 x $40 = 4 million. This game should accomodate everyone, farmers, solo players, duos, trios, groups, pugs, solo+h/h. But they seem to want to suck the relaxation and fun that a certain percentage of people get from repetitive farming out of the game. Well, hey, good luck to them. They failed with SF cuz it is still here and the build of choice for farming teams. But they got rid of a lot of monks, and more importantly to their company, they lost my future business. I do not want to pay money for a game they are going to clearly attack my playing style and form of entertainment. I am not going to be forced to be x/sin or sin/x to farm elite areas, and I not going to spirit spam for junk. I am not going to pug, not going to h/h, not going to do anything but sell off all my stuff and leave this sorry state of the Inquisition. If I cant play by myself as a monk then I am going to take my pixel toys and my real life money that would have gone for gw2 and /resign.

p.s. I am bitter...

Exactly how I feel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Er... that would be impossible. Of course, you couldn't understand such things, since your sense of entitlement is bigger than your head.

It is not impossible. DDO allows all kinds of playstyle to exist with something called 'Difficulty Levels'. You can solo quite a lot of that game and get great loot on lower difficulty if you want to, but they promote group play by offering better rewards on higher difficulties which require you to be in a group.

Balancing both solo and multiplay is hardly difficult and entirely possible, if the game isnt being ran by a team of monkeys that is.

w00t!

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sorrow's Furnace Hot Tub

RoS

Mo/Me

03 Mar 2010 at 04:34 - 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urass

I just love the purist game Nazis... "Ya vot, you vill play my vay or you vill be nerfed"

Godwin's Law!

Tramp

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mo/

03 Mar 2010 at 06:30 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTzF3aR

The Test Krewe is not your enemy, they aren't some "e-bully", or group of elitist bunch of idiots as you claim them to be. Having said that, they try to make the game best for everyone and unfortunately from a rusty start, we have hardly yet to see that. ..... Players like you (ignorant, ......)

Ignorance is arguing against your own observations with wishful thinking as opposed to the actual evidence. You praise the Test Krewe as some wonderful bunch of people helping the game. Then in the next sentence you admit you have not seen it yet. When you use emotions to project you seem to be blind to the actual evidence you see. Stick to the facts, and not emotions, and the fact is the Test Krewe are failures and will cost Anet real life money. The people at Anet who listen to the recommendations of these fools are going to cost their employer money, even if it is just mine.

Lycan Nibbler put it correctly when he posted above that the expection was that SF would be nerfed and 600 moderately slowed down. Instead, SF was barely touched, is still 100% used as effectively in speedclearing with slight changes, and on the other hand, 600 got killed and lost 75% of its effectiveness. For the solo farmer who liked to have casual, productive use of their limited gaming time, 600 was a good option. That option was decimated while the "abusive" SF was left to rape and pillage once more.

The people who get hurt are the recreational farmers like me, recreational groups who liked to duo and trio, and the newbies who need runs through dungeons and cant get them anymore. The pro farmers just will shift over to SF and Obby Flesh and keep raping the game apparently. What a brilliant set of nerfs from Test Krewe and such a great business decision from the Wizards of Smart at Anet who listened to them.

Damn Rock Gin

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

03 Mar 2010 at 08:25 - 103

The butchering of the 600 Smite build has pretty much not only slowed the build itself, but my remaining time playing GW. I used 600 smite for Vanquishing, which I was hoping I would be able to finish. I have done everything else in the game, all expansions, played all classes, etc...
Most of my characters needed their EOTN ranks, which now is no longer worth the effort, they pretty much killed dungeon runs. I certainly won't be doing the dungeons over and over again just to try and max a title. I really enjoyed dungeon runs and the nice people that I have met while being run.
It's like they just slammed the door shut on us.

chessyang

Not far from Elite

Join Date: Apr 2006

Florida

W/

03 Mar 2010 at 14:48 - 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Well, in the interview @ PAX, when questioned about Shadow Form, Linsey Murdock states that they've been lingering on these nerfs because they were afraid of the reaction of farmers. She cites the precedent of Ursan: even if it's still playable and powerful, people don't want to use it anymore, since it's "nerfed".

oh good to know! have to check the PAX news. thanks for reminding me of this event.

and to the OP. game is still fun to me. i'm finding new ways to solo stuff. YES it's a bit slower and not making cash as fast but still having fun

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

03 Mar 2010 at 15:13 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

Ignorance is arguing against your own observations with wishful thinking as opposed to the actual evidence. You praise the Test Krewe as some wonderful bunch of people helping the game. Then in the next sentence you admit you have not seen it yet. When you use emotions to project you seem to be blind to the actual evidence you see. Stick to the facts, and not emotions, and the fact is the Test Krewe are failures and will cost Anet real life money. The people at Anet who listen to the recommendations of these fools are going to cost their employer money, even if it is just mine.

Lycan Nibbler put it correctly when he posted above that the expection was that SF would be nerfed and 600 moderately slowed down. Instead, SF was barely touched, is still 100% used as effectively in speedclearing with slight changes, and on the other hand, 600 got killed and lost 75% of its effectiveness. For the solo farmer who liked to have casual, productive use of their limited gaming time, 600 was a good option. That option was decimated while the "abusive" SF was left to rape and pillage once more.

The people who get hurt are the recreational farmers like me, recreational groups who liked to duo and trio, and the newbies who need runs through dungeons and cant get them anymore. The pro farmers just will shift over to SF and Obby Flesh and keep raping the game apparently. What a brilliant set of nerfs from Test Krewe and such a great business decision from the Wizards of Smart at Anet who listened to them.

You say all this as if Anet uses the test krewe as anything else other than a pariah for their screwups. also, i don't see how people farming is raping the game. Let people do as they please, it's just a game. Stop acting like what you want is the only thing that's right and whine on the internet like a whiny little shit just because you don't like something. if you want to keep finding things to whine about gw, maybe you should just quit.

Shadow Feathers

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

03 Mar 2010 at 15:18 - 106

This thread hasn't been moved to the Campfire forum with the other QQ threads about farming / recent update, ect. ? Just how many ways can you all whine and complain about things ? I mean really.

Xsiriss

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

03 Mar 2010 at 15:28 - 107

I'll say it again,we need rewarding gameplay. Not areas of the game specifically designed away from it and skill balances directed away from it. The gameplay itself must be rewarding.GW always hasn't been that rewarding hence the birth of farming and the overkill it's gone to.

qvtkc

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

03 Mar 2010 at 15:40 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

I want prot bond back then.

"The energy loss can be divided among characters if multiple copies of protective bond are cast. For example, if two characters cast this spell at level 13 Protection Prayers, the first character to cast would lose two energy and the second would lose one energy every hit. "

Enjoy

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

03 Mar 2010 at 15:50 - 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessyang

oh good to know! have to check the PAX news. thanks for reminding me of this event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ScVRiFm3A

"Shadow Form is allowing people to get in [...] It makes me nervous about nerfing it. We've let it go for a while because of that, altough it's becoming even more abused"

And then she mentions the "bigger project"... which I guess was the implementation of Dhuum in the UW. Well, "not necessarily easier but more conducive to group play rather than solo play" is not really what we've seen implemented, but, well...

So, again, blame abusers not playing anything else and making a tool for solo farming into an "abuse". It's this, the generalized abuse, that brought to the nerf in the end, not really "elitists"..

Orry

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

03 Mar 2010 at 17:00 - 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Exactly how I feel.

It is not impossible. DDO allows all kinds of playstyle to exist with something called 'Difficulty Levels'. You can solo quite a lot of that game and get great loot on lower difficulty if you want to, but they promote group play by offering better rewards on higher difficulties which require you to be in a group.

Balancing both solo and multiplay is hardly difficult and entirely possible, if the game isnt being ran by a team of monkeys that is.

Last I checked you couldn't really farm per se in DDO, the only way to make money faster is speed clear, and they have attempted to nerf it.

Tramp

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mo/

03 Mar 2010 at 17:16 - 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

You say all this as if Anet uses the test krewe as anything else other than a pariah for their screwups. also, i don't see how people farming is raping the game. Let people do as they please, it's just a game.

No need for the haterade, you an I are in 100% agreement. Farming is not raping the game, but Anet apparently thinks it is. I also believe people should be able to play whatever style they want. I NEVER used SF and I was 100% totally opposed to an SF nerf because if other people want to use it, it does not affect me at all. This is just a game, and is supposed to be about fun. Nerfs do nothing but suck the fun out of the game. They sucked the fun out of monks and left the so called bad boys "raping" the game to keep on going. They are not using Test Krewe as a pariah because they will never admit they are a bunch of screw ups. You an I are 100% in agreement. The game should be fun and people should be able to play as they please. 600 was great for farming, dungeons that are worthless vs. the time needed to complete, socializing while playing since people can stand around and chat, vanquishing, etc. They swung the nerf bat at the juicy pinata they were aiming for (again... wrong in my opinion), missed and hit the tree instead, then seem to be patting themselves on the back for a job well done???? No, in my opinion, they are idiots and I am voting with my feet and my pocketbook with gw2. Battlefield 3 will be coming out about the same time as gw2, my character will be called Anet Can Kiss My Brass.

Orry

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

03 Mar 2010 at 17:31 - 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

No need for the haterade, you an I are in 100% agreement. Farming is not raping the game, but Anet apparently thinks it is. I also believe people should be able to play whatever style they want. I NEVER used SF and I was 100% totally opposed to an SF nerf because if other people want to use it, it does not affect me at all. This is just a game, and is supposed to be about fun. Nerfs do nothing but suck the fun out of the game. They sucked the fun out of monks and left the so called bad boys "raping" the game to keep on going. They are not using Test Krewe as a pariah because they will never admit they are a bunch of screw ups. You an I are 100% in agreement. The game should be fun and people should be able to play as they please. 600 was great for farming, dungeons that are worthless vs. the time needed to complete, socializing while playing since people can stand around and chat, vanquishing, etc. They swung the nerf bat at the juicy pinata they were aiming for (again... wrong in my opinion), missed and hit the tree instead, then seem to be patting themselves on the back for a job well done???? No, in my opinion, they are idiots and I am voting with my feet and my pocketbook with gw2. Battlefield 3 will be coming out about the same time as gw2, my character will be called Anet Can Kiss My Brass.

ANet has absolutely no problem with farming, they have problems with gimmicky speed clears. Again Speed Clear != Farming

The reward for farming is more drops quicker, and the reward for clearing is unique drops you can't get elsewhere. Once players can speed clear an area to get the end reward an excessive ammount more quickly than other methods it DOES affect other players because they are either forced into a play-style they don't like, or they can't get the reward.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

03 Mar 2010 at 18:08 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

it DOES affect other players because they are either forced into a play-style they don't like, or they can't get the reward.

Or it can take so much for them to get such a reward that it's become worthless in the meanwhile. Hello Elemental Sword.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

03 Mar 2010 at 18:09 - 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

No need for the haterade, you an I are in 100% agreement.

not exactly. i feel that nerfs or not, it's no big deal. just adapt. the majority of whiners on this forum simply lack the imagination to find something else.

Orry

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

03 Mar 2010 at 18:14 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Or it can take so much for them to get such a reward that it's become worthless in the meanwhile. Hello Elemental Sword.

At which point it is no longer a reward.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

03 Mar 2010 at 18:31 - 116

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

At which point it is no longer a reward.

Yup.

So why should I choose between hurrying and farming like there's no tomorrow, or having my reward becoming worthless?

Hi-end items are there to reward EVERYONE, not just those who have got the time and the means to farm like hell and get them sooner.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

03 Mar 2010 at 19:38 - 117

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Yup.

So why should I choose between hurrying and farming like there's no tomorrow, or having my reward becoming worthless?

Hi-end items are there to reward EVERYONE, not just those who have got the time and the means to farm like hell and get them sooner.

There are just not enough hi end items (e.g. BDS) to reward everyone without the farmers because drop rates are so low that the non farmer player would never have a chance of getting a BDS. It becomes a problem when people who don't farm feel entitled to get said items to the point they can't stand farmers or hate them because they think the game should be played 'my way'. The irony is that farmers bring those items into the market and lower the price, which is a good thing as it brings those items in reach of the non farmer.

This is what Anet said about that: 'Advanced farmers are always going to earn more money than their more casual counterparts. There's nothing wrong with that. When farmers earn their money by finding valuable items and selling them to other players, they're making the game more enjoyable for everyone. They're facilitating trade'

I did around 100 runs to farm a BDS and it didn't drop yet. Do you have any idea how much a BDS would be worth without the farmers?

Oh btw, I watched that pax interview at the time, the thing you should worry about is why nerfing makes Linsey nervous. 4thvariety worded it excellent on the previous page, it's a neverending downcycle of a loss of players which is bad for an mmo.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

03 Mar 2010 at 19:51 - 118

If you leave the game degenerate, you will lose players.

If you nerf popular farms, you will lose players.

I think Gun has made a good case recently for producing better data that tells ANet which course of action sheds fewer players. However, this does not constitute a proof that an anti-farming stance is inappropriate.

The whole point of the anti-farming stance was to fight bots. But ANet conceded that fight long ago. The question on the table is whether or not imba garbage like SF helps ANet sell more copies of GW2. I doubt that, but I'd be willing to listen to quality marketing data that says the reverse.

Orry

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

03 Mar 2010 at 20:02 - 119

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

There are just not enough hi end items (e.g. BDS) to reward everyone without the farmers because drop rates are so low that the non farmer player would never have a chance of getting a BDS. It becomes a problem when people who don't farm feel entitled to get said items to the point they can't stand farmers or hate them because they think the game should be played 'my way'. The irony is that farmers bring those items into the market and lower the price, which is a good thing as it bring those items in reach of the non farmer.

This is what Anet said about that: 'Advanced farmers are always going to earn more money than their more casual counterparts. There's nothing wrong with that. When farmers earn their money by finding valuable items and selling them to other players, they're making the game more enjoyable for everyone. They're facilitating trade'

I did around 100 runs to farm a BDS and it didn't drop yet. Do you have any idea how much a BDS would be worth without the farmers?

Oh btw, I watched that pax interview at the time, the thing you should worry about is why nerfing makes Linsey nervous. 4thvariety worded it excellent on the previous page, it's a neverending downcycle of a loss of players which is bad for an mmo.

The BDS would be a reasonable price without farmers actually, because nobody would be running around with stacks of ectos. It's inflation, only the farmers can afford what the other farmers are selling. That being said there would be far fewer BDS's for sale, but people wouldn't be able to ask as much because people wouldn't HAVE as much. Disparity is worse for the economy than anything else.

chessyang

Not far from Elite

Join Date: Apr 2006

Florida

W/

03 Mar 2010 at 21:03 - 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ScVRiFm3A.

Doh at work! can't hear it but thanks for posting the link!!!

after loading it up on the iphone it's good to know they do read the boards and who does what. also good to know real people with real lives work on this great game!