ZC catering?
Essence Snow
I was just curious to the logic behind ZC being repeatable? Is it an attempt by Anet to quell the PvPer's constant whining? Is it over farmed? What would be some options/reasons to change it? Should PvE have an equivelent....maybe repeatable WiK Asassination for example?
Mr. G
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Arduin
Mr. G is right. Rerolling characters would only be a nuisance. Why do you think it should be that way, Essence Snow?
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by Arduin
Mr. G is right. Rerolling characters would only be a nuisance. Why do you think it should be that way, Essence Snow?
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MagmaRed
PvP characters can easily be recreated. All the repeat does is prevent someone from coming up with a new character name. It would still be repeatable in the sense you are thinking about. PvE characters would not be able to repeat it though, which may be a bigger reason that it was made repeatable. Not because PvP whiners, but because of PvE whiners.
Mr. G
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
PvP characters can easily be recreated. All the repeat does is prevent someone from coming up with a new character name. It would still be repeatable in the sense you are thinking about. PvE characters would not be able to repeat it though, which may be a bigger reason that it was made repeatable. Not because PvP whiners, but because of PvE whiners.
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Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
PvP characters can easily be recreated. All the repeat does is prevent someone from coming up with a new character name. It would still be repeatable in the sense you are thinking about. PvE characters would not be able to repeat it though, which may be a bigger reason that it was made repeatable. Not because PvP whiners, but because of PvE whiners.
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Xslash
f12, character select, hit delete, type character name, enter, select new pvp char, enter, enter, enter (appearance dont matter), type same name, take zaishen combat.
i can understand you saying..dont bother changing it to repeatable (if it wasnt repeatable already) because it takes work to change it,
but saying- make it tedious to take quest again is just stupid. you want anet to do work to make it harder to do something that is easily done in under 30 seconds.
i can understand you saying..dont bother changing it to repeatable (if it wasnt repeatable already) because it takes work to change it,
but saying- make it tedious to take quest again is just stupid. you want anet to do work to make it harder to do something that is easily done in under 30 seconds.
Essence Snow
Think u took what I said wrong...Now that I see the point ....it is easy either way...I was saying "why not" keep it repeatable.....At the time of my OP I was not thinking about how easy it was to remake PvP chars. Still think the rewards are bit high though.
LicensedLuny
If memory serves, when the z quests first came out the PvP versions were once-per-character, too. Players were doing exactly what is mentioned here - do the PvP z quest on a PvP character, get reward, delete and recreate the character, repeat.
Folks complained (and rightly so, imo) that the system was foolish - if PvP z quests were going to be that easy to repeat, they should simply make them repeatable for all characters.
The limit is that it's available only for 24 hours. If there's a balance issue, I think it makes more sense to adjust the rewards rather than try to design clunky and unnecessary restrictions on repeating the quest.
Folks complained (and rightly so, imo) that the system was foolish - if PvP z quests were going to be that easy to repeat, they should simply make them repeatable for all characters.
The limit is that it's available only for 24 hours. If there's a balance issue, I think it makes more sense to adjust the rewards rather than try to design clunky and unnecessary restrictions on repeating the quest.
Swahnee
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
Not sure what u mean by PvE whiners....but the point bout PvP chars being easily recreated make sense. It would be repeatable either way so why not.
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| PvP characters can easily be recreated. All the repeat does is prevent someone from coming up with a new character name. It would still be repeatable in the sense you are thinking about. PvE characters would not be able to repeat it though, which may be a bigger reason that it was made repeatable. Not because PvP whiners, but because of PvE whiners. |
N.B.: PvP'er = someone who plays mostly (if not only) PvP, PvE'r = someone who plays mostly (if not only) PvE.
Winterclaw
I believe it is called a "daily" in WoW.
Lord Sojar
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
I believe it is called a "daily" in WoW.
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However, PvP only players only have access to the PvP daily, ergo, they should be able to repeat it for the same rewards as PvEers.
Chronos the Defiler
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
I believe it is called a "daily" in WoW.
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Anyways, this is also a better way to get people PvPing even on PvE characters. In my alliance alone there have been people trying to setup GvGs in order to participate (or attempt to) even if the guild is 80% PvE.
UnChosen
the PvP ZQ being repeatable is fine. The problem is that the more difficult PvE ones like "kill dungeon end boss" and "kill so and so in UW/FoW/DoA/Urgoz/Deep" are NOT repeatable. Such a perfect opportunity to get some people to actually group and they decided to make it only once a day 
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snaek
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Originally Posted by UnChosen
the PvP ZQ being repeatable is fine. The problem is that the more difficult PvE ones like "kill dungeon end boss" and "kill so and so in UW/FoW/DoA/Urgoz/Deep" are NOT repeatable. Such a perfect opportunity to get some people to actually group and they decided to make it only once a day
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i think the repeatable pvp vs non-repeatable pve is a pretty fair trade-off. first of all because there are 2 pve-based zq's vs the 1 pvp-based zq; second of all because most pve'rs have multiple pve characters; and third of all, playing one pvp mode repetitively is fairly normal whereas killing one boss over and over again can be considered farming.
FoxBat
In the early, early design stages they really wanted to make all the zaishen stuff once per account per day. It primary purpose was to get people to group together doing different things, not encourage repeating the juicier PvE quests over and over on different characters. They couldn't get the quest log to work like this though and had to go with once per character, and rewards and objectives were chosen with this factor in mind. So they couldn't get a once-per-account restriction on PvP even if they wanted to (which as I mentioned, they did just like for all other zaishen quests.)
Eragon Zarroc
It is a reward for PvP'ers who do not enjoy playing PvE to get items. Making it once per character would just have people re-rolling pvp characters over and over again. wouldn't just slow down openingthe chest. pointless.
kedde
The one other problem than the major nuisance this retarded idea is, is that the one other reward you can get as a pure pvp player is the ability to make your characters not look extremely ugly. That however is completely lost, erased, done if you reroll, which in itself is stupid, but would be even worse with a terrible idea like this.
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by kedde
The one other problem than the major nuisance this retarded idea is, is that the one other reward you can get as a pure pvp player is the ability to make your characters not look extremely ugly. That however is completely lost, erased, done if you reroll, which in itself is stupid, but would be even worse with a terrible idea like this.
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Winterclaw
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Originally Posted by Lord Sojar
Correct dear sir. However, in WoW, they are not repeatable at all by the same character.
However, PvP only players only have access to the PvP daily, ergo, they should be able to repeat it for the same rewards as PvEers. |
jimbo32
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Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc
It is a reward for PvP'ers who do not enjoy playing PvE to get items. Making it once per character would just have people re-rolling pvp characters over and over again. wouldn't just slow down openingthe chest. pointless.
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It's my opinion that the Z mission and bounties should be made repeatable as well. The stupidly easy ones like Tihark Orchard could be removed.
kedde
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Originally Posted by jimbo32
That sounds fine in theory. But what it actually has ended up being is this - a way for serious PvP'ers to make huge amounts of cash by gouging other players on equipment packs, tomes, etc. They are able to do this just by playing the formats that they normally play *anyway*. There's no drawback that I can see - they don't have to spend 20 minutes or more trekking to the arse-end of nowhere to reach a boss like Rotscale. The rewards come from normal play. The massive amounts of extra faction that can be gained from ZCombat is an extra bonus. (As an example, the GvG zcombat gives 1500g, 9k faction and 50 zcoins for winning one match. Ridiculous).
It's my opinion that the Z mission and bounties should be made repeatable as well. The stupidly easy ones like Tihark Orchard could be removed. |
It isn't like playing pve doesn't already earn you much more than farming quests for keys could ever get you. The only rival to pve in terms of moneymaking is pulling a rawr and winning every single tournament month after month.
Reflect
ZC = once per acc = GG
Deakon
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Originally Posted by Reflect
ZC = once per acc = GG
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On a side note... I'm really surprised that people aren't up-in-arms about PvPers exploiting the Zaishen daily using the wash, rinse, delete, repeat cheat. Kinda puts all the complaining about the PvE exploits in perspective and is a clue as to who complains the most. (I jest)
Kydd
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Originally Posted by Deakon
That would be the perfect solution. Or do away with the once-per-character dailies altogether. PvP only players intentionally pigeon-hole themselves. They shouldn't be given preferential treatment for that. If you're going to make the Z-Combat daily repeatable for a single PvP char then it should be repeatable for ALL chars.
On a side note... I'm really surprised that people aren't up-in-arms about PvPers exploiting the Zaishen daily using the wash, rinse, delete, repeat cheat. Kinda puts all the complaining about the PvE exploits in perspective and is a clue as to who complains the most. (I jest) |
Also I would not consider playing the format you enjoy pigeon holing.
Deakon
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Originally Posted by Kydd
You realize you can re roll the z-combat on pve characters as well right?
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What happened to all the "fair and balanced" talk from the PvP crowd on this subject? Just because you choose to play PvP only characters shouldn't give you benefits over other players. If it's allowed by Anet, I wouldn't consider it cheating but it's definitely a potential for exploitation and something that I wouldn't think Anet would condone.
Honestly... do you think it's fair to nerf PvE ecto farming permasins (just an example... not condoning) but allow free reign to PvP chars to repeat combat dailies to basically farm zkeys? (which I see being traded for ecto constantly) Really?
Now I know why so many PvP only players were upset about the permasins... they were horning in on their lucrative ecto biz. (I jest)
Kydd
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Originally Posted by Deakon
Yep... But you can't just zone right back to the temple on a re-rolled PvE character like you can with a PvP char. You can't just load armor sets on PvE chars like you can on PvP chars. You can't just load a build on a fresh PvE char like you can on a PvP char. So I fail to see the point you're trying to make.
What happened to all the "fair and balanced" talk from the PvP crowd on this subject? Just because you choose to play PvP only characters shouldn't give you benefits over other players. If it's allowed by Anet, I wouldn't consider it cheating but it's definitely a potential for exploitation and something that I wouldn't think Anet would condone. Honestly... do you think it's fair to nerf PvE ecto farming permasins (just an example... not condoning) but allow free reign to PvP chars to repeat combat dailies to basically farm zkeys? (which I see being traded for ecto constantly) Really? Now I know why so many PvP only players were upset about the permasins... they were horning in on their lucrative ecto biz. (I jest) |
Deakon
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Originally Posted by Kydd
Just change districts on your pve character after you accept the reward and you can get teh z-combat again. You don't have to create a new pve character to get the quest again. Feel free to farm zkeys with the rest of us and see if you make more money doing that or clearing UW in 20 minutes.
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Kydd
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Originally Posted by Deakon
I've never been on an UW speed clear. You can't rezone on a PvP char and retake the combat daily? If not, then I will argue against myself because that wouldn't be fair towards PvP only players.
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You CAN rezone on a pve char and retake the combat.
Shadowhaze
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Originally Posted by jimbo32
That sounds fine in theory. But what it actually has ended up being is this - a way for serious PvP'ers to make huge amounts of cash by gouging other players on equipment packs, tomes, etc. They are able to do this just by playing the formats that they normally play *anyway*. There's no drawback that I can see - they don't have to spend 20 minutes or more trekking to the arse-end of nowhere to reach a boss like Rotscale. The rewards come from normal play. The massive amounts of extra faction that can be gained from ZCombat is an extra bonus. (As an example, the GvG zcombat gives 1500g, 9k faction and 50 zcoins for winning one match. Ridiculous).
It's my opinion that the Z mission and bounties should be made repeatable as well. The stupidly easy ones like Tihark Orchard could be removed. |
And chances are if they already play those pvp formats, they'll have no long waits in setting up teams like say a pver wanting to get into it would.
*shrugs*
Missmelady
From what I understand was the deletion and creation of hundreds of characters every 10 min or so was actually causing mass server errors and major lag across all of guildwars. Once they made the ZC repetable this lag substationally decreased across all of gw. Just what I understood from part of the reasoning behind it.
Quail Stomp
No one is stopping pve players from doing the ZC, just themselves. Why complain about it? The rewards are about right for most ZC since pvp can be a bit harder than pve. Pvp players dont make as much gold as pve players so anything that gets them closer money wise is a good thing.
Missmelady
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Originally Posted by Quail Stomp
No one is stopping pve players from doing the ZC, just themselves. Why complain about it? The rewards are about right for most ZC since pvp can be a bit harder than pve. Pvp players dont make as much gold as pve players so anything that gets them closer money wise is a good thing.
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Well in all acuality a majority of pvp players do not make as much as pvers but the high end pvpers do make more then pvers. Winning gvg monthly nets u I think 3500 or 2500 reward points and figure its 1k per point so roughly 2 mil u win.
Granted most pvpers do not make anywhere near this amount.
During wintersday and the redux with the snowball at's I was making 500+k every turny with 3 turnies a day. I was making 1.5 mil a day just playing snowballs. So therefore to compare the amount of money one makes in pve and pvp are completely irrevelant. If you are a good pvper you can make loads more then someone that pve's unless they are hella good powertraders.
snaek
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Originally Posted by Missmelady
If you are a good pvper you can make loads more then someone that pve's unless they are hella good powertraders.
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besides, you do realize that the snowball tournies happen only twice (iirc?) a year, right? so while sure, you made 1.5million per day over the event, thats gotta make up for the slack of what you'll make throughout the rest of the year. same concept applies to the monthly mat, albeit on a smaller scale.
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by Quail Stomp
No one is stopping pve players from doing the ZC, just themselves. Why complain about it? The rewards are about right for most ZC since pvp can be a bit harder than pve.
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Originally Posted by Quail Stomp
Pvp players dont make as much gold as pve players so anything that gets them closer money wise is a good thing.
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Lishy
And from what I've seen, most of those bots have been killed ^
snaek
^not to mention pvp bots existed before zq was even created.
Swahnee
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Originally Posted by The Drunkard
The issue concerns whether or not it's fair that pure pvpers have access to repeatable quests whereas pure pvers don't.
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| Like the other Zaishen Challenge Quests, you can only have 3 Zaishen Combat quests active in your Quest Log at any time. Unlike the others, however, you can repeat Zaishen Combat quests as often as you like while they are available. (As with all repeatable quests, after accepting the reward, you must re-zone before the signpost will offer the quest again.) |
dancing gnome
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
I was just curious to the logic behind ZC being repeatable? Is it an attempt by Anet to quell the PvPer's constant whining? Is it over farmed? What would be some options/reasons to change it? Should PvE have an equivelent....maybe repeatable WiK Asassination for example?
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- There is only one PvP quest whereas there are two PvE quests.
- It is more time consuming to complete a PvP quest than a PvE quest. PvP puts you up against other players who can usually not be beaten using the same broken mechanics and AI abuse that PvE uses. The rewards also require completion several times, increasing time taken.
As much as I'd like to pretend the above are the reasons why it's repeatable, the simple reality is because players can delete and simply remake a PvP character to refresh the quest quota, the only way to make it truly not repeatable would be to limit the quest to once a day per account like Nicholas in pre-searing. I'm guessing the Live Team decided that allowing unlimited repeats was "more fair" than allowing only once a day.
It would be too easily exploited to allow PvE unlimited Z Quest farming.
Many PvE quests are easily farmable in short periods of time. An example of a broken PvE quest would be Imperial Sanctum. It takes less than 3 minutes to beat him in hard mode and the reward is 150 Z Coins and 1 platinum. A single day of this being repeatable would do massive damage to the economy.
As much as I'd love to see repeatable Z Quests for PvE, for the above reason I don't think we ever will.
I think superior alternatives to the current situation would be:
- Increase the number of Bounties offered from 1 to 3. This would give players more than one bounty to grind those coins and prevent "repeatable easy farm" abuse.
- Decrease the Z Bounty rotation time. Instead of a new bounty every 24 hours, a new bounty every 6 hours would give players more to do.
- Offer a bounty on every boss in a certain zone, requiring more time for completion but greater reward.
- Add two new bounties. A daily dungeon bounty and a daily vanquish bounty. They would fill gaps in the current system helping players to complete specific content with groups.