Danger...topk and farming...

*** send a private message to me either here or my in game name: emily death blade
*** and I will add your name to the list of innocent accounts banned by anet.

UPDATE:
The ban has nothing to do with my simple macro.
The ban appears to be for a 3rd party program that is probably a bot that they are referring to.
I along other players have been accused of having a 3rd party program which we just don't have.
The common scenario is that we were all in TOPK when we were farming and we banned.
Somehow, our builds, maneuvers, run paths, trigger some screen that got us banned.
I suggest at this time to avoid any or all farming in TOPK at this time of the underworld edge for ectos(A/me or Me/A builds), until this is resolved.
I am trying to work with customer service to see if they can figure out what the problem was and why it has netted innocent players; however, they are not being cooperative.


__________________________________________________ _________________________________
Just wanted to warn people about TOPK and farming the ectos on the edge in the underworld.

I started to farm this area about 2 days ago with an A/me build. Today, I got a message that due to 3rd party/bot/etc, I have been permanently banned.

Unfortunately, the only things I have that might constitute anything would be my razermouse that has 1 macro that lasts 1 or 2 seconds of run time that requires me to be there to use it. And my g13 which I have used on occasional for heroes bonding or buffing macros, which again require me to be there to start it.

Both my razer and g13 have been with me a the entire time i have played the game around 8 months.

The only thing new was I started farming TOPK 2 days ago.

I know that there are TOPK bots, but apparently, I got wrongfully banned for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So, word of caution about TOPK.

I have emailed support and have asked them to look into my account and see that it is legitimate and am awaiting their response.

I applaud GW for being aggressive with the bots, but being part of the collateral damage really sucks.

IGN of people who have been banned for illegal 3rd program use without just cause:
1) Light and Peace (Slight and Deadly was the sin)
2) Angels tread among (Mes that was banned)
3) Empress Dragonheart (A/me)

Good luck. I have heard both good and bad stories from ANET support. Sounds like you are not at fault and their logs should show that you were not a bot.


Good luck .

What is razermouse and g13?

razermouse = mouse which you can program macro on?

What about g13?

Anyway you probably didn't get ban because you farmed topk. They probably banned you because they suspected you from using third party programs so you would have been banned regardless of the location you would farm in.

I'm not sure if they consider mouse-macro as a third party but it's still not the way the game was intended to be played and it's still unfair to peoples that don't use them.

Hope you get an answer from the support team so that you can at least know the reason why you got banned, let alone get unbanned.

Just for everyone's edication before this turns into a macro/illegal/legal war.

Thousands have played this game with razers and g13's without a ban.

G13 is like the G15 keyboard, just extra keys for macros if you need them. Again, something I haven't used in a while.

If you use a macro that's a 3rd party system. It's not part of the game it's part of your hardware and the EULA clearly states no 3rd party usage of any kind. Ban acceptable goobye better luck next time you try to cheat.

It's probably not your hardware that got you banned. You should appeal on the basis that you weren't botting and that you used macros. Macros are fine.


They have been banning a lot of A/Me and A/E lately. There are a couple of scripting bots used to farm ectos in ToPK that have gained public attention lately and are being used pretty frequently.

Just appeal and explain to them (in a more polite manner) that you weren't using this bot. The problem is that it's borderline undetectible and Anet isn't amazing at catching botters anyway.

Tbh, most of the big-time botters from the recent mass ban have gotten at least 1 of their accounts back. Most of them have gotten back their main accounts, minus thousands of ectos.

LOL, the crazy thing is that i didn't use any macros in TOPK ever. The macro's were used for chaining dash and pious haste (dash pious haste - 2 keys) when I was a noob runner. I haven't used the macro in a long time except for boring EOTN runs where I can click it and not worry about dying.

Like I said the only new thing that occured in the last week, was me -> TOPK.

As you can see right above your post, that I clearly linked a response from a GM about it. So, I don't think it's as simple as you think it is. And secondly, personal attack much on the basis of calling me a cheater?

Thx.

Again, it's probably just because you were running a build similar to the one the botters have been using in ToPK and Anet just isn't great at catching the new stuff these guys are running.

Honestly, it's kind of ridiculous, but I just don't think Anet's support staff has the time or resources to actually catch these guys so they often catch innocent guys like you in a blanket ban of assassins in ToPK.


EDIT: And don't listen to Femmefatal. He/she has been trolling a lot lately.

Third party software is not a violation of the EULA. Using 3rd party software is not against the rules, but using it to break the rules is, oddly enough, against the rules.
Macros are not a violation of the EULA. Macros that break the rules are a violation.

Using either or both violates the EULA when ANet or NCSoft feels like it, or if the gibbous moon beam pierces a cloud to strike a falling oak leaf 21 inches above the ground in Minnesota on the second Thursday in February, provided there have been no fires within 1,278 yards of said leaf for at least 3 weeks. Odds of detection are influenced by the proximity and population density of indigenous squirrels.

In other words, there is a gray area, and ANet refuses to clarify it.

A couple years ago I was doing some Kurzick stuff on my warrior and had walked into Altrumn Ruins. I then minimized the game window and looked up some things on wiki and guru. When I returned to the GW window, I was sitting at the login screen. When I attempted to log back in, I discovered I was permanently banned for botting.

So I created a support ticket. It took 24 hours, but they reviewed the code and discovered I was banned by mistake. As it turns out, at that time there were solo monk bots running out of Altrumn Ruins constantly. Since I happened to be inside Altrumn Ruins at the time Anet decided to sweep them up, I was inadvertently caught in the net.

I don't know if what happened to you was for a similar reason, or if they actually are detecting macros as trivial as what you may have been using. But I would imagine it was an error. Good luck!

you were banned for no reason? working as intended. - ANet

I can't believe I'm about to defend Anet, but here goes.

The truth is that it's unavoidable. Anet wants to catch bots, but they're just bad at it. They don't have the tools, they don't have the staff, and they don't have the resources.

Sometimes, their best bet is to blanket ban and then work out the innocents after. I know that sounds harsh, but they've been doing it for a while.

Bots run off of scripted/coded behavior. Mouses and keyboards are the same deal. I think Anet should declare any and all forms of automated/scripted game behavior botting and be done with it because they're relatively the same. If you're not playing the game manually, if you're playing on auto-pilot, you should be banned for it. Proof lay in their logs, so if they see any patterns of play that a human being is simply incapable of outputting [especially for extreme periods of time] they have enough to put your account on permanent suspension for botting. Botting is cheating no matter which way anyone looks at it, and just because it's sold in stores, it doesn't mean you can or should be able to apply it to online gaming. That's just my piece. If you ask me, your case is ban-worthy, but if they don't have it in their EULA they can't hit you with that.

When I got banned a couple months ago (about a week after the mass bannings took place), I too was farming ToPK using the A/Me build from back then. After several go arounds with them they still wouldn't give a specific reason as to why, just that they detected a botting program on my system, which was totally not true. They finally caved in and lifted the IP ban but did not reinstate my old account. I wish you all the luck with your appeal but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

first things first, figure out what I got banned for.

1) TOPK net that was thrown too wide.

2) If it was my use of macros, which might have nothing to do with TOPK.

And no, I wasn't playing on "auto-pilot". I have never botted or auto-piloted my play. As I stated earlier, all my macros are short-lived, non-repeating sequences that last no longer than a couple seconds.

No response from Support yet. It's been 3 hours since I emailed them.

Precisely. Enough said.

Macro = Botting = Macro = Botting = Macro = Botting

There's no way around it.

Also consider your account might have been banned for different reasons, like if it got hacked by RMT's. Anet is very quick to ban hacked accounts and if you're lucky, you only lost your gold and maybe a sup vigor or two, and all your ectos

But he didn't use his macros to do ToPK. He just used them to run. And, as far as I'm aware, that's never been something that Anet bans for.

And honestly, macros have been used for years in PvP and never been an issue. He was probably banned because they thought he was a ToPK bot.

Actually, the two aren't the same. And it's outlined in that response from the GM I quoted earlier.

Please make an effort to read it.

I understand your point that it's hard to delineate the two, but it is clearly in the amount of automation that's occuring. A few keystrokes requiring supervision or a volley of keystrokes + afk. Two different issues and mentioned clearly in that response.

Now, I agree that it is HARD to see to difference between the two when you look at the microcosm of those solitary events at a few keystrokes at a time. But when you trace the log there is different activity that is interspersed between these events when you are using macros, as opposed to nothing with bots.

I can click a macro, 3 seconds later, RESPOND to a pm appropriately or change my route, or map somewhere else together.

There's a big difference between the two.

The letter also mentions a gray area, and I'm not sure what that entails but I doubt a gray area violation results in a PERMANENT ban.

In the end this is a semantics level discussion, which as we know leads no where and just more posturing by those arguing for or against.

This will be my last attempt to engage you on this discussion.

There shouldn't be any gray area when it comes to macros. Plus, pming isn't laborious enough to merit macroing it. Changing route? INPUT IT MANUALLY. If you're too lazy to play the game without a macro, it's your loss when you get banned. The only thing that I see saving your behind is the EULA not being explicit enough about mouse and keyboard macros.

Also, it's funny how your case coincidentally involves "farming", wouldn't you agree? I don't believe you're giving us the complete story, but then again, do botters really ever give the complete story? [that's a rhetorical question, btw...] There's no solid way for us guru posters to prove or disprove your story, but Anet can prove whether someone bots or not by simply observing your keyboard and/or mouse input and timing.

In summary, mouse/keyboard macros are the same ordeal as using a program. Macro = Botting.

It's taken up to 72 hours for them to respond to me in the past when I contacted them on a 3rd party program issue. If after 72 hours you still have no reply, then you may have cause for concern. Unfortunately, all you can do is wait.

Grey area, no point discussing.

They have banned more than enough people who were in a grey area, and some even who were in the clear. (Where GM's specifically mentioned something to be OK)

They have not banned more than enough people who were abusing exploits (Duncan, Speedbooking, ...) or breaking the rules in other ways.

Point being: With NCSoft (they handle acounts, not Anet), you're never sure. The internet is filled with posts by people who got banned for the wrong reason, and even people who admit they hacked/exploited and who still got unbanned afterwards.

BBB's rating for NCSoft is B-, which isn't terribly bad, but in no way something to brag about by such a large multinational...

Now, you're crossing the line by insinuating that I am lying and it coincidenallly involves "farming". Let me be clear, I have a total of 4 active accounts, this is my primary one with 8 characters, I have another that has less characters but is more active without a A/me. I took out my primary because I have a completed assassin on it, where as my active one I play the MOST doesn't. The other 2 accounts are mule/pvp accounts.

So clearly, if it was an issue with "macros" it would have been my most active account that was banned, but it wasn't. It was my idle account with completed characters.

You want the full story. You got it. Do not equate me to a botter. I am not a botter. I use macro's. A botter uses a BOT which is totally different in purpose and function.

If you actually understood what I wrote, about PMing, it would clearly show that I would not be AFK and that I am actively still PLAYING the game as opposed to "auto-pilot."

Now, take the time to READ the response from the GM before you continue your personal soapbox about macro's being evil.

I, like Karate Jesus, have made the deduction that it has to do with TOPK and farming there because of bots. That is why I wrote beward of TOPK as opposed to beware of macroing.

We'll get the full answer in a few days. Until then, READ the GM response. I can't help that your PERSONAL view of the matter is not the same as their stated RESPONSE and stand on macro vs botting, which again are _NOT_ the same thing.

For all the people who say macro = botting, please learn to actually find out what words mean before you use it.

A "bot" is a program that can do something independantly (i.e. automation).
If you have to tap a button every few seconds, that's not a bot. If you can go and take a coffee break and come back to find your character still farming away, that's a bot. A bot is not just a "tap this key = these keys". A bot is a complex program, and needs to actually interact with the game world. For something like Guild Wars that has no in-game scripting language, an actual character bots that can play the game is NOT easy to make.

A script is a program written in a scripting language.
A script can be very simple ("when I press this button, send this phrase to chat"), or very complicated. A bot can consist of a number of scripts that allow a character to play the game independently.

A macro is a mapping of certain keys to certain other ones.
It's possible to have macros that contain logic (if/then/else, etc.) and most of the time we still call them macros. But the essence of a 'macro' is that it's there to simplify human-hardware to hardware-software communication. Of course these days the line between macro and scripts get blurred because you can get a piece of hardware (e.g. a keyboard) that lets you 'program' the keys (e.g. a programmable keyboard). And it's entirely possible what you can do with 'macros' on hardware like this will be against the rules, give you significant advantage, or generally piss off people in the player community because they think it's unfair.

But there's a loooong way to go before that kind of script or macro becomes a "bot".

Bot - (computing) A piece of software designed to complete a minor but repetitive task automatically or on command, especially when operating with the appearance of a (human) user profile or account.

Macros - (computing) Any substitution of a collection of actions for a single action. <---typically in the form of G-# Keyboards, Macro Mouses, [insert hardware here], etc...

Believe me, I do my homework.

The only difference I see: software vs hardware. They can both do virtually the same. exact. THING. Regardless of the scripting difficulty levels, botting = botting. Standing here calling my arguement "mere semantics" simply tells me you're trying to take out of scope the very principality of the matter [cheating = wrong!]. Cheating is cheating.

All I'm saying is, while Anet might be lenient for the most part, scripting of any kind is STILL against the EULA.

Here, I'm even pointing out the very quote posted by the OP. I rest my case!

Indeed, that is exactly what you have done.

Your understanding of what a bot is, is not entirely correct. A bot needs to do something automatically, as a human user does. What the bot does may or may not be minor and repetitive.

Let me help you with an analogy:
1. On Wikipedia, people are users who make edits. A bot is a program that makes edits and when ran, it makes edits without the help of a person. A wikipedia bot can be as simple as monitoring a certain set of pages and tagging them. This is something that otherwise a person would do, instead this program "bot" does it.
2. On Guild Wars, people are players who play the game. A bot is a program that plays the game when ran, and it plays it without the help of a person.
3. On IRC, people are clients who communicate with each other. A bot is a program that can communicate with other clients, and it 'talks' by sending messages without the help of a person.

I'm not sure why this is an issue for you. The last quote you made, clearly shows that you understand (at least in the context of Guild Wars), that a bot is about something which plays "automatically without human input".

Please compare:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_game_bot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_bot

WoW glider is an example of a MMO bot.

Now we can look at your definition of a macro:
A collection of actions for a single action is a form of automation.

However it does not allow the game to be played "automatically without human input".

The human still needs to do the "single action" that is a substituion for a "collection of actions".

A macro written in a scripting language qualifies as a script. But as I already pointed out, the term "script" is not very useful because it is far too broad.

However a macro cannot qualify as a "bot" unless it is something that is able to play the game to some level, automated, without human input.

(btw, a person tapping a button every 30secs to trigger a macro is not automated).

Let's end with this:
A macro is not a method by which the service (guild wars) may be played automatically without human input.

Is it cheating? I dunno. I think the official email that was quoted earlier in the thread explains it quite well - it is in the gray area between absolutely not illegal, and automation.

Actually there is no grey area, macros are third party programs. NCsoft has right to enforce or ignore it or not. It is their game, they are gods. Remember, when you make the choice to use macros or texmod, it is at your own risk.
Good luck on your appeal, I hope things work out.

Sirius Bsns I hope this picture is simpler for you to understand.



The difference between macros and bots is to do with automation and purpose.

They may both be ban-worthy, but they are not 'virtually the same thing'.

Once again... regardless of the level of artificial intelligence, task sizes, difficulty scripting, blah, blah, blah... bots, scripts, macros, anything that automates any input for a player.... IS CHEATING. Blue sky is blue! White clouds are white, red rose is red, cheating player is cheating.

This "single act" is usually initialized just before afking and letting the script/bot do the rest... ... ... -___________________-

The definition of a bot/macro/script is quite clear, constant, and not subject to one's own personal interpretation. They all manifest artificial input, and in online gaming, it's known as cheating.

Once again, while Anet may be lenient with players in GW1, the definition of cheating doesn't change. Their integrity and ethical stance may change, but bots/macros/scripts involve AI, automation, and cheating will always remain in the "cheating" section[when applied to online gaming].

Anet cannot keep track of every single player on GW1, hence the leniency, but there is no shadow of doubt that botting/scripting/macroing your gaming experience is cheating.

-The End-


"Purpose" is where Anet cannot rest their judgement based on the "spirit" of the EULA, but only the "letter". In other words, players cannot be trusted. at. ALL. Their purpose must be treated as worst-case-scenario, because otherwise abuse will emerge.

You do realize you are arguing two entirely different matters?

Whether macros are cheating, whether they are as bad as bots, etc. That is a matter of debate.

Whether macros and bots are the same thing, is not a matter of debate. Nor are they a matter of personal interpretation. The two words have different meanings and refer to different things.

Also, you are talking about Guild Wars. If you're going to generalize and talk about "online gaming" in general, please do your research first or you look stupid.

For example, Runes of Magic, a popular free to play MMO, allows macros. In fact, in Runes of Magic, there is an in-game macro menu that helps players edit, store and use macros
http://freetoplaymmorpgs.com/runes-o...-magic-review/
(Bots for Runes of Magic exist too, some of them take advantage of macros and the in-game scripting language. They aren't allowed and people do get banned for it)

I believe WoW also allows macros:
http://wow.stratics.com/content/feat...uide/index.php
But not bots (blizzard has a thing about sueing WoW bot makers...)

Have we not all ready covered this ground?

Dead right there.. I took this picture in Vlox's Falls just this weekend, where it was full of Assassin/Dervish and Assassin/Paragons.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...h_G15_Keyboard

Those aren't Bots..those are ppl SCing....A/D, A/P, A/N for SoOSC, A/P, A/E, A/N for KathSC, A/Me,A/N etc for others..Vlox is just where they group

Yah I guess, but it just looks wrong.. There's something that needs fixing if that many of one type are all doing the same thing repeatedly :-\

yeah that's SoOSC

I'd say probably none of them are bots

so back on topic..........