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Originally Posted by Morphy
That would make Wintergreen Weapons even more awesome.
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Shields And What They Do
jazilla
Lillium
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jazilla
yup and that was part of my reasoning in my OP. it makes the low req shields and special ones more valuable and not just collectibles.
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I will never support game changes that make the rich richer. & Mia Clemons is about spot on.
Missing HB
/not signed for same reason than guy above me
Playing Is Srs Bsns
/notsigned
same reason above
same reason above
Skyy High
/not signed
The balance argument is idiotic; since it's easy (even free, if you have a PvP char) to get max equipment in any attribute you want, there's absolutely no balance issue here. Removing shield sets removes skill from the game, because it takes practice to know when to swap your sets.
The "I want low req stuff to be more expensive" argument is even more idiotic. GTFO of PvP.
The balance argument is idiotic; since it's easy (even free, if you have a PvP char) to get max equipment in any attribute you want, there's absolutely no balance issue here. Removing shield sets removes skill from the game, because it takes practice to know when to swap your sets.
The "I want low req stuff to be more expensive" argument is even more idiotic. GTFO of PvP.
Mia Clemons
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Originally Posted by jazilla
they use something that they do meet the req. on. also, if its not a big deal, i wouldn't see people buying blue q8 shields for upwards of 100k all the time. it's standard pvp for a reason.
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lemming
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Originally Posted by Mia Clemons
So by this same standard, it sounds like a profession should not be able to use other professions weapons either? so paragons are stuck with their crappy spears, rangers with bows, sins with daggers, and casters with staffs/wands. So having a secondary profession would be a complete waste of time, which means everyone should only have skills that relate to their profession. Is that your argument?.....
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Yawgmoth
So you want us to need to waste even more storage space for even more shield sets? You don't like casters running with their high-end better looking max shields so you want to make them use the common Istan Armor 8 no req shields instead? Or Wintergreens as the only "l33t" option? Way to kill variety for absolutely no good reason, I don't see any "balance" changes here at all! Casters still get 8 armor +more from mods and /W or /P can invest some points to get even more armor. You're just making players have to get more shield sets, which is not any improvement but a major annoyance.
Personally I'm also not fond of the fact item descriptions don't show exactly how the item works. The entire community for about 5 years believed that the shield's armor get halved if you don't meet the req, and it's such a simple test.
The only update to shields that would make at least some sense would be making them show their actual functionality, so that players don't need to test themselves or believe wiki lies for years:
would look like this instead:
No functionality change, just more precise display of how it really works. So there wouldn't be a "problem" of characters not meeting the requirements for the shields they use - they clearly wouldn't be meeting the requirements for just a single mod on it.
This could be well applied to focus items but it would look quite awkward on all other weapon types (2 lines with 2 different dmg ranges nobody would recognize).
Personally I'm also not fond of the fact item descriptions don't show exactly how the item works. The entire community for about 5 years believed that the shield's armor get halved if you don't meet the req, and it's such a simple test.
The only update to shields that would make at least some sense would be making them show their actual functionality, so that players don't need to test themselves or believe wiki lies for years:
would look like this instead:
No functionality change, just more precise display of how it really works. So there wouldn't be a "problem" of characters not meeting the requirements for the shields they use - they clearly wouldn't be meeting the requirements for just a single mod on it.
This could be well applied to focus items but it would look quite awkward on all other weapon types (2 lines with 2 different dmg ranges nobody would recognize).
jazilla
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Originally Posted by Mia Clemons
So by this same standard, it sounds like a profession should not be able to use other professions weapons either? so paragons are stuck with their crappy spears, rangers with bows, sins with daggers, and casters with staffs/wands. So having a secondary profession would be a complete waste of time, which means everyone should only have skills that relate to their profession. Is that your argument?.....
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jazilla
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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
So you want us to need to waste even more storage space for even more shield sets? You don't like casters running with their high-end better looking max shields so you want to make them use the common Istan Armor 8 no req shields instead? Or Wintergreens as the only "l33t" option? Way to kill variety for absolutely no good reason, I don't see any "balance" changes here at all! Casters still get 8 armor +more from mods and /W or /P can invest some points to get even more armor. You're just making players have to get more shield sets, which is not any improvement but a major annoyance.
Personally I'm also not fond of the fact item descriptions don't show exactly how the item works. The entire community for about 5 years believed that the shield's armor get halved if you don't meet the req, and it's such a simple test. The only update to shields that would make at least some sense would be making them show their actual functionality, so that players don't need to test themselves or believe wiki lies for years: would look like this instead: No functionality change, just more precise display of how it really works. So there wouldn't be a "problem" of characters not meeting the requirements for the shields they use - they clearly wouldn't be meeting the requirements for just a single mod on it. This could be well applied to focus items but it would look quite awkward on all other weapon types (2 lines with 2 different dmg ranges nobody would recognize). |
Yawgmoth
Don't you realise there were never any requirements to use a weapon in GW? No such concept at all. The only attribute requirements were always just for one particular ability of a weapon, that has always been the original intention of the devs, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
For an even better example see the Prophecies Pre-Order weapons, like the Canthan Targe. They had a bunch of different requirements for different mods, none of them were requirements for the item itself.
Now use some brains and think what your suggestion would really do to the game, think of the outcomes.
Is it all just out of spite against all those VS+Torm shield monks? You want to kill all the variety? What's the freaking point in making them all use some crappy no req spear dropped from a level 8 mob in Istan instead?
Mo/W's speccing some tactics would still use their 16/q8 or 15/q7 sets, but if they want to go Mo/Me in HA they would need a whole new set of 8/q0 shields instead of being able to use the same set AS the 8al caster shields - WASTE of 8+ inventory slots.
Not to mention the incredible revolution in economy, lots of items would lose value a lot and my lots of Wintergreens would shoot up to 1000s of ectos. Absurridiculous.
This idea sucks like a black hole and completely nothing good comes from it.
For an even better example see the Prophecies Pre-Order weapons, like the Canthan Targe. They had a bunch of different requirements for different mods, none of them were requirements for the item itself.
Now use some brains and think what your suggestion would really do to the game, think of the outcomes.
Is it all just out of spite against all those VS+Torm shield monks? You want to kill all the variety? What's the freaking point in making them all use some crappy no req spear dropped from a level 8 mob in Istan instead?
Mo/W's speccing some tactics would still use their 16/q8 or 15/q7 sets, but if they want to go Mo/Me in HA they would need a whole new set of 8/q0 shields instead of being able to use the same set AS the 8al caster shields - WASTE of 8+ inventory slots.
Not to mention the incredible revolution in economy, lots of items would lose value a lot and my lots of Wintergreens would shoot up to 1000s of ectos. Absurridiculous.
This idea sucks like a black hole and completely nothing good comes from it.
Ayuhmii Shanbwa
/disagree
i never saw this coming
a long time ago almost noone agreed with me when i suggested the full hero team, now people want it to make the game more fun and have some more freedom, like the 3 hero rule we have now
and here i see the other way around, let shields only give armor for the ones using the attribute, making something free... not free anymore
what the hell is wrong with that? i mean, i have 1 char i use for fun who uses sword and focus for bit energy, its no serious char
but i'd like to keep the years old tradition:
you get .... energy cuz you have no points of it, want more? get (more) points in it
plz, dont make the game require more, thats how it dies slowly right now
i cant care less about what happans with pvp, but stay out of pve
many people left, i hope you know why, its cuz the game requires too much, wont update anymore, and its all the same everytime again
if you dont understand, plz talk to some more people from other guilds, other countries and not in your friendlist
/notsigned (hope you understand why by now)
i never saw this coming
a long time ago almost noone agreed with me when i suggested the full hero team, now people want it to make the game more fun and have some more freedom, like the 3 hero rule we have now
and here i see the other way around, let shields only give armor for the ones using the attribute, making something free... not free anymore
what the hell is wrong with that? i mean, i have 1 char i use for fun who uses sword and focus for bit energy, its no serious char
but i'd like to keep the years old tradition:
you get .... energy cuz you have no points of it, want more? get (more) points in it
plz, dont make the game require more, thats how it dies slowly right now
i cant care less about what happans with pvp, but stay out of pve
many people left, i hope you know why, its cuz the game requires too much, wont update anymore, and its all the same everytime again
if you dont understand, plz talk to some more people from other guilds, other countries and not in your friendlist
/notsigned (hope you understand why by now)
jazilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
Don't you realise there were never any requirements to use a weapon in GW? No such concept at all. The only attribute requirements were always just for one particular ability of a weapon, that has always been the original intention of the devs, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
For an even better example see the Prophecies Pre-Order weapons, like the Canthan Targe. They had a bunch of different requirements for different mods, none of them were requirements for the item itself. Now use some brains and think what your suggestion would really do to the game, think of the outcomes. Is it all just out of spite against all those VS+Torm shield monks? You want to kill all the variety? What's the freaking point in making them all use some crappy no req spear dropped from a level 8 mob in Istan instead? Mo/W's speccing some tactics would still use their 16/q8 or 15/q7 sets, but if they want to go Mo/Me in HA they would need a whole new set of 8/q0 shields instead of being able to use the same set AS the 8al caster shields - WASTE of 8+ inventory slots. Not to mention the incredible revolution in economy, lots of items would lose value a lot and my lots of Wintergreens would shoot up to 1000s of ectos. Absurridiculous. This idea sucks like a black hole and completely nothing good comes from it. |
Mia Clemons
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Originally Posted by jazilla
you are missing my point and being pretty rude at the same time. I think it would help the pacing of the game if this happened. If you would read back through all the posts, you would see an intelligent post about how much dmg mitigation occurs when you have 16 extra armor. Take that away from certain monk builds and you get 24% or so more damage with attacks. I think it expedites the combat outcomes. If monks(or any class for that matter) want to have that type of mitigation they need to spec points to the full extent of the requirement of the shield. The prices of items is secondary, and you know what? I really don't care about Wintergreens going up in price. I believe they were rewards for players. My main focus here is getting matches back to a reasonable pace. I believe this would do a lot to get it back to that. It's my opinion, and I wasn't rude about it. You should reconsider how you talk to people on a forum even if you consider my opinion to be a bad one.
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Shield: Big round(in most cases) thing of some sturdy material. Use: block stuff. Simple enough?
Spear: Long thin rod that has a sharp end. You throw it and hits things. Easy enough.
Wand/Staff: A catalyst for spells. You get the picture.
Even if someone doesnt meet the att requirements completely. It can be said that a character would have some understanding on how to use it. Which is why you dont get the full +16 armor unless you meet that req. I could say more but i dont really see the point.
/notsigned
DoomFrost
This is why we have a cracked armor condition.
/notsigned
/notsigned
lemming
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Originally Posted by Mia Clemons
Hmm...it seems to me like your upset that monks have an extra bit of armor in pvp. Now while that would make anyone slightly upset, they arent getting that armor for FREE. They have to sacrifice having an additional energy pool (focus offhand). That is an additional 12 or so energy that they give up for some light armor. Now while i say this, i do see your point.
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Elektraaa
In real life, anyone can use a shield. In real life, people trained in using shields, will gain more benefit from it. I don't see the fuss. Also, this isn't real life but whatever. Whole thread is a load of nonsense anyway. Weapon swapping is fun, and another skill to learn. No point in removing it.
They have to weapon swap...
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Originally Posted by jazilla
but its rewarding players with bonuses that they don't have to do anything for.
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jazilla
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Originally Posted by Mia Clemons
Hmm...it seems to me like your upset that monks have an extra bit of armor in pvp. Now while that would make anyone slightly upset, they arent getting that armor for FREE. They have to sacrifice having an additional energy pool (focus offhand). That is an additional 12 or so energy that they give up for some light armor. Now while i say this, i do see your point. Meeting the req for an item makes sense. (If you've never thrown a spear, you shouldnt know how to throw it like a master and hit your target every time). However, even if you've never used a weapon or shield or w/e, every person has some basic understanding of how to use it.
Shield: Big round(in most cases) thing of some sturdy material. Use: block stuff. Simple enough? Spear: Long thin rod that has a sharp end. You throw it and hits things. Easy enough. Wand/Staff: A catalyst for spells. You get the picture. Even if someone doesnt meet the att requirements completely. It can be said that a character would have some understanding on how to use it. Which is why you dont get the full +16 armor unless you meet that req. I could say more but i dont really see the point. /notsigned |
With the above said, I don't mind a compromise in changing the system. you could always change just a few of these things. i just think this would go a long way in changing pvp for the good.
jazilla
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Originally Posted by Elektraaa
In real life, anyone can use a shield. In real life, people trained in using shields, will gain more benefit from it. I don't see the fuss. Also, this isn't real life but whatever. Whole thread is a load of nonsense anyway. Weapon swapping is fun, and another skill to learn. No point in removing it.
They have to weapon swap... |
I think the weapon swap should only help if i meet the requirements of the sets i equip. As it stands I am getting tons of benefits without having to do a thing and this absolutely affects game play. If it didn't affect it, no one would bother doing this. It affects it so much so, I believe it to be an issue that needs to be addressed by making the changes I have suggested or some compromise.
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by jazilla
yup and that was part of my reasoning in my OP. it makes the low req shields and special ones more valuable and not just collectibles.
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Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by Lillium
/not signed
I will never support game changes that make the rich richer. & Mia Clemons is about spot on. |
/hellanotsigned
Morphy
The OP doesn't seem to realise that running q0 8AL shields will still allow people to get a fully operational defensive set, which means the only thing this idea accomplishes is a drop in variety. If a questionable lore argument is the only reason you're suggesting this, there's no position left for me but to question your sanity.
Jade Zephyr
When every player on a team has 8 (+10) extra armor, it adds up quite a bit.
If you look at the game its not balanced around monks (or squishes) with 80+ armor.
Some retard invented 'Cracked Armor' condition but its such a shitty solution.
I would probably /sign a change to how armor/equipment works instead of changing a lot of skills and game mechanisms, don't care too much about this particular suggestion though.
If you look at the game its not balanced around monks (or squishes) with 80+ armor.
Some retard invented 'Cracked Armor' condition but its such a shitty solution.
I would probably /sign a change to how armor/equipment works instead of changing a lot of skills and game mechanisms, don't care too much about this particular suggestion though.
reaper with no name
So, let me get this straight:
You want to decrease armor for all casters who use a shield, and you want to do so in such a way that it would nerf the people with non-perfect shields slightly less, thereby applying pressure on players to farm or buy non-perfect shields from people like you just to recoup some of the armor they lost?
...
/notsigned
You want to decrease armor for all casters who use a shield, and you want to do so in such a way that it would nerf the people with non-perfect shields slightly less, thereby applying pressure on players to farm or buy non-perfect shields from people like you just to recoup some of the armor they lost?
...
/notsigned
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by jazilla
you are missing my point and being pretty rude at the same time. I think it would help the pacing of the game if this happened. If you would read back through all the posts, you would see an intelligent post about how much dmg mitigation occurs when you have 16 extra armor. Take that away from certain monk builds and you get 24% or so more damage with attacks. I think it expedites the combat outcomes. If monks(or any class for that matter) want to have that type of mitigation they need to spec points to the full extent of the requirement of the shield. The prices of items is secondary, and you know what? I really don't care about Wintergreens going up in price. I believe they were rewards for players. My main focus here is getting matches back to a reasonable pace. I believe this would do a lot to get it back to that. It's my opinion, and I wasn't rude about it. You should reconsider how you talk to people on a forum even if you consider my opinion to be a bad one.
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So...since it's not doing what you want it to do (which is utterly idiotic in the first place) AND it screws with the economy, AND despite what you've said you already admitted that you will selfishly profit from this economic disruption, what precisely are we supposed to take from this that's positive?
Morphy
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Psst. Your idea utterly fails to do that. It would just mean that everyone would have to farm low-level mobs for shields with no requirement and an inscription slot, and then they'd have EXACTLY the same amount of armor as they have now. It'd just be a complete PAIN IN THE ASS to adjust to, not to mention (in the interim) it'd completely f*** with the economy and make all the rich players have the advantage, as they'd be able to buy up the now incredibly expensive (lol) low-level shields (and Wintergreens) faster.
So...since it's not doing what you want it to do (which is utterly idiotic in the first place) AND it screws with the economy, AND despite what you've said you already admitted that you will selfishly profit from this economic disruption, what precisely are we supposed to take from this that's positive? |
jazilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Psst. Your idea utterly fails to do that. It would just mean that everyone would have to farm low-level mobs for shields with no requirement and an inscription slot, and then they'd have EXACTLY the same amount of armor as they have now. It'd just be a complete PAIN IN THE ASS to adjust to, not to mention (in the interim) it'd completely f*** with the economy and make all the rich players have the advantage, as they'd be able to buy up the now incredibly expensive (lol) low-level shields (and Wintergreens) faster.
So...since it's not doing what you want it to do (which is utterly idiotic in the first place) AND it screws with the economy, AND despite what you've said you already admitted that you will selfishly profit from this economic disruption, what precisely are we supposed to take from this that's positive? |
i bought a q8 blue inscribable shield on Ventari's for 20k last week. you make it sound like the price of gold during a poor economy in america, and you were rude to boot.
first and foremost if you would read the post that you were replying to you would see that expediting match times to be shorter is my main focus and i said as much. the prices of items are secondary. if anything it would give people more to look forward to when they got a q8 or q7/15 shield. i see nothing wrong with that. i don't mind your opinion, sir. i mind how you speak it. i wasn't rude in any of my posts and i expect people not to be rude to me.
@morphy: your post seems more to me like someone standing around pouring acid in wounds you didn't inflict. if you have nothing of intelligence to add to the topic, then quell your urge to type.
Desert Rose
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Originally Posted by jazilla
first and foremost if you would read the post that you were replying to you would see that expediting match times to be shorter is my main focus and i said as much.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Morphy
The OP doesn't seem to realise that running q0 8AL shields will still allow people to get a fully operational defensive set (...)
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Morphy
Are you ever going to react to that point, jazilla?
inb4 closing this thread unless the OP starts reading other people's posts.
inb4 closing this thread unless the OP starts reading other people's posts.
jazilla
i didn't need to morphy. jade zephyr handled that one for me and wasn't rude about it in his not liking it. as i recall, you questioned my sanity. you may wanna go back through your forum history and count all the threads in which you are needlessly rude to people. then you will realize why i didn't respond to you.