Once you start microing heroes to prot & heal her you are (a) wasting your own skill bar (b) bringing those skills on your heroes. A copy of Prot Spirit and ideally Aegis are almost a necessity on heroes in Hard Mode. That way you can micro PS when you need to.
As far as I know, Jeydra (and most others) almost always takes a Minion Master (Bomber if you're going to play semantics) and that can take the two prots no trouble.
Anything extra is wasteful, especially since you can take two very powerful Rit heroes and at least one of them can spec highly into Restoration for a couple of decent heals.
If minions aren't viable in an area, you can always slot in a Smiter for defense and offense (not as good though) and the ER hero can make a stronger case.

That being said, I frequently take an ER Hero regardless (not out of necessity, I just hate depending on henchmen monks), but it does mean I know I'm losing out on the second Rit hero.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

29 Jun 2010 at 16:25 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien View Post

In normal mode and against WiK foes Alesia is not only inadequate, but also a burden to the team, in HM she's fine as healer.

You can flag her way out of aggro range to provide healing in-between-fights but then you still need something to heal during the fight.
Once you start microing heroes to prot & heal her you are (a) wasting your own skill bar (b) bringing those skills on your heroes.

Btw, are you certain about offering that bet?

Quote: Are you retarded? I said ER Prot please learn to read before you post. I run one redbar on one of the Rits and 2/3 Prots on the MB, I never run an ER Prot with it.

kanuks

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

29 Jun 2010 at 20:45 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post

Then enter in HM.

You're not supposed to provide healing in between fights, you do it during fights. You're not supposed to flag her out of aggro range, you're supposed to flag her away when she decides to tank. You (should) have Prot Spirit on your heroes for a reason, and you should learn to multitask. As for needing to have heals on your heroes, would you rather run an ER + Alesia, or a semi-healer + Alesia? I'll say right now that Alesia + standard Spiritway + me on Elementalist primary beats WiK no problems in HM. I have little doubt I can do it in NM as well; at worst it just takes a bit more micro. Therefore it's simply not necessary to use the ER hero.

If you want to accept the bet, go right ahead. I've already said how I intend to win it. If you take the bet however, I can already predict that it'll become a slugfest over the meaning of the word "micro".

These days there's another option, the Mesmer hero, although when there are minions there's no matching the MB.

@kanuks - what heroes do you use? The same ones you used to clear SoO? I usually play the typical 2 spirit spammer + aotl combo but adjusted them to my warrior, which now usually uses an hundred blades build (sometimes a scythe build). On the sos rit i use the 3 typical resto heals (mend body and soul, pwk and spirit light). The aotl necro has smite secondary with soh and judge's insight. I don't need prots for any dungeons except for duncan (need ps for the final fight) and Forgewight (the hardest dungeon for me). Otherwise the minions and spirits soak most of the damage.

To be honest I inspired these builds from a screenshot you posted a while back :P At the time I didn't realise that the communing spirit spammer was that good.

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

29 Jun 2010 at 20:51 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount View Post

Are you retarded? I said ER Prot please learn to read before you post. I run one redbar on one of the Rits and 2/3 Prots on the MB, I never run an ER Prot with it. No wonder you get in so many arguments. Your reading comprehension is terrible.

You said ER Prot is overkill. I said that 6 backline skills on one hero is no different than 6 backline skills on two.

And you really can't deny that you've run 3 redbar + 3 prot builds. You've recommended Spiritway often enough. You even have it on your PvX player page.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

30 Jun 2010 at 06:26 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis View Post

A copy of Prot Spirit and ideally Aegis are almost a necessity on heroes in Hard Mode. That way you can micro PS when you need to.

Originally Posted by Xenosmortis

If minions aren't viable in an area, you can always slot in a Smiter for defense and offense (not as good though) and the ER hero can make a stronger case. These days there's another option, the Mesmer hero, although when there are minions there's no matching the MB.

@kanuks - what heroes do you use? The same ones you used to clear SoO?

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

29 Jun 2010 at 17:42 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_ View Post

You've run Spiritway, with 3 Prots and 3 Redbars. Most of the other builds I've seen you run or suggest have similar support bars.

I run ER Prot...with 3 Prots, 1 Redbar, 1 Hex Removal and 1 optional.

I think my facts are plenty straight.

Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post

Then enter in HM. Good advice finally, what I've been telling people to do for WiK.

Quote: You're not supposed to provide healing in between fights, you do it during fights. You're not supposed to flag her out of aggro range, In normal mode Alesia is too low level to be anywhere near the fight, low AL and HP means she'll be tanking as soon as she's withing casting range - and the low AL means she'll drain energy from the healers fast.

In Harmode I don't really care who's tanking.

Quote:

As for needing to have heals on your heroes, would you rather run an ER + Alesia, or a semi-healer + Alesia? In normal mode I'd advice to leave Alesia out. In hardmode I bring Alesia and I have restoration on the Rit, combined with prot on the Bomber and some curses that is sufficient.

Quote: So what. You don't use ER Prot. No duh.

What does that have to do with anything? Where did I ever say that you used it?

Quote:

If you want to accept the bet, go right ahead. You proposed it to Cuilan, with the words "... you can micro Alesia ...".

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

30 Jun 2010 at 10:58 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_ View Post

No wonder you get in so many arguments. Your reading comprehension is terrible.

You said ER Prot is overkill. I said that 6 backline skills on one hero is no different than 6 backline skills on two.

And you really can't deny that you've run 3 redbar + 3 prot builds. You've recommended Spiritway often enough. You even have it on your PvX player page. No, your reading comprehension is terrible, just like of 90% of people on this forum. That's why you start retarded arguments where they otherwise shouldn't be. I said I almost never use ER PROT, that's because I use other means of healing/protting other than ER Prot. Got it now or are you just completely thick?

ER Prot hero only prots/heals a little. SoS Hero with one redbar spams Spirits, makes walls and spams uber damage buffs. MB with some prots creates Minion armies, deals massive damage with bombing them and spams hexes. Now go say it's the same as one ER Prot again and make fun of yourself some more. It's very amusing.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

30 Jun 2010 at 12:13 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Aegis is cool, but Prot Spirit is not needed normally in HM. Two Rits and a bomber makes it harder to bring decent curses, though it could be an option to let the bomber could take care of that. Eh? Curses?
The bomber can very easily take 2 prots, some cleaning and a res. The core of a minion bomber bar is only 2 skills and you shouldn't take any more than 4 skills to fulfill the minion duties - that leaves 4 skills.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

30 Jun 2010 at 17:03 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Eh? Curses?
The bomber can very easily take 2 prots, some cleaning and a res. The core of a minion bomber bar is only 2 skills and you shouldn't take any more than 4 skills to fulfill the minion duties - that leaves 4 skills. You're not suggesting 4 attributes? Soul Reaping, Death Magic, Protection Prayers and Cursus on one bar is spreading it a bit thin. But it might still work.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

30 Jun 2010 at 17:15 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

You're not suggesting 4 attributes? Soul Reaping, Death Magic, Protection Prayers and Cursus on one bar is spreading it a bit thin. But it might still work. No. You mentioned Curses in your post and I was confused.
I suspect you meant prots.

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

30 Jun 2010 at 18:05 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount View Post

No, your reading comprehension is terrible, just like of 90% of people on this forum. That's why you start retarded arguments where they otherwise shouldn't be. I said I almost never use ER PROT, that's because I use other means of healing/protting other than ER Prot. Got it now or are you just completely thick?

ER Prot hero only prots/heals a little. SoS Hero with one redbar spams Spirits, makes walls and spams uber damage buffs. MB with some prots creates Minion armies, deals massive damage with bombing them and spams hexes. Now go say it's the same as one ER Prot again and make fun of yourself some more. It's very amusing. My SoS hero doesn't waste time spamming any healing at all. It maintains SoH, Judge's Insight, and Splinter Weapon, and spams AR.

My MB doesn't waste time protting either, when I'm running an ER (and if I even run a MB). It spams Death Nova and curses like it should be doing, instead of prioritizing protection like all Heroes will do.

You don't like ER. We get it. You've spammed up every second topic with your whining about it. Just don't pretend that splitting up Healing and Protting between two heroes is magically better than putting them all on one.

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

30 Jun 2010 at 21:21 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_ View Post

So what. You don't use ER Prot. No duh.

What does that have to do with anything? Where did I ever say that you used it?

My SoS hero doesn't waste time spamming any healing at all. It maintains SoH, Judge's Insight, and Splinter Weapon, and spams AR.

My MB doesn't waste time protting either, when I'm running an ER (and if I even run a MB). It spams Death Nova and curses like it should be doing, instead of prioritizing protection like all Heroes will do.

Run that then. Don't see how your comment relates to the topic. SoS and MB have enough time to freely heal and prot so I give them that and take something useful in the third hero slot. Nothing wrong happens if they waste time casting that, bullshit argument tbh.

You don't like ER. We get it. You've spammed up every second topic with your whining about it. Just don't pretend that splitting up Healing and Protting between two heroes is magically better than putting them all on one. Fanboy, what's your point? You QQ allot but still haven't shown me why ER Prot hero is not an overkill. I already proven you wrong when you claimed that having some prots and heals on the Spiritway SoS and MB is the same as wasting a hero slot on an ER Prot hero. I suggest you stop embarassing yourself any further.

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

01 Jul 2010 at 00:16 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Fanboy, what's your point? You QQ allot but still haven't shown me why ER Prot hero is not an overkill. I already proven you wrong when you claimed that having some prots and heals on the Spiritway SoS and MB is the same as wasting a hero slot on an ER Prot hero. I suggest you stop embarassing yourself any further. Proven what?

You run Prots and Heals on Spiritway, you lose Smites and Curses, and have Heroes spamming support skills more than damage skills.

I run ER Prot, and I get all my damage boosts maintained, and get PBAoE spells spammed.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

01 Jul 2010 at 00:25 - 56

@Dusk_ - quote you something:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=116

@Amy Awien - in HM you do need one person with Prot Spirit, or you will wipe (or at least take deaths) to stuff like Burning Spirits and Elementalist bosses that hit for 404-damage with Invoke Lightning. And of course Cuilan can micro Alesia, he just doesn't want to do it for whatever reason.

@kanuks - kinda surprised that works so well with Warrior primary. Ever tried EFGJack's build?

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

01 Jul 2010 at 09:35 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post

@Amy Awien - in HM you do need one person with Prot Spirit, ... Well, usually there's a prot hench that brings it, so you might be right about the one person with Prot Spirit. But I do fine in HM without bringing Prot Spirit on any heroes - without deaths or wiping - even without the prot hench. Barring specific area's and bosses where additional copies may be usefull, in general I don't need it in HM. But I can see how one would take it on a bar that is dedicated to protting, or an ER hero who can spam it despite it's 10E cost.

maxxfury

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

[DVDF] Gp

Me/A

01 Jul 2010 at 13:25 - 58

A copy of PS on a controllable hero makes agro not only easier and safer, but also much quicker.

If you cant micro PS on your self for agro control in the harder areas you have to hope Lina will PS you when you start been hit...and thats just not good enough imo as you cant pin her back and still have her cast on you out of range....pre prot > big damage when agroing.

Especially when hench usually prot by reaction.. and arent smart enough to pre prot you before you get in and control the agro.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

01 Jul 2010 at 20:36 - 59

Well, I guess we just do things differently, adapt our strategy to what's suitable with our H&H setup. I always felt it was too expensive, but that argument crumbles with ER anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

I run ER Prot, and I get all my damage boosts maintained, and get PBAoE spells spammed. Not sure what you run on your ER-prot with PBAoE's but the PvX one dedicates a hero-slot to a bar filled with prots and healing. A bar that could've run something else. I know the OP asks about ER prot+heal but I feel there must be something offensive you can feed from ER and spamming cheap, fast recharging prots.

kanuks

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

01 Jul 2010 at 23:15 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post

@Dusk_ - quote you something:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=116

@Amy Awien - in HM you do need one person with Prot Spirit, or you will wipe (or at least take deaths) to stuff like Burning Spirits and Elementalist bosses that hit for 404-damage with Invoke Lightning. And of course Cuilan can micro Alesia, he just doesn't want to do it for whatever reason.

@kanuks - kinda surprised that works so well with Warrior primary. Ever tried EFGJack's build? If you're talking about the 3 smiter build then no thanks. It requires constant micro and constant bodyblock. It might be slightly faster in some areas but i prefer my setup which doesnt require much micro. Soh and judges is still on my bar. I don't need all the other smiting skills. He basically uses a tank and spank approach with dolyak signet i think. I don't like it.

Shouzen

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2008

Netherlands

A/R

02 Jul 2010 at 17:37 - 61

Do I have to micromanage alot if using a ER Hero?

Marty Silverblade

Administrator

Join Date: Jun 2006

02 Jul 2010 at 22:57 - 62

Not really. Only Prot Spirit when you need it. It's probably beneficial to force it to use certain skills at certain times but you don't need to do that (and it's bordering on playing two characters at once anyway).

Shouzen

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2008

Netherlands

A/R

03 Jul 2010 at 16:46 - 63

Would it be safe to say that 2 ER healers can replace my current 2 monk backline? (1 WoH Healer and a N/Rt healer).

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

03 Jul 2010 at 17:26 - 64

If you're talking about heroes, no. You only want 1 ER. And what are you doing with WoH healer anyway, N/Rt's are vastly superior to monk heroes. IMO, at least.

Puebert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/

03 Jul 2010 at 19:33 - 65

You really don't need two heroes healing. Just bring 1 er hero and a monk hench and load everything else with damage.

Carinae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Inside

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

31 Jul 2010 at 07:33 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis View Post

The ER Ele I sometimes take with physical primaries:

Skills:
Protective Spirit
Spirit Bond
Aegis
Convert Hexes/Reverse Hex
Remove Hex/Shield of Absorption
Strength of Honor
Aura of Restoration
Ether Renewal {E}

Stats:
Energy Storage: 11(/10)+1+1/(/2)
Protection Prayers: 10
Smiting Prayers: 10(/11)

Xeno, I'm sure you've seen it, but here's what I run on a physical. Very heavy on the hex/cond removal, enchant removal, lots of prots, and lots of red bars. Plus, you get synergy with DK+Orders and Orders+ER, as well as Orders offering protection vs enchant removal.

The ER Ele I ALWAYS take with physical primaries:

Skills:
Protective Spirit
Spirit Bond
Infuse Health
Dwayna's Kiss
Convert Hexes
Aegis
Aura of Restoration
Ether Renewal {E}

Stats:
Energy Storage: 11+1+1
Protection Prayers: 10
Healing Prayers: 10

The wicked Smiting-Orders I ALWAYS take with physical primaries:

Skills:
Order of Pain
Dark Fury
Empathic Removal {E}
Smite Hex
Smite Condition
Strip Enchantment
Signet of Lost Souls
Strength of Honor

Stats:
Blood Magic: 11+1+1
Smiting Prayers: 10
Soul Reaping: 11

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

31 Jul 2010 at 09:34 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae View Post

Xeno, I'm sure you've seen it, but here's what I run on a physical. Very heavy on the hex/cond removal, enchant removal, lots of prots, and lots of red bars. Plus, you get synergy with DK+Orders and Orders+ER, as well as Orders offering protection vs enchant removal. Yeah, I have seen it. The thing I don't like is Orders on a hero when I'm the only physical. The cost to the hero is quite high in terms of energy and health and it needs a large spec into Blood when I'm only bringing one or two skills from it. Blood Bond is nice though, so I would try to bring that. The upshot is some extra damage and cleaning.

Lately I've taken to running a Panic Mesmer and a Rit hero with SoH and Splinter Weapon along with an ER hero. But it's not something I've played around with too much.

aefghuys

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

Missouri

Obon

D/P

04 Aug 2010 at 17:48 - 68

im loving the idea of an ER prot hero, however im having some problems, heres the current build:

1 infuse
2 ps
3 aegis
4 sg
5 life attunement
6 prot bond
7 ER
8 AoR

i tried microing the 2 bonds, but im wondering if thats not possible? every time it would cast a bond it would remove it immediately. does it matter if i set the hero to guard or avoid combat?(currently using a staff with 20% enchant) should i avoid bonds on the hero altogether? thanks

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

04 Aug 2010 at 17:57 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by aefghuys

i tried microing the 2 bonds, but im wondering if thats not possible? every time it would cast a bond it would remove it immediately. does it matter if i set the hero to guard or avoid combat?(currently using a staff with 20% enchant) should i avoid bonds on the hero altogether? thanks Disable the skill on the hero's bar.
Micro it.
It will now stick.

Don't use Prot Bond though - it'll chew through their energy quite quickly and then you're left with a useless hero.

aefghuys

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

Missouri

Obon