Add a poll to see who wants Hero Battles back?

Of course im being serious. Why would i have posted if i weren't?

That isn't entirely true. There have been some GvG tweaks and there are supposed to be more gvg changes in the future. Also, if anet is going to tweak somethink in pvp, I would far rather them spend their time fixing codex than reinstituting HB.

I am curious how you know that it would be easy to reinstitute HB. I mean i guess they could have it the way it used to be, but that area on the map is now the codex arena. I seriously doubt that reinstituting HB would require "little" effort, especially if anet also instituted the changes that the pro-HB people in this thread have suggested.

As far as i remember , there were always more than 100 ppl playing tourneys( some Ats even had more than 3 pages of register , meaning over 256 ppl)

If i just get a look at Gvg At's , there are usually 6 guilds max playing( and less than 4 , sometimes none on dead hour ) , some forfeiting ( so it will be max 40 players ) ; aswell , how many people are playing codex?

@ Lanier : i don't believe it's really hard to change codex ( there is nothing there.. ) and to add back something that already existed...

Wait... you are suggesting removing codex for HB?

Nonono, I would far rather have Codex even in its current format than have HB. At least now i can have friends get on and play a fun format with me. Of course if they fixed codex, that would be ideal, but no replacing it with HB.

That wouldn't be any problem at all, Anet coder could do it in 1 day. Anyway it's normal that HB has some haters who only did it for zquest or never did or even did it but were terrible in it I mean every format has it's haters its normal. But that's exactly why Anet should make a poll and eventually bring HB back if required number of people (which Anet should decide how big it should be) would agree.
I noticed some of u said it's broken format with lot of abuses. Well you can be sure GvG and HA are a lot more broken. GvG = only 1 build which is way too op works if you wanna win anything on MAT. And HA is just full of abusers, gankers and people who are not playing to win but just to gank. Personally I get ganked in at least 50% of 3 teams games there so I'd say that's greater format abuse than HB.
And please can you people get back to topic now? Just express your opinion if that poll would be good idea or not.
Thank you.

The Poll Rezz Anna Nicole suggested is to ask players to choose between TA+ HB or Codex .
You're saying " At least now " , but couldn't you play TA with your friends ?And , following the thread idea , TA would come back if Codex gets out , so you could stil be able to have fun ..

Aswell , i would like to add that HB was the only format where " luck " didnt really matter , since you're alone with your heroes. You don't lose because you have no monk ( RA ) , because you get 6 melee chars(Fa/JQ) , because you get dcs in your team ( GvG/HA) or because of stupid ganks in halls ( HA).

As many people said it on Heroes Ascent forum , it's really annoying when you want just have fun games , and you finally realized that you just wasted your time...

More people getting again a toss-coin PvP title?
Why?

you think anyone is going to toss a coin/RR or anything for title points? Are you forgetting that it's match manipulation and is against the EULA? Anet banned hundreds of match manipulators in GvG in May, they will ban anyone who does RR or anything like it in HB. There you go guys, no more RR abusing.

Also, if you look at my post on the page before with the list of fixes, one of it is to have a rank requirement and have better rewards at the top part of the ladder. This will encourage people to get better so that they can earn more points at higher levels.

people could run 4bips and sac emselves,lolol

You guys don't get it.

The problem that led into the Red Resign and other exploits was The Z-Quest, remove it and there you have it, no1 is gonna Red Resign for commander pts unless they are retarded, trust me.


The removal of HB and TA and the subsequent failure of codex was in my opinion, the worst decision that anet made in GW.

The removal of a whole format is ALWAYS the last resort (even if the format is played by 2 or 20000 players), after years of promises that they will try to give HB some love the devs lied to the HB whole community and was disrespectful to their players.

I think all those players that are hating on this thread should try to put themselves on HB'ers shoes.

I don't understand why you are name calling... the PRECISE reason why it would ONLY work with ABSOLUTELY ZERO rewards is to keep the people EXPLOITING it OUT of the format. THEN, THEN, THEN.... All the people that 'loved it for what it was' or 'ENJOYED IT' can continue playing it without players RR for faction, zkeys, title, or to have their name posted on a website.

Nothing is free, if you want HB back you must be willing to GIVE something up, its 1v1, for the love of Dwayna, RR cannot be fixed without removing rewards... So... Remove ALL possible rewards, and 100% of the exploiters will be gone... If you really ONLY want it back because you enjoyed it then this would be OBVIOUS to you, and the 'honest' (lol) HB loving players would accept this as a solution so they can play their beloved format.

And /agree to your last statement. PvP needs ALOT of work, I have no arguement with that in the least.

While we're at it, lets remove the glad title from RA, Fame from HA, champ points from GvG, Codex title from Codex and all the chest drops and ambraces/ectos from PvE! Then the people who love it will only play! /endsarcasm

You do realize that Hero Battles is PvP right? PvP meaning that it's competitive? If there's nothing to compete for, the entire format will be useless. I loved HB, I loved its competitiveness. I played for the competition in getting to the top ranks, winning an AT, getting a high commander title. The fun and the love came as a result of the competition.

This goes for any format in the game. Do you think anyone will be doing DoA if ambraces were removed? Will anyone HA if there was no fame? I know many people enjoy Speed Clears, but do you seriously think people would do it if there were no rewards? SoOsc without the Bone Dragon Staff? FoWsc without the end chest, just the word "Congratulations"? Why do you think no one does Urgoz, Deep, sorrow's furnace or other eotn dungeons (except Kathandrax, Rragar's and Slavers)? Because the rewards aren't worth it.

If there were no rewards in HB, it wouldn't be worth it. If Anet fixed HB like they were supposed to, there would be NOTHING to exploit. Also, even if they re-instituted HB without fixing it, no one would dare do Red Resign or anything like it (see my post above). They will get banned. Back then, no one feared doing it since they knew they wouldn't get banned. Now they know that it is against the EULA and that they will get banned if they did it.

Also, if you think that we want HB back just so that we can exploit it/abuse it, why on earth will we be stating the solutions to fix HB and to stop the exploiting? Please tell me. Who would want to abuse a format and state how to stop the abuse at the same time?

Throwing out 100's of examples that are irrelevant isn't helping your claim. None of your examples have been REMOVED from the game like HB WAS.

Simple fact of the matter is HB is GONE, it's been gone for a LONG time, NONE of the debates have brought Anet even close to reconsidering. The next step is to MOVE ON, or forfeit EVERY reason to abuse the format in hopes that you can at least bring Anet into the REALM of considering bringing it back, otherwise forget about it.

I totally agree with the majority of your post except the parts in bold. Nothing's competitive about red-resigning, /roll 100'ing, exploiting shadowsteps, etc... Also, no one would be banned for it because there'd be far too many players banned and Anet would lose alot of money by driving away their customers like that. Instead, they'd probably find ways to nullify/close those exploits [perhaps making like-colored capes and disabling the /roll emote while in PvP? I dunno... *shrugs*].

Actually, I was talking about the competitiveness of playing HB properly i.e. trying to go up the ladder, winning ATs etc.

Anet wasn't afraid to ban 3700 accounts in May. In fact, they actually made money as a result of those bans (people buying new accounts). Red resign is against the EULA (Gaile stated that). Those "far too many players" wouldn't Red Resign in the first place if they knew they would get a perma-ban. Last year, people didn't realize that it was against the EULA and Anet didn't take any action because HB was going to be removed anyway.

You've never done PvP before

It ain't irrelevant at all. You see, you are talking about removing all rewards, and so am I. Same scenario.

None of the debates have brought Anet even close to reconsidering because all the forums have Mods who strike at the chance to close a thread that's related to HB. No one gets a chance to say anything. This thread has been very lucky. *knocks on wood*

This post is completly right and anyone who doesn't agree with it either didn't play HB at least a bit , either is a big addicted high end area farmer.
I will say it again , people who played HB seriously did it because of the ladder and the tournaments ( so do people in GvG). If you remove those , then there will be left some casual players who will do 1-2 fights , and that's all.

Sounds like you take offense to this. I'm saying that i loved HB. I could go to HB and play anything i wanted to play and i did not have to put up with anyone saying "you;re a noob! or you don't have any idea what you're doing!"

I played HB for the fact that it was my choice of how serious i wanted to be. If i wanted to push the ladder i could. If i wanted to go and play 4 shadow form chars i could and i did.

Point being..i never cared to PUSH THE LADDER. I did end up in the top 100 bc of experience and i pushed the ladder at the end. I do think HB needed fixed and it needed more attention than it was given.

I want to see how the active player base feels about HB being brought back. No TA, TA was abused more than HB ever was in he fact that you just ran the same builds in it grinding a title...shove spike me in TA...


HB could be fixed in

A)delete zquest
B)fix shadow steps or make them unavailable in HB like some skills ARE unavailable in codex atm.
C)Leavers/resigners get 60 min(1hour) DH

/signed for a active player poll on HB

That's the reason me and many other players want HB back.It was even easier to test builds there than in RA in fact .... And once again i will say it , since you're alone , you don't have to deal with mates dcing /afking, hours restarts in hall/gvg, time wasting , ...

This morning ,once again, in Heroes Ascent , we get dc in courtyard ( leading to obvious lose ) , then hour after monk gets dc in antechamber ( obvious hall lose then ) . You cannot know how much it's annoying when you wait hours to form and play , then you get such jokes ( which appear really often)

Because YOU do not speak for the entire guild wars population, YOU only speak for yourself. If you remember the point of this thread (Adding a poll to the game), you would understand that many on this thread felt that if a simple "yes/no" was involved, then a large portion of the RRers would vote yes SOLELY because they could abuse the format and get cash easily. In addition, the amount of contamination the survey would recieve (friends telling friends which to vote for, alt accounts, forums, etc.) The survey results would only show which side is more determined to kill/revive HB.

If you want to keep trying to convince people that HB was worth saving I won't stop you. But understand this, Anet doesn't listen to its playerbase when it comes to pvp unless there is a major outcry. Until that happens, I'm willing to bet that Anet will never bring HB back.

Looking at the posts he did , i cannot conclude that he is only speaking for himself , but more likely for the entire HB community ( which means people who at least did play it seriously). If you removed the quest ( although it's not the reason HB was deleted ) , all problems would be fixed.

However , the end of your post is quite right though , except if we get a pvp thread with over 200k views( and even...) , they will stick to their dervish/paragon updates and crap which absolutely won't change anything ; and i am almost sure Codex will be let as it is , without any explaination...

I agree that I cannot speak for everyone, but in regards to the poll, having all those RRetards vote yes would actually help convince Anet to bring back HB and TA (and fix them too). Those abusers won't realize that when they start doing RR extensively, there will be a perma-ban waiting for them (since RR is match manipulation) and hence, the problem will be over. Also, if Anet made all the fixes that the true HB community suggested, most of the exploits would be gone and the abusers would be gone too.

Sadly, I have to agree with this.

I am actually surprised that this thread is still open. Usually threads like this one get slammed shut before any real discussion takes place. I thank the moderators for giving it a chance.
However, i believe future posts should be

/Signed
or
/Unsigned

for allowing the poll the be brought into the user interface/login screen and then leave it at that. Enough arguments have been made on the thread siding with HB and against HB. I think a poll would be the best idea to settle how the community truly feels and felt about HB. I know a lot of players who never tried HB and wanted to try it. I also know a lot of players who quit after it was removed because it was all that they liked to play. New players are buying the game still and HB was one of the selling points. However they log on and it does not even exist.

HB was a pretty shitty format to begin with given the atrocious AI of the heroes. If it were possible to command stuff like "go there, protect yourself on the way" and if the player could switch between heroes/his own character as if he was taking full control of it, it would become like a mini-RTS, which I think would be pretty sweet. Not that it's ever going to happen, but I'd play that.

That post shows that you probably never ever tried HB .Furthermore , as many people already told it , after some fights , it was easy to get used to heroes. Although The crossing map was a bit glitchy , i can't remember of any problem concerning other maps ...
However , correct me if i am wrong , but heroes AI is the same in pve , but i don't see that many people QQing because taklora not healing vs aatxe , because all party wiped by 2 SF mobs , ...

That can be easily fixed.

You're obviously missing the point I'm trying to make. Because the hero AI was so crappy and because they react really poorly to player commands, the things you could do with them were very limited. It led to rather shallow gameplay. Full control over Heroes would lead to far more interesting gameplay. I don't really care about PvE at all, so I'll just ignore that part.

I never set foot in HB not even RR days, to me it was a clear abuse and a just cause for a permanent account ban, yet people were parading to the Zaishen Combat flag like lemmings, the districts were full of abusers. Even if Anet did NOT fix this problem on RR day (which I would assume they would either remove it from the Zaishen combat cycle Or perma ban people for Match manipulation) I still do not see a reason not to bring back the format, IMO its already coded so let people play the format if they want to, just spend a little time closing up "exploits" however sloppy they want and bring it back, it wasnt hurting anyone as far as I am concerned.

remove the AT's, remove the Zaishen cycle or administer perma bans

As far as balancing the format, dont bother with that, people will just farm each other just like every other PvP format, same can be said for TA.

IMO having the formats existing is a step in the right direction especially since here they already exist, they just turned off the ability to access these arenas.

Why would removing the AT's make the format better ?

Let's assume this is true.

Anet has yet to see fit to grant heroes the power to not stand in AoE. Do you really think Anet is going to give them the power of variability in behavior?

As long as heroes are predictable, HB-type gameplay will always be degenerate. Therefore, if we assume that degenerate play is bad, then logically, HB must also be bad. This is why it was removed. Removing exploits will not remove the fundamental problems that created the exploits in the first place.

As long as shadow-stepping all over the map gives a greater point yield than standing and fighting, HB would always be degenerate. They can't get rid of the shadow-stepping without Smiter's Boon-ing the skills in every other format too.

Further, 90% of casual players would go straight back to RR anyway.

HB was fun when players played it....for lack of a better word, "honorably". Of course, that's not how you play to win, and since it's not like GvG (where you'll never get an match invite if you're an arse to play) no "honorway" was ever established.

Not true, I believe it's not hard to restrain certain skills for a format (just like they did in Codex)

Did you bother reading the posts above you?
We would only consider the return of HB if RR was fixed, and it CAN easilly be fixed.


Alot of HB'ers were successfull (MAT winners, top 10 ladder) playing "honor" builds.

Actually, having played it to rank two commander, i can say it was pretty garbage. Only reason i even played it that much was because i didn't have to wait for people, or bullshit around pugging and zero prep time.

Only way to polish that turd of a format would be with Morphy's idea of making it into an RTS sort of thing, and since that won't happen, i'd say HB should just rest in piece.

I hope you guys understood that the point of the thread isn't to decide if HB should come back or not , but to decide if a poll making players choose among HB + TA or Codex would be a good idea...

Heroes do kite out of AoE, but occasionally they bug up and won't move (I've seen this happen usually when there's some sort of boundary which blocks the hero's kiting path). There is video proof of this on one of the links on my link a couple of pages back.

If you didn't notice, the serious HBers suggested solutions which would fix the fundamental problems and as a result, will remove the exploits.

Also, if we assume that degenerate play is bad, then logically, every aspect of GW is bad. Think about it.

I'd take Codex over HB+TA any day.

Any specific reason ? People gave the pros and the cons about HB + TA ( especially about HB in fact ..), but we still got nothing to support codex in fact ...1 year after , the arena is exactly the same , as dead , where people are starting to do RR ...

None of which address the fundamental problem of heroes being predictable, thereby causing the most effective builds to always be the same ones that exploit this predictability better than the others. As long as this exists, HB will always be a bad concept for a format.

Could you please elaborate further on how heroes are predictable?

They have the same behavior. Which means that victory is determined by buildwars rather than actual skill. Whoever can better exploit hero behavior wins.

I don't know if you played Hero Battles at a high level , but players were micro'ing heroes , caring on flags , etc... Anyone at a high rank wouldn't react like : " omg dunkoro died while moving not using any skill " , then it's your fault if you're not paying attention.....

Aswell , you said people running same builds , buildwars , etc.. but in case you didn't notice , this happens also in places with no heroes :
- Heroes Ascent , BBway/Wota's/Usual balanced
- GvG : almost everyone running exact same balanced , but usually going to buildwars on tournaments.
So , i'm sorry but that's not a valid argument

what you do not realize is that high lvl hb gameplay IS/WAS like a mini rts. i know very good players who can micro 10-20+ skills. by that i mean disabling them on the hero skill and manually select it to be used everytime, even when out of radar (this is accomplished by pressing tab or self target once before microing, depending on ally or foe). it takes a lot of skill and practise to achieve this. in addition to microing skills, sometimes it also requires microing positioning and movement, etc.

however, that being said, i do agree that by the later period in hb alot of meta builds do not require as much micro as it used to in the earlier days, which is probably why you think it is so "shitty". this problem can be addressed by doing some changes with the skills themselves. namely, r/p and ss. back then the hb community had tonnes of suggestions for this, but evidently anet did not investigate much effort into it.

...which is what differs the good players from bad players:

good player-proper timing+anticipation+pre prot+good microing=heros survive

bad player-no timing+no anticipation whatsoever+no micro="omg heros got owned stupid ai is dumb hb is dumb"

in evry format when noobs get owned they will complain about something other than themselves, gg.

it IS true

in case you havent been keeping up with game updates, anet DID code the ai to run from aoe.

even if they didnt, its nothing to worry about because a good player will micro them to position anyways. when you see aoe micro hero1 hero2 hero3 individually to spread out, and there you go. just because certain ppl cant micro does not mean the format is bad.

the problem here is that your premises are not necessarily true, and, even if they are, do not lead to your conclusion.

as stated above in this post, what separates the skilled from the non skilled is the fact that good players can control their heroes better. this means that, as long as their heroes are being microed properly, they are NOT predictable. even if they run the same builds, there are many different ways a game can be played.

if we assume degenerative play is bad, then not only hb is bad, but the entire game is bad. plz name me one format in gw that does NOT have degenerative play. according to your "logic", we might as well all delete gw cuz its so bad.

true, exploits are not the fundamental problem. the fundamental problem is that anet completely ignored the format and has left it to rot on its own. which is a poor excuse of a maintenance job. srsly, can you imagine how bad gvg or ha would be if no there were no updates for it for 2 or 3 yrs? any format that received the same neglect as hb did will end up as a shitty format.

lol, honor in gw. gvg is honorable? looool

you lable the format as bad, yet you name the primary reasons why the format is good, nice.

want to find out what the majority of others think about that? /sign this thread!

the fundamental problem is not predictability, nor is a properly played game of hb predictable. every format has its own effective builds for its own purpose, its just the way this game is designed. but this does not mean these formats themselves are bad. you are only employing a typical double standard if you single out hb for that as a fault.

since in my last post i forgot to sign, i will /sign now.