Ganking in Heroes Ascent

That situations happens 24/7 and is really so annoying. As you know most of time in hall of heroes , when it's 3 teams almost EVERYTIME one team gets ganked on King of the hill or on capture points ( the same happens in The Courtyard). The problem in fact , comes from the reason of ganking :
- Because you're playing " crap build "
- We got MH/song/monk dced so we gank blue
- We gank all " euroz "
- Because blue team is too lucky ( lucky wins or 1v1) ( overall , luck appears in EVERY pvp mode )
- Because red team is in ally , so we gank blue

I won't consider people " ganking not on purpose " , i.e attacking someone because it's part of tactic , which will unfortunately fail or whatever...

Seriously , in a mode when you're waiting hours to form , to find opponent , is it even relevant to gank ? The only thing that it can do is in fact make people leave and make the arena even more dead. I can understand people are mad at some builds ( so am i ) , but it's not players fault ...

End of talk , my suggestion are :
- Make all halls 1v1 , teams being YELLOW and RED ( holding team will be yellow and not blue )
- On capture points , make blue base accessible
- Add Death penalities
- Holding team ghost doesn't cap altar at begin

Waiting your comments ..

Its not all bad, having 3 teams does stop 1 team holding halls for ridiculous periods of time (although this still can and does happen but not as much as it otherwise would.)

One of the sollutions would be to ban gankers for match manipulation. It's so obvious when third team caps altar and 2nd team goes full gank on team who just lost altar.
I mean you either don't deserve to be here because you're terrible and ruining the game or you just want the manipulate the match which is a valid reason for a ban.

Darth_The_Xx: you think holding team likes when they have 10-15 consec and then they get ganked?? It's just killing the game and making lots of ppl quit.

Those sort of stuff happen all the time I can tell you I have more than plenty of experience with getting ganked.
So ban the gankers (match manipulators) ty!

Making all matches 1v1 is retarded. Even a bad team can hold easily just because the blue team always has such a large advantage.

Im assuming that on the cap points you mean yellow base. Again, blue has a huge advantage already, why give them a bigger one?

The death penalty is probably a good idea because it stops teams from being able to tactically wipe without being penalized. i.e. infusing out before time. If you are going to do this, they should also fix the energy bug when you rez(unlimited energy for 2 seconds is cool).

The Ghost not capping in the beginning won't really do anything since the blue team can easily get to the middle and cap anyways before any of the other teams actually get there.

Also, if they didn't want people ganking, they would have banned people years ago. Doing it now would just make a dead format even worse since everyone in HA would be banned. And don't lie to yourself, everyone has ganked or been on a team that has ganked once before. Also, how would terrible people be able to hold if the good players didn't get ganked everytime they were there.

There won't be any more blue team , holding team will be on yellow side .

Eh, im still not to sure. So yes, by making the teams start on yellow and red they will be even but, 1v1's get kind of dull after a while. When 3 teams are on the field and they are all going for the win, it makes for a fairly exciting match up. Granted, ganking is always a possibility but after a while you get used to it. Besides, Honor Battles against the ganking team are always fun!

So I guess if you really want a fix, you should first find out if a majority of people prefer nothing but 1v1's or the mix between 1v1's and 3 ways.

Make all of the starting points equidistant from the altar? And Blue team doesn't get automatic cap at the beginning. If the team holding is good it should still be able to outplay its opponents and continue holding. I've no idea about what I'm about to say but isn't the auto-cap a sort of outdated remnant of when a) the game was active so it wasn't totally imbalanced because there would be a lot of 1v1v1, b) when holding Halls affected PvE?

1 vs 1 already exists, it's called GvG

I'd rather see them change the number of team members back to 6

This. BBsways are annoying as hell. Its not the wars, its the rit. Also, seems like most BBswayers can't think logically and rage more than other team build players. Gank for gank. Only my opinion btw.

To the Op.

You have some amazing ideas and I for one have been debating it for years. I never gank anyone anymore because around the time of the threats from anet on match manipulations I myself recieved a 2 week ban for only setting up gank teams in ha and ganking whoever had the most annoying build. Therefore I now fraps a video and send it to anet everytime I get ganked and needless to say they have told me that it is not match manipulation etc etc. I just keep sending videos usually 3-4 a day stating that in a relic run when its a 3 way and all 8 people + the ghost from one team goes to another team how can it not be. I know of a few people that have been getting banned for it also. But it doesn't matter 99% of the players now have multiple accs and will just keep changing accounts. Imo they need to make it so you can no longer skip maps so yes you may have the 10 minute wait for a golden gates match but you can no longer skip from uw to halls like most ganking teams do. Bring back the 3 maps that were removed. And or get rid of cap points, relic run, koth and go back to kill count. Kill count game has many flaws but it depleates the ganking.

Lol u got ganked! A) it's HA so who cares, B) don't run something that will get u ganked, c) get more friends and less enemies who will gank ya! D) ganking is fun, cos it makes people like you cry. What do u honestly expect people to do if they skip from uw and ur holding with bbway and a bunch of hated peeps?

Oh to missmelady, that's not what they meant about match manipulation. They were meaning fixing ATs and farming champ points. They don't care about teams ganking in halls. They might care if u form a team saying gankway but.. in halls, you nor anet can prove the difference between gankin and being stupid or just genuinly thinking it's a good tactic! Get over it, u got ganked, you clearly cried, so the peeps who ganked you clearly succeeded!

Sounds like the usual free for all tactics that I see in 1v1v1 games (not just GW)........

a) what do anet cares of ?
b)thanks to useful updates , except if i wanna lose to bbway/wota/balanced , i got to run one of those builds
c) thanks to number of updates in heroes ascent, especially situation on dead hour , cant do it
d)syncing ra is fun too since it makes raer's cry ? syncing gvg made gvger's cry but was banned...
e) uw--> hall is a typical situation due to activity in format..

So , next time i suggest you even go play HA before writing somethings..

Watching ppl cry over all chat is pretty hilarious, like if you just killed their first born child or something. Everyone has been ganked and has ganked at one point playing HA, pretty much Maver1ck87 summed it all up. ~QQ

All I see is a bunch of r9-r14+++ HAers arguing and pushing for Anet to change HA around to suit them better and their already high-ranked guildies/friends to make holding halls easier using the already existing and broken skills like Song of Concentration, Ward against Foes, Grasping Earth, etc... to help them get to r15 quicker. This whole idea reeks of elitist hall-holder's personal interest and gain in mind [ONLY]. Similarly, they and their kind just like to invite r12+++++++, [ONLY]. If Anet changed HA to fit their eliticentric idea, halls would be held 24/7 by their daunting group. I'm all for ganking, tbh. Keeps things fresh!

/notsigned

Ganking is faction farm.

Can you just explain how making every hall 1v1 , each team having same advantages/inconvenients would not be fair and would not help lower rank to win halls? I am sorry but when i go join a randomway and we lose halls 1v1 koth as red , i can't believe i am in a fair fight

Because there're too many bad players that enable good, or possibly even cheating players, to win. Yes, I said "cheating" because despite the recent bannings, players still continue to use sophisticated bots out there to hold halls [i.e.: monk bots, rupt bots, etc.]. On top of that, new players are inexperienced, and quite frankly are incapable of standing a chance at ending a superior, far more experienced group's streak in 1v1. Even with the 2v1 I've observed groups of newcomers that STILL fail despite having the clear advantage. So, having a potential 2v1 scenario even then isn't bad at all because they're bad at the game and often still lose to r9-r14++ groups. They're r9-14++ for a reason [because they're good at exploiting the game and its mechanics, and even bot to win against the more deficient players/groups]. That said, 2v1 isn't at all flawed. If there wasn't that possibility, you and your groups of r9-r14++ would hold halls until someone dies from dehydration/sleep-deprivation/etc. because you all would farm fame for days on end with your OPed players, skills, scripts/bots, party menu hacks, etc..

Any map that is 3-way map there is ALWAYS a "gank" happening becuase at some point 1 of the 3 teams CANNOT win, simply does NOT have a chance to win, if they resign, they help the team that is currently winning, if they stay, they help the team that is losing. They cannot finish the map "fairly"

This is not a flawed system because originally it was last team to cap wins, so there were no "ganks" and I am using quotes here because a TRUE gank is when a team just comes right off their base and tries to Wipe a team that they do not want to win.

If Anet would simply add some alternative win condition that would prevent situations where a team CANNOT win any longer and the match is only halfway through, then most people would play for the win, rather than gank.

Also Kill Count was the worst HA mechanic ever created, I never want to see its return.

Old school altar holding is still the best mechanic for 3-way battles and also to note, back when HA was altar holding (last team to cap) Broken tower was early in the rotation, it let people get exp. with that style of map facing usually weaker, to equal teams, and over time when they got to Courtyard/HoH they actaully had some clue as to how to win, not like today, there is no way to learn to play HoH except from winning it often, I think this is one of the biggest reasons for the format dying off, because as many people have already said, (leading into Ganking) when a team is totally clueless they end up messing up the whole match, have no chance to win, dont learn anything, and its probably MORE frustrating for them.

So basically, you think these imbalances are ok because it allows poor players to win regardless of their incompetence?

We get ganked a lot. In all fairness we gank people a lot and trash talk when we beat them 1v1. Usually when we get ganked in halls, we can turn it into a close match. How? When you start getting ganked, ignore that team and full gank the third team. Usually the team ganking you will realize they have a chance to win and will call off the gank, or lighten up enough that you can play a match. You won't always win, but the matches will be far closer than they would be otherwise.

Also, didn't one of the dev's talk about an update to HA about a year ago?

Absolutely! That's just one upside to it, too. The newer player's incompetence plus the elitist r9-r14++'s complete and utter arrogance makes ganking completely valid in my book. I'd rather see the elitist r9-r14++ groups get booted by way of ganking every once in a while than so see the same r9-r14++ group(s) hold halls every single day. It keeps HoH from being the same old monotonous r9-r14++ team(s) winning over & over & over again for hours, or even day(s). Those r9-r14 groups don't need fame anyways, and it gives other [albeit incompetent] teams the opportunity for some advancement, even if it's only a decimal amount.

TBH its a double edged sword. You can leave it as is and people will keep ganking the better teams/people they hate letting terrible people win every now and then or you can change it to make things even and 1v1 and the good teams will always destroy everyone and you will have it like the old days where one team will hold for hours. It seems that the best way to make it even is to go back to the old way of last to cap wins. It makes ganks a little less threatening and everything a little more even.

From what i have seen, you will never make halls a friendly place to play, you pretty much just need to get over it and get better.

Also , i think they should have changed relic run maps , it's really pathetic, with noone doing anything for 6mn usually ( if you do you get those : " red want a gank???"). They should just have added Death penalties in halls , for every situation , for a long time , so then people would try harder and play diferently ...

Once again , i logged in HA , 8 players not considering afker's , noone in halls i believe , so seriously can they just allow teams with 5-7 henchs or whatever , it will become worse and worse with time ... I know it will lead to some problems , but it's better that not being able to play ...

Anet took it away because people complained about not getting into teams and everyone just taking heroes and henchmen. They are known for barely reversing anything they have changed to somewhat make the game better/deader.

And again , we waited hours of restarts in zaishen and halls , and first 3 teams of the day we get ganked for no reason ( we were playing balanced ) . This arena is just pathetic really , i don't get why people have to gank on dead hours . They should add heroes back or make 1v1 changes i suggested , this is just completly impossible to play

I'm glad the high-ranked players get stumped by way of gank. It keeps them from getting far too much fame and steam-rolling new comers. It's necessary for this to exist because otherwise the high-ranked teams will hold halls for hours, or even days at a time. HoH needs to stay fresh, and ganking causes this. It's a positive attribute of HA.


This is a perfect example of why I'm in favor of the humble, lower ranked players in HA as opposed to your apparent favor for the elite, ranked players. I'm completely against the elitist spirit because they're arrogant, abrasive, and deserving of humility. Thus, I'm in favor of ganking! <3

It's just annoying how low rank players who have no idea how to play and win just go gank because they have super cool high ranked friend in other team... so yeah that always resulting in ganking the third team from low rank team side.
MY SUGGESTION = BAN THE GANKERS.. at least low ranked ones (under r11)

K , but then syncing in gvg allows low exped players to get champion points aswell?I'm sorry but your post makes no sense , and you probably never ever got ganked ( for obvious reason..)...

On a side note : why do people form randomways on dead hour , where the only 3 teams in are r11 balanced? the only thing they do is wasting their time and " feeding " those teams .. i don't get it ... Their play in fact makes the balanced for hours ...

The title of this thread is "Ganking in Heroes Ascent", not "Ganking in GvG", you sly elitist, you! How the hell do you get ganked in GvG? Explain this phenomenon to me, please. Do you haxx and create a 1v1v1 GvG in your matches?

...and not to brag [but I will], I do have my hero rank 3 [good enough for me; never really bothered to play HA much at all], and my rank 5 gladiator [on two accounts by the way] as well as every profession at level 20, suited up with 15k armor and up, rare weapons, Legendary Defender of Ascalon, KoaBD, several other maxed titles acrossed other toons, etc... I've been there, done that, my fellow rankist?

Therefore your opinion is not valid since you got 0 experience in HA and you obviously have no idea what gank is since with your silly 3 digit fame number you had no opportunity to gank or get ganked.
People who have at least r11 should discuss on this topic because people who are under r11 have no idea how to play HA.
Anyway, next time I get full ganked from start i'll just report the case to Anet and see what happens.

In a way , your gaining fame and items by not playing , in other , you're getting 1 point toward a title by not playing aswell.. no difference..
Also , second paragraph doesn't prove me you even know what ganking/being ganked is ..

Gaining fame doesnt make you stronger

Also the way ganks typically work here, is the low rank teams actually are the ones doing the gank, which takes them out of the match too, real smart, you just replaced one high rank team with a different one, how does this help newcomers?

Also the most "fair" format we had in HoH 3-way was Altar Cap because it actually required 2 teams to "gank" the holding team to kick them off the altar, and then the holding team would basically assist both other teams, by way of interrupting the ghostly hero as it tried to cap and assisting in trying to kill those ghost so that they could win.

Basically it was in everyones best interest to "play along" till the last second and your ghost may cap and you win, of course there were ways to maximize your chances, but it actually promoted fair play more than anything else we have.

Ganking is an art

[Nothing personal here, but...] Your post reeks of condescension, Rezz. I’ve ganked plenty of times in my past HA battles, but since you’re not me, and your patronizing attitude exemplifies that you’re an elitist, you’re easily lead to assume things of others based on “rank”. Misguided you are, indeed. Discussion isn’t limited to just r11s, otherwise the guru forums would be far more desolate now than ever. Condescension and rankism are some of the leading causes for HA’s death. The same two or three teams, and a few randomly assembled groups here & there [during normal hours] looping over and over, farming each other relentlessly, “NoP” after “NoP”, etc… all of it’s caused by this rank-requiring elitist persona that has lead HA to be where it’s at now: an utter tragedy. Also, I highly doubt that Anet will change the game based on the feedback of biased high-ranked players that simply want to win more. Your last line in your statement shows just how much you DON’T care about the players, only the already high-ranked players. That’s not what Anet centers their theory of balance upon.

You're absolutely right about fame not making lower ranked teams stronger. It's playing the game, knowing all the skill functionalities, knowing the game's physics, and using the most optimal skills, team builds, and tactics [i.e.: body-blocking, coordinated spiking, knock-locking, camping your interrupters on ritualists and other slow-casting foes like ele's, and domination mesmers with Diversion, Shame, SoHumility, etc. and even some 3/4 skills like BSurge or WoH].

Ganking is good for HoH in HA because it helps keep a circulation of teams going by offering the potential for elimination of even the high-ranked teams. It's a no-brainer that those high-ranked players come here and complain about it because they're not winning as much. These players are obviously selfish, egocentric, and wanting Anet to implement changes that'll in essence enable them to win alot more fame. All these players care about is themselves, not the players. That's why I think this thread is not going to take flight with Anet. Asking for ganking to be abolished so that it cuts the chances of losing in half, and then labeling this with "fairness" is absurd. High-ranked teams have a 1v1 scenario in just about every other map, and obviously reach HoH effortlessly. So I say they buck up, take on the ganks and prove yourselves worthy instead of coming here to gripe about loss.

hah and ur r11 so u wouldnt be banned. just make everything 1v1

To be honest, there are only a couple people here really griping, that is because most of the players that play this format take the ganks as part of doing business.

The problem with ganks as I said earlier, is that you are replacing 1 high ranked team with a different high ranked team. You have accomplished nothing.

If you really want the less experienced players or if you want all the teams to have a fair shot of winning, things need to change, you wont see ANYONE argue that 1v1 HoH is fair.

Changing the 1v1 HoH encounter to a fair one would in itself reduce the holding sprees because as you said every other game is a 1v1 where usually the new team that loads must /resign within a min. of the match. Nobody would argue changing this aspect.

If a 3-way map was "fair" as you seem to be advocating fairness in your posts, then explain to me how you are fighting the good fight by turning a "fair" match into an unfair one where one team decides not to win and decides who wins. This is no where different than the unfairness of the 1v1 scenario. So you are going against what you are saying.

On top of that you are not helping the low/inexperienced players out any by encouraging this behaviour because they are the ones that are likely to lose along with the holding team in a situation as this.

And to even argue about "ganks" is ridiculous anyways because NO MATTER HOW you play out a 3-way map, one team HAS to get "ganked" in one form or another, a typical Scenario, KotH Blue is holding, Red+yellow kick blue off altar, score is 4 0 0 Red caps, the score then becomes 4 4 0, at this point Yellow realizes that they cannot win, they have 3 options and 2 of those options give red the win, one gives blue the win. If they /resign, red wins the 1v1, if they cap the altar, red wins, if they gank red and blue caps, blue wins. There is no fair way for them to exit the match without "ganking" one of the remaining teams.

You can come up with many scenarios in a 3-way match where the pressence of the third team and their inability to win = gank even if they dont do it maliciously, their presence in the map with no hope to win will in fact help or hinder one of the teams that do have a chance.

The way the old HoH worked was that every team had a chance to win until the time ran out.

This is I think what you are hoping for when you are saying, a gank gives other teams a chance to win.

What you still seem to not understand, is that if all 3 teams actually try to win on Relic or Cap points in a 3-way it usually is a close game, and no ganks need to happen for any of the 3 teams to actually come out with a win.

KotH is the only map mechanic that you must double team the altar in order to knock a team off. The other 2 map types in no way require a gank to win if it loads 3 teams in.

1v1 is an entirely different thread because ganks cant happen hear, 1v1 is clearly unfair and anyone that has their run ended in a 1v1 KotH match knows exactly how lame this is regardless of rank or experience.

@ axe:

I'm not advocating fair, I'm advocating "change". Also, not all ganks are successful. Let's be real here, alot of the randomways are groups composed of fairly inexperienced players. Ganking, though unfair to the higher-ranked teams of r11++, enables two lesser teams to overcome and beat the r11++ to prevent them from having a long winning streak and getting to r15 in a month or two. It slows down the r11++ teams in their ego-driven race to outclass and publicly demean others with their tiger, phoenix, and dragon animations. You see this all the time in HA. People /rank spike each other as a way to taunt others. They're known as elitists, and the shallow-hearted destructors of HA. They need to be put in their place, and "ganking" does just that! It's like a whirlpool of chance that the r11++ teams will get overthrown and forced to start anew. I'm all for ganking because it slows down the progression of the higher, more arrogant teams. It's a price to pay for r11++ teams being the way they are, and I can truly care less if they suffer repeated setbacks in fame income.

Ganking has absolutely nothing to do with your utopian vision of equity.