I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section, if it is please just redirect it.
Anyways, after playing for a while a few years back my guild leader told me Discordway was the team to use but at the time I was utterly clueless.
Now I have started again and I looked out Discordway and started prepping and using it. After a short while on the forums I saw that it wasn't an ideal build for a physical character and many people just didn't like it for HM or Vq!
So I have been looking at people posts and I have put together an ER Prott Ele.
I was wondering. what is the best 3 Hero builds to use with my Warrior for HM and should the ER Prott be one of them?
Thanks. =]
Best 3 Hero Team for Physical Char?
raea29
Anime Divine
many people have different opinions. but id say people who dont like discord way is because it got to easy and Boooring for them. that is why they dont like it.
if you want an easy game go discord way. if you dont come back complaining here that
the game is too hard
me i finished all vanquish with discord and dual discord done most elite areas with discord/hench and dual discord. so what does that tell you.
if you want an easy game go discord way. if you dont come back complaining here that
the game is too hard
me i finished all vanquish with discord and dual discord done most elite areas with discord/hench and dual discord. so what does that tell you.
Bristlebane
I doubt heroes would use ER Prot properly unless you micro the ER.
How about Orders necro and perhaps a Para?
How about Orders necro and perhaps a Para?
raea29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Divine
me i finished all vanquish with discord and dual discord done most elite areas with discord/hench and dual discord. so what does that tell you.
So do you mind me asking the build that you used for that because I have not been able to find a very good Warrior Discord Caller.
Anime Divine
as you wish go read here http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/y...tml?t=10361973
Myotheraccount
Discord is an ugly, boring
build. That's why people don't like it.
Deadly Arts- 12
Assassin's Promise
"YMLaD!"
EVAS
"FH!"
Use with Radiant Insignia, 3x Attunement Runes and +20 energy staff.
Melee cant call Discords fast enough. This is a generic AP Caller that works with every class, use it for "perfect" spikes. Don't worry about energy because you will have more than enough to last through the entire battle.
If you just can't stand the idea of a Warrior casting stuff I suggest you run Asuran Scan and put Withering Aura on one of your necs. That way you will be able to costantly apply a Hex and a Condition to the target. Your spikes will be a little weaker because you have to run up to your targets and don't have a strong spike yourself. I also suggest running Death's Charge to reduce the time it takes to reach the mob and mess with mob AI.
That said, Spiritway is much stronger than Discord.
build. That's why people don't like it.
Deadly Arts- 12
Assassin's Promise
"YMLaD!"
EVAS
"FH!"
Use with Radiant Insignia, 3x Attunement Runes and +20 energy staff.
Melee cant call Discords fast enough. This is a generic AP Caller that works with every class, use it for "perfect" spikes. Don't worry about energy because you will have more than enough to last through the entire battle.
If you just can't stand the idea of a Warrior casting stuff I suggest you run Asuran Scan and put Withering Aura on one of your necs. That way you will be able to costantly apply a Hex and a Condition to the target. Your spikes will be a little weaker because you have to run up to your targets and don't have a strong spike yourself. I also suggest running Death's Charge to reduce the time it takes to reach the mob and mess with mob AI.
That said, Spiritway is much stronger than Discord.
Luminarus
I dont like discord because its very boring. Now I use my own sort of variation of sabway.
On my warrior I run myself with pretty mcuh watever, then I have a AotL minion bomber with aegis & prot spirit for some prots. A SoS/Resto hybrid healer with splinter weapon and ancestors rage. And a 3rd hero, usually a SS necro with MoP, Barbs, Enfeebling Blood, and Strength of Honor.
Basically using a couple of overpowered elites to supplement melee support. Hitting a target with barbs on, i usually do about 70 damage a hit. If MoP is on them it accumulates aoe really fast. Those 2 skills also synergise with the minions nicely as well.
Splinter weapon and A-Rage @ 14 channel are really nice as well, a good amount of AoE damage.
Finally, decent anti pressure from the party heals on the SoS, prots on the mm, and and optional slot on the SS which can be hex removal, condition removal or more damage depending on the area.
In areas where I need rupts I usually bring a VoR mesmer instead of the SS.
With that setup, im yet to find an area that the henchy monks cant keep me up unless I do something extremely stupid. I also then have 3 hard rezes on my henchies so i dont run out of sigs, but tbh I rarely die with that set up.
On my warrior I run myself with pretty mcuh watever, then I have a AotL minion bomber with aegis & prot spirit for some prots. A SoS/Resto hybrid healer with splinter weapon and ancestors rage. And a 3rd hero, usually a SS necro with MoP, Barbs, Enfeebling Blood, and Strength of Honor.
Basically using a couple of overpowered elites to supplement melee support. Hitting a target with barbs on, i usually do about 70 damage a hit. If MoP is on them it accumulates aoe really fast. Those 2 skills also synergise with the minions nicely as well.
Splinter weapon and A-Rage @ 14 channel are really nice as well, a good amount of AoE damage.
Finally, decent anti pressure from the party heals on the SoS, prots on the mm, and and optional slot on the SS which can be hex removal, condition removal or more damage depending on the area.
In areas where I need rupts I usually bring a VoR mesmer instead of the SS.
With that setup, im yet to find an area that the henchy monks cant keep me up unless I do something extremely stupid. I also then have 3 hard rezes on my henchies so i dont run out of sigs, but tbh I rarely die with that set up.
Frodo_lives
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team...ical_Hero_Team
Well if you want to play as a true Physical char here you go!!!!! This build rocks with a Warrior. I ran this on Ring of fire to help a guildy the other night and they where like your heroes rock dude. you get buffs to make ur self like a Spartan.
I have found that I can roll thru almost anything,
Well if you want to play as a true Physical char here you go!!!!! This build rocks with a Warrior. I ran this on Ring of fire to help a guildy the other night and they where like your heroes rock dude. you get buffs to make ur self like a Spartan.
I have found that I can roll thru almost anything,
Lysinc
Hero Spiritway
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Hero_Spiritway
Sabway
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Sabway
If you're going http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team...ical_Hero_Team, I'd suggest replacing the ER Order for an ER Protter instead and replace the protection prayers on the MB with curses such as mark of pain or barbs.
Also with Discordway as a melee, you can put succor on N/Mo for the +1 energy regen.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Hero_Spiritway
Sabway
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Sabway
If you're going http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team...ical_Hero_Team, I'd suggest replacing the ER Order for an ER Protter instead and replace the protection prayers on the MB with curses such as mark of pain or barbs.
Also with Discordway as a melee, you can put succor on N/Mo for the +1 energy regen.
Magragoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myotheraccount
build. That's why people don't like it.
Deadly Arts- 12
Assassin's Promise
"YMLaD!"
EVAS
"FH!"
Use with Radiant Insignia, 3x Attunement Runes and +20 energy staff.
Melee cant call Discords fast enough. This is a generic AP Caller that works with every class, use it for "perfect" spikes. Don't worry about energy because you will have more than enough to last through the entire battle. This is the worst advice I've seen in this thread, and some of the worst I've seen on this forum. A Warrior CANNOT grab a staff and energy runes and pretend to be a caster. More energy does not equate to energy management, and in a prolonged fight, even a Necromancer will start hitting the SR cap and may use Signet of Lost Souls to supplement their energy. A Warrior would be hopeless. It's just fact.
Look at it this ideal situation: An enemy is near death. You cast AP, then "You Move Like a Dwarf!" then "Finish Him!" to kill it off. Your 12-spec Assassin's Promise returns 17 energy. But you used 25 energy! Not only did you blow a Warrior's entire base energy, but your pitiful +2 regeneration won't allow you to maintain that pace. You've devolved to using only three skills; you won't have the energy to use the other five, and as a W/A your other options for energy management are nonexistent.
At least we agree that Discord isn't the "be-all-end-all", and that there are better ways, especially for a melee character. But to say that a warrior can run AP like a caster is to do a disservice to novices who may be reading this.
Daesu
Discordway is an old build that is more suited for a caster than a warrior in the first place. Yes, it can 'work' for a warrior since PvE is easy enough but it is not optimal especially considering the many skill buffs that happened after discordway was created.
Why warriors should not use discordway? Look at the many threads in the warrior forum. For examples:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...t10429811.html
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/d...t10434120.html
I personally use a SoS rit hero, ER prot/smite, and MM for my warrior.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...64&postcount=1
Why warriors should not use discordway? Look at the many threads in the warrior forum. For examples:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...t10429811.html
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/d...t10434120.html
I personally use a SoS rit hero, ER prot/smite, and MM for my warrior.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...64&postcount=1
raea29
Thanks for all the advice. I had read in many places that warriors should use AP and a staff but I never trusted that my energy would handle it.
If i do continue to use discord I will keep condition skills with Asuran Scan but otherwise I will look at the Physical build, Spirtway and Sabway.
Has anyone got any suggestions for the henchmen I should take with me for 6 and 8 man areas?
Thanks again. =]
If i do continue to use discord I will keep condition skills with Asuran Scan but otherwise I will look at the Physical build, Spirtway and Sabway.
Has anyone got any suggestions for the henchmen I should take with me for 6 and 8 man areas?
Thanks again. =]
Quaker
I generally use a BHA ranger, an SoS rit and an MM for heroes. If needed (depends on class/area/mode/etc.) I take 2 henchie healers and 2 other henchies which vary.
For 4 player areas I bring a healer hero instead of the BHA ranger. The healer may be an HB or HB/resto blend or healer/bonder - whatever I feel like at the time.
I like to go my own "way".
For 4 player areas I bring a healer hero instead of the BHA ranger. The healer may be an HB or HB/resto blend or healer/bonder - whatever I feel like at the time.
I like to go my own "way".
Arm
Ya, i'm not too sure about the whole AP-caller build with a melee and the whole problem with the AP-caller build is that if AP is removed your boned. I used it for a while(actually quite a few VQ's and HM stuff) with caster profs and decided after testing it's better to run other builds although it does work well, it's just kind of a pain in areas where there's lots of hex removal. In those areas u will need to bring more spammable hexes and conditions. However, if u really want to run discord on your melee I tried it with Warrior's Endurance and a couple spammable hexes/conditions and it does work ok. I was able to keep enough energy for spamming and pain invertor and ebon sin when I did it. But I still think you're better off to run spirit-way or one of the other builds suggested, in fact sabway works great with a melee because of the mop/splinter wep aoe that will get thrown around you and your targets.
Daesu
Every profession has its unique strengths and weaknesses. The warrior's weakness is its lowest energy pool and lowest energy regen of ANY other class. The problem with people trying to fit the AP builds into a warrior is that, even if you can make it work to an extent through skewing your equipment, it is just going to be inferior. Especially when compared to a caster like the necro which fits discordway much more naturally.
The strength of a warrior is its high armor, supporting builds with AoE damage (e.g. Splinter Weapon) would work better and it allows the warrior to actually play like a warrior and hold aggro.
You get better results by adapting your heroes around each character whom they serve, rather than adapting all your characters around one generic heroway build.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/3...t10434770.html
The strength of a warrior is its high armor, supporting builds with AoE damage (e.g. Splinter Weapon) would work better and it allows the warrior to actually play like a warrior and hold aggro.
You get better results by adapting your heroes around each character whom they serve, rather than adapting all your characters around one generic heroway build.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/3...t10434770.html
Reformed
Learn how to corner block and micro your heroes and you can run basically whatever you want.
Myotheraccount
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magragoc
There are no prolonged fights with these kind of H/H builds. They are imba as hell. You need to enlarge your energy pool so it lasts these fights.
Quote:
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Look at it this ideal situation: An enemy is near death. You cast AP, then "You Move Like a Dwarf!" then "Finish Him!" to kill it off. Your 12-spec Assassin's Promise returns 17 energy. But you used 25 energy! Not only did you blow a Warrior's entire base energy, but your pitiful +2 regeneration won't allow you to maintain that pace. You've devolved to using only three skills; you won't have the energy to use the other five, and as a W/A your other options for energy management are nonexistent.
No thats a badly theorycrafted situation. It shows that instead of spiking you are wanding. =/ You don't wait until the target is at low HP just to start off the chain. You cast AP > "YMLaD!" > mash hotkeys linked to Discord > finish off with "FH!". EVAS is only required at the start of the battle. Quote:
Thanks, I didn't expect a be all and end all answer otherwise it would have been found, I wanted peoples honest opinions.
Quote:
OP asked for a Warrior Discord caller build. I gave him the two options; either to run an AP caller or a melee-orientated Asuran Scan variants. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. In the end Discord is largely overrated IMO especially if you want to exploit physical damage of your character.
Yes you did provide me with what I asked and you explain it as well. Thanks for expanding my options by a few.Can a Warrior run AP? of course, it's the nature of the game. But you take that build into Slaver's, or go vanquish Joko's Domain. If you finish at all, I can guarantee that your team was carrying you. |
Quote: At least we can agree on that last point, but if a newish player comes here asking for advice, we owe it to the community to give them good advice, not just what they ask for. So yes, you did the OP a disservice. Absolutely not. Discord performs best with the AP caller. There is no other build that can call at the same pace and single-handedly dish out as much spike damage. With the right setup yellows can peform well enough with that build. I included that equipment in my post. There are other options which I have also mentioned. But, as a whole, Discord is meh with Yellows.
So here's the truth; Warriors are fine with AP caller. It's up for the OP to fiddle with the options and determine what's best for him. No disservice there.
Let me correct you, I don't listen to tools. If someone provides me with a valid, well written reason to why any of my statements are incorrect or that the setups I currently play with should be changed then I will listen. Unfortunately vast majority of people that frequent these boards argue with me simply for the sake of it. There are two dominant reasons to why this happens: People are fanboys that believe that only one build or mechanic is a pinnacle of all the Guilwor when in reality, there are many. Those includes melee-based builds, SR, ER Prots and of course Discord. For Christ’s sake realise for once that we are no longer in Sabway era when far less skills were so powercreeped. We got many more options now all of which have their strengths and weaknesses. That derives from the second reason which is that people are tools that get used by certain ignorant members of the community with big e-creds that don't even appear in this game anymore. That's why we see people bashing PvX, bashing Anet, bashing anything really without clear understanding of why they are bashing it apart from that some e-god did that too at some point. Good examples include Daesu who, for a reason I don't know nor care about, went as far as derailing several threads in an attempt to definitively prove me wrong but in the end not even come close to it. That's who you are now. You got pissed because I suggested Warrior AP caller which contradicts the way that class is commonly viewed and now unleashing your vengeance on me across this entire thread. No reason you could clearly explain, it simply contradicted popular belief.
You try to validate your argument with poor theorycrafting throughout several of your post. It's poor and it does not depict a realistic situation. Let me break it down so it's easier to understand:
Quote:
The enemy was close to death, the warrior was at full energy, and his three skill chain killed it without fear of hex removal. What was the result? He blew most of his energy, and didn't recover enough to be effective.
Two things wrong with this. AP caller does not normally wait for the target to reach critical condition to unleash his chain. AP and YMLaD! is cast at the beginning of the fight and FH! as a finisher. EVAS is sometimes used in-between. This means that realistically, the only time AP caller uses his chain on a near dead target is well into the fight when most foes are severely damaged by exploding minions, degen and hexes. On such foes, normally only AP > FH! will be used since they are below 50% hp. Not counting energy regen that 15 energy out of which you get 17 returned to you with AP. Targets normally reach this condition very early into the fight although it depends on pulls and your target choice. So, no, Warrior didn't blow all his energy and performed quite well actually.
You try to validate your argument with poor theorycrafting throughout several of your post. It's poor and it does not depict a realistic situation. Let me break it down so it's easier to understand:
Quote:
Quote: That's not taking into account EVAS, or you know....the other four skills he'll have. Those three skills alone will drain his energy to nothing quickly, leaving him to wand. A lot. I normally wouldn’t take EVAS into account either. You see, it is only required to cast it at the start of the fight to gain more damage and reach the point at which the mob starts wiping quicker and gain protection from extra meatshields. That means it is cast maybe once or twice per fight. Four other skills you take are unimportant and normally aren’t being cast at all. They normally include res and various backup hexes and conditions.
Quote:
No you just misunderstood me. Imagine a realistic scenario where apart from your spikes there are also Minions, DN, degen, hexes and henchies dealing damage. So you end up targetting foes that have taken quite allot of damage already. Logical thing will be to simple AP > "FH!" them because even including "YMLaD!" into the mix will be pointless waste of energy.
Quote:
Quote: A Warrior with full Radiant Insignias, two Attunement runes, and a +20 energy staff will have 57 energy. At first glance, that seems impressive, but more energy does not equal energy management. In your example, you only open with AP and YMLaD, and as long as those are the only two skills you use, you're going to be gaining energy. But you should be doing more than just that. A Warriors two pips of energy regen can't keep up, so you'll watch your energy bar drain quickly, and you have nothing to fall back on, except stop casting and just using AP until you've gotten enough to start using FH!. I am aware of that. But, you only need enough energy to last you through the fight and that ammount is more than enough. If you play AP Caller right like I have provided examples of above then the energy you get from AP will be more than sufficient.
Quote: If your fight has gotten to the point that you're going Ap > FH! and the enemy is dead, the fight's already over, and you're not really making a meaningful contribution. Exactly. The fight is over very fast. In a blink of an eye youre already doing AP > "YMLaD!" > "FH!" and then AP > "FH!" meaning that the energy consumption is far less than what you believe it to be.
Quote:
It's hard to accurately discribe a realistic situation with simple maths. There are so many variables imo. Maybe I'm wrong. But yes, sad thing is that with builds such as Discord and Spiritway you don't do much to kill foes yourself. I wouldn't call that nothing though. That's why people run these builds, they are effortless.|
Theorycrafting? Maybe. I'd never waste the runes, or my time to actually run a warrior with this crap. Inaccurate? Certainly not. Any area you take this build into you're going to be a drain on your team, carried through it all.
Youre not supposed to use that Warrior AP Caller with players. I have been proving your theorycrafting to be absolutely innacurate throughout this entire discussion. I'm not going to comapre the performance of Warrior AP caller to other classes but it certainly won't drain your H/H. Quote:
Yes. That what I was doing with my AP caller across all continents with many classes. There is nothing else you should be casting. =/
I mean my sin has wards, my ele either has wards or ar spells but I hardly ever cast them. I dunno how these three skills can drain your energy so quickly at least with the way I use them. It also makes no sense to me why you should always be spamming all three of them. I mean, it makes no sense casting all three of these skills on a target that will die with just AP > "FH!" and maybe also a few Discords mixed in and maybe also "YMLaD!". Quote: |
You are there to just speed things up a little.
Quote: I think you're underestimating how much energy an AP caller uses, and overestimating how much two pips of regeneration are providing. Your argument seems to depend on mobs being small enough that you can spam skills and only run dry as the last mob dies. What areas have mobs of such limited size? HM areas in Old Ascalon? The Plains of Jarin? Any content worth running is going to have beefy mobs, too many for you to spike before a warrior runs dry on energy. Most HM areas and missions have relatively small mobs. IMO "content worth running" which I suppose is dungeons and elite areas of sorts you can H/H in shouldn't be done with Discord.
Quote: Say you take your Warrior into a dungeon. What, pray tell, is he going to do during the boss fight? Without AP triggers, he's left just hanging out, relying on his team for everything. And wanding. Other AP builds have the energy to spam the other skills that they're bringing. What will rest of classes do? Really the same. Discord has crap DPS that's why I don't like to take it to dungeons at all.
Quote:
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Just like Lifebringing above me, I run AP on my Necromancer sometimes, and even a Necro with four pips of energy regeneration and soul reaping will start sputtering once he begins bumping the SR cap. The entire point of AP is to spam skills with otherwise unwieldy recharges. Not just one or two shouts.
Serious? What areas? This is a surprise for me. There whole reason I'm saying Warrior is alright with AP caller is because I never run out of energy on ither my Sin or Ele. I did a few areas with my War running AP caller when I was too bored to run anything else and it was nowhere as bad as you say. Weird. =/ Quote:
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