Dear Arenanet: Please expedite paragon fixes

Got no use for money. Not because I'm rich (I'm not), but because I have no interest in paying for vanity armor/weapons/minis/whatever, and I never have.

You think running cons is a punishment for not using AR?
Because it isn't. Pies are superior to AR.
That's why I farm them, and farming a year's worth is stupidly easy.
I have them, so I'm going to use them.

Since you didn't seem to get it the first time:
In other words, freeing a skill slot is not the only reason to use Pies. It's the gravy.

I'll give you the answer to my question, since you simply dodge/smokescreen/don't get it: There IS no reason for me to bring AR, when I have pies.

Fair enough, maybe I should revise my previous statement that AR is the best IAS in the game. AR is the best IAS skill in the game. Its not like I ever said that you should use AR over your pies.

Lanier, this is simply not true even with a casual examination. Typical spear skills top out at +18 damage or so, while Warrior/Ranger/Dervish/Assassin attack skills typically range up to +36 damage at the same weapon mastery spec, not counting dual strikes or strength bonus or critical hits. The only spear attack skills which deal more damage are those with 3s activation time (useless) or elite skills which range up to +25 or so. This is still less than the warrior/derv/assassin equivalents though it looks similar to what the ranger has. The paragon's attack skills are not as strong as the other professions even though autoattacks may do similar damage.

no, because paragon has less bonus damage and no AoE at all.

this is certainly true, and this is the key issue IMO. The multiple attack capability of the other professions (scythes, whirlwind attack, hundred blades, barrage, volley, dual attacks) trigger multiple packets of damage from Mark of Pain, Splinter Weapon, Barbs, Strength of Honor, Orders, Great Dwarf Weapon, Asuran Scan, etc. and vastly increase the damage output. Without any multi-attack capability paragon cannot compete with any of those professions.

Hopefully I have made it clear why paragon is inferior to the other damage dealers in PvE, I don't think anything I said is news to anyone. Single target damage does not cut it in PvE where AoE is everything, even on physical damage dealers. Splinter Weapon, GDW, Hundred Blades, Whirlwind Attack, Barrage, Death Blossom and Critscythe should be adequate proof of this if anyone still has doubts.

BTW the ranger's damage potential is not bad at all, he can deliver mass damage with splinter barrage or high single target damage with things like Glass Arrows + Triple Shot + Asuran Scan. He can even do both in the same build. What I want for paragon is equality with the ranger, I don't think that is asking for too much.

I'v already admitted that Assassins along with their critical strike and dual strikes have a higher dps than spear chucking paragons.

The strait up damage spear attacks:

Spear of Lightning - @14 Spear Mastery, does +20 damage + the 25% ar penetration which adds a buttload of damage in HM. Go give it a try.

Blazing Spear - @14 Spear Mastery, does +66 damage taking into account the burning.

Cruel Spear - @14 Spear Mastery, does +29 damage + deep wound.

Stunning Strike - @14 Spear Mastery, does +28 damage

Spear of Fury - Does +30-40 damage

I'm also going to go ahead and mention Harrier's Toss. It takes some skill to meet the condition but I have given it a try in some recent Vanquishes and found that enemies do in fact move around a bit. All enemies move when you first engage them. Melee enemies move to close into their targets (usually your parties caster's thanks to the way the AI in this game is). Caster's typically try to kite the enemy, causing them to follow and move again. In addition, I was surprised at how often enemy casters moved to get away from my melees. Harrier's Toss is a little clunky to use due to the energy cost but with a couple of adrenal shouts/chants, energy is a piece of cake to manage. It takes some skill to use but should you get the additional bonus damage from Harrier's Toss, the damage potential is close to that of Blazing Spear's.


That is 5 attack skills that do a high amount of bonus damage. Add to that the fact that spear is ranged (whereas scythes and warrior weapons are not).

Paragon's single target DPS is very potent.

Oh, and I would disagree that in a generic PvE H/H setting when you are not trying to ball up enemies, that AoE is everything. In fact, I would say that is is not all that important. Usually, I have found that enemies do not choose the same targets when they attack. Melee enemies tend to choose minions to attack or any of the backliners. They certainly don't stay together. Ranged enemies are more often likely to stay together but I usually don't see more than two of them adjacent to each other at a time. That certainly doesn't make AoE "everything".

So after reading this post I sat down and did some paragoning. Using some of the skills you suggested I did far less than adequate damage. At most I would hit 80 damage and that was rare (I usually hit around 40-60 per attack skill).
Foes were generally shrugging off my blows.

With any other physical class I would have been killing these foes quickly and by myself. As it was my heroes and henchmen had to clean up after me since I was doing to little damage over too long of a time.

At least if there was AoE available to me I would be able to do the same amount of damage to a few bunched up foes at once. And there are many instances throughout Guild Wars in normal and hard mode where foes are in great numbers and in a bunch even if you aren't tanking and spanking. Especially if you have a balanced team consisting of a front and backline.

Hmm...

Well I guess we are just going to have agree to disagree on our standards for offensive dps. Personally, I have had much success with my paragon and his strait up offensive builds. I'm not going to try to explain why our experiences were different because honestly, I don't know why. Still, from my experiences playing as a paragon, it seems to me as though I am just as potent as I am playing as a derv or warrior.

I suppose so.

Although as much as I would like to see a spear mastery buff I think if they can work out making their support better I will still be happy. I can always run a dagger,scythe or hammer build if I want to up the ante on damage.

Abour AR, -20 armor is +40 % damages. When I take 50 damages, I would have taken 70. It's not a good thing, as with a H/H party I usually take first aggro from casters. And while in the battle, well I won't waste 25-e and 2 secs just to be sure to be interrupted, will I ? I'm more to rely on shouts than on chants for this double reason (time/interrupt).

About last argument about paragon/warrior comparison, I'm definitively sure warrior is best dps, because of two facts :
- sword and axe are faster than spear. Any buff will work more often.
- I'm sure there is no ranged buff as good as melee buff like strength of honor. So that's a great improve to sword/axe.

Sure warriors can land less hits if the targets run away, but paragons too, as moving targets usually dodge.

AoE or not AoE is another problem. As a dervish I just seem to have to wait in order to time my AoE, so it's not a good thing as I'm wasting time to make circumstances good. Also if the party can dispatch the mob quickly AoE are good. If the party can't, well individual spikes are best, with healer/rezer first targets.

there are at least three other advantages for warrior:
- skills which attack multiple foes or hit a foe multiple times (ie. more damage packets)
- skills which deal AoE damage on each hit (hundred blades)
- armor penetration on every attack skill (strength)

One thing that a lot of people overlook is the fact that single-target physical damage can be shut down very easily with any number of blocking skills, blind spam, weakness, miss hexes, snaring, etc. If you have some form of AoE then you continue to deal damage despite these adverse conditions.... death nova from a minion bomber will still be damaging and poisoning many foes, splinter weapon and hundred blades will still be damaging all adjacent. You can see this for yourself in places such as Slaver's Exile where there are usually multiple healers in the opposing groups. You attack one healer, the other healer prots him and nothing much happens. AoE helps to out-pressure the opposing team in such situations since the opposing force is unlikely to be able to heal all of the damage.

If you want to see more examples of physical damage shutdown try out Shards of Orr or fight some raptors with your single-target dps team. I'm betting that you will not be happy with the results. :-)

Well damage is damage and it gets the job done eventually. I mean even wand damage can kill an enemy. This is more about the design of the paragon being obtuse. I mean in GW2 they're putting auto combos of warrior skills that naturally go together, well you can't really do the same with a paragon since the skills are so clunky. They have little in the way of deep offensive combos. It feels like it just has the generic spear skills you'd slightly augment a build with, rather than the core. This is one thing they need to work on imo, if only a handful of changes.

The other things seem simpler to me. Nerf SY's armor gain by half, rebuff Incoming a bit. Buff the unused shouts and chants a small amount.

The other problem I think is that like many expansion classes paragons don't have much dual profession synergy. They mostly use their own skills. But that's too late to fix imo without introducing another 20 skills.

I like this skill but it doesn't work with Orders, Barbs, Mark of Pain, etc.

Blazing Spear is great, no argument there.

It's elite, less damage than Eviscerate, and conditional. :-(
The only advantage it has vs. Eviscerate is range.

I like this one too, but 10 adrenaline means that there will be plenty of times when you can't fire it early enough to stop incoming damage from a caster.

This one is awesome... ranged Dragon Slash. But it's a PVE skill, it is supposed to be awesome.

The other spear skills I was thinking of when I wrote that message are Vicious Attack, Wild Throw, Holy Spear, Spear of Redemption. They all have useful effects aside from pure damage, but the damage is +20 at 15 spear mastery. Warrior and Dervish attack skills at 15 weapon mastery are usually dealing +40 bonus damage. Let's not even discuss Assassin dual attack skills which deal +40 (x2) or +60 (x2) Doesn't seem fair to me. :-(

Fair enough, but why would I want to pay 10e per shot in order to "maybe" equal the damage from Blazing Spear? 10e is okay on a ranger who pays half price or less on every skill. Not so great on a paragon or even a dervish or assassin.

I agree, their single target DPS is okay, but it is inferior to any of the alternatives. :-(

And none of them are ranged. None of them have the team-buffing utility Paragon has to go with it. Dervish and Assassin don't have the armor (well, Assassin does with Critical Agility). The only reason they CAN have this utility is to go /W and bring SY! which is a broken PvE skill.

Paragon's problem is still that it can do too much to let it shine very well at any one thing. Ranged attacks mean its damage can't be too high or it will make melee pointless (Rangers have the same problem). The existence of SY! makes every other Paragon shout skill, possibly save TNTF!, virtually worthless... not to mention that SY! scales not on any attribute, but on faction, so the other classes aren't even having to use attribute points to use it effectively. Similarly, if you buff the chants/shouts too much, Paragon will outshine other classes very quickly by offering reasonable damage on top of party buffs at a higher armor level. The only thing which can compete on some level then would be a Ritualist.

It's very amusing to see people ranting that paragons are overpowered because they can make the best use of another profession's PVE skill, namely Save Yourselves. If SY is a problem it is because of SY itself, not the paragon.

I believe that in GW one ought to be able to make viable teams with all casters or all ranged attackers if desired. Melee attackers should not be necessary at all unless you want to use them... however many seem to think that other classes can't be powerful or they will "make melee pointless" as you describe. No one is forcing you to take elementalists or mesmers, by the same token why should you be forced to take melee to do decent damage?

Ive said it before, and I think many Paragon fans will agree. Go ahead and nerf SY!, just give us some better offensive/defensive utility.

I honestly wouldn't mind a nerf to all of the PvE only skills in this vein (sunspear and faction based). Tie them all to the main attribute of the class that they are for. Then tone them down.

If they tied the SS/faction based skills to thier primary profession, then I dont see a need to tone them down. IMO, the only skills that are problematic are SY! and Aura of Holy Might. And thats because they are exploited by other professions.

hey guys let's not let this turn into another "SY is OP" thread. :-)

We are trying to find ways to make paragons better, not ways to make SY worse. If SY is nerfed and no other changes are made then paragons would probably disappear from the meta completely.

I don't think anyone is saying that no other changes should be make to the paragon, however SY is bound to be mentioned and talked about a lot consider it is THE most important part of fixing paragon as a class.

Hell, I would run the imbagon build itself even if SY! gave +40 health. It's still be a damn solid build, if ya ask me.

But the point is even if changes to the paragon were made and done right, if SY! is not changed they will be stuck in that role no matter what.

too picky...
I say paragons work just fine now. They are designed to be a support-type profession, and thats what all these imbagons are doing.
And if you want to be aggressive and attack, they are fully capable of doing so quite efficiently if you pay attention to what skills work together well. Spear chucking paragons are useful if they are played correctly. Hell, they work good with hammers/swords/axes/daggers too if you want to try it out.

Many fans and Anet would disagree. Paragons should excel in support/utility like you said, I dont think anyone had frontline in mind when they were created.

However, notice they say non-Imbagon. Does this mean they wont change SY!? I have a feeling once they start messing with other skill combos, SY! may need some nerfing. This is by far a QQ about SY! being too powerful. More importantly, as Imbagon stands now we need a damn good reason to take another build. If they were to give a motivation line buff or a command line buff that provides offense and is as coveted as an Imbagon, they would be way OP. Hence the concern to tweak SY!. I agree with Axel, even if SY! was reduced drastically, Imbagon would still be a solid build, and would still be wanted in high end PvE. I dont even think SY! giving +40 armor is unreasonable, that brings a monks armor up to 100ar. If your casters need more armor than that, your not doing something right.

With the current meta, there isnt much room for two Paragons in a party. But if Imbagon were slightly less effective or even unchanged, and Paragons had more than one viable utility build, there would be plenty of room. I couldnt imagine a Paragon update w/o buffing motivation. If SY! stays the same, could you imagine a newly buffed Motigon and an Imbagon spamming TNTF and a lux/kurz SY! chain?

I hate to use a Rt as an example, because there is alot of debate about it being OP. But no one turns down a Rt anymore. They have a lot of options to bring to a group. You can go SoS, Communing, DwG, and thier Restoration line aint shabby either. Add a Rt/N minion bomber and thats easily 5 roles a Rt can bring to a group. Im not asking this of a Paragon, but is 2 or 3 roles too much to ask for?

Yes, I can imagine, because I vanquished Ascalon that way... before they nerfed Motivation into oblivion. There are still some good skills there but many have been made useless. Paragon healers used to be able to do a decent job but they are shut down easily... any form of blocking, blinding, miss hexes, anti-adrenaline hexes, etc. makes them pretty useless because without adrenaline their adrenaline-to-energy conversion shuts down. Because of this problem I would consider Monks and Ritualists to always be superior healers as they are better able to deal with adversity and they have more energy to start with. Having used one extensively, my opinion is that paragon healers are only useful in a team with other paragons... the constant rain of shouts and anthems make the few decent motivation skills shine.

Actually I am glad you brought this up because I think that Ritualists and Paragons are very similar from a design standpoint... ritualist is the caster version of paragon, and paragon is the physical version of ritualist. Both can deal direct damage, both can provide unstrippable party support (with weapon spells, spirits, shouts, anthems, refrains), both of them have healing ability, including mass healing. When you draw a direct comparison between the two the imbalance becomes pretty obvious.

paragon:
direct damage (spear): poor
offensive support (anthems): good
defensive support (imbagon, etc): excellent
healing/energy: poor
farming: poor

ritualist:
direct damage (SoS, DwG, Spirit's Strength): excellent
offensive support (weapon spells): good
defensive support (shelter, union, displacement, etc.): excellent
healing/energy: good
farming: excellent

The professions shouldn't be exactly equal but there should be good reasons to play each profession. At the moment there are plenty of things that ritualists are good at and only one thing that paragons are good at. This is the definition of imbalance.

I think the paragon is in need of a total re-invisioning.
How about Motivation actually is be about motivating instead of half-baked almost healing?
They don't need to be overpowering, but how about a shout that gives the party a 10% IAS for 8 seconds with a 12s recharge?
They can be balanced or have trade-offs as well. How about spells recharge 40% quicker but attack skills recharge 25% slower?
Why not make song of restoration take effect over time. +1h, +1e for 12s, with 30s recharge. Make Song of purifcation act like the rit spirit Recovery?

Command is pretty balanced since the GtfE buff (along with others) so it doesn't need anything.

Spear Mastery needs tweaks. I believe that while paras have decent dmg output with the spear, it's not equal to the 2e pip deficit and having to use an armor reducing IAS to be effective. Players severely restict their multiclassing ability by choosing a para and shouts alone don't make up for this. Get rid of the absurd casting times of the unblockable throws (increase cost if it bothers), decrease cost of wild throw (complete buff, no tradeoff please) and make the elites worth bringing. The two Spear elites are probably two of the most useless attack elites in the game. Stunning Strike has an adrenaline cost that makes it impractical for heavy use and Cruel Spear's conditional use needs to go. Like I said, increase the cost of Cruel Spear if you fear heavy abuse.

Leadership. I love the energy gain in 8 person groups, but I would like it tweaked to provide the same energy in a 4 or 6 person area. It stinks to be punished for trying to vq early areas. Also please decrease cost of hexbreaker aria or better yet make it a 15e skill. With a lot of the more difficult content in NF, EotN, and WiK having adrenal and shout shutdown, it's not fair that paras more than any other class are rendered useless and only a burden on their teams in these areas.

The single best thing that they can do for paras in the short-term and would have the most immediate effect would be to move TPiY from Motivation to Command and increase the time it's in effect. This would make the dagger/scythe spammer builds suitable for team play in advanced areas and would solve the "only one build" issue.

This is another thing that bothers me about paragons. It only takes one hex to completely make you useless. And often this hex is MAINTAINABLE and is packed on several foes in the opposing party. So basically if your planning on clearing a specific area with mobs that have these skills you either have to be ready to be useless or have excellent hex/condition removal on tap (which still will leave you useless for periods of time because most likely your friends/heroes/hench won't get around to removal right away).

I think the stuff that specifically targets and shuts down paragons should get toned down.

They should either do that or make it so that paragons are not married to adrenaline. Soothing images could be nerfed (longer recharge, more energy), and that would help.

I hate in Ravenheart Gloom or when facing Riders in Asuralands that they will ignore whoever aggroed and everything else to dive in and hex the imba.

There are several possible fixes, but they need to happen.

Eh, my biggest problem with the paragon is that so many of their shouts/chants are so absurdly conditional or situational. Although this problem effects the motivation line worse than the command line, there are still plenty of command shouts that need fixing. Im thinking of ones like brace yourself, godspeed, and can't touch this. There are also several skills that are fine in PvP but flat out underpowered in the PvE setting. The ones that come to mind immediately are bladeturn refrain and all of the elites. Its pretty bad when not one of the elites is of any use in the general PvE setting.

Err, do you ever use Cruel Spear? It is practically unconditional. I mean the condition is soooo easy to meet that I don't even really consider it any more. As it is, Cruel Spear is a ranged version of eviscerate that costs one adrenaline less. That is pretty good. I use it quite often and I never, never, never find the condition to be of any inconvenience at all.

I'm not quite sure how the dagger/scythe spam builds first caught on. They arn't really any better than spear builds and even if they were, using your elite on Tpiy is kind of a waste when energy can be maintained through other, non-elite methods (i use gfte, anthem of flame, and glowing signet on my scythe builds). This opens up room for an elite scythe attack like reapers sweep. But anyway... Don't you think that it would be better to solve the one build issue by promoting spear use rather than by promoting dagger/scythe use?

While I agree that it should take more than just one maintainable hex to shut paragons down, what really should they do to skills like soothing images and vocal minority? Neither of these skills is overpowered and nerfing them would kill a couple of well balanced skills. I think that instead, Anet needs to give some options for self-hex removal in the same way they gave remedy signet for self-condition removal. Maybe remedy signet can remove both a condition and hex from self (with an increased recharge to balance it) and an maybe one of the elite condition removals (paragons certainly have more of them than they need) can be changed into an elite hex removal instead.

Another change that I really, really want to see is for Angelic Bond to get reverted to its original behavior, except with a cost of 5 energy rather than 10. I remember enjoying playing the role of the protter in my group with skills like Angelic Bond, Angelic protection, and some defensive shouts like Stand your ground and tntf... good times, good times.

I don't completely agree. CTT buffed would be nice, but it gets the job done as is. Brace yourself is pretty useless, but how often are you really going to give up a spot on your bar for knockdown prevention, especially with I am Unstoppable as a cheap skill for individuals? Godspeed is a wasted skill, but I don't see how they can buff it without copying the other 4 "make someone run faster" skills.
I agree with the elites and BT refrain, they are just kinda...there.



I'm still for removing the condition, because given how gimped the spear line is, I think they need every little bit they can get.

I tried dagger spam and tried even 100b for giggles to research what I would want changed. I found the att. spread on dagger spam really underpowered it. Which is why I suggest moving TPiY to command or leadership.
As for why bring TPiY, it's a good thing when running Discordway or playing with casters. I would like to see it buffed because it's currently substandard for e-replenishing; but I see the logic in it.

Fixxing spear mastery is a fix for the one build issue, but it also doesn't "feel" right. Just OP'ing spears will just make them a ranger replacement. One idea that occurs to me is to indirectly buff Spear Mastery with shouts and chants that take effect over time. ie Next 1..3..4 spear attacks do +9...14...18 dmg.
Ideally I would like to see the shouts in Leadership since they are prof. specific, but I don't know which ones they could use.


I actually think nerfing soothing images and vocal min. would be harmless because you almost never see a human using these skills. Well balanced or not, they are primarily used by monsters in PvE. I don't think you'd see a single person QQ over their ruined build if Soothing Images or Vocal Minority disappeared. (especially VM, which was created specifically for PvE monsters to use against paras). You don't see a hex skill that prevents an enemy from casting fire magic do you?

I admit that I missed the AnBo days because I was still playing my ranger a lot. The skill isn't too bad now, but a nice buff to get it into people's bars again would be nice.

I'm gonna have to disagree STRONGLY that these dagger/scythe builds aren't any better than spear builds. I play dag spam all the time and it's night and day as far as damage goes. Go for the eyes is a godsend when it comes to dealing damage on paragons and maintaining energy.

Also Tpiy is good because it gives you your leadership bonus often (just as often as go for the eyes) and helps (albeit somewhat slightly) everyone else's energy.

Promoting spear use is important but I don't think that every possible other weapon build should be nerfed to further this end.

In general they aren't over powered but in their niche they completely destroy the specific class they are designed to go against. Also generally human players don't run these skills (in pve).

The way I see it you could actually buff these skills for players by modifying them a little and help out paragons at the same time. Make vocal minority more like backfire and cause damage when you shout. Make soothing images have degen and SLOW your adrenaline gain rather than halt it entirely (target foes gain 1/2 the adrenaline they would normally gain).

That way you're not nerfing them so much as you are changing them to suit players better.

I never capped that skill because by the time I started using my paragon regularly it was useless.

I'm not suggesting nerfing scythe and dagger builds.

I recognize that if u want to buff your party, tpiy would be a decent option but it isn't necessary for maintaining energy. In my scythe build, I use anthem of flame + glowing signet and gfte and this leaves space open for one of the powerful scythe elites.

You should try blazing finale. If your using that in conjunction with gfte you'll keep everything constantly on fire and won't have to recast the anthem.

Anyway yea it's not necessary but it's half decent. I don't think a buff (2 pips of regen?) would make it overpowered either.

"The Power Is Yours!" is one of those skills like looks like a completely worthless elite at first glance but it is an incredibly powerful leadership trigger engine. I really love the scythe build that utilizes it.

reasons why TPIY is good:
1) it's a shout and has no activation time
2) only costs adrenaline, thus gives the paragon energy on every use
3) ends quickly, so it triggers refrains and finales
4) gives +1 energy to everyone in the group

unfortunately, Go For The Eyes provides benefits 1,2,3 without using your elite slot, and 4 is hardly worth an elite slot. If the party really needs energy would you rely on a TPIY paragon or bring a necromancer with Blood is Power? Yeah, that's what I thought. TPIY needs a major buff imo, even in PvP. Lyric of Zeal gives 6 energy to everyone @ 10 motivation, providing they have a signet to use. If the conditions are met this skill gives at least six times the energy gain of the elite skill TPIY. :-\

I would be happy if they changed Hexbreaker Aria to: Chant. For 10 seconds, the next time each ally within earshot casts a skill, that ally loses 0..1..2 hexes. Kept the adrenaline cost and casting time. As it is now, its only helps casters. There are alot of PvE foes that carry anti-adrenaline/physical hate hexes. And this change wouldnt be OP, because for the most part a paragon would still rely on others for hex removal. Ironically, many hexes prevent paragons from using thier own hex removal. You could give it an energy cost to prevent this. But, if it cost energy it would have to be tied to Leadership with 0 hexes removed with 0-3 leadership, so other classes could not exploit it.

My reason for wanting a buff, is because unlike condition removal, there arent many options for hex removal. And if a Paragon is supposed to be about support, at least one good hex removal couldnt hurt.

hey guys, I have compiled a list of proposed changes to various paragon skills which I am preparing to send to the Arenanet dev team so they can lol at me. :-D I'd appreciate it if you could give me some feedback. A lot of the changes may seem familiar because most of them have been discussed on gwg at one point or another.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:Khome..._skill_changes

Anthem of Guidence is meh. I'd like it better if it was an ias or added damage as well.

Angelic Bond looks cool but recharge is a bit long. 5 secs? Give it an adrenal cost (6-8 adren?).

I'd up the blocking to 75% for Defensive anthem.

Aria of zeal and restoration I'd make it skill rather than spell.

Also I'd tone down mighty throws AoE.

Overall I think those would be good changes though.

Okay thanks for the input! :-)
In response to your comments...

The changes to Anthem of Guidance were intended to make it useful without changing the basic function of the skill, making attacks unblockable. Besides that a global maintainable IAS would be pretty OP. then again, we have essence of celerity doing this already...

Angelic Bond was supposed to be 10e, 1s, 10r... if i botched it I will have to fix the page. The idea is to have a Shelter-like effect that covers the whole party, but it wears off on each party member after it reduces damage from an attack, so it is not invincibility by any means. I think it fits the intent of the skill and is useful without being overpowered.

Defensive Anthem is 50% because the original was 50% blocking. I thought that reducing the recharge was enough, because it is unstrippable... but since the non-elite Aegis can replicate this functionality, is 50% blocking really worth the elite slot? Maybe only in special cases like fighting Mallyx. We already have precedent for mass 75% blocking with the ritualist spirit Displacement so I don't think 75% is unreasonable.

Aria of Zeal and Aria of Restoration maintain the original intent of those skills, ie. triggering on spells only. There are other motivation skills that trigger on attacks, signets, etc. I agree that it would be better to have more generally useful and less specialized skills though.

Mighty Throw does have some AoE damage but it's not really that serious, it's similar to what you get with the ranger's Splinter Shot or one pulse of Ancestor's Rage or a hit from Splinter Weapon or Golden Phoenix Strike. It's less than half of what you get from Death Blossom. The spear buffs I suggested are intended to take the spear paragon from the "lol" category into the "decent" or "good" category. I don't think any changes I suggested could possibly take them into the "excellent" category, e.g. Hundred Blades, Critscythe, Death Blossom, AoHM, etc.

Maybe Anthem of Guidance can be turned into something like orders for ranged attackers?

something like...

10en
1ct

for 5 seconds, ranged attacks do 5...15...18 and projectiles move twice as fast.

that sounds good too, but it would mean losing the unique functionality of this elite skill; no other skill can make all attackers unblockable. Also remember that your proposal would stack with Orders, Barbs, etc. which could be a lot of damage. Then again, Strength of Honor stacks with all of those things already.

I love the list, but I also know that Anet likes a little give and take.

Angelic Bond might be overpowered a tad, but I like it and it sounds fair.
TPiY will be frequently abused but I like the short duration (for the give)
Spear of Redemption is begging for abuse though. It can't remove a condition stack but a low cost attack that also removes conditions. If you want Anet to seriously consider that one up the cost to 4a (trying to be impartial).

Bladeturn Refrain is very buffed up. I can see paragons bringing it to DoA Glaiveway and reading about GW players' heads exploding the next morning in the paper. It needs a longer recharge or else a smart para will refrain the whole party, which will make Ursan look like leet-skills required.

Also never surrender is practically party-wide mending. I know there are a lot of pve buffs and consumables that make it seem like nothing, but again, ex-perma farmers bursting veins and bleeding to death when ambraces start going for less than z-keys.


Other than that I love EVERYTHING, even the ones I think are overpowered.
It would be interesting to see this and see the return of the 8 para FoW clear (Singers of Woe back in the day)

Yea it's a shame we probably won't be seeing any changes like this for 6 months+.

Oh I doubt it will be that long Bel. The Dervish update is completely and is in test already. They are still not sure what they want to do for Paras so Khomet's wishlist is a very good idea. It gives them an idea what the players would like to see.
After that it's not too hard, especially since Khomet is not suggesting drastic changes, and even references other skills for similar effects.
The only drastic changes are Ballads and Anthems that affect multiple attacks, Angelic Bond reverting to old (not quite), and sustainable shouts in the Command line.
While all this would mean drastic changes in game and what's considered "meta"; the mechanics of this shouldn't be too stressful for Anet.
Unlike Rits that totally changed the mechanics of the skills, or even the mesmer update which saw drastic changes.
Most of Khomet's suggestions involve removing absurd conditions and changing numerical values (recharge, cost, and time). Anyone who's done coding knows the last is not difficult and the conditional arguements can simply be deleted.

The only hard part for Anet will be testing and weighing a deserved buff vs. shutting out other builds.

To be honest, I think this buff will be hardest on warriors and rangers. Hopefully Anet can toss them a few bones (reduced recharge times and cast times, etc.)