Offcourse I knew what I was doing. I am a reasonably smart person with an IQ over 110. I did not buy a tome thinking I was buying a red iris flower.
Isn't that the intire premise of a trade, knowing what you're buying?
Getting all Elite skills was pre-NF impossible. (When skill hunter was still a single title). Therefore, everyone who has max skill hunter title nowadays hacked the game?
I wanted to get LS and LDoA, as did many other people. To get LDoA, the place to be is Pre-Searing. Tomes got publically released, and according to Anet's very own policy, aswell as Gaile's statements and an official fansite believings, they did not seem to be the product of a bannable exploit.
This wasn't a lousy policy, this was a very clear policy:
We do NOT ban for exploited items in Pre-Searing.
Yet one week later they change it around. Then it became lousy. Before the policy, I did not break a single rule. After the policy I did not break a single rule either, cuz I immediatly remove the character from Pre-Searing.
Nowhere over the course of this run did I break the rules.
Many other people bought the same items. Used the same items, and up to this very day, atleast 20 people still have Pre-Searing characters with items and elite skills on them. They didn't get banned. Anet clearly doesn't care too much about them, but they do about me? How is that not getting singled out?
LS and LDoA is acount wide, aswell as not being a breach of the EULA, therefore can't be grounds of a permanent ban. They could have stripped the titles, stripped the character or deleted it. Instead they perm banned when they knew I dind't hack the game. This is what bothered me all along.
Policy and morallity on exploited items
Killed u man
DoomFrost
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Killed u man
Having both titles is not a breach of the EULA. Therefore they can't be the ground for banning me. Otherwise, they might as well have said that they banned me for having a green garden. (Which is just as redicilous)
And even if this was the intire issue, why wasn't the character deleted? If they knew I dind't hack the game, but rather the titles were the issue, why did they ban me for abusing an exploit? Shouldn't they have banned me for having LS and LDoA? Shouldn't they have simple removed the character or titles? That seemed a far drastic measure for something that wasn't against the EULA |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rules of Conduct, Section 19
You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars.
|
Voodoo Rage
BTW, to a lot of the people getting indignant about his titles, there are many titles in this game that are current being achieved via exploits. Cartographer's use teleportation exploits. People had runners take them through EOTN dungeons. People accumulated Luxon faction while AFK and utilizing an exploit in Zos Shivros channel. People fill HM books by flagging heroes in unspawned areas in EOTN missions. Those are KNOWN exploits. Should those people all be banned a year from now?
Malice Black
Anyone with post items in pre is a cheat. All should be perma banned.
Killed u man
Quote:
| You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars. |
Every person who ever body blocked PvE creatures against a wall should get perma banned.
Every person who ever abused an PvP gimmick which was unforseen should get perma banned.
I'm really sorry, but I can not live with the fact that that is a valid ground to ban me...
Quote:
| Anyone with post items in pre is a cheat. All should be perma banned. |
Quote:
| People accumulated Luxon faction while AFK and utilizing an exploit in Zos Shivros channel. People fill HM books by flagging heroes in unspawned areas in EOTN missions. Those are KNOWN exploits. Should those people all be banned a year from now? |
Divine Ashes
Regardless of if he knowingly bought a post-searing item in pre-searing or not, the fact of the matter is that it wasn't necessarily illegal at that time. It was an exploit, but one, for all he knew, Anet knew and did nothing about, so it was okay. The fact that they perma-banned him AFTER it was made illegal and AFTER he did the act is wrong on Anet's part (if this is indeed how this happened).
Give him his account back. You can't ban somebody retroactively for doing something that wasn't illegal at the time.
Give him his account back. You can't ban somebody retroactively for doing something that wasn't illegal at the time.
Killed u man
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Divine Ashes
Regardless of if he knowingly bought a post-searing item in pre-searing or not, the fact of the matter is that it wasn't necessarily illegal at that time. It was an exploit, but one, for all he knew, Anet knew and did nothing about, so it was okay. The fact that they perma-banned him AFTER it was made illegal and AFTER he did the act is wrong on Anet's part (if this is indeed how this happened).
Give him his account back. You can't ban somebody retroactively for doing something that wasn't illegal at the time. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Official Wiki
About a year ago, we briefly introduced a bug that allowed players from Pre-Searing to travel to their guild halls and back. We quickly fixed this bug. Since players may not have understood that it was a bug, we didn't ban anyone for taking advantage of it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Gaile Gray on presearing.com
Tomes were not in the game during the period where the Guild Hall glitch was in place. Tomes have an undue influence on one's ability to attain a very difficult and much-sought-after title. That's why tomes are a focus.
You will notice that we are not banning people who have tomes. We are requiring that they move any tome-influenced characters out of Pre-Searing, and we're requiring that they destroy the tomes. That seems fair, really, considering that some have asked for an immediate ban of any account that has post-searing skills or tomes. |
If we can't trust Anet Staff to follow their own rules, who can we trust?
gone
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
I have apologized (For something I didn't do)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Offcourse I knew what I was doing
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lemming
Killed u man
Don't quote things out of context. It's a sad way to make an arguement.
I apologized for hacking the game with the sole intention of trying to get unbanned, despite not hacing hacked in the first place.
I knew what I was doing when I bought a tome. Do you not know what you're doing when you're buying an ecto?
I knew I was buying a tome which would get me LS and LDoA, something which is NOT against the EULA. Obviously I dind't know the item was the result of an bannable exploit.
@ Lemming,
Yeah, thats pretty much what they did, but that's not something I can live with. If I get banned for that reason, them changing their rules to ban random ppl as they see fit, I will not give up.
And I don't think there should be any disagreement on the fact that that simply is wrong. This could happen to anyone at any time.
I apologized for hacking the game with the sole intention of trying to get unbanned, despite not hacing hacked in the first place.
I knew what I was doing when I bought a tome. Do you not know what you're doing when you're buying an ecto?
I knew I was buying a tome which would get me LS and LDoA, something which is NOT against the EULA. Obviously I dind't know the item was the result of an bannable exploit.
@ Lemming,
Yeah, thats pretty much what they did, but that's not something I can live with. If I get banned for that reason, them changing their rules to ban random ppl as they see fit, I will not give up.
And I don't think there should be any disagreement on the fact that that simply is wrong. This could happen to anyone at any time.
Septeric
rut row...
according to that link...
Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution.
ArenaNet General Contact Information
http://www.arena.net/contact/
Mailing Address:
ArenaNet, Inc.
227 Bellevue Way NE #75
Bellevue, WA 98004
*shrugs
according to that link...
Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution.
ArenaNet General Contact Information
http://www.arena.net/contact/
Mailing Address:
ArenaNet, Inc.
227 Bellevue Way NE #75
Bellevue, WA 98004
*shrugs
Voodoo Rage
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Anyone with post items in pre is a cheat. All should be perma banned.
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gone
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
I apologized for hacking the game with the sole intention of trying to get unbanned, despite not hacing hacked in the first place.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
I knew I was buying a tome which would get me LS and LDoA, something which is NOT against the EULA.[/B] Obviously I dind't know the item was the result of an bannable exploit.
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Ninja Ninja
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
Every time I do the missions Against the Charr and Curse of the Norn Bear by dying and then flagging my heroes through the whole mission map with no enemies spawning at all; I am willfully cheating. Should all speedbookers by permanently banned too?
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Sir Cusfreak
If I was ANET I wouldn't stop at a permaban...I'd delete the damn account, whilst smiling, and likely humming a happy little tune. And as for the guy who reported you? I will HAPPILY pay him the 100k he was trying to blackmail you for, still, right now, because his actions got you gone from the game. Exploiters are scum, and deserve to be gone. ALL of them. Personally, I'd delete every account that's ever been tainted by your IP as well. ANET won't do it, but they should.
Does this answer your OP question about a general standpoint on this issue? Because I can elaborate if needed...
also: @Voodoo Rage: yes. without a doubt.
Does this answer your OP question about a general standpoint on this issue? Because I can elaborate if needed...
also: @Voodoo Rage: yes. without a doubt.
Voodoo Rage
Quote:
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Originally Posted by flubber
not my fault. yours. As an adult, I don't apologize for things I don't do. That is the act of a guilty or desperate person, of which I am neither.
too bad. you should have contacted support before pulling off your premeditated exploit. |
Voodoo Rage
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja
Your not playing the game right and you know it.
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makafri
is just common sense... how moving your character to post/searing fix what you have done before???
Killed u man
@ Flubber:
Let's see if you won't apologize for stuff you dind't do after getting your acount which costed over 120 euros, aswell as over 7K hours played on, banned and struggling with support for over a year.
Premeditated exploit? Could you please read the thread, instead of trying to up your post count.
What vodoo says is pretty much right. What happened to me is pretty much what he describes. Tomorrow, Anet changes their policy into: "Anyone who abuses a portal glitch gets permabanned".
Watch how many people would agree with that. They wouldn't, and I don't. I did something which was perfectly legal. I did something which Gaile specifically said could not get you banned. Maybe it was in the greyzone, but that doesn't matter, because Gaile said it was A-OK. I got banned when the policy changed. There is nothing I could have done to prevent this from happening.
I did not "premediatedly" broke the rules...
Let's see if you won't apologize for stuff you dind't do after getting your acount which costed over 120 euros, aswell as over 7K hours played on, banned and struggling with support for over a year.
Premeditated exploit? Could you please read the thread, instead of trying to up your post count.
What vodoo says is pretty much right. What happened to me is pretty much what he describes. Tomorrow, Anet changes their policy into: "Anyone who abuses a portal glitch gets permabanned".
Watch how many people would agree with that. They wouldn't, and I don't. I did something which was perfectly legal. I did something which Gaile specifically said could not get you banned. Maybe it was in the greyzone, but that doesn't matter, because Gaile said it was A-OK. I got banned when the policy changed. There is nothing I could have done to prevent this from happening.
I did not "premediatedly" broke the rules...
Septeric
Quote:
| Every time I do the missions Against the Charr and Curse of the Norn Bear by dying and then flagging my heroes through the whole mission map with no enemies spawning at all; I am willfully cheating. Should all speedbookers by permanently banned too? |
Quote:
| I knew I was buying a tome which would get me LS and LDoA, something which is NOT against the EULA. |
if i am taught to walk a path from point A to B by doing 3... 90 degree turns.. then realize i can walk a straight line. instead... is the change in routine an offense worthy of absolution?
Ninja Ninja
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
Yes, I am absolutely aware of that. Should all speedbookers be banned then?
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fires element
i read your interaction with gaile and think i have a decent grasp on what happened. you admitted you bought a tome strictly for the purpose of getting LDoA and LS on the same character because no one else had it. i assume you had played the game long enough to know that tomes did not drop in pre-searing, so you had to know that the item in question was brought there by an exploit no other way around that. and i may be wrong but tomes only drop in hard mode which doesn't exist in pre so there is no way possible for it to have been a drop. so you have already knowingly bought an exploited item with the intention of getting 2 titles that are listed as mutally exclusive. that being said i have no sympathy for you since you knowingly bought the tome with the intention of breaking the rules and getting 2 titles on the same character that there was no other way of doing than other than cheating
gone
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
Now your just being a troll. As I mentioned, there are many exploits in this game being currently utilized to complete missions via bugs, characters to areas they have not unlocked on their own, etc... Half of them are listed right on the wikipedia page. I suppose to should contact support next time I try to get another consulate docks ferry...
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~I knew the gun was loaded, but didn't know it killed.
Arduin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Policy changes: Gaile releases the new info regarding these items. I move my character to post Searing straight away. (Could have been a few days before or after, don't remember exactly)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Yet one week later they change it around. Then it became lousy. Before the policy, I did not break a single rule. After the policy I did not break a single rule either, cuz I immediatly remove the character from Pre-Searing..
|
You didn't tell us the entire story in the beginning of the thread, I'm wondering if there is more to come.
QueenofDeath
I guess the OP doesn't know about if you buy "stolen" property you become an "accomplice" to the crime. He should have thought "if it's too good to be true it's usually a SCAM or a CRIME or an EXPLOIT....therefore I have no symphathy and his ban should remain in effect permanently. 
)
)
Killed u man
Flubber,
You're suggesting everyone in PvP who ever bodyblocked (Aka try to desync an enemy player by stepping in front of him) should get perma banned?
People who bodyblock ghostly, and thus abuse his AI (Exploit) should get banned?
What about people who Z-Axis drop a flag on certain GvG maps, should they not get banned?
What about a person who buys an item of which Anet said buying it wouldn't get you banned?
Those are all scenario's in which people "knowingly" (as you like to call it) enter a greyzone, but apperently won't get you banned. And my case is even stronger, because they specifically say they won't ban for it.
You're talking about being an adult, and everyone else being children when you don't even grasp the the intire impact of your own words.
@Arduin:
Let me get this straight, I bought the item before the policy changes. Let there be no doubt about that for starters. Then when Gaile released her announcement regarding these items, I had already gotten LDoA, but I don't know if I still was in Pre or not. On top of that, I also don't know if I played that exact day to log in and sear the character.
All I know is that as soon as I realized the item I bought was the result of an exploit, I tried my utter best to follow her rules. And I remember completing some ascalon missions within days after that policy change, so I definatly did not stay in Pre long after she posted it.
You're suggesting everyone in PvP who ever bodyblocked (Aka try to desync an enemy player by stepping in front of him) should get perma banned?
People who bodyblock ghostly, and thus abuse his AI (Exploit) should get banned?
What about people who Z-Axis drop a flag on certain GvG maps, should they not get banned?
What about a person who buys an item of which Anet said buying it wouldn't get you banned?
Those are all scenario's in which people "knowingly" (as you like to call it) enter a greyzone, but apperently won't get you banned. And my case is even stronger, because they specifically say they won't ban for it.
You're talking about being an adult, and everyone else being children when you don't even grasp the the intire impact of your own words.
@Arduin:
Let me get this straight, I bought the item before the policy changes. Let there be no doubt about that for starters. Then when Gaile released her announcement regarding these items, I had already gotten LDoA, but I don't know if I still was in Pre or not. On top of that, I also don't know if I played that exact day to log in and sear the character.
All I know is that as soon as I realized the item I bought was the result of an exploit, I tried my utter best to follow her rules. And I remember completing some ascalon missions within days after that policy change, so I definatly did not stay in Pre long after she posted it.
CronkTheImpaler
If this has been addressed then i digress. I noticed you started a thread on may 19, 2009 about a perma ban you received. Is this the same ban were talking about?
I say if you bought an item (tome) IN PRE for lets say..15k then you MUST have known something was not right. If you truley did all that you say then you got hosed plain and simple.
However i noticed you have started tons of threads regarding bot's hacks and other 3rd client issues. Is this just a curiousity or is there some other reason for this dubious interest?
Im just sayin...kinda ....hmmmmm
Cronk
I say if you bought an item (tome) IN PRE for lets say..15k then you MUST have known something was not right. If you truley did all that you say then you got hosed plain and simple.
However i noticed you have started tons of threads regarding bot's hacks and other 3rd client issues. Is this just a curiousity or is there some other reason for this dubious interest?
Im just sayin...kinda ....hmmmmm
Cronk
Karate Jesus
You can't use exploits to get both LDoA and Survivor on an account without people noticing. It was a poor move and you should have known better.
Even after it was published that you weren't supposed to use these items in pre, you continued to work on LDoA and Legendary Survivor. That's not ok and you got busted on it.
Give up. You cheated. You lost.
Even after it was published that you weren't supposed to use these items in pre, you continued to work on LDoA and Legendary Survivor. That's not ok and you got busted on it.
Give up. You cheated. You lost.
Coverticus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Killed U Man
It has already been posted before that I did NOT abuse an exploit. I merely bought an item. The first pary of this rule doesn't even apply to me.
|
However, what I do agree with you on is that others have not been penalised (that we/you know of). It most certainly does seem that you may have been singled out (probably because of LDOA/Survivor) but its time to draw the line, suck it up. Once ANet have made their stance, very very rarely do they overturn the decision.
Edit:
Gaile's response in the wiki thread,while a touch harsh possibly, sums it up:
Quote:
| Let me put it more simply: You cheated. Your account was closed. The end. -- Gaile 20:43, 6 May 2010 (UTC) |
Bob Slydell
If you really were innocent or deserving of a second chance you would have gotten one - which makes me believe there is more to this story then just "i got banned for unknowingly buying one exploited item" comon, arenanet has LOGS.
Jugalo Dano
I think perma banned is a bit harsh, so long as you were truly clueless as to it's legality at the time. Temp ban sure, but not permanent.
I'm betting though that it has been so long of a perma ban now that they may have removed your account info from their servers, since you said the German customer service guys were unable to look at your information.
I'm betting though that it has been so long of a perma ban now that they may have removed your account info from their servers, since you said the German customer service guys were unable to look at your information.
gone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Killed u man
Flubber,
You're suggesting everyone in PvP who ever bodyblocked (Aka try to desync an enemy player by stepping in front of him) should get perma banned? |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Killed u man
People who bodyblock ghostly, and thus abuse his AI (Exploit) should get banned?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Killed u man
What about people who Z-Axis drop a flag on certain GvG maps, should they not get banned?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Killed u man
What about a person who buys an item of which Anet said buying it wouldn't get you banned?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Killed u man
Those are all scenario's in which people "knowingly" (as you like to call it) enter a greyzone, but apperently won't get you banned. And my case is even stronger, because they specifically say they won't ban for it.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Killed u man
You're talking about being an adult, and everyone else being children when you don't even grasp the the intire impact of your own words.
|
Killed u man
Yes Cronk, that is the same ban. If you ever played in Pre-Searing, you know the prizes differ from Post-Searing. Black dyes are the main currency holder there (they ectos of pre searing so to speak) and perfect weapon (for pre standards) cost up to 100K whereas they would be completely worthless in Post-Searing.
So no, this was no "too good to be true" scenario. I don't know how much I exactly payed for the tome, but I remember it being no more than 20-50K. (because this was all I had at the time)
I also remember I bought it on PreSearing.com, so I could check my posts there to see how much I exactly paid, but that's completely besides the point.
The point is that Gaile said you wouldn't get banned for these items. And that was 7-14days after they got released. In the days leading up to her statement, people were cautious, but the general consensus was that they were alright.
So no, this was no "too good to be true" scenario. I don't know how much I exactly payed for the tome, but I remember it being no more than 20-50K. (because this was all I had at the time)
I also remember I bought it on PreSearing.com, so I could check my posts there to see how much I exactly paid, but that's completely besides the point.
The point is that Gaile said you wouldn't get banned for these items. And that was 7-14days after they got released. In the days leading up to her statement, people were cautious, but the general consensus was that they were alright.
Gift3d
you knew damn well what you were doing, you knew damn well it was a glitched over item, and now you got slapped in the face for it. given pre is crap and doesn't mean anything, you also know damn well how infested this video game is with self-righteous carebears who keep /report on ctrl+v all day.
your fault for not knowing better.
your fault for not knowing better.
Karate Jesus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jugalo Dano
I think perma banned is a bit harsh, so long as you were truly clueless as to it's legality at the time. Temp ban sure, but not permanent.
I'm betting though that it has been so long of a perma ban now that they may have removed your account info from their servers, since you said the German customer service guys were unable to look at your information. |
Come on. Using a tome to get a rez in pre? Everyone knows that's a no-no.
lohrok
Here is your problem. First I don't care if you are guilty or not, not my place to judge. but here are the facts just like in real life. If you bought something out of someone’s trunk say T.V. later that evening the police knock on your door with a warrant for purchasing stolen goods which they can and will do. Even though you did not know the T.V. was stolen you still purchased stolen property. It is a common sense thing you should know not to buy the TV out of a trunk of a car to start with.
Gabriel of Ravn
Nothing but QQ look you got caught buying an item from someone that you knew used an exploit to get that item to the area.
nembool
I have some sympathy with your situation, having been perma-banned myself (reversed in short order upon appeal due to a mistake).
Here's what I suggest:-
I don't know which country or state you live in, so cannot give you actual legal advice, but most civilised countries have consumer rights laws, which provide you with protection from unscrupulous sellers/marketers/companies. Try looking into your consumer rights and make sure you publicise your findings at each turn. If there's one thing companies hate, it's bad publicity.
All of this depends upon the veracity of your statements, which I will not address here as I have no knowledge of them.
Here's what I suggest:-
I don't know which country or state you live in, so cannot give you actual legal advice, but most civilised countries have consumer rights laws, which provide you with protection from unscrupulous sellers/marketers/companies. Try looking into your consumer rights and make sure you publicise your findings at each turn. If there's one thing companies hate, it's bad publicity.
All of this depends upon the veracity of your statements, which I will not address here as I have no knowledge of them.
Voodoo Rage
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja
Yes anyone exploiting the game should be banned.
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CronkTheImpaler
I think i see what your hammerin at here. What i was tryin to say (and not very well i guess) was that you posted about a perma ban on this very issue over a year ago. I was underthe impression this just happened within the last month?
Maybe i have the time line wayyyy off. If so i apologize. On the topic of the reg tome.. why in the name of all things holy would you buy a tome for 20-50k?? pre or not?? Also i have never seen black dyes 1000-2000% higher in pre. and thats not close to the markup on that tome you bought.
Didnt you think this is wrong or why the Frck am i payin 50k for a 1k item?
i guess it just seems kinda hinky man. this just screams "there is more to the story!!!"
Cronk
Maybe i have the time line wayyyy off. If so i apologize. On the topic of the reg tome.. why in the name of all things holy would you buy a tome for 20-50k?? pre or not?? Also i have never seen black dyes 1000-2000% higher in pre. and thats not close to the markup on that tome you bought.
Didnt you think this is wrong or why the Frck am i payin 50k for a 1k item?
i guess it just seems kinda hinky man. this just screams "there is more to the story!!!"
Cronk