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Originally Posted by Moonstalker
Skill Changes
[edit] Miscellaneous * Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] now uses the PvP version of Flesh of My Flesh. |
August 12, 2010 skill updates
Playing Is Srs Bsns
Amy Awien
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
How bout you read the skill? They killed the recharge.
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See the Old version, the new version, the diff and the description of Mind Wrack.
Killed u man
You people need to get off your horses.
The skills arn't that imbalanced, and the fact that you guys think they are only shows how much you guys really understand about game balance.
Now, I'm not saying it's ok that mesmers have access to non-conditional damage skills (unlike shatter which requires an enchant), however, the damage from WD will not be "lolzomg mAT NERF" as people claim it to be.
Sure, I can see a couple of situations where you can totally prevent someone from casting (Diversion and shame, but you don't want to use these as a cover, rite?) such as a Hammer warrior or blackout. But the truth is that you'dd have to dedicate an intire build (alteast 2 characters) for only this skill to work.
All this does is give mesmers the ability to do some damage to bad players. On top of that, pretty sure the old WD would've done more damage (the 8 sec recharge one) give that every second WD they use a skill. (The old WS did 102 damage as I recall)
The skills arn't that imbalanced, and the fact that you guys think they are only shows how much you guys really understand about game balance.
Now, I'm not saying it's ok that mesmers have access to non-conditional damage skills (unlike shatter which requires an enchant), however, the damage from WD will not be "lolzomg mAT NERF" as people claim it to be.
Sure, I can see a couple of situations where you can totally prevent someone from casting (Diversion and shame, but you don't want to use these as a cover, rite?) such as a Hammer warrior or blackout. But the truth is that you'dd have to dedicate an intire build (alteast 2 characters) for only this skill to work.
All this does is give mesmers the ability to do some damage to bad players. On top of that, pretty sure the old WD would've done more damage (the 8 sec recharge one) give that every second WD they use a skill. (The old WS did 102 damage as I recall)
belshazaarswrath
It's a good change for PvE in my opinion. They'll change it back in PvP I'm sure.
Essence Snow
IDC bout PvP, but in PvE its not all that great....You'd have to lump it with a couple of skills to get it's full effect as the AI spams skills.
belshazaarswrath
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
IDC bout PvP, but in PvE its not all that great....You'd have to lump it with a couple of skills to get it's full effect as the AI spams skills.
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Imagine if it didn't have the condition that a skill ends it...mes would usurp the throne of most overpowered class thanks to one skill.
IrishX
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Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath
They'll change it back in PvP I'm sure.
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belshazaarswrath
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Originally Posted by IrishX
It's pretty weak. The only way it would possibly be a problem (as far as I can see) is if it was in Illusion and stacked with IoP.
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Shame on me for taking the complaints at face value without hands on experience.
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath
Well it would just be retarded if you didn't have to do that...
Imagine if it didn't have the condition that a skill ends it...mes would usurp the throne of most overpowered class thanks to one skill. |
belshazaarswrath
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
Dedicating not only a single build but a teambuild around 1 skill (maybe 2, might as well bring ww as well) that does only moderate dmg is simply not worth it. There are just much better options for PvE imo.
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Also I did a few matches in RA with this and it's nothing to call home about.
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath
Teambuild? Just run panic on your bar.
Also I did a few matches in RA with this and it's nothing to call home about. |
belshazaarswrath
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
Panic alone is not enough tbh, unless you have a tank balling aggro. If you have a tank balling aggro you should be spiking that ball <5secs anyhow, so WD is pointless in that situation.
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But it's still a useful skill and all you need is panic to help make it effective in general play.
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
Really? It was a Spell, now it is a Hex Spell
See the Old version, the new version, the diff and the description of Mind Wrack. |
jazilla
I am just happy to see that the players(Test Krewe) are just as bad at a really troublesome thing called balance as the devs were. It's harder than it looks, and no one in this thread is trying to be the solution, I only see negativity. Maybe some constructive criticism would be a better way to tackle this issue. I say keep the skills the way the are right now and increase Skill Recharge.
Winterclaw
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Originally Posted by Moonstalker
Overload: reduced recharge to 5 seconds; changed functionality to: "Hex Spell. For 5 seconds, target foe suffers -1...3 Health degeneration. If target foe is using a skill, then Overload deals 15...75 damage to that foe and all adjacent foes.”
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Dear ANet, thank you for killing overload even more; I really liked it once upon a time... but at least it's still spammable. The original version was the best, please bring it back.
If you guys don't like the original version it should be 40 guaranteed to the target and 40 conditional AoE on a 5 sec recharge. :\
belshazaarswrath
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Dear ANet, thank you for killing overload even more; I really liked it once upon a time... but at least it's still spammable. The original version was the best, please bring it back.
If you guys don't like the original version it should be 40 guaranteed to the target and 40 conditional AoE on a 5 sec recharge. :\ |
Wish Swiftdeath
Well after unnatural got nerfed im not really bothered about overload whether it gets reverted or not. My main issue is still mind wrack, it discourages good play (weaponswapping) and is too strong anyway. If that got hit I wouldn't complain about mesmers anymore.
Amy Awien
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
You're not even reading any of my posts.
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You did write:
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
Wastrel's Demise is adjacent and really it's just 11 damage at 16 domination.
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And
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| The Overload change was an unnecessary nerf in recharge. Doesn't make a difference if it's a hex, you had to decide to f' it or make sure you hit a skill |
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by jazilla
no one in this thread is trying to be the solution
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
About a skill that can do more then ten times as much.
[...] It makes a difference that it's a hex because it won't trigger Mind Wrack now. The recharge might well be less of a 'nerf' then making it a hex, skills to hit don't come that often - and now missing one doesn't put you on 12 second recharge. You can argue about which is worse, but not that I wouldn't have read your post. |
You somehow missed the less recharge part of the skill.
Amy Awien
I missed nothing about the recharge part, stop making comments about things you know nothing about. What makes you think I missed the instant recharge on the older version? If you feel the change in the recharge is more important then anything else, say so, argue about it, but don't make yourself look like a fool by babbling about what I would have missed.
You're not commenting on the 11 damage from WD anymore?
Why panic? Interrupt whatever they try to use to get rid of WD, use something else. ANd it won't always deal full damage, you can't expect to get a 120 AoE skill for 5E with a 5 sec recharge.
You're not commenting on the 11 damage from WD anymore?
Why panic? Interrupt whatever they try to use to get rid of WD, use something else. ANd it won't always deal full damage, you can't expect to get a 120 AoE skill for 5E with a 5 sec recharge.
Ka Tet
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
You people need to get off your horses.
The skills arn't that imbalanced, and the fact that you guys think they are only shows how much you guys really understand about game balance. Now, I'm not saying it's ok that mesmers have access to non-conditional damage skills (unlike shatter which requires an enchant), however, the damage from WD will not be "lolzomg mAT NERF" as people claim it to be. Sure, I can see a couple of situations where you can totally prevent someone from casting (Diversion and shame, but you don't want to use these as a cover, rite?) such as a Hammer warrior or blackout. But the truth is that you'dd have to dedicate an intire build (alteast 2 characters) for only this skill to work. All this does is give mesmers the ability to do some damage to bad players. On top of that, pretty sure the old WD would've done more damage (the 8 sec recharge one) give that every second WD they use a skill. (The old WS did 102 damage as I recall) |
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by jazilla
I am just happy to see that the players(Test Krewe) are just as bad at a really troublesome thing called balance as the devs were. It's harder than it looks, and no one in this thread is trying to be the solution, I only see negativity. Maybe some constructive criticism would be a better way to tackle this issue. I say keep the skills the way the are right now and increase Skill Recharge.
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byteme!
OR maybe the devs idea of how things should be are completely different from what a small minority think they should be. We keep talking about balance like we're supposed to know what the devs intentions are. If you don't like it there are a few options I can think of in my mind that you could try....I'll let you figure it out.
Balance? LOLWTFGETOVERIT...
Balance? LOLWTFGETOVERIT...
Puddin Cheeks
All I'm thinking is , OMG another fail update.
Seriously it took a month to produce this garabage.
A freshman in into to programming could pull of better stuff than Anet is producing right now.
So basically, live team is sitting around playing GW2 demo drinking coffee laughing at us.
Seriously it took a month to produce this garabage.
A freshman in into to programming could pull of better stuff than Anet is producing right now.
So basically, live team is sitting around playing GW2 demo drinking coffee laughing at us.
shoyon456
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Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks
So basically, live team is sitting around playing GW2 demo drinking coffee laughing at us.
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Lishy
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Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks
All I'm thinking is , OMG another fail update.
Seriously it took a month to produce this garabage. A freshman in into to programming could pull of better stuff than Anet is producing right now. So basically, live team is sitting around playing GW2 demo drinking coffee laughing at us. |
shoyon456
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Originally Posted by Lishy
So just what kind of minor-scale update are you expecting in between a large update?
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I forget who it was, but someone from the TK said something along the lines of "don't hold your breath," which was taken to mean that the update was nowhere near ready.
Also, lets not forget the Mes balance was in May and they're still picking up the pieces from that.
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Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath
That's what you do with old games. I'm not ashamed to say that in my case the original Guild Wars is getting shafted for Guild Wars 2. Hell Guild Wars 1 gets shafted now when anything more interesting comes along (which is pretty much anything these days...).
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True, aside from Anet's promise of high-quality support. Ignoring the fact that Anet completely changed their original business model to make GW2 which is essentially the cause of this.
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Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath
Anyway with the community for Guild Wars 1 basically eating itself and becoming a giant whinestorm can you blame anyone for being eager to leave it all behind?
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Mintha Syl
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Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks
So basically, live team is sitting around playing GW2 demo drinking coffee laughing at us.
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Unless the live team is composed by macacos getting paid in bananas and nuts...
Amy Awien
Btw, back to the topic, WD's hex duration is just a tad too short for the fifth pulse, resulting in a total of 120 at 12 domination, at least against the MoD.
Morphy
Wastrel's Demise: Oboi, both a cover Hex and a Savannah heat with 3 recharge and zero cast time for shut down opponents.
Apok
After obsing a few (12) matches, I see that no one is abusing WD. Really, though, that was to be expected.
The VoR bar is already compressed enough that it doesn't need a cover hex, especially one as bad as WD. Most cover hexes last at least 15 seconds; WD only lasts, at most, 5 seconds. Secondly, the VoR mes needs enough e-management to continually maintain Empathy, Backfire, and VoR on the team. Power Drain, and Drain Enchantment are pretty much needed. And Diversion and Shame usually take up the remaining slots for added shutdown.
The Shutdown mes is also very compressed. People are still using Unnat Sig for spikes, and using WD as a double-edged sword on monks with Diversion or Shame on them is useless; a Shielding Hands or a Patient Spirit can easily overheal the 135 damage.
Lastly, WD has to basically be spammed to be marginally effective. You'd need Lyssa's Aura or something to make it viable.
They took this into consideration when testing it, guys. Don't count them out just yet when all you are thinking about is offensive power.
The VoR bar is already compressed enough that it doesn't need a cover hex, especially one as bad as WD. Most cover hexes last at least 15 seconds; WD only lasts, at most, 5 seconds. Secondly, the VoR mes needs enough e-management to continually maintain Empathy, Backfire, and VoR on the team. Power Drain, and Drain Enchantment are pretty much needed. And Diversion and Shame usually take up the remaining slots for added shutdown.
The Shutdown mes is also very compressed. People are still using Unnat Sig for spikes, and using WD as a double-edged sword on monks with Diversion or Shame on them is useless; a Shielding Hands or a Patient Spirit can easily overheal the 135 damage.
Lastly, WD has to basically be spammed to be marginally effective. You'd need Lyssa's Aura or something to make it viable.
They took this into consideration when testing it, guys. Don't count them out just yet when all you are thinking about is offensive power.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Apok
After obsing a few (12) matches, I see that no one is abusing WD. Really, though, that was to be expected.
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They'll do what they always do and fix the skill after this month's mAT. It's ridiculous how reactionary they are. I'm sure they still haven't realized how bad this is.
lemming
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
You have to give people a few days. I've seen several HA matches with 2 doms abusing the hell out of it. It'll be in GvG soon enough.
They'll do what they always do and fix the skill after this month's mAT. It's ridiculous how reactionary they are. I'm sure they still haven't realized how bad this is. |
I reserve the right to eat my words if someone breaks it.
Sirius Bsns
I think WD and Overload are more of a cover-hex than anything else, really. Its damage is light, but it's still almost guaranteed damage. No monk is going to want to remove a cover hex with 3-5 recharge on it. Also, they don't require Lyssa's Aura to use properly [unless you're trying to LOLspam it everywhere on recharge like a moron]. P.Drain + D.Enchant should be sufficient to handle the cost. Using it wisely is key! It's a great cover hex, and it's guaranteed damage and/or degeneration.
HigherMinion
Doesn't seem OP... Someone casts, it deactivates... All Wastrel's skills are terrible due to being so reactive.
Femmefatal
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Quote: Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks So basically, live team is sitting around playing GW2 demo drinking coffee laughing at us. I wish I could have a job like that T_T Unless the live team is composed by macacos getting paid in bananas and nuts... |
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by lemming
It honestly hasn't seemed too broken right now. Dom mesmers in GvG are only used in spike builds (VoR is obsolete), and Demise has no place on a damage-heavy Esurge bar.
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Something that promotes the old mesmer hexway skills isn't good.
Killed u man
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Originally Posted by lemming
It honestly hasn't seemed too broken right now. Dom mesmers in GvG are only used in spike builds (VoR is obsolete), and Demise has no place on a damage-heavy Esurge bar.
I reserve the right to eat my words if someone breaks it. |
Even if you can hit up to 3 people AND prevent them all fron casting, you still barey got an overal 90 DPS. (Apply ranger spreading poison can eaily half that by solely spreading poison, not even including arrow dmg)
The first thing that came to my mind was some kind of soul barbs abuse (overload + wastrels = lol), but then I was reminded Anet destroyed Recurring Insecurity a while back...
This skill wont get abused, ever. If it does, people can easily counter it: cast.
Ranger Jaap
people forget that wastrel demise ends if you use a skill. really in PVE it only works with a panic mesmer or other shutdown combined with it.
Lanier
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
Doesn't seem OP... Someone casts, it deactivates... All Wastrel's skills are terrible due to being so reactive.
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