What does playing GW "normally" mean? And why?

It's a dirty job but someone has to do it...

Nice troll post, Meh farming is needed at some point, anything maxing titles is in a way farming, weather for exp, items, or title points its all farming.

Default armor like obby and chaos gloves dyed black with a bindfold isnt un-normal, everyone has one, therfore it is normal.

IF ITS PARTOF THE GAME, then its meant to be done, its just that superfarms like SF were "unnatural" seeing as it wasnt the true intention of the addition of that skill.

BUT the thing is people did it and made it a norm.

*Takes a big deep breath and exhales* you smell that? thats the crisp fresh smell of perma-free guildwars.

People who agree can agree, people who hate me for it, sit on wiki until some build pops up so you can continue on with your guildwars playing, OR BETTER YET! Make one yourself!

Well, it was asked by what people mean by "normal" and for the most part when people say "play the game normally" they mean naturally, or in the intended way. Just we were trying to define what that was, as opposed to giving the definition.

Overall, "playing normally" is going to be an incredibly varied response. But there seems to be a group in consensus that "playing normally" means "playing the intended route". Some may also consider that to be in the same league as what an inexperienced and casual player would do: simply play through the game, joining up with anyone they can.

Now, playing normally is very different compared to something that is what I consider "becoming the norm" (i.e. SF, Ursan, popular gimmicks, etc.), and it can indeed be very different from what the developer intends. This might be why ANet is moderating farming a bit more: they may not what players to expect the same from GW2 (I certainly wouldn't want to expect the same).

^so then a better question to ask would be, who should be the one to define what "normal" is: the developers or the players?

i would like to say the developers--but anet is doing a pretty crap job at "moderating" it.

Like I said earlier (or have I? I can't find the post...maybe I'm just crazy) it's up to the developers to set the path and the players to guide it.

In this case, while both parties can take credit for an exceedingly large amount of bad ideas, I've seen more faults from ANet's part.

"Normal play" typically refers to playing an area simply to complete it, rather than playing for money or fast times.

Farming and speed clears in themselves are not a problem. However, there is a point at which these cross into something else: making PvE trivial. When you have certain professions or builds that are so much better than everything else that there's no reason to play anything else, then there is a problem.

I often like to use the 55 monk as an example of what true farming is. It can easily make money in certain areas, but it cannot be used to clear the majority of PvE without breaking a sweat. Hence, 55 does not defeat the purpose of general play builds.

The old SF was not a farming build, because it did not suffer from such limitations. There were very few areas that it could not utterly destroy while laughing maniacally. It was a build that simply raped PvE. There was, really, no reason to use anything else most of the time. So, players had to choose between using SF or sucking, which is not fun.

Farming and the like are not a problem; they are perfectly acceptable forms of gameplay that bring some people joy without destroying fun for people who don't do them. Builds that anally violate PvE with foreign objects are a different story, because they make all of PvE trivial and destroy the purpose of general builds.

Personally, I would not have a problem with farming at all if it didnt negatively affect those of us non-farmers. Therefore, the only real problem i see with farming is that it drastically skews the economy in favor of the farmes. Think about how much money a farmer has, and then think about how much money someone who spends just as much time in the game but who does Zmission, vanquishes, campaign-playing-throughs, dungeons, etc. The difference is pretty astronomical. I dont think that any one style of gameplay should be more rewarding than any other style. In other words, Im fine with someone farming if that is really what they enjoy, but I think that both the standard style of gameplay and the farming style of gameplay should be rewarded equally.

Therefore, get Anet to increase drop rate for groups, implement pugging bonuses, put more new items into Z quest rewards, improve party search, reduce frustrating end game design (300 damage monsters that requires a tank), buff underpowered classes.....etc. etc.

To a lot of casuals that I know in the game, "overpowered" farming is seen as "adequate" while normal play is seen as "ridiculously limiting", "discouraging", "grindy", "unrewarding", "frustrating", etc.

You can't get filthy rich from farming. This is a common misconception. There's no question that farming is a more efficient method of amassing in-game wealth than playing in the casual manner "intended" by the developers. But no matter how hard or how fast you run on the farming treadmill, you will get annihilated by players using more efficient means to make in-game cash than grinding it out at 20-50k/hour.

Increasing the returns from casual play won't make casual players much better off at the end of the day. That would just increase the amount of wealth in the system, which would in turn increase the price of the services and goods that you want to buy. It will improve casual players' position relative to the farmers, but all that will happen is both will be equally poor. Regular posters in the High End and Services sections of Ventari would be the big winners.

Scarce, desirable items with fixed drop locations (or worse, fixed supply) lead to degenerate play. The most efficient players win that resource competition, and efficient play is never casual.

If it truly were the case that casual play were the most efficient means of getting what you want, you'd be cursing the tiny drop rates and your total lack of control over your own fate. Great example: the sharp decrease in players farming the miniature Polar Bear this year. Once it became apparent that the drop rate was atrocious, many people just quit trying.

Your post is big, and says alot of shit. But lets face it. If I got a VS on my 90th try rather then my 600th try, I wouldn't need to be super rich, because I wouldn't need to buy it. If I got a BDS on my 90th try rather then my 600th try, I wouldn't need to be a super rich farmer, because I wouldn't need to buy it. If I got 4 gems for wasting 2 hours of my life instead of 2 gems, I would be that much closer to my goal, and I wouldn't need to be a super rich farmer, because I wouldn't need to buy it.

The point is that casual players can support themselves and the super rich farmer boys can sell their pixels to each other while each 'casual' and 'non-hardcore' player can earn the reward themselves without spending an ultra massive amount of time on it because Arena Net nerfed drops rather then overpowered godmode builds.

Thought everyone loved a bit of Anarchy.

Okay.
You mean like free brains? Pugging is dead, it commited a suicide years ago.
What items? Consumables?
Meh, still for PuGs.
Not sure how you can reduce design... But for 300 damage monsters just use Protective Spirit and kill monsters faster than they kill you. Without wasting a spot on a tank.

Any new equipment will do. Hell, they can get some kids to draw a cartoon sword and put it in and it'll still be good for the collector/shock value.

One of the prevalent argument against gimmick was that "it ruins normal pugging", so what else should I talk about >.> Guilds are inadequate simply due to how few good ones there are. Not to mention, you can't get more good guilds unless people actually pug in the first place. Where else did the present guild actually got their "good" players? I would have a hard time believing that guilds just randomly recruit from town/forum and then spend extra effort kicking the bad players.

What if the monk missed the prot spirit? What if the prot spirited "tank" decided to lag and messed up the aggro. Also, all DoTAoE becomes a liability when you NEED to keep super high damage monsters on a tank or a prot spirited "tank"....totally not casual friendly.

If they want to make the mob challenging give them smarter builds or make bigger mobs with lower damage that simulate PvP "pressuring".

Example: Cooperation point - for every mission completed, each player can give all of the other players a Co-Op point for each hour spent on that map, you cannot receive more than 1 point from the same player each week/month. For every 100 point, a player can trade it in for items or money.

See? Maybe a bit unrealistic for GW1 but some creative thinking can be used in GW2. Basically for every hour you spent with a random player you've never seen before you get rewarded points for stuff. Limiting it to 1 point from each player during a certain time period encourages people to play away from the same group of guildies/friends. Basing on "per hour" prevent SC groups from getting more.

The funny thing is I stole this idea straight out of the Maple Story fame system. And that is a game that is almost entirely based on solo grinding. In that game you have to "befriend" people to fulfill equipment requirements.

Do we? If so, then either you mean something else than what you posted, or you didn't read my post well enough :P
Bolded relevant parts. But overall I think we're on the same side of the discussion here :P

Yeah, but then they would have to assign an item to every quest... too much work for too little purpose.

No, the prevalent argument was "it ruins the balance in PvE and between classes". PuGs are ALWAYS worse than guilds. Even the bad guilds.

Good guilds get players from forums. Believe me, NOT from Pugging. And especially not from towns...

And that extra effort you're talking about? That's why they are good guilds. They take the effort.

When God gives you crappy monks, you FIND A NEW GOD!

Save Yourselves + Prot Spirit + Spirit Bond = lolrotfl. Or use Shelter + Ritual Lord Ritualist for party-wide hyper-protection. Tank using Save Yourselves and a Ritualist for protection is all you need in terms of damage mitigation.
They would also have to remove PvE-only skills and remove the split... And change the AI to not be sucky. But that would probably make henchmen more viable. God forbid us H/H players get something once in a while.
UUUUUGGGGHHHH hella hard to implement and filled with extremely possible exploits.
Wow, really stupid idea. It would DIScourage people from playing with friends and guilds.

Me? I wouldn't play, ever. Guy would leave after the first hour, just like any PuG would. And they still suck more than henches.
Sounds like a stupid game. You MUST befriend people? Jesus Christ.

Yes we do. ("!=" -> "not equals", couldn't remember the unicode for ≠ when I typed my message so went for the logical operator used in programming).

You called this category of builds "clever gimmicks", I called them "probably overpowered stuff that I wouldn't call a gimmick tough". We're basically saying the same (that these builds are sort of "normal" anyway), aren't we?

Not the way it was ment to play...
If a player buy's the game, I'm supposed to do whatever I like then.
If I wanna farm in the game I farm, If I wanna play pvp I play PvP.
People don't have to tell me what I have to do, or how I need to play the game. You need to play the game how ever you like it, not like somebody else would like it.

There's a problem with your argument. You've listed items that are hard to get. Plenty of popular, expensive skins had their rarity reduced. Stygian Reaver, Runic Blade, Elemental Sword, Serpent Axe and Dwarven Axe, just to name a few. Few players use those skins today. They aren't desirable because they are no longer rare.

Members of the community value rarity. Make almost everything common, and people will gravitate to the things that are still rare. Make everything common, and the economy collapses. Doing that drives out farmers and traders that ANet wants to sell games to, so that outcome just isn't going to happen.

There's nothing wrong with buffing rewards for "casual" play. It would be a just thing to do. But it would not have the impact some of you seem to be hoping for.

"The Way It's Meant to be Played"
That is:
- Using an Intel CPU.
- Having a nVidia GPU.
- Playing under a Microsoft OS.
- Following the game rules.
- Following the game plot.
- Not exploiting bugs, glitches or loopholes to make things way faster than intended or gaining unfair advantages over the rest of the players.
- Taking a break every hour.
Etc.

To sum it up, looking for the fun not in how much you get or your e-Peen, but in how much you do and who you do it with.
Doing the same farm again and again is not making 'more', it's making the same again and again.

GW doesn't have real a high-end item system.
So it's stupid to look for 'better items' in GW. There are games like Diablo that have always a 'better' item waiting to drop for you, but that's not the thing in GW.
Still, there are people that want that anyways.
Maybe that's one of the reasons for GW2.