Title
E.g. q8 shields, etc.
Did a quick search to see if this has been suggested. Apologies if it has.
Enable creation of Low req pvp equipment
Perfected Shadow
MagmaRed
Why? To further destroy the economy? These are rare items, and provide decent money for people that find them. Giving them away for free to PvP characters will only make the skin matter for pricing. There are plenty of them available, just buy one from another player.
/signed
*edit* Thought I better make sure people realized the "/signed" was sarcastic
/signed
*edit* Thought I better make sure people realized the "/signed" was sarcastic
stanzhao
i am almost mesmerized that you think this is an idea even worth mentioning. to be honest i wouldnt apolagise about not using the search function, i would apolagise for not using your brain.
say... for some crazy reason, anet decided that they would give you q8 weaps for every pvp char. then someone else comes along... 'ya know what this game REALLY needs? some q7 weaps.'
'hey yeah, thats a good idea too, but i have thought of an even better one... q6!'
'holy balls! this guy right here... he's thinking of the future... the future'
...and so on and so forth. its also pointless to have everyone on q8 weaps... as everyone else would have them too... kinda defeats the object, why not just stick to q9... which everyone already has
say... for some crazy reason, anet decided that they would give you q8 weaps for every pvp char. then someone else comes along... 'ya know what this game REALLY needs? some q7 weaps.'
'hey yeah, thats a good idea too, but i have thought of an even better one... q6!'
'holy balls! this guy right here... he's thinking of the future... the future'
...and so on and so forth. its also pointless to have everyone on q8 weaps... as everyone else would have them too... kinda defeats the object, why not just stick to q9... which everyone already has
BlueNovember
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Originally Posted by stanzhao
why not just stick to q9... which everyone already has
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However the advantage is relatively insignificant, and it would ruin a perfectly good market.
Andemius
/notsigned
low q items give average PvErs an advantage over PvPers, they're supposed to be rarer with nice skins, In any case, ppl who are rich can just buy them anyways.
low q items give average PvErs an advantage over PvPers, they're supposed to be rarer with nice skins, In any case, ppl who are rich can just buy them anyways.
Desert Rose
Being able to create PvP equipment with a lower req but therefor less power would be nice, e.g. q7 shields with only 15 armor.
FoxBat
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Originally Posted by stanzhao
say... for some crazy reason, anet decided that they would give you q8 weaps for every pvp char. then someone else comes along... 'ya know what this game REALLY needs? some q7 weaps.'
'hey yeah, thats a good idea too, but i have thought of an even better one... q6!' |
A UI to specify lower powers would be cool but it seems like too much work at this stage. So I'd settle for max PvP items lowered to q8. Or retroactively nerf q8 maxes to q9, lord knows Mo/Ws don't need to be as good as they are, but that will just have people scrambling over q7/al15s.
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| its also pointless to have everyone on q8 weaps... as everyone else would have them too... kinda defeats the object, why not just stick to q9... which everyone already has |
Again, bypassing the economy/market entirely is the POINT of PvP characters.
Skyy High
I agree that this would make it more fair for PvP chars, but is it a big enough deal to care about?
Div
Anet cares more about (what's left of) their economy than actual game fairness.
While it makes no sense why someone has to spend ~500k+ to get a full set of req8 shields to even start competing fairly in PvP, Anet simply doesn't care about the PvP community enough, so won't do anything about it.
Anyone who argues that PvE characters or rich players should have an advantage doesn't understand the premise the game was built on.
While it makes no sense why someone has to spend ~500k+ to get a full set of req8 shields to even start competing fairly in PvP, Anet simply doesn't care about the PvP community enough, so won't do anything about it.
Anyone who argues that PvE characters or rich players should have an advantage doesn't understand the premise the game was built on.
Reverend Dr
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Originally Posted by Div
Anet cares more about (what's left of) their economy than actual game fairness.
While it makes no sense why someone has to spend ~500k+ to get a full set of req8 shields to even start competing fairly in PvP, Anet simply doesn't care about the PvP community enough, so won't do anything about it. Anyone who argues that PvE characters or rich players should have an advantage doesn't understand the premise the game was built on. |
They also care too much about what's left of the economy to put in a real AH, as if they put in a working AH the economy would be destroyed in a few months.
jazilla
I am completely missing how the economy is broken. Broken like when 20/20 hilts went for 35k^? The economy is pretty stinkin fair. I am like the rest of the people, and I was bummed that ectos didn't shoot up to 11k at the Rare Mat. Trader. But diamonds are on the rise as are the rest of the gems. The economy is far from broken. If anything I find it the players that don't grasp how selling works. I remember when feathers dipped pretty drastically and people were selling essences for MORE than they were selling them when feathers were 10k a stack on average. I scratched my head on that one, because it means that people can't be bothered to even check with the Material Trader and they just accept whatever people decide to sell things for. Don't hate the game, hate the players.
Perfected Shadow
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Originally Posted by stanzhao
i am almost mesmerized that you think this is an idea even worth mentioning. to be honest i wouldnt apolagise about not using the search function, i would apolagise for not using your brain.
say... for some crazy reason, anet decided that they would give you q8 weaps for every pvp char. then someone else comes along... 'ya know what this game REALLY needs? some q7 weaps.' |
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Originally Posted by Andemius
low q items give average PvErs an advantage over PvPers, they're supposed to be rarer with nice skins, In any case, ppl who are rich can just buy them anyways.
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MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow
I think you're misunderstanding the suggestion. What I want is pvp chars to be able to create weapons that already exist in pve (same requirement, don't care about skin). There are q8 max stat equip in pve so they should be easily available for pvp too. There are q7 15 AL shields in pve so they should be easily available for pvp too, etc.
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The only thing I see this doing is removing a part of the in game market. It be like letting people get Wendy's food at McDonalds, without having to pay for it.
Perfected Shadow
This is for you magma:
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
Everyone is SUPPOSED to have the same thing, it's called even competition, it's the point of PvP character creation.
Again, bypassing the economy/market entirely is the POINT of PvP characters. |
ShadowsRequiem
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Originally Posted by jazilla
I am completely missing how the economy is broken. Broken like when 20/20 hilts went for 35k^? The economy is pretty stinkin fair. I am like the rest of the people, and I was bummed that ectos didn't shoot up to 11k at the Rare Mat. Trader. But diamonds are on the rise as are the rest of the gems. The economy is far from broken. If anything I find it the players that don't grasp how selling works. I remember when feathers dipped pretty drastically and people were selling essences for MORE than they were selling them when feathers were 10k a stack on average. I scratched my head on that one, because it means that people can't be bothered to even check with the Material Trader and they just accept whatever people decide to sell things for. Don't hate the game, hate the players.
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I think its a good idea though, this is just like how anet used to nerf the pve items people would use in gvg. Anyone remember that fire wand that used to make you attack faster? but it had a -10% chance to miss. Good times.
Req 8 shields would be a good idea, but they'll never add it. And imo it wouldn't hurt its not like you can sell pvp items XD
Del
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
PvP characters already have access to those req 8 and req 7 items that PvE characters do. They may not be able to go farm them with that PvP character, but not all PvE people playing PvP farmed thier own anyway. Just buy them from another player like most people already do. Those req 8 and req 7 items are 'rare', which means they are worth more money. That is part of the economy in the game. PvP players have EASY ways to make money. Just cash in your Balthazar faction for Zkeys and sell them, or win Halls and get rare skin weapons, mini Ghostly, sigils, etc. and sell those.
The only thing I see this doing is removing a part of the in game market. It be like letting people get Wendy's food at McDonalds, without having to pay for it. |
/signed for great justice
Quail Stomp
Shouldnt have to put up with pvers trying to power trade just to get the shields you need to compete with.
/signed
/signed
Terrible Surgeon
cool idea i think its fair to those who dont have pve accts and screw you farmers. If u farm so well go get me a torm shield and pm me in game plox...i want a q9 torm shield [tactics] have strength already and get me a BDS q9 divine favor and a VS q9 dyed black caster modded....dont bitch about shitty skinned shields that drop out the ass in w/e areas,\.... "ITS GONNA HURT FARMErs!!" SERIOUSLY.....who gives a shake of a fist GORED ENGINE!!!
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by Desert Rose
Being able to create PvP equipment with a lower req but therefor less power would be nice, e.g. q7 shields with only 15 armor.
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Consider those rare pve drops as it were "rare skin" drops so no , low req weaps are meant for low lvl chars and pvp chars are always 20. If you want a rare shield , buy them where they are , in PvE.
/notsignedlikehell
Yawgmoth
Ruininating the economy after 5 years of low req drops being fine is bad. And the whole "problem" isn't serious enough to warrant developer time - seriously, you can buy 15/8 or 14/7 shields dirt cheap (many ppl merch them) and you won't feel the difference. And then when you get some more money you can slowly upgrade to 16/8 and 15/7, and it's always been a very safe investment - they don't lose value! Now such an update would make the PvP players who already bought them LOSE A LOT.
That's why /not signed.
That's why /not signed.
MithranArkanere
The point of making PvP characters is being able to make anything without having to bother about getting gear. (Once you pay or get the unlocks)
Skins come after that.
So, if a player can bring a pet with slightly different stats, then PvP characters should be able to... and they finally did.
All that's left is some items that can't be recplicated.
And that has to go to, as pet differences did.
Now, items that may drop in PvE but can't be replicated in PvP are the same.
Offhand and staves with weird combinations, req 8 and 7 items with maxed stats...
Either you block their use in PvP, or let PvP characters create them.
That kind of difference doesn't matter at all in PvE, but in PvP, all sides must be as equal as possible. And PvP characters should never be forced to purchase something from another player in order to have something a PvE player can have. If they wanted to pick drops and waste time spamming they would be in Kamadan like the rest.
Of course there could still be exceptions, like non-maxed items, festival weapons and 'toy' uniques like the ogre-slaying knife or the Istan and Shing Jea ones.
Skins come after that.
So, if a player can bring a pet with slightly different stats, then PvP characters should be able to... and they finally did.
All that's left is some items that can't be recplicated.
And that has to go to, as pet differences did.
Now, items that may drop in PvE but can't be replicated in PvP are the same.
Offhand and staves with weird combinations, req 8 and 7 items with maxed stats...
Either you block their use in PvP, or let PvP characters create them.
That kind of difference doesn't matter at all in PvE, but in PvP, all sides must be as equal as possible. And PvP characters should never be forced to purchase something from another player in order to have something a PvE player can have. If they wanted to pick drops and waste time spamming they would be in Kamadan like the rest.
Of course there could still be exceptions, like non-maxed items, festival weapons and 'toy' uniques like the ogre-slaying knife or the Istan and Shing Jea ones.
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
And PvP characters should never be forced to purchase something from another player in order to have something a PvE player can have.
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Desert Rose
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Either you block their use in PvP, or let PvP characters create them.
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Simply make all max weapons/off hands req. 9 while in PvP, and change the req. for non max weapons/off hand accordingly.
That would make all players equal, PvP characters don't have to buy costly items from other players to stay competitive, and PvE characters don't need to have perfect or near perfect equitment to be useable in PvP.
Perfected Shadow
Looks liek the moral is that the virtual economy, rarities and other bullshit are more important than pvp fairness.
FoxBat
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Originally Posted by Desert Rose
That given me idea:
Simply make all max weapons/off hands req. 9 while in PvP, and change the req. for non max weapons/off hand accordingly. |
Shadowhaze
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
The buck stops at q8 only because you can ALREADY get those in PvE. q7 max insc do not exist.
A UI to specify lower powers would be cool but it seems like too much work at this stage. So I'd settle for max PvP items lowered to q8. Or retroactively nerf q8 maxes to q9, lord knows Mo/Ws don't need to be as good as they are, but that will just have people scrambling over q7/al15s. Everyone is SUPPOSED to have the same thing, it's called even competition, it's the point of PvP character creation. Again, bypassing the economy/market entirely is the POINT of PvP characters. |
Darth The Xx
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
You make it sound like ALL PvE players have req 8 and req 7 items. They are rare, and not many people have them, the majority of those who do are people playing PvP. I'd be willing to bet that well over half of the people who use these items bought them. Removing them from PvP would piss off a LOT of people, more so than the nerfs to things like Ursan and Shadow Form. Providing them simply takes away the rare factor from them. May as well start letting people buy create PvP equipment for PvE characters. Just keep them unslavagable and unsellable, that way PvE characters don't have to spend time/money getting good weapon sets.
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Just read what you write before you write it. What you are essentially saying is that its ok for somebody to have an advantage in PvP if they have more money. Grow up if it really bothers you that much just slap a small TRP/Balth Faction/ZCoin unlock cost on these items then its like every other pvp item.
Yes you can buy pretty much every single other item on a PvP char including Torms/Crysta's/Obby armour and all that stuff that makes PvErs leet via the same system. Hence if it had an unlock cost this wouldn't be a problem would it?
lemming
Alternative option: nerf tactics stances.
Neo Atomisk
q8=15ar and /signed
DoomFrost
Better idea is that any equipment attained in PvE should be auto adjusted to match PvP equipment. i.e. a shield with a low requirement of 7 mastery with an AL of 14-15 would be boosted to a requirement of 9 with an AL of 16 just like a PvP created shield. Such would only happen in PvP much like how skills are changed to their PvP versions when you enter a PvP outpost.
I figure create an environmental effect that applies for all PvP missions or just amend the existing PvP effect with: "While you're in this area all equipment is matched according to the rules set by the Zaishen Order. Equipment will have (PvP) by their name with their stats adjusted accordingly." Or some other better wording.
And about trading, equipment would be shown in their original form in the trade window.
I figure create an environmental effect that applies for all PvP missions or just amend the existing PvP effect with: "While you're in this area all equipment is matched according to the rules set by the Zaishen Order. Equipment will have (PvP) by their name with their stats adjusted accordingly." Or some other better wording.
And about trading, equipment would be shown in their original form in the trade window.
MithranArkanere
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
You make it sound like ALL PvE players have req 8 and req 7 items.
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If at least one has them, and not everyone can have them. Then that must be fixed.
PvP-only players can have them, but ONLY by getting them from PvE players, and we can't have that either.
So, either they go, or PvP characters can copy them too.
It's not like a maxed req8 inscribable shield is hard to get and rare, those things drop blue a lot around Kourna.
Now, getting a rare skin with also req 8 or 7 it's a different thing. And getting a PvP character being able to make a PvP item won't change how rare the PvE version is.
FoxBat
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
It's not like a maxed req8 inscribable shield is hard to get and rare, those things drop blue a lot around Kourna.
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I hear q7/al15s are also going through the roof, likely due to the weakness spam from the new blood templates.
MithranArkanere
You won't find any if you look for a special skin in HM.
But if you play for a while, in NM, you'll eventually get maxed req8 a blue name shield or focus.
With foci is much easier, and with weapons it's way harder, though.
If you are picky with the skin and rarity color, you'll definitely take WAAAY much longer.
But if you play for a while, in NM, you'll eventually get maxed req8 a blue name shield or focus.
With foci is much easier, and with weapons it's way harder, though.
If you are picky with the skin and rarity color, you'll definitely take WAAAY much longer.
Axel Zinfandel
Are these things really causing as much of a rift in the PvP community as you people are leading me to believe?
TheGuildWarsPenguin
Update March 17 2010
-New +5 attribute point quest for PvE characters.
-Quest requires you to win 1 GvG match in a daily AT.
Suck it; like wading into PvP to get an advantage in PvE?
-New +5 attribute point quest for PvE characters.
-Quest requires you to win 1 GvG match in a daily AT.
Suck it; like wading into PvP to get an advantage in PvE?
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by TheGuildWarsPenguin
Update March 17 2010
-New +5 attribute point quest for PvE characters. -Quest requires you to win 1 GvG match in a daily AT. Suck it; like wading into PvP to get an advantage in PvE? |
I agree with the ideas that those shields with lower ratings and such should either not exist or be usable in PvP, or that they be available to everyone. q8/16AL shields probably aren't so common or cheap that everyone is going to get access to them, which skews the playing field. It's not even like an issue of having or not having the option unlocked; the option just isn't there in the first place.
That said, this all seems rather trivial.
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
At least one has. One is one too much, PRECISELY because things are closer to balance when EVERYBODY has access to them.
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
PvP-only players can have them, but ONLY by getting them from PvE players, and we can't have that either.
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
So, either they go, or PvP characters can copy them too.
It's not like a maxed req8 inscribable shield is hard to get and rare, those things drop blue a lot around Kourna. |
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Now, getting a rare skin with also req 8 or 7 it's a different thing. And getting a PvP character being able to make a PvP item won't change how rare the PvE version is.
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Like i said before , im not against logical progression down in req/armor , like r8/15 al and r7/14 but allow them to create r8/16 ? nah , never , hell no. 1 Armor is the main diff between rare and common and it doesnt matter much in pvp so pvp ppl shouldnt be bitching about it.
Want a rare ? work for money and buy it , thats it.
Reverend Dr
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Originally Posted by lemming
Alternative option: nerf tactics stances.
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also yes, get rid of tactics stances
Shadowhaze
Technically not everyone can buy them...well they can but it's dependant on their ingame money. And not everyone farms a great deal. Some don't have the ridiculous funds needed to buy some of those items, therefore there is an advantage for the wealthy who do play pvp with such items vs those who don't own virtual wealth.
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by Shadowhaze
Technically not everyone can buy them...well they can but it's dependant on their ingame money. And not everyone farms a great deal. Some don't have the ridiculous funds needed to buy some of those items, therefore there is an advantage for the wealthy who do play pvp with such items vs those who don't own virtual wealth.
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Zkeys = money.
It is not hard for PvP players to obtain money, and it doesn't take huge sums of money for req 8 shields. If you want a rare skin it may cost a lot, but it really isn't out of reach of the average player. I have found quite a few req 8 shields playing PvE, and realized they were common enough that I just merchant them unless it is a rare skin. Finding a seller may be hard, but the cost is not a huge issue. If they were costing 100K+armbraces I might be inclined to agree with you, but I doubt you'd have trouble finding them for less than 50k if you could track down a seller. I never looked for a seller though, so it may be easier than I think.