Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
a well programmed AHK bot can do compared to the Mo/W's.
|
Advanced Mo/W Bots in RA
AtomicMew
Regulus X
A bigger problem than identifying bots:
ACTUALLY REPORTING THEM.
Countless are the players I've seen in RA that've turned a blind eye and LOLOLOL'd while they hacked & slashed through matches while simultaneously feeding a known bot. I've reported countless SF ele bots and asked the rest to follow suit (back when they were around by the dozens), and yet they would always say, "lolwut?", "how do you know?", "Who's botting?" (after having flooded team chat with the name of the botter) *ignores alert and continues hacking & slashing*, etc... etc...
...so it's the player's fault more than anyone else that botters still around and plaguing RA, and other areas.
ACTUALLY REPORTING THEM.
Countless are the players I've seen in RA that've turned a blind eye and LOLOLOL'd while they hacked & slashed through matches while simultaneously feeding a known bot. I've reported countless SF ele bots and asked the rest to follow suit (back when they were around by the dozens), and yet they would always say, "lolwut?", "how do you know?", "Who's botting?" (after having flooded team chat with the name of the botter) *ignores alert and continues hacking & slashing*, etc... etc...
...so it's the player's fault more than anyone else that botters still around and plaguing RA, and other areas.
Sankt Hallvard
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Regulus X
A bigger problem than identifying bots:
ACTUALLY REPORTING THEM. |
I get reported a lot, yet I never bot or leech. And I never report anyone myself, that only ends up with dishonorable hex for me. Besides the idea of people reporting each other is so far from a civil society it disgusts me. Nazi-germany is SO 1940.
Elephantaliste
If you consider botting acceptable, never reporting them makes sense... but not everyone agree on that.
That doesn't mean they are kids, fascist, racist or whatever...
That doesn't mean they are kids, fascist, racist or whatever...
Paradise Lost
There was a botting ranger in our team in RA just now. He rupted the enemy warriors dev hammer 3 times in a row, causing the warrior to obviously call out that he was using a bot and that he would send a screenshot to Anet. He never reported the bot ingame, as there wasn't enough time before the end of the match i assume.
I assume if someone gets reported for botting, it doesn't show up in the chat like being reported for leeching does?
Ive very rarely ever seen anyone get banned at all, there are loads of times when screenshots have been taken, in gvg of bots, and posted on forums especially QQ. Even the poster states they have sent the screenshot to Anet. But the botter never gets banned and it still botting the next week.
So how effective is actually reporting them in the first place i wonder? Both ingame report, and screenshot sending?? Not very good at all i think. Whats your views?
I assume if someone gets reported for botting, it doesn't show up in the chat like being reported for leeching does?
Ive very rarely ever seen anyone get banned at all, there are loads of times when screenshots have been taken, in gvg of bots, and posted on forums especially QQ. Even the poster states they have sent the screenshot to Anet. But the botter never gets banned and it still botting the next week.
So how effective is actually reporting them in the first place i wonder? Both ingame report, and screenshot sending?? Not very good at all i think. Whats your views?
RiceCream
I think the interrupt bots are more of an issue than this monk bot as they negatively affect overall gameplay. the only time i've complained about having a monk on my RA team is when i am a monk, plus the interrupt bot is used in ha, gvg and ra.
Animate
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jarge
Rupt bots are easy to fake-out.
|
Increasing bots appearing in an online game has always been one of the first sure signs of the game dying for good.
drunknzelda
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Animate
Increasing bots appearing in an online game has always been one of the first sure signs of the game dying for good.
|
Of course, this is several years ago so I'm not entirely sure of anything.
lishi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by drunknzelda
How about the trollfarm bots outside of Droknar during the first months of GW? I believe there were monk bots for UW aswell, from before the Prot Bond nerf.
Of course, this is several years ago so I'm not entirely sure of anything. |
Normal player where staying away from the for fear of bans, now you see even people running on their main account bots for title.
Just watching the number of chestrunner bot in boreal station make me want stop to go for the title (or bot myself)
Kopa The Demon King
I say we all play a rousing game called BOT OR NOT and just report the guys ourselves, its about all thatll be done about it anyways. You can count it as botting and you cvan count it as leeching seeing as the player isnt doing anything, just report for both, and be done with it.
Martin Alvito
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by lishi
While mass ban will not exactly resolve the situation they are needed, sure you will need something other then just bans to fix the problem. Like in real life you will need both the carrot(incentive to honest citizen) and the stick(prison) the same you will need on the virtual world.
|
Enforcing an anti-bot regime has large opportunity costs. It requires personnel that could be doing other productive things. Redesign, however, carries much smaller opportunity costs relative to the prospective benefits. You just need a programmer to implement a specific fix once. The enforcement regime requires constant attention.
This is another major reason why attacking the problem from the incentive side is much more effective. Not only do you institute a permanent solution, but the labor costs of that solution are lower.
Unfortunately, it's obvious that Marketing runs ANet, and as a result many sensible solutions never make it onto the table because Marketing has some bad preconceptions about what people actually want.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Elephantaliste
If you consider botting acceptable, never reporting them makes sense... but not everyone agree on that.
|
The /report system has always been a terrible idea that clearly was instituted by someone that never took a basic course in economics. The data that you will get from a voluntary reporting system like that is going to stink for a variety of reasons.
lishi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
This argument does not imply that the societal costs from enforcing the law are greater than the societal gains from enforcing the law for any given law.
Enforcing an anti-bot regime has large opportunity costs. It requires personnel that could be doing other productive things. Redesign, however, carries much smaller opportunity costs relative to the prospective benefits. You just need a programmer to implement a specific fix once. The enforcement regime requires constant attention. |
For example you could say that the reward xxx will be only available to people who complete a mission. Clearly since anything can be h/h you could design a bot to help a h/h team to complete the mission. It won't be fast as a normal player, but since the bot dont sleep it eventually will surpass the real player.
Kattar
DO NOT MENTION THE NAMES OF ANY BOTS.
How do you not get this by now? HOW?
How do you not get this by now? HOW?
Karate Jesus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kattar
DO NOT MENTION THE NAMES OF ANY BOTS.
How do you not get this by now? HOW? |
Removing posts that have those names is asinine, considering that most GW players who would bot know them by now.
I could list a few sites that host the bots and how many downloads they've regularly had, but that would be inappropriate. Let's just say....it's a lot.
Kattar
Quote:
| If you type those names into a search, you wouldn't be able to easily find any specific GW bots. |
List nothing specifically. Nothing.
If you'd like to discuss this further, pm me. Otherwise, I see no need to address this again.
Nekodesu
This isn't just in RA, this happened to me in JQ.
The monk would follow me around, as a henchman/hero would. It would heal me when I sacrificed health, it would heal my minions. It never pre anything but it was definitly a bot. Not many days since this happened and me and another person reported it.
The monk would follow me around, as a henchman/hero would. It would heal me when I sacrificed health, it would heal my minions. It never pre anything but it was definitly a bot. Not many days since this happened and me and another person reported it.
Martin Alvito
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by lishi
But redesign won't be enough, no matter how you can redisign, a competent bot will be more efficient then a normal player.
|
If you set up a regime that legitimately rewards skill > time (as the game was advertised, and to some extent originally was), then there is no reason to bot. The key point is that you cannot reward repetition of tasks. Any time you do that, there is an incentive to bot. If every goal is a one-off (with nested goals for doing the same task faster, for instance), then designing a bot isn't worth the time investment needed to design it.
It's harder to design a PvP regime that does not reward botting, because the game would have to be sufficiently strategic that flawless execution confers no advantage. That really isn't what the PvP crowd wants, at the end of the day.
BlackSephir
The sad part is that a quick look at what these bots do tells me they're better monks than 90% of monks in RA.
Turbo Ginsu
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BlackSephir
The sad part is that a quick look at what these bots do tells me they're better monks than 90% of monks in RA.
|
I for one am passionately anti-bot, have never used a bot in any game, ever, have had entire clans destroyed just by the accusation.
-However- Zahr's last few posts, just as an example, point out that not botting in a logical world, is, well, illogical. Regardless, I still won't bot, but it really does champ my ass to see that aNet don't give a redresign ass about it. That is hands down just SG.
Kattar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Might want to delete the posts linking to the related website then ^ ^
|
So...
purple chocolat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cantalus
i don't understand why people want to gain things by cheating, some sort of pathetic peer group stand around together emoting?
|
people are lazy ..
a game is meant for fun. if One likes to have fun by showing off titles or items and One is lazy, then One will bot to get his titles/items to be able to show them off.
Also, i bet some people bot so they can sell gold/ectos/whatever on internet for real cash.
fortior
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
That just isn't true. GW rewards time > skill. In that regime, you are correct that bots win.
If you set up a regime that legitimately rewards skill > time (as the game was advertised, and to some extent originally was), then there is no reason to bot. The key point is that you cannot reward repetition of tasks. Any time you do that, there is an incentive to bot. If every goal is a one-off (with nested goals for doing the same task faster, for instance), then designing a bot isn't worth the time investment needed to design it. It's harder to design a PvP regime that does not reward botting, because the game would have to be sufficiently strategic that flawless execution confers no advantage. That really isn't what the PvP crowd wants, at the end of the day. |
spun ducky
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by fortior
I think that GW2 will prevent botting not by pure coding but by randomness and dynamic events. You can't really bot an open world with random events and random other players, nor can you bot an instance that changes every time. However if there is a little amount of randomness botting would still be possible (Courier Falken now). Maybe a system that puts trees and rocks in peoples' paths?
|
fortior
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by spun ducky
This will make it tougher but not near impossible as there are plenty of bots that can handle random changes in terrain and dijkstra's algorithm comes to mind as one of the many ways to optimize the navigation through waypoints.
|
Anyhow a system where rewards are tied to story would be nice, no more farming = no more farming bots.
Martin Alvito
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by fortior
I think that GW2 will prevent botting not by pure coding but by randomness and dynamic events. You can't really bot an open world with random events and random other players, nor can you bot an instance that changes every time. However if there is a little amount of randomness botting would still be possible (Courier Falken now). Maybe a system that puts trees and rocks in peoples' paths?
|
Irrespective of that, the mechanism you refer to cannot solve the problem of PvP botting.
A11Eur0
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
sup botter. |
His point was that the OP witnessed this bot in action then took advantage of it to get 25 consecutives. Afterwards he came to guru and complained. Probably because he couldn't get into a group with a bot monk the rest of the day.
Rikimaru
Far more than the fact that a lot of people are using bots to completely automate PvP, I think it disturbs me to know that it's possible to completely and effectively automate a character in PvP.
That really puts into perspective for me how shallow this game's combat is...
That really puts into perspective for me how shallow this game's combat is...
Martin Alvito
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rikimaru
Far more than the fact that a lot of people are using bots to completely automate PvP, I think it disturbs me to know that it's possible to completely and effectively automate a character in PvP.
That really puts into perspective for me how shallow this game's combat is... |
For perspective, it's a lot better than combat in other MMOs. The underlying issue that's driving PvP botting is that flawless disruption, timing and movement are disproportionately rewarded in GW combat.
The Josip
Kattar really annoys me. Good thing is when I close the forum he is gone.
axe
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
That's the smartest post I've seen in a while.
For perspective, it's a lot better than combat in other MMOs. The underlying issue that's driving PvP botting is that flawless disruption, timing and movement are disproportionately rewarded in GW combat. |
Same thing happened with the Tease Hero template, it could tip a battle when it would rupt Infuse causing teams to crumble. That was with just Tease. Now if you had a player that was so flawless at interrupting they might load up more on the rupts, which is what the bots were doing 7 rupts on the bar, no human player would do that because interrupting flawlessly (the key skills on the key players) is not supposed to be easy. But when its scripted, interupt x,y,z skills... thats the main prob.
Glad to see these people banned though.
ShaneOfMach
Oh wow, a bot like this actually exists?
I always thought that it was ridiculous for a Mo/W to have the reflexes of using balanced stance just right before I could get my Coward/Shock off on them, now it kind of makes sense.
I always thought that it was ridiculous for a Mo/W to have the reflexes of using balanced stance just right before I could get my Coward/Shock off on them, now it kind of makes sense.