Languages in districts: cause for discrimination?

Cultural differences aren't new to anyone, but it seems that even in Guild Wars, people can't accept different languages in their district.

I've been playing for quite a long time now, 3 years to be more exact and i've been finding my "cosy spot" in the european english district of Kamadan.

Now it has been so that there have been alot of different languages here in kamadan and probably everywhere really, that different languages are used there. English, German, Dutch, Italian, French and other foreign European languages, all in the same district.

It would seem that some people do not want other languages in their district, a distinct patriotism wants that 'their' English district stays English and that other languages are not welcome there.

So now i'm wanting to open the debate on this. As a Belgian player i have always spoken English publically to other people and when needed, switched language to communicate with other people.

Do districts really need to be specific, language-bound? Or do other people here accept other people in their districts to have a conversation in their language.

Please note that not all languages have their districts, there have already been discussions about the Dutch invading other districts but there are more than just the Dutch that are left districtless, like the Finish, Danish, Swedish, etc,...

So right now as i'm typing there is already a discussion going on, what started out as a small argumentation of the Dutch language not being welcome in the English district is now going on as a full scale flamewar with the typical "We have this, so we are better than you" discussion.

What are the people's thoughts on multicultural differences?
Are we to just shove all these people to international, to throw all these different languages into one district, resulting into one large "goo" of mixed languages where the old communication medium can only be used to communicate between other languages: English.

It's a tightrope, but don't let this be a taboo.
I hope i can get some constructive comments on this and hope we can get to an understanding. Because we are all under the same large banners, American, European, Asian, African or Australian.

or we could just ignore the bores who flame about other languages in a district.

The different districts are there for people's convenience. I don't mind if a group of Dutch players are speaking in All Chat in the English District. firstly becaue i know they don't have their own district, and secondly because who am I to say that they can not speak their own language there?

The districts are only an option. If players feel like it is their right to communicate in whatever language, other players also have the right to oppose. And by oppose, it should be so that they kindly ask to respect the district but carry on if they must.

Treat others as you wish for them to treat you.

I see no debate on this, to be honest. It fundamentally goes down to people's ignorance and their lack of respect over the internet.

It's a two-way street.

Either delete language-specific districts, or keep the things as they are and bear with 'I didn't join X district to hear incomprehensible babble!'.

I see it happen from time to time, but it doesn't bother me at all. People can flame and rant all they want for all I care, I'll just sit back with some popcorn and laugh at their stupidity.

I don't care what nationality you are, as long as you speak English when trying to converse with me.

-I actually don't mind it. If anything I'm getting more cultured by reading (or rather, attempting to read) a different language.

Doesn't bother me at all, plus I've learned how to buy and sell stuff in German. If 'all' chat gets a bit too spammy for my liking (no matter what language), I just turn it off.
I guess those who complain are just trolls. Ignore list is super effective.

Also, remember when the European English district was changed to European Common? There was plenty of uproar about that and the majority of complaints were along the lines of "I don't want to see any other language in MY district!". I think the common district only lasted about 1 month before being reverted back to English.

Not long ago, me as an SS, a Rit and a War got pulled into a mostly eastern European group for a ZB. They were speaking some language I didn't understand and only one of them was able to (shakily) translate but I was able to pick up enough GW terminology to know what they wanted me to bring, so the language barrier wasn't a problem.

All the way to the dungeon, the War was bitching about the language being used, even though the translator was telling him everything he needed to know. There was obviously more chatter going on, but it didn't bother me because stuff was getting done and the group seemed to be working well. Half way into the dungeon the War, our only melee, lets loose this stupid rant and quits because of the language issue. Still, after a little trouble with one monk getting gliched into place (we managed to get him free), we finished the dungeon.

As you've probably guessed, the member of the party that annoyed me was one I could understand perfectly.

That wasn't the first time I've successfully grouped with players who don't speak my language. I'm English, I've played for four years and it wasn't always so easy to jump to the American server and find people speaking my language. Playing with French, German, Dutch etc. players can still be fun and you can still accomplish whatever you're setting out to do.

Well, I expect in English district people speaking English, in German people speaking German, and so on. It's a curtesy to speak the language of the place you are, no ?

Almost everybody in the world learned (or even is learning) English at scholl, and English is the international language. Most important sites are either in English or partly in English. People not able to speak Korean, Japanse, Chinese, French, German or Spanish should make efforts to speak English, as it's really unacceptable to not be able to communicate in English today.

As an avid ha and gvger of some time the language barrier has never bothered me mainly because I knew my role and what I had to do even if I could not understand what they were saying. In ha this language barrier is worse than anywhere in the game.

Anywho the reason that most "americans" (i am american) flame and troll people that are speaking other languages is most likely linked to the fact that most schools no longer teach a forign language between grades 2 and 7 anymore and only require 2 years of a foriegn language in highschool usually with the choices being French and Spanish. After spending some time in Spain after highschool graduation I can tell you that the Spanish taught in schools is not practical in the outside world. Therefor I would say taht 75-85% of Americans can only speak English and maybe understand a few words in Spanish or French. So in my opinion people speaking 2 or 3 or even like they teach in europe in some countries 4 or 5 differnt languages in school intimidates Americans and or makes us jealous.

The only thing that annoys the crap outta me is when someone starts yelling at you over vent and you can not understand them. After kicking them from the group they spam you in pm's with yet more that you do not understand. IF you are raging at me or trying to make me feel small like any other ebully it would prolly do ya good to do it in a language that the person understands otherwise it has no meaning.

No. Certainly not if you're just visiting.

Where on earth do you get this? There are people in the world who never attend school and of those that do, there are many who are either never offered the opportunity to learn English or who choose to take another language instead. For instance, many Japanese schools offer French but not English and a French student might choose to take German or Spanish instead of English. There are also many students who do take English, but never develop at it.

Oh, and a number of large, influential sites (e.g. Japan's 2chan and the 'human flesh' engines in China) aren't in English and most of the really important sites offer multiple languages.

I beg to differ with this. If you live in say germany, it may be unpractical for you to learn English if you are never A. Going anywhere that speaks English. B. Not someone that requires English for the job. C. It is a Fing video game get over yourself.

This pretty much sums it up from my point of view.

Now if I had my way we would be in the Monty Python Dist. NI!!

So, we don't have the same definition of curtesy. That means will probably rarely agree on what's a good behavior.

Yes, maybe, but they didn't learn to write and read, and they don't own a computer, so if you're strictly right, they don't play GW, so that's a mute point.

Don't they usually offer English too ? You would have said Algeria, Viet Nam, OK, but I'm pretty sure Japanese are more used to English language than French. Anyway there's a Japanese district.

There's a French district. Many French with internet are capable to speak English fluently. The others have no reason to quit French district.

If most of the really important site offer multiple languages they are partly in English, aren't they ?

i kinda get what the OP's saying, but what a few people were annoyed about was the fact that (in the euro, english district for example) other languages were taking over, though this was only because there wasn't already a district for dutch. to be honest i wouldn't mind if there were just servers, with no server being labeled as a certain language. at least this is better than other games where its euro servers which europeans must use e.t.c.

anyway regarding the english euro district, its pointless. i've never seen that district go above 2 or 3 in LA for at least 2 years )other than festival times) theres the american districs where people speak english as well, so its not like there isn't a community for them. people can switch districts anywa.

If they did that then international would actually have a use .
Im in a multi national alliance with mixed races ( dunno if race is right word ) and when we get new recruits who are non english native i always let them know they can speak their native language - none of us have a problem with it and it makes them feel they are not being forced to speak a language they may not be confident in speaking.

Personally, I don't care if people are speaking a "foreign" language in an "English" district. A lot of the chatter generated by supposedly "english" speaking people is so badly spelled, un-punctuated, and grammatically mangled, that it's practically a foreign language anyway. Most of the time I have "all" chat turned off anyway.
Bottom line is that those who would complain about it are usually just ignorant. The same sort of ignorance that would think "America" (as in, a region or continent) means "USA".

How about YOU chill out you're the one that seems to work yourself into a frenzy.

I agree with that other posting saying that out of courtesy you should speak the language of the district you are in. It seems like some people in this thread don't know what courtesy means, I'm guessing the usual people that like that they can be annoying a-holes because they are anonymous and thus "it's just a game".

Yes it's "just a game" but what is that even supposed to mean? It's a place where I spend my time so I'd prefer if I understand what people are saying when they are talking IN PUBLIC.

Interesting assumption. Try living in Europe and enforcing that 'speak the language of the place you're at' rule of yours. Hell, just go to Wales. Most people speak English there, but if you want to be 'courteous', you should speak Welsh, no?

Many of them do learn to read and write. Going to school isn't the only way you can absorb that sort of knowledge.

And aren't you forgetting the home-schooled?

Some schools offer it, many don't.

I quit the European districts because there are usually more players on the American districts. If there are only five people in an outpost, switching from district to district to pick up more players seems logical. Back before I could play on the American servers, many English groups would head to the well-populated German server to grab an ever illusive monk or whatever.

Doesn't mean everyone's reading them in English. Hell, Spanish is the world's most widly spoken first language.

I'm Belgian myself, and I think we should plea for a dutch district! :P

I find myself to be more of a language-nazi when it comes down to languages in districts. However, I don't ever insult people, but rather tell them to go talk Russian/Polish/German/French in their own district.

Even people speaking languages which don't have their own districts often get critized by me. Heck, I even told a dutch person to speak english in all chat, rather than dutch.

The irritation I have comes from real life I think. Since you live in Belgium aswell, you should know about the "verfransing" and the immigration of muslims (Turks, Marrokans, etc.). The core of these issues, aswell as the language barrier in GW, is the same: It's about hospitality towards other people.

Accepting other people to have their own customs and own languages is something I find natural. This is why we allow French speaking (Wallons?) people to speak French, obviously, and vice versa. It's why we allow French speaking Guild Wars players to speak French in their own assigned districts. (French is just the example, you can replace it with every language) And there is enough empty districts for the many languages which don't have their own districts.

However, when you are in a public place which in this case can be concidered English and International District, it's just as natural that you assume non-native speakers do atleast attempt to speak English (International language) solely so that English speaking people (Aka the natives) don't get the feeling they're the odd one out in their own district.

Courtesy has to go both ways. And this is the issue at heart here. In both the real life-Belgian issues where Frenchies refuse to speak Dutch even if they are in the Flemish part, and where eastern-immigrants (mainly muslims) refuse to do any form of integration, or sometimes even expect the hosting country to make more efforts to let them live their own lifestyle.

If you're in whatever district, you should speak that district's language. Why? Out of courtesy for the hundreds of other people who will otherwise feel allienated from their own district if they see strange languages getting spammed in all-chat.

Chauvenism ftw!

If you are looking for a pug I would suggest trying to find someone who speaks a language you do whatever it may be.
If you are just hanging out in a district for the heck of it, ignore the languages you dont understand.

Having taught in Japan, I am aware of their educational stance on teaching English---it is REQUIRED at the junior high school level for 3 years as well as for 2 in high school as well. That said they are not taught much beyond what they would need to pass an easy written test in the language, sad to say. And very few learn enough conversational English to even want to TRY to speak to others in English.....
The education system in many European countries also focuses on learning other languages at a young age, Sweden, for example, starts in the lower grades offering the choice of 3 (or 4) languages--then again offering another one of those a few years later and again another a few years later with the understanding "if you go a few hundred miles in any direction you wont be in Sweden anymore".
American schools, while offering language instruction, dont do so at an early enough age. Most schools wait until junior high school (I had french) or high school which is too late to start effectively teaching it in the opinion of many language professionals (the language centers of the brain slow down after age 5 or so making it increasing more difficult to pick up new languages).

sorry for the thesis on languages, however, I do believe we should let people speak whatever they wish, though if they want to go to an English district they should realize that if they dont speak the language they will have a distinct disadvantage language wise in that district as many people there will NOT speak anything BUT English in that district.

I consider it a matter of courtesy to speak in public in a language that those present understand. However, not doing so is only impolite and certainly not grounds for any kind of sanction except not being understood.

This, I agree with wholeheartedly (and thanks for the info on Japanese schools).

I would agree with those who have said it's a courtesy for those to speak the district's native language. As stated, they might have some disadvantage should they not - if trying to form group, trade, etc. Does it bother me if others are there speaking anything other than that language? Nope. More often than not I have all chat turned off anyway.

Hmm only my opinion:
I don't have any problem with foreign ppl or languages... many of my friends (irl and ingame) are from different countries...
BUT:
when someone is selling anything in an american district and you pm him and ask something like "how much is it?" or "which skin is it?" and he doesnt even understand that he should better stay in a district with his language.... It's just a waste of time for both. me and the other player if he doesn't understand a single word...

But well...
This happens like 1 time in a month or something like that... so its not a big problem at all.
Also I never saw that someone was discriminated because of a foreign language or something...

Spanish most certainly isn't. Mandarin Chinese has over twice as many native speakers. English and Spanish are neck to neck, with estimates putting both second and third. Adding second and foreign language speakers, Chinese probably still wins by a wider berth, and English beats Spanish hands down. (These are all estimates, but there is no way Spanish is as widely spoken as you think.)

You'd have to be really self-centered to get mad because you saw someone speaking a language you don't understand.

the problem with people that get pissed off when other speak another language is that they are paranoid ....."omg they are plotting against me what are they saying"

these are the same people that get mad when people in a public place speak another language..

no people arent talking about you ..just get over yourself your not that important


and also people saying that the other person attempt to speak english ..your so full of it cause i HAVE seen people ntry to speak english and then you get an even bigger douche bag telling them to LEARN english or basically humiliate that player because hes speaking broken english ..when even that player is saying english is not his native toungue

And that describes the average teenager.

No, why? Must be the silliest thing I've heard in a long time. There is no reason to use the language of people for whom a communication is not intended.

It's a lot harder to express oneself in a foreign language, why do you expect other people to limit what they can talk about?

You talk about curtesy while you expecting other people to put your wishes on the first place.

Lol.

Perhaps if you tell them you are interested in what they have to say they will switch.

I agree with those.
Personally I'm happy to hear different languages, if in the world everything was in english and everybody would only speak english...what a sad thing would it be. I like hearing languages I don't know, because I think I can learn something that way, and I try to guess what they're saying. And if speaking with each other, both should just try to understand and meet in the middle. I have close Polish friends, I understand nothing of that language (I really tried to learn, but it' sooooo difficult) and they don't understand my language(s). Luckily we can speak english but none of us perfectly, so we sometimes have to find a way to explain the word we want to say. And we never fail. It's true that if there's not a single language two persons can communicate in, than things get difficult, but in a game like this there's always a way to describe things.
Instead if you hear people speaking a different language and they're not speaking with you...why should you care? Get a life
I think it's less educated when a newbie asks you for information and you answer with a bunch of abbreviations he's never going to understand.

And, on general basis, even if districts are nobody's home or possession, when did you hear a tourist speak the language of the country he's visiting? I think only 1% does, unless it's a very very common language, and here you can maybe get 50%. I more often heard tourists requiring you to speak their language. So I think there's a very campanilist mind behind discriminations.

Totally agree.

*SIGH*

You just don't get it do you?

Being courteous means being considerate of other people, but I guess that's just crazy talk to you.

Oh and in the Euro districts the most common used foreign language in chat is dutch, not dissing on the dutch but why not just whisper to each other instead of filling up the chat with your nonsense - would you mind passing that on to your fellow dutch people

If they aren't speaking to me they shouldn't be talking in the chat either.

Do tourist stand on the town square yelling in their native language.. I never noticed that where I live.

Dont froget Indian up there with Chineese. Seeing as rougly 2/5 of teh worlds population is either in China or India.

Just troll the shit out of them and they'll eventually leave or talk the right language. If they want to speak in their own language they should use whisper or something.

Damn If I am in the International Dist do I have to speak the International Language? Which would be the Language of Love!

Forgot about Chinese. Don't know how, it's not exactly a small country (double checked, my stats thing didn't include most of the east, will find a more complete thing). I still think Spanish beat English (first language only) and I don't know why someone would choose to read a popular website in their second language if their first was available.

Meh, whatever. The point is, English isn't universal and it does no harm to have people advertising guilds, chatting or selling stuff in their own language. Most of the time it's easy to understand what they're saying because of GW terminology. Most non-English speakers will still use things like 'WTS' and 'WTB' even if they don't know what the unabbreviated versions are and you can still ping builds in a non-English group -shrugs-

I can't believe all of the crap being posted in this thread. Some of you have the audacity to demand that foreign players learn english or stay out of the district? Who the hell are you to decide what they can and cannot type. A handful of you clowns have even gone so far as to play that "courteous" bs. You want them to learn english at your leisure because you feel uncomfortable seeing them speak in their native tongue? Your annoyance/anger towards them speaking their native language in an American districts is a product of your own insecurities, or better yet your ignorance. Those same players wouldn't hound you if you were in a different district. Just because they're in the American district does not give you any right to demand that they speak English, and to believe so otherwise and post your ignorant comments in this thread is a joke.

I'm American and I more than disgusted by some of the things you people have said. That's one of the biggest problems with people in the US these days. Everyone is a fcking narcissists who believes the rest of the world should revolve around our country.

As far as American and European English districts go, yes, there is a lot of chatter in a diverse number of languages. However, I would never presume I could go into a French district and successfully converse with the majority of the population there. If I wanted to sell something, I'm best off attempting to converse in the language of that district. Plus, I'm sure if I started babbling in English in local chat, I might get some broken English responses, but mostly people just ignoring me.

Personally, I think it is easier for everyone to congregate by their best spoken language, but I know it is not always that practical considering there are missing districts for several languages, and often times non-english districts are devoid of a significant population - especially outside main towns. That said, I find excessive talk in a language I don't understand to be annoying, which I am sure many people empathize with no matter which language you speak. It sucks when you don't understand what people are saying and it just becomes 'clutter' - but it has nothing to do with discrimination.

I mostly just keep local chat off. It's not as if 14 year old English is real English anyways .

You mean someone should talk in general chat only if he/she's adressing to you?

Oh yes yes, they do...that and a lot more.

If they can have a semi-intelligent conversation with me in English, I could care less what they do in all chat...It's the ones that cant speak English (in the american/english districts) that annoy me