Mesmer: Domination or Illusion?
hazmat
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Domination far outweighs Illusion in general.. to me at least. I do find illusion excellent in random arena - especially considering the amount of warriors that play there. Shutting down casters with domination is so much more fun.
BTW, is migraine really worth taking up your only elite slot when arcane conundrum does pretty much the same thing?
Edit: Blah .. getting carried away
DieInBasra
Migraine has faster recharger, lasts longer, and adds a bit of degen. Miagraine lasts for 17 recharges in 15, conundrum lasts for 13 recharges in 20, so you can keep migraine up constanly. With mantra of persistance you can keep it on two people.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by DieInBasra
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Originally Posted by DieInBasra
In the same situation we could have two casters casting slow and the warriors without adren with Illusion spells as well, have those hexes last twice as long so you don't have to worry about them until the end, AND have some energy managment. The dom/ill situation you posted would cost 50 energy and you'd have little way of getting it back. The guy useing conjure has 5 other spells he can use for energy gain that can help the party as well. All in all I think that it matters where you are and what group you have. But, when you have the choice an illusion mesmer has skills that work well with a team that knows each other, and knows what to do. In a PUG, domination is probably better. I'll say it again... domination/illusion combo is best... domination conditional damage + SV + other hexes. Little way of getting it back? Have YOU ever left PvP? Firstly, the whole point of tossing out hexes is from after that, you don't need to spam spells. They stay on the target. Secondly, spells such as guilt can net you a quick energy boost, as well as interrupting an enemy spell. Occasionally I play empathy spammer (mantra of recovery, empathy, some other spells), and with guilt and eTap I rarely run too heavily out of energy. What I posted wasn't a PvP design, it was for PvE. Running something like that in PvP would get you slaughtered. I suggested 4 skills, leaving 3 for energy recovery. If you still profess to state conjure phantasm is the enemy-harming equivelent to Backfire and Empathy, then your point works. Me/N with 1 rotting flesh in areas such as new UW = full spammage of phantasm. At less energy, and less targetting concern, for around the same time. That leaves SEVEN (not counting res) more skills to use. Like I said, play necro or Me/N if you want degen, illusion is best for skills like Visage, Migrane etc.. DieInBasra
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Little way of getting it back? Have YOU ever left PvP? Firstly, the whole point of tossing out hexes is from after that, you don't need to spam spells. They stay on the target.
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I was playing devils advocate on the conjure thing, yeah, that's not so great.
Quote: We're currently discussing PvE. And yes, I have, particularly with mesmer. Then you'd know that being a migraine mesmer involves a conjure and a drain enchant, enough to throw both veil and CoP off. What made me kind of confused is that you said that migraine can easily be CoP'd or veiled off, but that
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Firstly, the whole point of tossing out hexes is from after that, you don't need to spam spells. They stay on the target.
You also say you aren't spamming, but you just threw 4 spells out there one after the other, then you say that the person who used conjure five time is. All spin, I suppose.
Avarre
And yes, I'm more PvE oriented. Usually my migrane is torn apart by every monk on the enemy side as soon as it and its feeble coverhex is cast.
Originally Posted by DieInBasra
There are 2 energy recovery skills for domination, guilt and shame. Both are quite useful, especially in areas like new UW where interrupting an enemy interrupt with guilt is always handy. But usually, without any energy maintainance, I don't have problems tossing out 4 hexes in rapid sucession. I've also never needed to slow down the team for being low energy, because after hexing I can basically sit and regen- my damage is 'dealt' as you could say, for the next 20 or so seconds. Guilt put on a scythe, or shame on a shadow monk gives enough of a boost to toss several more hexes, and by then the enemy side is crippled and dying already. Quote: Then you'd know that being a migraine mesmer involves a conjure and a drain enchant, enough to throw both veil and CoP off.
Umm, if you enemy was, say, a boonprot, draining their veil would remove phantasm and their CoP would still remove boon to get the migrane, no?
DieInBasra
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Usually my migrane is torn apart by every monk on the enemy side as soon as it and its feeble coverhex is cast
Then you need to bring a Necro, which goes back to my statement of Illusion being more potent in a team that knows each other, and who's skills interlink as opposed to a PUG. |
My bad for the wrong skill name We're talking random or teams then. Well, you'd target someone esle and leave him there to rot with -2 energy regen. When you see the veil is off( you'll be able to notice the cast times), follow up with the migraine conjure. You could also cast conjure and acrane conundrum on a different target, drain the target monk to get that energy back and strip him of veil, then proceed with the conjure/migraine. Conjures recharge should be able to beat out the CoP if you can get it on right after the migraine.
Avarre
Eh, or I could play dom/insp energy drainer and completely ignore the enchantments on them, because they don't really affect that build
 Both work, but in PvE illusionary degen is weak. In PvP, illusion doesn't kill by degen, its from cast slowing and things like Visage, both of which is use on Dom/Illu builds for PvE.
Jasrak
Inspiration ftw? :P
Hella Good
It's like comparing Coke to beer... it just doesn't work like that. I use them all, depending on the mood. Even in PvE illusion is potent- Ineptitude/Phantom Pain/Shatter Del/Epidemic and you got yourself some nice AoE capabilities. That's what I used to use in FoW back in the days. Along with conundrum and rangers dazing though
 I find myself leaning towards Domi atm, e-denial is far too potent. But yea, it depends on what you are building for and what you are fighting.
SnipiousMax
Degen just doesn't kill fast enough for me. I do like the Phantom Pain + Shatter delusion combo...but that's mostly Domination.
Lady Lozza
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Originally Posted by Avarre
 The reason most people don't use it is because it drains... <10 from the enemy (you gain 2x) per 30 seconds, whereas surge / echo (for weariness signet) drains 10/20s. Honestly energy drain is a must if you are using Ether Lord. The point of e-denial is exactly that making it better if they can't regen energy quickly, and you have to have the energy to keep casting, I've tried this with e-surge and e-tap (yes the non-elite ) and it just isn't enough to keep the regen down. The only other options for a quick regen after Ether Lord are basically all interrupts, which aren't garanteed to work. Furthermore, the recharge time of e-surge may be better but you don't get anything out of it and it costs more. IMHO if you don't care about getting the energy back go with Panic + e-tap and e-lord, it may cost more than e-surge, however the recharge is better and the effects of the skill are far better for the purpose of e-denial.Quote:
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