Update - Thursday, March 11, 2010

We're not just talking about one exploit. I'll admit, the Mallyx exploit was kept small. Same with the Duncan exploit. Banning people who did that would not make the landscape barren, but I wasn't talking about banning for just one exploit. You stated "Ban them all" - Every person who's ever used an exploit. You'd be banning WELL over half the population.

Think about it. The GW population is rather small, somewhere in the lower thousands in average online. If there is say, 100 exploits, and 100 people used each exploit (Even by accident, as your post seems to imply, but I could be wrong there), you're banning 10,000 people.

There's a lot more exploits, and there's a lot more people who have used each. That portal jumping exploit? Almost everyone I know who has their carto title used it in one form or another.

Oh, and please don't pull out the "By Cheating" clause in there - Cheating is so damned vague, you could apply it to seeping wound, even (Omfg, seeping wound is cheating because it does a lot of damage with a 50% IMS) (Omfg, Ursan is cheating because it lets you do hardcore areas easy!) (Omfg, shadowform is cheating ... You get the idea)

Oh, and don't forget: There's an entire title based around cheating. It's called the Legendary Defender of Ascalon - That's right. Originally, it was not meant for people to be able to get past level 16 in pre, but people did it anyways, and they even gave them a title for it. Originally, monsters were not meant to level up. Do these people deserve banning?

Carpet banning is not the answer, it never is.

Didn't they had to make a script so monsters could lvl up? Or were the creators like... Look at that they can lvl

Wouldn't it be meant to lvl them up then

I had noticed it too, but my random guild group (with only 1 monk left due to DCs by the time we got to urgoz) managed to take him down alright.

You just gotta take him down to 90% health and let EoE do all the work

I didn't say ban everyone who has ever used an exploit. Exploits happen. You ban those who ABUSE exploits.

Anyone who has done an exploit over and over because you GAIN something (Another word in that quote you used but ignored) from doing so, is exploiting. If you do it on accident, it's an accident.

I also never stated that all bans need to be permanent bans. However sure. Ban half the population if they need to.

I also have carto, and not once used an exploit. Granted it was after they added some extra locations to Tyria like the "End" area with droknar items. (Sorry, I started later)

That's not cheating and you know it. You are being deliberately obtuse. Cheating is "Injecting code so that you always run at 50%." or "Finding out that if you have full obsidian armor but wear all of it except the pants, you are invulnerable."

THAT is cheating. Using skills as they are in game is not cheating. That's just stupidspeak.

Cheating? No. Game mechanic? Yes. Exploit? Not since they vindicated it as valid.

/thread win

The real and only difference between exploit and valid - what Anet says.

Very reliable considering they usually say nothing.

This is the part that irks me the most. You say that it hasn't been an exploit since...

So we do what, ban the pioneers who had the initiative to do this thing, which aNet took notice of and implemented into the game thus bettering it? I thought people who took advantage of exploits were all bad and game breakers.

You would make a terrible DM. In cases of what can be seen as a bannable exploit, or alternately is an overall good idea in a situation with limits emplaced before a full understanding was gained of the scope of the game, i.e. Pre, judgement must be made on a case by case basis, not just a big fat whack for all with the ole ban stick.

I don't know the origins of death leveling. My personal guess is that someone figured it out on accident by falling asleep at the keyboard and waking up to the enemies being level 20 and connecting the dots.

That is not an exploit. That is an accident and the discovery of a game mechanic.

Monsters level up if they kill things enough to do so.

They COULD have said that death leveling critters is an exploit and from that point started banning everyone that did it from then on.

The difference between this stupid scenario and Duncan the black is that in order to get to Duncan in this case you have to abuse a game mechanic to get to a location that is otherwise inaccessible to bypass something that prevents you from doing it normally.

Awesome anet Thanks!

-Pleik

You'll get no arguments from me on this whole Duncan debacle, it's something that I'd bring the hammer down on as a DM in a big bad way. My point is just that your "bans for all" stance is not the best way in all exploit-type situations.

I'm not blind at all to what you are saying, the fact still remains that the people who were initially using the obvious exploit of death leveling should, by your protocols be banned for it. In direct opposite to your stance, aNet themselves noticed the people making use of this bug, this exploit, to get beyond the aforementioned level in Pre, and made a title of it, banning no-one in the process.

You have to see that there are more than just shades of grey there, rather, you might say that there are gaping holes in the eula, and therefore in the minds of those who adhere to it more stricly than aNet themselves do, which need to be addressed.

*Edit* Thinking about the death level thing I can't help but wonder you know.. At the time that it was first found and started being done, was anyone in any forum posting thing like; "There's guys here in Pre that are like level 18, and they're cheating by leveling monsters for more xp, they should be banned!!!"

I got a feeling they're there you know, archived in some dusty GW forum vault..

give creative, ingenuitive, and (sometimes) intelligent people a sandbox that you havent updated in over 1.5 yrs and they will find marvelous things.

Look, all I freaking asked was if those who exploited Duncan for obvious tangible gain by getting to a location obviously denied without abusing an exploit were banned.

All the rest of this is from someone defending exploiters with obtuse logic.

Personally? Ban each and every exploiter. The first death leveler should have submitted a report about the occurrence, getting permission to continue or denied permission. Should he continue past permission, then BAN HIM.

Since I was here well after it was turned into a title, then it's a freaking moot point that was added to this discussion as a tangential "Defense" to exploitation.

Screw that. Ban the exploiters.

But are you sure you never took advantage of any bugs in the game even if you didn't know about it, but your team did and took advantage of it, you're guilty.

Officer: I didn't know he robbed the bank. I was just driving him and doing what I was told. I'm a follower, not a leader officer.

LOL!!!!

No one innocent. Sooner or later, you will take advantage of a bug with or without knowing. Therefore, you should be banned.

"I didn't know the portal jumping was a bug. I thought it was common knowledge until I saw the fix today ANET. Honestly." LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your opinion is invalid, and this is why:

Only NC Interactive has the right to terminate accounts.

See? This is the obtuse logic that I have been talking about.

It's like trying to explain Shakespeare to a sponge.

0 or 1 when binary is not the system I was speaking of.

I hold that since my "opinion" didn't include myself causing any bans and in fact simply asked a question that my "opinion" was indeed quite valid.

Are you mad that you didn't get to take advantage of the bug and lost a chance to make a few millions?

Here..have a sucker(lollipop ). Feel better?

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't get a chance to make a bazillion either.

WTS: Deldrimor Armor Remnant 50K Each - 1000 left only.

No. You are interpreting the rules set forth by ANet and enforced by NCSoft and advocating that a specific action is taken for a supposed rule violation. You are not asking a question, you are making a statement. Only NCSoft can have the authority to determine if their rules have been violated, and any action taken is their sole right and responsibility. You are free to express your opinion on perceived rule violations, but ultimately NCSoft and ANet decide the rules.

No. I asked a followup question to Anet's response on the situation. Whether or not they found that they should ban those who exploited.

Followed by my personal opinion of what should( have) occur(red).

Followed by defense of my position on exploiters against obtuse logic in defense of exploiting...

Incorrect: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=30

I asked a question. The rest is tangential crap.

I prefer to profit indirectly from exploits. I just bought a good number of deldrimor armor remnants dirt cheap.

1. Good update.

2. While you're at it, mind doing something about the mobs that got multiple copies of RoJ? (Afflicted, Fleshreaver Hounds, Crypt Banshees, a few others.) The H+H AI just does not handle facing that very well at all. (Either that or make the H+H smart enough to avoid RoJ entirely as soon as the animation starts, like a human would.)

3.
Yes he was. Had a very miserable PUG experience with it a few days back for the ZB...

4.
You're mistaking ease for importance. Mesmers, Dervishes, and Rangers all have very deep fundamental problems in PvE that probably cannot be solved at all, or, if they can be solved, will take a great deal of time and effort. Overpowered monsters took a comparatively trivial amount of time for a guaranteed, albeit small, positive result on the game. Making the quick, easy fix first was the right call by a-net.

Why do you think they made the test krewe? Having a bunch of players test stuff means less testing for the live team, which means they have the ability to work on more projects at once. It's not a fair assumption unless you know exactly how the live team is dealing with things.

was there a 2nd update or am I just out of it?????

if so, what did they do....'fix crash bug' thing or something else-----

if not just continue to ignore me

Good to see the Duncan speed clear ended. Anet's choice but I would not be unhappy to see a few banhammers dropped.

Urgoz - yes - good to see. This wasn't a serious problem to our runs, but as anyone who does this a lot knows, every so often there is a run when Urgy has a serious field day at binding. When you have 1 dead and 11/12 bound it last 30 seconds doing damage when moving....... We had 2 runs that were very near wipes with res, recover and regroup so will be happy to see that gone.

So monsters and their AI are now 'fixed' by removing the buffed and obviously improperly tested skills and adding various no-brainer skills that only require a random activation algorithm.

What a workaround. If this was tested properly for AI purposes in the first place, this update wouldn't have been necessary.

In one year, all monsters will only carry Healing Signet and Power Attack.

no mesmer, dervish, ranger or paragon expects the team to release one big update that would cover all of their issues in pve.
seriously, if the problem is so complex and deep - and i don't doubt it is - start working on it with baby steps. three skills or one mechanic a time, watch what it actually changed and if the change was good, if something got broken - repair it and change another skill.
it wouldn't take too much time either and seeing two skills changed today and two next week would be a very good thing for community.

we'd love to know how the live team and/or the test krewe works actually - it would cut off a lot of whining and build more understanding in the community - but everything is 'top secret' and no one actually shares any info.
so everything we have is effects of their work. and they're pretty shitty.



regarding banning people for exploiting duncan or arachni - it's pretty much the same thing as with mallyx. the only reason i might have to defend exploiters is the fact that i have exploited as well.
and since i haven't, i don't see a point to defend them.
in my opinion, everyone who has used an exploit to bypass part of the game to gain in-game profit should be banned. permanently, if it was abused 10+ times by one account. not taking any actions against it is like saying 'if you find a bug ingame, feel free to exploit it until we fix it, good for you'.
i also don't see how one can compare HFFF to exploiting portals in order to get to duncan. HFFF is gaining advantage of the game mechanics, but it was all there, it was all given - it's like using discordway or SF. sure, it shouldn't be there in the first place, but all pieces were given without the need to use any bugs the team was unaware of. getting to duncan/arachni/etc required an action meant to bypass the game's mechanics.
and when comparing exploiting to duncan with exploiting to explore the map, we should notice the noxiousness of an act, especially economical side of it. exploring just lets you gain a title without waiting for the boardwalk to be open (and, imho, one shouldn't need boardwalk/exploits/town control in order to explore canthan map - but that's another topic), while killing duncan in ~5 minutes strikes the - already severely wounded - economy.

Thats just silly. Suppose one of the refilling treasure chests in Nightfall was programmed wrongly, giving a sapphire every time. Would you than ban those who only do that treasure hunt, leaving the rest? Or what about the teleport exploit that made is possible to get beyond locked gates in Factions? Just ban them? It's the responsibillity of the game company to repair flaws. Don't blame players for using them.

it's gaining advantage of what has been given. we cannot say if a chest dropping always a sapphire was done by purpose or not. we may assume that it's not a bug, maybe a hidden bonus for people doing those runs and noting their outcomes, therefore it's fine. we have doubt here, while one should be proven their guilt, not innocence.
on the other hand, we are sure that getting to duncan is exploiting the game by bypassing it's mechanics. and it gives a lot of profit over people who don't use that exploit. it's the very same as was with mallyx.

please read the whole post before replying, thank you.

The only problem is, the game physically allowed it to happen and thus it's not against the mechanics, it's only against morals. And those are in short supply these days.

Yes. When I play, the only dervishes and rangers I encounter are enemies, and they're perfectly fine; mesmers, meanwhile, make great heroes.

So it's all good ^_^

Incorrect. This glitch arises out of the game mechanics directly, mostly due to lazy coding on ANets part. This is entirely different to the mallyx glitch, which required modification of the games memory by external software.

This update didn't... Do anything.

we need a monster skill bar contest.

How about a Teste Krewe skill bar contest? We design skill bars and force them to use the bars until the next skill update. {searching for a skill named "Head Up Ur Ass"... or maybe Headbutt will send the message?}

ANet chooses what the Test Krewe works on, not the other way around. It's their game.

I figured I'd throw that out there for maybe the third time or so.

What about people that use Deadly Paradox? They should be banned too right? If you recall, Deadly Paradox use to recharge your skills by 66% and not the 33% as stated. So, if you EVER use DP, than you should get banned too!!! Look at the date of the fix. It was October 22, 2009!!! That mean's anytime before that, you're BANNED!!!! for exploiting a bug like you said.

I give you "THE LINK":
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20091022
In fact, ANET should go through their entire list of bugs and anyone found using any skills that are bug should be banned. The person should've waited a few days, weeks, months, or years for ANET to fix the bug before they use the skill. Just looking at the Oct 22, 2009 update, I see 6 bugs fixed. All those people that took advantage of that bug needs to be banned. LOL!!!!


Couldn't have been from me. I'm selling for 50K a piece and YES I've sold about 10 so far.

I try to buy up every single on that is being sold knowing that Slaver's Exile is not easily SOLO runnable anymore because of the Spirit of Disenchantments randomly popping anywhere.

With less in the market, prices goes sky high. The NEW improve power trading.

Except, we can because you agreed to the EULA which clearly states, if you find a glitch ingame you will not use it. This can be interrupted broadly (mallyx door trick) or narrowly (duncan speed clear) either way you agreed to play by their rules. Their rules would be the EULA and they can and will enforce them at their pleasure.