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Originally Posted by Sisyphus
hope I am just reading too deeply into this... or will there be GW1 content updates we will have to pay for?
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What Does it All Mean? John Stumme Discusses War in Kryta Survey Results | ArenaNet
Jk Arrow
ilr
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Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook
I know that very few of my character builds and none of my Heroes are adequately designed for tackling the elite areas. The full hero parties will only help those who have the desire and time to experiment will benefit as they won't have to deal with the elitests and PvXers in those areas.
Hanok |
...really crosses the T and dots the I's on why this whole Embark thing won't solve much.
Example: Doomlore shrine. ...had 3 districts everyday until rushing by 600s/SF's was nerfed.
You really only get 2 kinds of ppl in those places. The abusive Puggers demanding holy trinities //Or// Pros charging everyone else just to tag along. ...everyone else who wants an actual challenge (like me for one), gets fed up and just leaves.
aspi
Hmm we also got new mini's in WiK, I wonder if they decide to give some new ones. Love me some mini warden or mini tengu.
pakhavit
Guild War Store : UNLOCK 1 HERO SLOT 9.99$ xD
Mordakai
I was wondering: IF there are new weapons for Cantha (like the Oppressor Weapons) do you think they will be allowed in the HoM?
I don't think so, because the HoM seems set. But then, what could they possibly offer us for rewards?
No, they would not do that. It would be bad for GW, and really, really bad PR for GW2, as people are already going off the rails as to what GW2 will sell in the store.
EDIT: FYI, I wrote this BEFORE the Epic Failure that was PCGamer's Dungeon Seller article..... my point stands!
I don't think so, because the HoM seems set. But then, what could they possibly offer us for rewards?
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Originally Posted by pakhavit
Guild War Store : UNLOCK 1 HERO SLOT 9.99$ xD
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EDIT: FYI, I wrote this BEFORE the Epic Failure that was PCGamer's Dungeon Seller article..... my point stands!
Gli
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
But then, what could they possibly offer us for rewards?
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Laraja
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Originally Posted by Verene
This will make finishing vanquishing a lot easier too
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I don't believe it will kill pugging because there are those of us (like me) who would rather do things with real people given the chance (I hate micro managing heros), and there are those of us who'd rather hang out with NPCs no matter how many PuGs are available or calling out for people.
So, I know I voted for a 7 hero party when I filled out the survey. It's really nice to hear that Anet is listening.
Sprites
that will be nice , i'll be able to do a few more things 
AngelikaStar
Can't wait to take them FoW and DoA again and maybe bit deep :P <3
Celestina
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
I was wondering: IF there are new weapons for Cantha (like the Oppressor Weapons) do you think they will be allowed in the HoM?
I don't think so, because the HoM seems set. But then, what could they possibly offer us for rewards? |
This is a stretch, but maybe a whole new armor set?
Like I said it's a stretch, but hey it could be possible.
Spookii
Squee! I'm so totally excited about the heroes and the Canthan quests!
Not so excited about this new Zaishen outpost. I've never been a fan of "teleport" rooms. They really take a LOT away from the game. What's wrong with just standing around in the mission outpost and looking for a group there? That's where you're going to find people that want to do the mission with you. I'd rather stick with this (which isn't posing any problems in my life) than to add another outpost that will just be laggy as hell to get into.
The same goes for quests - If you're trying to do the Battle for Lion's Arch, you're probably going to look for a group IN LION'S ARCH. It's not like you're missing out on potential party members because they're in the Realm of Torment spamming "LFG Battle for Lion's Arch!!!".
Not to mention, we don't even NEED a teleport outpost. It's not like we're spending tons of time going from place to place. We already have map travel. How could anything be faster?
Everything else looks great! The outpost idea, is stupid.
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And as far as what the new reward items for Cantha might be...I'd think it would be more weapons. Possibly weapons that we can display in our HoM. It would make sense that they can be displayed in our HoM, since they're trophies of our characters' accomplishments in the history of the world. Not just weapons.
Not so excited about this new Zaishen outpost. I've never been a fan of "teleport" rooms. They really take a LOT away from the game. What's wrong with just standing around in the mission outpost and looking for a group there? That's where you're going to find people that want to do the mission with you. I'd rather stick with this (which isn't posing any problems in my life) than to add another outpost that will just be laggy as hell to get into.
The same goes for quests - If you're trying to do the Battle for Lion's Arch, you're probably going to look for a group IN LION'S ARCH. It's not like you're missing out on potential party members because they're in the Realm of Torment spamming "LFG Battle for Lion's Arch!!!".
Not to mention, we don't even NEED a teleport outpost. It's not like we're spending tons of time going from place to place. We already have map travel. How could anything be faster?
Everything else looks great! The outpost idea, is stupid.
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And as far as what the new reward items for Cantha might be...I'd think it would be more weapons. Possibly weapons that we can display in our HoM. It would make sense that they can be displayed in our HoM, since they're trophies of our characters' accomplishments in the history of the world. Not just weapons.
NerfHerder
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Originally Posted by Gli
More minipets seems a safe bet. If they're going for that, I hope they'll make a mini ghostly master Togo. (So I can whip him out whenever I feel like it and rejoice in the fact that the annoying old coot is dead.)
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Xiaquin
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Originally Posted by NerfHerder
I got one better. What if the new hero is a ghostly Togo?
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FengShuiDove
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Originally Posted by NerfHerder
I got one better. What if the new hero is a ghostly Togo?
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Any of the Canthan heroes hanging out in Tahnnakai Temple would be awesome really.
Aeon221
Since I enjoy customizing parties in other games, like NWN2's SoZ, I expect I'll enjoy having total control here as well. It's especially advantageous for elite areas that previously required degenerate builds if playing with others was desirable.
OTOH I probably have posts from ~2007 saying that 7 heroes wasn't a good plan for the game. But since pugging is dead -- period, end of question -- for non-farm builds it'd be nice to at least have full control over the skillsets of the party.
As a side note, it'd be luverly if they allowed us to use henchmen as heroes with available skills restricted to core and campaign specific. Or if the five standard henchies were added as heroes, that'd be nice as hell too.
OTOH I probably have posts from ~2007 saying that 7 heroes wasn't a good plan for the game. But since pugging is dead -- period, end of question -- for non-farm builds it'd be nice to at least have full control over the skillsets of the party.
As a side note, it'd be luverly if they allowed us to use henchmen as heroes with available skills restricted to core and campaign specific. Or if the five standard henchies were added as heroes, that'd be nice as hell too.
cataphract
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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
3 heroes + 4 hench was more than enough to do almost all Hard Mode stuff solo. There's no need for even more imba power to a solo player. There should rather be serious added benefits for playing with others so players would have an incentive to go through the trouble of grouping with others instead of loading their imba 7 heroes and facerolling almost all PvE.
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As for the incentive of playing with other players: fun, humor, lolz. Or if you're a masochist - pugs.
a-kyle
When is this all coming out? next year?
Spookii
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Originally Posted by cataphract
Why should I, or anyone else for that matter, be gimped with uninfused and retarded henchies when vanquishing?
As for the incentive of playing with other players: fun, humor, lolz. Or if you're a masochist - pugs. |
I really liked how Guild Wars advertised that we could play by ourselves or with a group. I'd like to see that be extended across the entire game. I still think that grouping with other people will be popular. Both for the fun of it AND people are still more useful than heroes. I'd rather bring along guildies than heroes any day. Choices are never a bad thing.
Henchmen are ridiculously useless.
Sagius Truthbarron
Pre-Searing IWAY!
Charlie Dayman
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Originally Posted by Spookii
Henchmen are ridiculously useless.
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I just started up the WiK quest chain on my ele in HM. Given the option, I would have Little Thorn and Alesia fight to the death, then kill the winner because they piss me off so much. Regardless that henchmen are infused, they're still ridiculously delicate little flowers. Alesia can't even have someone breathe on her without taking some sort of internal injury. And Little Thorn is on par with Togo and Rurik for being the biggest freaking aggro magnets in the game.
I can't seem to find any PUG's willing to do these preliminary quests. And my brother, who is at the same point in the chain as me, only logs on sporadically during the weekend.
I really hope that full hero option is coming soon.
Aljasha
For a reason like that, it would be enough to change the rewards a litttle and make all these quests repeatable.
Longasc
It is interesting to see that those who NEED full hero parties are apparently unable to team up with other players because the other players are all bad (some self-reflection, please) or can't do it with henchmen.
Probably some of the 37% that said "too hard."
But 7 Heroes -> no more need to tone down anything, rather the opposite.
Okay, then let's turn Guild Wars 1 even more so in single player online, as nobody seems to care anymore this late in the life cycle of the game anyways.
But we should be aware that already too many MMOs have fallen victim to bad and boring gameplay because of this urge to cater to the very lowest common denominator. Ladies and Gentlemen, it is "War in Kryta", not "Farm in Kryta."
It is quite interesting that players have no problem buying Oppressor Weapons for 100P+1Ecto instead of just finishing WiK on one char and doing 10-15 War Supplies dailies on some others, casual Farm Wars FTL. Just upping the Henchmen to level 20 upon entering a WiK zone would have done it.
Now that Murdock is working on GW2, I wonder how the Crisis in Cantha will turn out. If it gets a lot easier and people cheer, we will know that the unthinking casual farmer mob has won by mob rule.
Probably some of the 37% that said "too hard."
But 7 Heroes -> no more need to tone down anything, rather the opposite.
Okay, then let's turn Guild Wars 1 even more so in single player online, as nobody seems to care anymore this late in the life cycle of the game anyways.
But we should be aware that already too many MMOs have fallen victim to bad and boring gameplay because of this urge to cater to the very lowest common denominator. Ladies and Gentlemen, it is "War in Kryta", not "Farm in Kryta."
It is quite interesting that players have no problem buying Oppressor Weapons for 100P+1Ecto instead of just finishing WiK on one char and doing 10-15 War Supplies dailies on some others, casual Farm Wars FTL. Just upping the Henchmen to level 20 upon entering a WiK zone would have done it.
Now that Murdock is working on GW2, I wonder how the Crisis in Cantha will turn out. If it gets a lot easier and people cheer, we will know that the unthinking casual farmer mob has won by mob rule.
aspi
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Originally Posted by upier
Also keep in mind how poorly designed WiK is.
The increased difficulty is created by making the mobs bigger, faster and hitting harder. And that was ALWAYS the worst way of creating harder content in GW. There is a reason why I only did WiK on two guys and even then SOLELY for the purpose of helping out a friend. I had no intention of actually doing it until I saw that the friend really needed help and wasn't just throwing fits. And since this was pre-HoM change, I actually gave my Medals to that friend because I had no use for them (well, he told me what weapon I should get him since you can't trade Medals). |
but we did have one Ele on our team in BLA and he was laughing of how low his damage output was against some of the high armoured foes.
Ayuhmii Shanbwa
tbh, i dont care whether its 7 heroes of full heroes
i'm not really an UW or urgoz/deep player
maybe i like to try fow sometimes with 7 heroes, but that may be the hardest thing i'd try (unless DoA is harder, but wont be there much anyway)
i made a whole list of what i like to do with 5/7 heroes (vq proph means also 5 heroes in kryta)
and i'm happy about anet saying: "free content"
people will still multiplayer, as some places arent as easy or as fun as it would be with players
and alot of players will like multiplayer more after a while
i mean, playing with heroes until GW2 comes... bit boring
then the new zaishen outpost makes it easier to team up, so will balance that part
and of course if the new upcoming content will be as easy/hard as WiK, alot of people like to use their heroes
as for me, i would do the wanteds and z quests some more
it would make people, like myself, who dont play much "elite" areas/missions, play them to see whether they (we) can do it that way
7/full hero teams by increasing the amount of allowed heroes one takes overpowered? NO
7/full hero teams + heroes allowing to use pve only skills overpowered? maybe
but, if 7 heroes are overpowered without pve only skills, then whats a human party which knows what to do?
if you have "the best equipped heroes you can make" VS "the best players who know exactly what to do, and are synced with each other"
then you must know the human team will win, even without pve only skills at all, as heroes arent synced, and you probably cannot keep up with all 7 heroes and your own skills (by doing it yourself, with commands)
AI still is bad, which is good enough to let us have up to 7 heroes in our teams
if you really wanna have a hard game, ask anet to disable the ability to invite other players
most areas are doable for some (or alot of) people without humans, but not all, meaning that good enough player teams can do much more
i cant see why some dont see that fact
anyway, this is what i had to say about this topic
EDIT: dont forget the bad attitude of pugs, which makes it much harder to multiplay, 7 heroes will restore that point
i'm not really an UW or urgoz/deep player
maybe i like to try fow sometimes with 7 heroes, but that may be the hardest thing i'd try (unless DoA is harder, but wont be there much anyway)
i made a whole list of what i like to do with 5/7 heroes (vq proph means also 5 heroes in kryta)
and i'm happy about anet saying: "free content"
people will still multiplayer, as some places arent as easy or as fun as it would be with players
and alot of players will like multiplayer more after a while
i mean, playing with heroes until GW2 comes... bit boring
then the new zaishen outpost makes it easier to team up, so will balance that part
and of course if the new upcoming content will be as easy/hard as WiK, alot of people like to use their heroes
as for me, i would do the wanteds and z quests some more
it would make people, like myself, who dont play much "elite" areas/missions, play them to see whether they (we) can do it that way
7/full hero teams by increasing the amount of allowed heroes one takes overpowered? NO
7/full hero teams + heroes allowing to use pve only skills overpowered? maybe
but, if 7 heroes are overpowered without pve only skills, then whats a human party which knows what to do?
if you have "the best equipped heroes you can make" VS "the best players who know exactly what to do, and are synced with each other"
then you must know the human team will win, even without pve only skills at all, as heroes arent synced, and you probably cannot keep up with all 7 heroes and your own skills (by doing it yourself, with commands)
AI still is bad, which is good enough to let us have up to 7 heroes in our teams
if you really wanna have a hard game, ask anet to disable the ability to invite other players
most areas are doable for some (or alot of) people without humans, but not all, meaning that good enough player teams can do much more
i cant see why some dont see that fact
anyway, this is what i had to say about this topic
EDIT: dont forget the bad attitude of pugs, which makes it much harder to multiplay, 7 heroes will restore that point
Light And Peace
Again, all of this seems to me as a move away from player to player interaction, which in the long run is worrisome for a set up for standalone gaming as they wouldn't need to worry about server upkeep costs, support, content development, etc.
All good things come to an end eventually. It's not like we haven't seen a serious downward spiral in play in the last couple of years. (let alone this year).
After HOM craziness fades, we'll be back to 2-3 districts of LA, 3-4 distrcits of Kam at it's busiest and continue to go downhill.
All good things come to an end eventually. It's not like we haven't seen a serious downward spiral in play in the last couple of years. (let alone this year).
After HOM craziness fades, we'll be back to 2-3 districts of LA, 3-4 distrcits of Kam at it's busiest and continue to go downhill.
NerfHerder
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Originally Posted by Longasc
It is interesting to see that those who NEED full hero parties are apparently unable to team up with other players because the other players are all bad (some self-reflection, please) or can't do it with henchmen.
-snip- |
As for Crisis in Cantha, it has already been stated that the HM version will be harder but also offer much greater rewards. I have a feeling John Stumme has a good idea of what different types of players want. And, they have learned alot from WiK. I'm going to guess Crisis in Cantha will have something for the casual and hardcore gamer.
FengShuiDove
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Originally Posted by NerfHerder
Its pretty obvious we dont NEED full hero parties. We WANT them. Except for the WiK content, I never heard anyone say that they want a full hero party because GW is too hard. It really comes down to playstyle. Alot of players want a full hero party so they can customize thier team. Most of us that want more heros also enjoy gaming with real players. But, the reality is that real players are getting harder to find. Any game besides WoW(which to me is an unexplainable phenomenon) thats 5 years or older runs into the same problem. The way I see it, Embark Beach and the Full hero party is only a pallative for those of us left until GW2 is released.
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1. People who love playing with others. They will PUG or run with guildies because it's how they like to play the game. Update doesn't affect them at all.
2. People who have a good friend or a few good friends to play with. I play with my fiancee a lot, and we'll continue to bring ourselves and 3 heroes each. The update doesn't affect these people at all.
3. People who use H/H for everything. These people use 3 heroes + henchmen or 1 player + 6 heroes (I do this for FoW and have seen several others do it too). They will benefit from the 7 hero update, but the strength of a team doesn't change all that dramatically. DoA and FoW can be done with 1+6, it's just annoying. The update lets these people play conveniently in the way they prefer. It doesn't steal people from the other groups. Really.
7 heroes won't end up being noticeably stronger than 3 plus hench. There's a difference, sure, but it's not gamebreaking. It's still not as potent as either of the other groups (playing with one other player gives more PvE skill/title abuse, and it only increases the more you party with humans), it just helps those who were stuck with henchmen or a "borrowed" second set of heroes.
distilledwill
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Originally Posted by FengShuiDove
Yyyyup. I see it this way. There are 3 categories of players:
1. People who love playing with others. They will PUG or run with guildies because it's how they like to play the game. Update doesn't affect them at all. 2. People who have a good friend or a few good friends to play with. I play with my fiancee a lot, and we'll continue to bring ourselves and 3 heroes each. The update doesn't affect these people at all. 3. People who use H/H for everything. These people use 3 heroes + henchmen or 1 player + 6 heroes (I do this for FoW and have seen several others do it too). They will benefit from the 7 hero update, but the strength of a team doesn't change all that dramatically. DoA and FoW can be done with 1+6, it's just annoying. The update lets these people play conveniently in the way they prefer. It doesn't steal people from the other groups. Really. 7 heroes won't end up being noticeably stronger than 3 plus hench. There's a difference, sure, but it's not gamebreaking. It's still not as potent as either of the other groups (playing with one other player gives more PvE title abuse, and it only increases the more you party with humans), it just helps those who were stuck with henchmen or a "borrowed" second set of heroes. |
jazilla
People on here keep missing the real point of 7 heroes: Post GW2. Once GW2 comes out 7 heroes will be GREAT for people wanting to work on GW1 HoM stuff to get items for their GW2 accounts. Also, you don't have to use 7 heroes if you don't want to and it isn't going to affect the economy. Someone using 7 heroes isn't going to get many drops lol.
Voodoo Rage
I never play the game with other people. I am a father of 4 and I'm constantly up and down off the computer. Even the time I played a short mission like "G.O.L.E.M.", I had to abandon my team unexpectedly due to wife aggro. I'm sure if I had the opportunity, I would enjoy playing the missions with groups. For a guy like me, the 7 hero setup would greatly expand my gaming experience at no effect to others.
vader
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Originally Posted by jazilla
People on here keep missing the real point of 7 heroes: Post GW2. Once GW2 comes out 7 heroes will be GREAT for people wanting to work on GW1 HoM stuff to get items for their GW2 accounts. Also, you don't have to use 7 heroes if you don't want to and it isn't going to affect the economy. Someone using 7 heroes isn't going to get many drops lol.
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Cacheelma
You actually get the same amount of drop with a full team of any kinds. That's how unrewarding group-play of GW is.
WinterSnowblind
I have to further stress the point of solo play.. I mostly play the game solo, but if I'm playing with others then it's ONLY with friends, I have little interest in playing with random people online. Since I wasn't able to complete the new missions using henchmen, and most of my friends have long since moved on from the game.. I simply didn't do the missions.
Adding the ability to have full Hero parties isn't going to change anything.
Adding the ability to have full Hero parties isn't going to change anything.
Charlie Dayman
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Originally Posted by Longasc
It is interesting to see that those who NEED full hero parties are apparently unable to team up with other players because the other players are all bad (some self-reflection, please) or can't do it with henchmen.
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If I had found a group of human players at the time willing to play along with, you bet I would have chosen them over the H/H option. But I didn't; I just sat around LA and wasted a whole hour of actual play time.
As for the difficulty; the WiK is challenging, but probably the most fun I've had in GW recently. I had a great time plowing through the early quests on my main War in HM with H/H, and never really thought of it as too hard. And for the record, this wasn't using boring Meta/PVX builds.
But jeez, trying to take on this thing in HM with my SF Ele? My heroes and I do perfectly fine for the most part until the henchmen decide to roll over and die. Then it's all bad news from there. Having a hero option would have been a significant help for me last night. I wouldn't have wasted that hour, looking in vain for a group to join. And I could have had access to someone who's in-game purpose is something other than a walking liability.
I'm just irked that I wasted all that time searching, and couldn't find anyone to play along with.
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by upier
Also keep in mind how poorly designed WiK is.
The increased difficulty is created by making the mobs bigger, faster and hitting harder. And that was ALWAYS the worst way of creating harder content in GW. |
Lanier
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Originally Posted by Longasc
It is interesting to see that those who NEED full hero parties are apparently unable to team up with other players because the other players are all bad (some self-reflection, please) or can't do it with henchmen.
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Plus, a lot of us H/H because we can't afford to not be able to go afk in game. I don't designate time during the day to play GW and then wrap the rest of my day around that time slot. Im often having to go afk in the middle of VQs or missions or dungeons to do something or another. This is a major advantage of H/H over other players - they don't mind you going afk.
You shouldn't just assume that people prefer H/H because they think players are "bad", because this is usually not the case.
vandevere
Really, it's more to do with my mood at the time. I have Guildies I play with, and I do pug sometimes too.
But, there are times I just don't feel like partying with other people; or there's no one around when I want to do a particular Mission or quest.
Whatever the reason, I'm just totally happy there's going to be the full Hero Party option for those times when I can't find people, or just aren't in the mood for people.
But, there are times I just don't feel like partying with other people; or there's no one around when I want to do a particular Mission or quest.
Whatever the reason, I'm just totally happy there's going to be the full Hero Party option for those times when I can't find people, or just aren't in the mood for people.
AngelWJedi
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Originally Posted by Light And Peace
Again, all of this seems to me as a move away from player to player interaction, which in the long run is worrisome for a set up for standalone gaming as they wouldn't need to worry about server upkeep costs, support, content development, etc.
All good things come to an end eventually. It's not like we haven't seen a serious downward spiral in play in the last couple of years. (let alone this year). After HOM craziness fades, we'll be back to 2-3 districts of LA, 3-4 distrcits of Kam at it's busiest and continue to go downhill. |
ThiafYeroled
>_> The elitist PUGgers creep ME out, and I'm normally up to par with their specifications. I can't imagine how casual players feel about them. The only way I'll enjoy grouping with random people I don't know is if they all suddenly become chatty again, like they were in the first six months of GW. Which, seriously, isn't gonna happen.
The wiki means that no one has to offer any advice or ask any questions, and people whine about how amazing they are because their HoM is full all the time. You guys who like grouping with humans? You should've been complaining a LONG time ago. Like, back when the Hall of Heroes was in the Tomb of Primeval Kings and you couldn't get a group unless you had literally been PvPing in there since the first day of GW, because the emotes meant people could prove you were a "n00b". This was in the first 6 months of GW, FYI, and is why I never PvP other than RA or AB now. The elitists are crazy, and not even worth trying to deal with.
Also, I play GW a LOT. When I VQ, I will always go AFK at some point for upwards of an hour to nab lunch/dinner/say hello to the outside world/feed my cat/do chores. Being able to do this during HM missions will be very nice, and taking maybe a little less time to VQ some areas will be quite refreshing.
(Plus, can you believe how awesome it'll be to have an 8-person Ray of Judgement Smiteway going on? Jesus beams for all! XD)
The wiki means that no one has to offer any advice or ask any questions, and people whine about how amazing they are because their HoM is full all the time. You guys who like grouping with humans? You should've been complaining a LONG time ago. Like, back when the Hall of Heroes was in the Tomb of Primeval Kings and you couldn't get a group unless you had literally been PvPing in there since the first day of GW, because the emotes meant people could prove you were a "n00b". This was in the first 6 months of GW, FYI, and is why I never PvP other than RA or AB now. The elitists are crazy, and not even worth trying to deal with.
Also, I play GW a LOT. When I VQ, I will always go AFK at some point for upwards of an hour to nab lunch/dinner/say hello to the outside world/feed my cat/do chores. Being able to do this during HM missions will be very nice, and taking maybe a little less time to VQ some areas will be quite refreshing.
(Plus, can you believe how awesome it'll be to have an 8-person Ray of Judgement Smiteway going on? Jesus beams for all! XD)
Sprites
heh except for pvp , cool update is this comes