I'm pretty sure most of know that Asassin's Promise is OP in PvE. It reduces the need for one to know how to play a particular class. It's pretty sad that a lot of people consider the most effective build for multiple classes to be AP. So having that in mind maybe:
1) Move AP to assasin's primary line?
2) Modify AP to only effect assasin skills? (as noted by someone in another thread)
3) Modify Ebon Sin, so only one may be out at a time?
4) Modify AP so it only recharges other skills and not itself, but reduce it's recharge?
5) Modify the E gain?
There are too many options to change this skill to note. AP as it stands allows players to avoid having to utilize their profession. Somewhat like a caster form of Ursan..if you will.
Thanks!~Take care and Have fun~
Tone Down AP
Essence Snow
chadS
What do you want to do next? Make it so that only rits can spirit spam?
People need to stop asking for things to get nerfed. Eventually, everything will be gone. Because we know anet does a awful job and buffing things.
People need to stop asking for things to get nerfed. Eventually, everything will be gone. Because we know anet does a awful job and buffing things.
Lishy
Question about the reasons to nerf it: So what?
Seriously. So what? So what if we can spam sins? So what if we "Aren't using our profession." Seriously. So what?
This thread has to be a joke.
Seriously. So what? So what if we can spam sins? So what if we "Aren't using our profession." Seriously. So what?
This thread has to be a joke.
Essence Snow
Looks like some are very defensive bout their fav builds...lol
Lishy
Nah, I don't even play sin or mes. But I still acknowledge that the reasons to nerf AP is ridiculously stupid and just takes the fun out of the game.
sthpaw
I agree,
its so people can actually play their chosen profession,
hmmmm sounds a bit like ursan.
its so people can actually play their chosen profession,
hmmmm sounds a bit like ursan.
IronSheik
Nah, just remove all PvE skills from game.
If not, this sounds fine too.
If not, this sounds fine too.
McMullen
A lot of things in PvE need changing to up the difficulty.. as it stands a gorilla chewing a keyboard could probably beat the best part of PvE with the right build.
I'm all for an overall balance of PvE but it's not likely to happen.
I'm all for an overall balance of PvE but it's not likely to happen.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
1) Move AP to assasin's primary line?
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If this is done, fix the duration to 10 seconds and only make the energy gain depend on the attribute rank. I see no reason for this though since it means you don't need to sink as many attribute points into an otherwise useless line as before (unless you really need the energy).
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
2) Modify AP to only effect assasin skills? (as noted by someone in another thread)
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
3) Modify Ebon Sin, so only one may be out at a time?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
4) Modify AP so it only recharges other skills and not itself, but reduce it's recharge?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
5) Modify the E gain?
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
There are too many options to change this skill to note. AP as it stands allows players to avoid having to utilize their profession. Somewhat like a caster form of Ursan..if you will.
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Assassin's Promise as it stands, is fine (well, ish). Dedicating an elite to recharge your powerful non-elites with long recharges is I think, fine - at least in PvE.
The problem arises from the fact that just under 3 years ago, ANet pushed in 50 powerful skills into PvE that can be used by any profession. Some of these rival elites in their power and function whilst not being elite themselves and you can equip three of them. This is were the problem lies, not with AP.
Of course, if you nerf AP then people will simply try to use other recharge reducing skills.
Mesmers might try Mantra of Recovery, Rits might go with Ghostly Haste but I imagine most will switch to X/R for Serpent's Quickness or perhaps Oath Shot.
Morphy
Who cares. PvE is beyond repair.
SkekSister
Comparing AP to Ursan is ridiculous. You don't see teams of AP using secondary assassins tearing their way through DoA & UW. AP is the least of this game's problems. Dev time would be much better spent elsewhere.
Benderama
sorry what? i haven't been using AP because i do what i want in GW. really, doesn't it just give like 17 energy on kill if the hex is still there? plus it's an elite, you heard of siphon spirit? considering you can get 3 spirits free of charge and get 14 energy from each one this isn't that OP. kinda like saying energy storage is OP. sorry if i'm not seeing the whole thing but it isn't in serious need of a nerf right now, paragons still need a helping buff.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Benderama
sorry what? i haven't been using AP because i do what i want in GW. really, doesn't it just give like 17 energy on kill if the hex is still there? plus it's an elite, you heard of siphon spirit? considering you can get 3 spirits free of charge and get 14 energy from each one this isn't that OP. kinda like saying energy storage is OP. sorry if i'm not seeing the whole thing but it isn't in serious need of a nerf right now, paragons still need a helping buff.
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Let me help you:
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Originally Posted by Guild Wars on Assassin's Promise
Elite Hex Spell. For 5...13...15 seconds, if target foe dies, you gain 5...17...20 Energy and all your skills are recharged.
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Masmar
Why don't we just remove secondary professions and all run single prof builds, cause that's what's meant to be done!
wait...
wait...
Lanier
Im really surprised there is so much resistence to nerfing AP. I mean it is kinda common knowledge that AP is one of the most overpowered skills in PvE. I have been advocating for awhile now for it to be nerfed like option 2 in the OP. This way, Assassin's promise would still function in the same way for sins, allowing them to use a longer recharging skill chain in PvE, but it would not be abuseable by other professions.
Cuilan
Assassins don't have any real use for Assassin's Promise in PvE. They have fast recharging attacks and energy management. The original poster I don't think has anything against necromancers MoP nuking.
jazilla
lolz. i can name you 20 other elites that need reworking before AP. Buff the Paragon or make splits for it? rework the ranger spirits in PvE?
Shayne Hawke
There's no point in the game even being divided into professions when there are builds that don't require any strong investment in the primary attributes or features of your class. Functional builds that can be copied from one class and used on every other class with little variation in skills and results should not have power that is significantly superior than a decent build on any class that is focused on doing something with their primary.
Assassin's Promise caller builds and SoS spam builds need to be hit hard, or be made more exclusive to the profession that they originate from.
Solution 1 might totally kill it. Solution 5 kills it for non-caster professions, because the other ones probably can find extra energy management from somewhere else. I don't see EVAS as the problem, so solution 3 wouldn't be suitable. Solution 2 would likely kill the skill, as there aren't enough useful skills with a long enough recharge for this to used. If assassins wanted to recharge their attacks on demand, they'd use Flourish instead.
Solution 4 is the only one of those that I see being reasonable, but even then, I wouldn't need to see the recharge lowered.
Assassin's Promise caller builds and SoS spam builds need to be hit hard, or be made more exclusive to the profession that they originate from.
Solution 1 might totally kill it. Solution 5 kills it for non-caster professions, because the other ones probably can find extra energy management from somewhere else. I don't see EVAS as the problem, so solution 3 wouldn't be suitable. Solution 2 would likely kill the skill, as there aren't enough useful skills with a long enough recharge for this to used. If assassins wanted to recharge their attacks on demand, they'd use Flourish instead.
Solution 4 is the only one of those that I see being reasonable, but even then, I wouldn't need to see the recharge lowered.
tcratty
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Originally Posted by SkekSister
Comparing AP to Ursan is ridiculous. You don't see teams of AP using secondary assassins tearing their way through DoA & UW. AP is the least of this game's problems. Dev time would be much better spent elsewhere.
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Lanier
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| Assassins don't have any real use for Assassin's Promise in PvE. They have fast recharging attacks and energy management. |
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| lolz. i can name you 20 other elites that need reworking before AP. Buff the Paragon or make splits for it? rework the ranger spirits in PvE? |
I really think that option 2 is the best for the skill. True it would significantly reduce the usefullness of AP but the skill would still be useful for certain Assassin attacks skills/chains.
And really, at this point, I dont care if AP gets nuked. Its better dead than it is in its current state.
Eragon Zarroc
meh, it's not used for farming, it's not overpowered dmg, it is an elite skill and therefore qualifies to be powerful, it doesn't need to be nerfed. please put ur nerf bat away and stop swinging before you break something you didn't intend to break >_<
FoxBat
EVAS isn't the only problem (hello Finish Him) but it's a HUGE, in fact THE biggest one. The damn thing is worth 400-600 damage. Most minions/spirits/pets etc are balanced by crap damage and slow attacks, the AP/EVAS combo lets you easily add 3-4 disposable assassin henchmen to your party. Even if just henchmen, that is hugely better than almost anything any caster can do. AP-MoP nuking has theoretically been around forever, it was just not that big a deal until they got their EVAS to spam alongside and trigger it. Limiting EVAS to one summon at a time would not fix everything, especially since the bulk is in their opening combo, but would go a very long way. Maybe if the summon failed if one already existed instead of replacing the old.
Because this is not abused by speed clears and is mostly an H/H build I doubt Anet will have the guts to do it, but I would very much like to see this addressed.
Because this is not abused by speed clears and is mostly an H/H build I doubt Anet will have the guts to do it, but I would very much like to see this addressed.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Lanier
It would still have its uses for sins. There are many powerful sin attack skills with 8-12 second recharges that arnt used because of those recharges. I have an AP build for my sin like this.
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The thing is, Death Blossom is simply the best Dual Attack for an Assassin in PvE and it has a short recharge - nothing but damage really matters that much when you're a physical and getting to DB in the shortest possible time is the best way to deal it.
With that in mind, the only skill I can see benefiting from a reduced recharge in this way is Jungle Strike (follow from Black Mantis Thrust and go into Death Blossom).
Arduin
I stopped caring about PvE balance after the SF nerf. It makes the game a lot more enjoyable.
Lanier
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
Flourish? I imagine that would help you more than AP and it's much more reliable.
The thing is, Death Blossom is simply the best Dual Attack for an Assassin in PvE and it has a short recharge - nothing but damage really matters that much when you're a physical and getting to DB in the shortest possible time is the best way to deal it. With that in mind, the only skill I can see benefiting from a reduced recharge in this way is Jungle Strike (follow from Black Mantis Thrust and go into Death Blossom). |
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| meh, it's not used for farming, it's not overpowered dmg, it is an elite skill and therefore qualifies to be powerful, it doesn't need to be nerfed. please put ur nerf bat away and stop swinging before you break something you didn't intend to break >_< |
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| I stopped caring about PvE balance after the SF nerf. It makes the game a lot more enjoyable. |
Tullzinski
OP Get off the nerf train it never stops. What is next after this one? When will you people learn that it will do no good?
FoxBat
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Originally Posted by Tullzinski
When will you people learn that it will do no good?
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Ginger Hunter
Personally I don't think anything is wrong with AP. Its the PvE skills that get used along side it that are OP and need hitting by the nerfbat. When the skill first came along only a handful of builds actually used it, such as AP nukers, although that came with the massive drawback, exhaustion.
So no I don't think it needs a nerf, but all the PvE skills that get used with it that need some kind of toning down.
So no I don't think it needs a nerf, but all the PvE skills that get used with it that need some kind of toning down.
ac1inferno
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Originally Posted by IronSheik
Nah, just remove all PvE skills from game.
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Lanier
They are both problematic. The PvE skills need to be nerfed, or preferably removed, but AP is part of the problem as well. Nerf both.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Lanier
but AP is part of the problem as well. Nerf both.
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FlyMoto
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Originally Posted by Morphy
Who cares. PvE is beyond repair.
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If we are going to begin toning down PvE, start by removing/nerfing virtually every PvE skill. Then stuff like AP (which would not be nearly as effective without the likes of OP PvE skills like YMLAD, FH, EVAS) can be considered.
chaosincarnate87
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
I'm pretty sure most of know that Asassin's Promise is OP in PvE. It reduces the need for one to know how to play a particular class. It's pretty sad that a lot of people consider the most effective build for multiple classes to be AP. So having that in mind maybe:
1) Move AP to assasin's primary line? 2) Modify AP to only effect assasin skills? (as noted by someone in another thread) 3) Modify Ebon Sin, so only one may be out at a time? 4) Modify AP so it only recharges other skills and not itself, but reduce it's recharge? 5) Modify the E gain? There are too many options to change this skill to note. AP as it stands allows players to avoid having to utilize their profession. Somewhat like a caster form of Ursan..if you will. Thanks!~Take care and Have fun~ |
Ok Snow...
1. We've had this discussion before you and I.. thought I talked sense into you then.
2. PvE is already RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed... Just keep ridin the train man, it's not gonna get better.
3. AP isnt the problem, it wouldnt EVER be used if it wasn't for discord, so nerf discord.
4. The build isn't used for any MAJOR farming builds or exploitive builds.
5. Nerfing PvE skills is only going to patch the problem it's not going to solve the Discord problem. and if you nerf the pve skills all the terribad players will QQ and then theres more crying threads we need to weed thru.
6. Remember after reading this how much you love me and don't kick me
7. Nerf discord anytime plz..
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by Tullzinski
OP Get off the nerf train it never stops. What is next after this one? When will you people learn that it will do no good?
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The OP is asking to kill a very gimmicky skill that allows for abusing the already overpowered pve skills, not some core game mechanic. Since Anet doesn't seem to want to listen to pve skill changes on guru (except when there's 4 threads on riverside with a mass bitchfest), just making AP recharge only sin skills would stop the abuse.
Since primary sins never use this skill anyway, I don't see what's the big deal in making this skill "useless"
/signed for suggestion 2
Lishy
Why nerf things for PvE anyways? All it does is force us to use the next batch of skills.
And things like Discord aren't overpowered from what I can see. It already requires both a condition AND a hex. What else should be done to it? Make it deal psis damage?
What is overpowered is playing smart. Not Discord. Not Assassin's Promise. Whatever.
But the only reason to nerf in PvE is to shaken up the meta. And I really don't see how nerfing AP will make things more fun. Furthermore, I'm getting quite tired of people complaining left and right that "___ IS THE EASY MODE BUTTON!" and that "HARD MODE IS TOO EASY!" Honestly, I seem to doubt that some of these people have even played the game before they request for a change. Because there is nothing easy about vanquishing the entire game to all players, even with skills like Signet of Spirits.
Another thing that grinds my gears is people complaining about PvE skills killing the game. How so, I ask? Because one moment people are moaning about how they aren't being chosen for elite areas, and the next they're complaining because the newest skills in the game can be used by any profession? WTF?
If players want an impossibly challenging game, go play mushihimesama on the highest difficulty. Guild Wars is an rpg. And guild wars is not a game that can be made "harder" just like that more than it already is without becoming frustrating.
And things like Discord aren't overpowered from what I can see. It already requires both a condition AND a hex. What else should be done to it? Make it deal psis damage?
What is overpowered is playing smart. Not Discord. Not Assassin's Promise. Whatever.
But the only reason to nerf in PvE is to shaken up the meta. And I really don't see how nerfing AP will make things more fun. Furthermore, I'm getting quite tired of people complaining left and right that "___ IS THE EASY MODE BUTTON!" and that "HARD MODE IS TOO EASY!" Honestly, I seem to doubt that some of these people have even played the game before they request for a change. Because there is nothing easy about vanquishing the entire game to all players, even with skills like Signet of Spirits.
Another thing that grinds my gears is people complaining about PvE skills killing the game. How so, I ask? Because one moment people are moaning about how they aren't being chosen for elite areas, and the next they're complaining because the newest skills in the game can be used by any profession? WTF?
If players want an impossibly challenging game, go play mushihimesama on the highest difficulty. Guild Wars is an rpg. And guild wars is not a game that can be made "harder" just like that more than it already is without becoming frustrating.
wilebill
With all due respect, I know you were trying to be helpful.
But this kind of nerf request comes very close to "global griefing." Start a campaign to nerf a skill that many players like to use and thus cause them unhappiness. No, just no.
GW has lost too much of its player base over the years due to injudicious use of the nerf bat. Let's just not go there again.
But this kind of nerf request comes very close to "global griefing." Start a campaign to nerf a skill that many players like to use and thus cause them unhappiness. No, just no.
GW has lost too much of its player base over the years due to injudicious use of the nerf bat. Let's just not go there again.
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by Lishy
Why nerf things for PvE anyways? All it does is force us to use the next batch of skills.
And things like Discord aren't overpowered from what I can see. It already requires both a condition AND a hex. What else should be done to it? Make it deal psis damage? |
Pve skills and cons have diluted the game where it takes absolutly no skill or effort to clear an area. You don't need to change your bar to counter specific mobs, you just need more cons. Even in the elite areas, the only "skills" you need is the knowledge where specific mobs pop up and how to ball them. If you don't think that's poor game design, then stop reading my posts.
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Originally Posted by Lishy
But the only reason to nerf in PvE is to shaken up the meta. And I really don't see how nerfing AP will make things more fun.
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Originally Posted by Lishy
Because there is nothing easy about vanquishing the entire game to all players, even with skills like Signet of Spirits.
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Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by chaosincarnate87
3. AP isnt the problem, it wouldnt EVER be used if it wasn't for discord, so nerf discord.
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Lanier
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
If the PvE skills were removed or nerfed to oblivion, how is AP still problematic?
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Really, I still don't understand all of the opposition to this suggestion. PvE may be in a state of disrepair but that is not a reason for not trying to fix it. Skill balances are healthy for the game and nerfs are necessary to slow down power creep. AP is overpowered. Therefore, it needs to be nerfed. It is that simple.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Lanier
PvE skills arnt the only skills abuseable by AP. Others like MoP can be abused as well.
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The other common use of AP is to recharge some of the Ele fire and earth skills and it's laughable to say that's overpowered and cause for concern. What else could I sensibly do on a caster? Maintain Aegis and help fuel a few other prots?