Re-scaling the Gladiator Title - Post-TA-Removal, Points Per Victory

From what I have seen and heard, all of those who have high ranks in the Gladiator title have TA to thank. However, TA is gone now, and it's not coming back. Achievement in the Gladiator title, at least in the higher ranks, is extremely time consuming now, and the way there is wrought with failed runs and failures of teams. Additionally, an issue of players having little desire to play within certain team compositions and therefore leaving after the first match should try to be addressed.

Points Every Match

Very simple, every single match that you win awards you one point. At the moment, the only teams that are worth playing on are those teams that have a decent shot of getting five consecutive victories. It's even better if you can count on your team getting to ten, fifteen, or even further, but those teams are likely few and far between, syncing aside. In order to encourage players to stick with the teams that they have, I'd like to see one point given out per match to winners, so that winning and trying is always a good idea.

Remove Limit on Point Gain

Currently, at 25 wins, you gain nine points because you're not allowed to get more than four points for consecutives. Remove that limit so that the point values on consecutives can increase at the 25 win mark. What I am not suggesting here is that runs past 25 wins are to be allowed. Do not get confused.

Re-Scaling of Title

Of course, getting one point per victory is going to allow players to get a great deal more points than they currently get. So, I'm suggesting that all levels of the Gladiator title be multiplied by ten, and all current points that players currently have be multiplied by ten. On the previous adjustment of the Gladiator title, the tiers were multiplied by five and point values by six, but I am choosing not to raise the points that players have by more than the ranks here because gaining points at the lower levels will be extremely easy in comparison to before.

This means that the first few ranks of the title would become 1000 points for Gladiator (1), 2000 points for Fierce Gladiator (2), 4000 points for Mighty Gladiator (3), and so on. Also, a player who currently has something like 6550 points right now would have 65500 points after the change. The points that players have post-update is effectively the same, but it's necessary to do this in order to ensure that real title progression will not be made without getting into a team or two that can get some consecutive runs together.

Increasing Points for Consecutives

The benefits of three or four points on later consecutives are weak compared to the amount of points you can just get for winning, without streaks. It is also necessary to increase how many points are given out for consecutive wins in order to keep title progression speed as good as it is now, and it would probably be a good bonus to lucky teams to have a scaling distribution of points. So, the point bonus for consecutives needs to be boosted. The proposed change is as follows:

• 5 Consecutives - 5 bonus points
• 10 Consecutives - 15 bonus points
• 15 Consecutives - 35 bonus points
• 20 Consecutives - 75 bonus points
• 25 Consecutives - 155 bonus points
• 70 bonus points to be rewarded upon reaching 25 consecutives, and the team is ejected from the arena.

The maximum achievable points per run is currently 19 after 25 rounds of play. With the proposed change, you reach 14 points at nine rounds, 30 points at ten rounds, and a full 380 points for getting through 25 consecutive wins. The amount of points you gain over the old system ranges from ten times at the low end to twenty times at the high end (the first four rounds not counted, because I don't divide by zero). Effectively, you will be gaining somewhere between the same to double the amount of points over time than you normally do now.

-----------------------------

Self-concerns

My biggest incentive for a change to the Gladiator title is remove any kind of mentality that trying to put forth any effort to win is pointless under XYZ condition. The way I see to do this is to reward players for each and every win they make in the arena. However, I don't really think that this would necessarily encourage the players to still stick with those teams after they win their first match, which I feel would be absolutely ideal.

I don't know if the numbers are right, but I approve of the idea. When a competitive arena (see also codex, TA) makes you feel bad despite winning 80%+ of your games, something is wrong.

With this change I'd also be reducing max consecuitives to 20 or 15, to cut down on new teams being farmed by those lucky well-balanced team configurations.

I like the idea, my only concern is that we're going to get RR-day again (even though the bonus points make it worthwhile to go for multiple wins)

Hey look, an idea worth hearing. I agree with you 100% on the reworking of the glad title, and this sounds extremely promising. Currently players aren't rewarded for just winning, rather winning consistently. When you pop into a team that you know you won't be getting any real consecutives with, it's kind of discouraging which just makes RA frustrating and boring sometimes. Just as you explained it adds an incentive to actually try every match, instead of just saying screw it when you get a crappy looking team. I'll admit i don't try nearly as much to win when i don't have a monk on my team, because really there is no point other than a small chance of getting a couple hundred faction before i dip and try again. I know it's like that with a lot of other players as well.

Can't say anything about the numbers, because you and i both know if something similar to this were to be implemented ANet would add their own numbers to accommodate for the actual changes being made. But the concept works, is understandable, and damn i hope it happens.

Is there RR day when the zquest is Random Arenas? Nope. In the scale of things how the OP explained, 3,000 faction is worth a lot more than 1 measly glad point. There's no way that would happen, not a snowball's chance in hell. Think about it.

/signed for the idea concept of reworking the glad title.
/unsigned in the actual numbers.

Hero Battles had a system of matching players by skill. So RR people would stay low down, while actual players would rise up and be faced against other serious players.

Random Arena has no such thing, which means the serious players will just rip through the RR teams anyways. HB had no consecutive wins reward, meaning that it was faster to resign even if you could have stayed in low levels; fighting while you were red was slowing down your faction gain.

Since RA does award consecutive wins, this means that winning every battle does in fact reward you more.

tl;dr RR would not be problem

I'd like to see the numbers reworked to go for a more linear link between the new and the old title.

The current point award system (and the amount of points you win in total)
5 wins: 1
10 wins: 3
15 wins: 6
20 wins: 10
25 wins: 19

Basically, I will follow your idea of simply multiplying the titletrack by 10.
This should (roughly) give:
5 wins: 10
10 wins: 30
15 wins: 60
20 wins: 100
25 wins: 190

This boils down to:
win 1 to 5: 1 point
5 consecutive wins: 5 bonus points

win 6 to 10: 2 points
10 consecutive wins: 10 bonus points

win 11 to 15: 2 points
15 consecutive wins: 20 bonus points

win 16 to 20: 3 points
20 consecutive wins: 40 bonus points

win 21 to 25: 3 points
25 consecutive wins: 60 bonus points

Points margins were adjusted slightly to make more sense.

Compairing the old system to the new:
5 wins: 1 point vs 10 points
10 wins: 3 points vs 30 points
15 wins: 6 points vs 60 points
20 wins: 10 points vs 115 points
25 wins: 19 points vs 190 points

Only discrepancy (to make the distribution a bit nicer) is at 20 wins, but I doubt anyone will mind people with 20 wins to get a fraction of extra points a bit earlier (they'll most likely hit 25 anyway, and if not, yay for the extra points).

Teams still exit the arena after 25 consecutive wins. No "extra" bonus is involved in hitting this "end zone", since you get 60 bonus points for hitting 25 wins already.

The Gladiator title would in return lose any of its hardly remaining prestige should any sort of rescaling of this type occur. I totally disagree with the numbers you've suggested; even double the current points would be overkill to begin with.

PvP ranks aren't meant to be maxed (HA aside). What's more, you're making whatever points the higher-ranked players have obsolete by letting new players rush up to their ranks in a matter of weeks.

/unsigned, even if you adjust the points

The reason why the scaling of points is no longer linear is due to that getting a point for every win. Consider this: every time you win a game now, you're not getting a point, and you're not getting a fraction of a point. With the new system, you would be getting a point, but it's effectively a fraction of a point with the title point boundaries being scaled upward. Those fractions will quickly add up to "points" that you never would have had under the old system. Players at the lower end won't be gaining points ten times as fast, but more like twenty or so times as fast, since they'll be getting those extra points for the teams that can win once or twice but can't pull a streak.

With that being the case, I wanted to make the benefits on the high end significantly larger so that there would actually be a noticeable benefit for rolling a team that could make it all the way. Otherwise, these rarely occuring teams wouldn't really be benefited that much more than players who just spent a lot of time in the arena grinding out single wins.

I'm just so glad to see some support for this.

If you've got a way to reward players for sticking with a team that can win but can't pull streaks and doesn't lead to awarding points and an adjustment of the title track, I'd like to hear it.

I doubt you would even say "HA aside" if nobody had ever maxed it. What's going to happen when someone maxes Gamer this Halloween? Add another exception?

Besides, the goal of this is not to make title gain easier specifically so that the title can be maxed (though I would like to have an easier time finishing up the last half of my progress between Glad ranks two and three). It's to make players more willing to stick with the teams that they are forced to play with in the arena, and to encourage putting some effort forward in every match.

Under this system, I predict that players will earn respective ranks maybe two to four times faster than before. I don't think that significantly high ranks of Gladiator title were achieved under one year's or a few month's time. They'll be easier to achieve now of course, but that's less from the increase in points and more from a decreased sense of frustration with being able to earn points for each win rather than after a certain number of wins.

I'd say this might be a valuable idea. /signed

/signed totally for the general idea.

however, the gain of 380 points after 25 wins ain't that much, considering it's still a random arena. even though the points needed should be multiplied, x10 is a bit too much imho - x5 should be fine.

All this would do is encourage people to sync to get easy points. I had 2 25 win streaks with total random teams in 1 day. With your "point system", i would of moved up an entire glad rank by getting 380 points. This would ruin RA even more. New players would get destroyed even more than they do now, and all the players who fail sync will resign/leave. Now, im not against re-scaling entirely, maybe just doubling the points and leaving the system the way it is. But what your suggesting is just awful. /notsigned

TA was a great way for people to farm lesser experienced PvE'ers and I will admit that... But ever since TA got removed I've only really went form getting 65-70 points a day to about 40-45 points a day. It's almost a 50% drops, dure, but I'm not too concerned about that. I get at least 3-4 25 conseqs a day pretty damn easily tbh.


Gladiator is honestly one of the easiest PvP titles earned imo. If you're a damn good Monk then you can make magic happen and pull in those 19 glads a run pretty easily.



So.... Your proposed idea gets a "nosankyuu" from me. Sorry.

I'm mostly playing RA when I do GW. And I always enjoy it. The glad rank is a funny bonus ofcourse. So changing a title because you can't farm it as fast is just lame!

The only problem I have is people who leave early. Is this logical? yes! Why? Because you won't get far without a nice team (monk!!). And it's anoying. Especially for casual gamer's and non-monks).

How does your idea solve this? It doesn't.. Because your idea of Increasing Points for Consecutives wins encourages the same thing! A good team is needed to get those consecutives! So they will still leave and try to join an better team!

So it would be better to completely remove the consecutive win thing. I really like the idea of awarding 1 point a win.

How to get rid of leavers? What about giving a 30 second pvp dishonorable status when you leave? Yeh! In those 30 secs you could have won or lost the battle..
So people will mostly just stay and finish the battle.

Now we still have the people who leave after one or more win. And I don't know how to solve this....

/signed PvP in general for GW needs to be updated

I'm all with ya...Ofc some serious thought would need to go into the exact point values but I think your on the right track...

Red resign shouldn't be an issue because of the incentive to get consecutive wins...

It would easily make up for the loss of TA

and...I might bother if I didn't have to worry about getting 5 consec wins...cause atm the rewards just don't come fast enough to make me interested...but if they came faster I would more inclined even if it meant a slower overall progression...like you multiplied the amount needed for titles by 2000...so long as I see actually progress I'm more likely to do it :\

if your so leet......post a SS of your maxed out Glad title.

The glad title is broke, needs fixed, awsome idea.................signed

/notsigned

some of my friends worked rly hard to get high glad title(g8-g10) and i consider them rly good players, and if u let it be just like HA u will bring lots more sycers and g-rank will lose it prestige fast

im g6 and i play RA few hours a days while waiting for GvG, and i think this title isnt ment to be maxed, like HA and flashing fancy emote, but to be prestige like champ title(which nowadays is losing it value cos of massive c-range sycing )

I don't know how you guys are finding prestige in a title whose growth is now the slowest it has probably ever been.

I think that's why they find prestige in it...

Your friends you refer to farmed their R7/8 back in the day when Glad was one of the easyest PvP titles to farm.

4 Experienced players with a balanced team could farm tons of gld each night vs the lesser skilled PvE or new PvP players trying to TA.

Starting at 0 and getting to R7-8 in todays system would take you years..........its not the same today as it was when they made R8.

Bring back TA or fix the system is all I ask. I could reach R8 too if TA was still here......

/signed. give us a updated RA

not true

i play this game for 3 years with 1 year brake, after 1 year brake I got from g0 to g6 in 6 months only in RA,not TA, and i never got 1 point from sync, so its not that hard ...this new option would give ppl
who are bad at pvp to get easy title to show off...

I absolutely agree that there should be a one glad point per win update added. However, to prevent the title from becoming too easy to progress in, increase the points required to reach the next level and do some fancy multiplying to keep people at/close to the level they have attained now.

The bonus points you have listed here as examples seem pretty insane in my opinion. Leave them as they stand now, with 19 bonus points max at 25 wins, and then get booted back to the RA outpost.

I've always liked the idea of awarding a point per win for RA (wouldn't be a bad idea for codex either). It's more incentive to come back even if you get steamrolled every few matches because each win provides faction plus title progress. It's an excellent way to bring new players to the pvp environment.

For those worried about prestige being lost on the title. I don't think anyone here (other then upier) wants to make the title something they can now max in a short while. They just don't want to deal with people who leave cause their isn't a hero, or deal with the frustrations of getting nothing for 4 straight wins.

Besides, you know you'd see some hilarious and creative builds if people knew they only needed to win once to progress the title.

I would say your biased because your a monk, monks have it pretty easy in RA with dishonorable forcing people to stay, most matches will be won by the team with healing.

I believe RR was only a problem in HB because it didn't have the dishonorable system in place, allowing people to quit and rejoin faster than playing the match.

there was RR to a lesser extent in TA as well....

playing as a kurz one time in AB I said "happy RR day" and 6 people resigned it was funny...

Winning 25 straight isn't a problem for me. It's just a matter of luck in finding a monk, and two competent & solid dps'ers (mesmers, necros, Rts, and *sighs* yes even melee... despite all the current onslaught of melee hate occurring in RA -.-). I don't agree with the scale, but I do believe in rewarding effort per ten battles. Earning a glad point for entering 10 times is a nice way to keep players interested in continuing. And sure, botters will bot as they always do, but hey... if players don't report, they'll LOL afk til they hit the max tier anyhow. I've seen several botters reach rank 4 and 5 before they were ever dealt with, and every time I was assigned to a team with a bot, I'd point to him and ask everyone to report him. And what did the players do when I ping him like twenty million times in the span of a second, flooding team chat? "Who's botting?" or "How do you know?" or "lol" *continues hacking/slashing til they win or lose, thus feeding the botter faction and wins*. It's the players' fault for not /reporting the botter accepting that bull$h!t.

I think that a better approach for fixing RA would be to make the random team generator search for one healer, and cap it at that. No one wants to endure 2+ monk teams because we all know very well they won't /resign over half the time. Either that, or simply assign the /resign function to nullify all faction aquisition, and dishonor points alloted through abuse of the function by other players. Example: I enter a match and find nothing but bad players. I type /resign after the counter and forfeit all faction earned so that I cannot be acused of "leeching", which always seems to be the popular selection among /report-abusers. All dishonor points assigned to me in that by abusers becomes nullified. So win or lose, I can be able to continue playing without being impeded by other players and their abuse.

Also, I think that nerfing blind would help bring balance back for meleers. I see alot of players using my avatar as their primary elite in over half the battles. I've even come across two of them in one team, and they even LOL and brag to me about how they've been winning so much. It's pretty sad that even with condition removals like M.Touch or Antidote Signet, you still wind up getting raped by them in RA. *meh*

Agreed. Also the point about removing the cap on consecutive wins is ridiculous. Its just a recipe for synced teams to move up entire glad ranks in a day. Seriously if this was implemented everyone will max the title out in two-four months making a complete fiasco of the format.

/unsigned

...and if you're not a good monk you need to be lucky to be getting on a good team for points. Maybe we should just change RA to MA then?


OT
I like the idea, but you're scaling the numbers a bit too high towards 20 and 25 wins- that's almost r3 in one go. Change the numbers and I won't have a problem with it.

/signed

Seeing as the PvP titles will be pretty meaningless once GW2 comes out, I am all for this. This will also give players a chance to get the Gladiator Statue in their Hall of Monuments for transfer to a Legacy character in GW2. I really like this idea. I am having a hard enough time as it is finding reason to continue playing GW1. You bring good things to the table dude.

/signed.

You realize that all of the current title breakpoints and points are being multiplied by ten in this suggestion, right? A full 25 win streak will get you just 38% of the progress you need to get from zero points to r1. You'll need more ten such streaks to get to r3 from scratch.

Updated the first post to try and make this a bit more clear.

/semi-signed

Just get rid of the bonus points, and make it x7 not x10.

I have gladiador 5. I got it by being a really good RA/TA monk. WHOOPDIEDOO! If I were a warrior with the same skill level I'd have gladiator 2. Tell me how this is fair? In TA it was fair, cause everyone had a monk. In RA, my title inflates my skill level a thousand fold just because I'm a monk.

And lastly, like rank above 3 is meaningless as far as skill goes, so is gladiator above level 1. I have met some utterly terrible gladiator 7 monks. They just got it by being monks. I'd rather RA was more fun than care about crappy titles at this point. Nobody even cares about gladiator anyways, not the way they care about rank. You try to get in a rank 3 group with gladiator 6 and they'll laugh. Less leavers = good. Less farming = all the better.

No one maxed galdiator till now. This itself says the Gladiator title needs an overhaul...

the point system shouldn't increase so drasticly

what Anet should focus on. is the retarded possibility for a player to get kicked out of RA after 24 wins.

because he joined a team of 2-3 players who already have a victory before the player joined.

leaving RA after 24 wins to notice you're missing out on the bonus points is really annoying.

i'm not doing RA ever again until they fix this.

I like this idea of rewarding the individual wins but 190 points at 25 wins is a little much. I mean almost being able to reach g2 in one run seems kind of silly. If it was scaled to double the output of points that would be cool.

How about,
*1 consecutive win=1 point
*4 consecutive wins=1 point
*7 consecutive wins=2 points
*10 consecutive wins=3 points
*13 consecutive wins=4 points
*16 consecutive wins=5 points
*19 consecutive wins=6 points
*22 consecutive wins=7 points
*25 consecutive wins=8 points

total=37 points

This seems more realistic to me than 190 points.

TA was good but only if everyone on your team was strong, and you didn't face shove spikes that knew how to play (they can usually be beaten but the good ones do luck out sometimes).

... in order to change player behavior in RA (the everpresent leeching/botting/leaving/griefing/etc.)

But from what I've read in this thread, the players that already have high ranks "feel" that this compromises the "value" of the title.

So, if re-working glad point system gain were to occur, then I'd simultaneously recommend a different type of rescaling: only change the TOP END SCALE to make it linear (say above R7 for example) so that the gain between levels is only about 7.5k points per level. Leave the non-linear growth rate for early titles ALONE. That way, players with either low OR high ranks gain SIMILAR benefit from the increased glad point opportunity. Hopefully, no one will feel that an existing rank category will reap an UNFAIR benefit toward MAXING the Title. Under this type of scaling, players would have a harder time going from r7 to r8 to r9 than they do today, but have an easier time going from r10 to r11 to r12 than they do today. Of course the inevitable could occur for someone that is currently r9 being reassigned to r7 (or something akin to that), but progression BACK up to r9 would be faster.

There is just NO single answer that satisfies ALL parties simultaneously.

Ultimately, I think the only viable suggestion is to just increase the balth reward for staying through the and of the match & incorporate an "aggressiveness" type of mechanic into the balth gain. Maybe that would finally discourage monks, E-denial, interrupters, & degenners from playing the game, Since that type of play is NOT considered "aggressive". Think about it, if monks had little incentive to gain balth (and by extension play for the added reward of increased balth) so that fewer monks actually played RA, then players would have less incentive to leave if they don't have a monk on thier team (cause there would be a lower probablity of gettin a monk on your team)... right?

or better yet, just BAN monk primaries from RA

LOL-JK on the very last part...

You have misread my post. r2 is going to be at 2000 points after my proposed change.

IMHO the only thing that needs changed is the reward system, not the title scale. I still think a reward scale that looks like this would be the answer.



If this reward system was implemented everyone would benefit. Maybe not this exact one I'm posting but something similar. The only issue i see is maybe 1 point for 1 win. This would reduce the "value" of the title if the title scale remained the same.

So something closer to this might be better and not necessarily require a title scale change.