Costume brawl 2010

I actually like this system...at least you can somewhat teach more people what to do.
Sure you can find a lot of new people playing CB, and a lot of them can follow directions (telling them to not go fight 5 red dots, drawing on the compass to tell them where to go and where not to go...). If you don't want to spend those 30 secs before a match to quickly tell them what to do, where to go, what not to do, then don't be that surprised if they too dumb things.

And I hate those people that resign as soon as we are more than 2 points behind...I prefer having someone totally new, than some kind of elitist whiner that doesn't want to play because "Just resign people, we lost. COME ON YOU'RE MAKING ME LOSE MY TIME".

On the builds, I like the ranger's. The ritualist one annoys me, so maybe I'll try it later.

If I had a mesmer I would be playing with it. The can do enough damage since the other can't almost do anything.

Ow whats up with CB this year super boring builds + new teams every match ugh"
Realy spamming 234.. on warrior or incendary arrows on ranger makes me jump:S nothing compared to the inbalanced but funny builds from last year. And the teamplay goes downhill with new teammates every match.. looking foward for good matches in Sb and DA

yea, imagine you have to do that for 200 games a day, and having people like that every single game. the reason you like this new format is exactly the reason it is not good.

Saying that you dont want more people to learn PvP(which is what you imply) is the same reason PvP is in this state to begin with. Elitism. What do you people want? A GvG rank requirement for CB?

And I like the builds. At least they didnt copy the PvP meta like they did last year. I bet whats really making people upset is that, for once, they have to step outside of thier comfort zone. No Frenzy!?!?! /ragequit

are you kidding me? how exactly did i imply that in my post? show me. i was only saying that after about, say 200 games a day, it gets tiring explaining the exact same tactics every single game. was i wrong in saying that? and how did gvg ranking get into this? maybe its a good idea to bring in relevant stuff instead of putting words in my mouth?

somehow, whoever did not agree with the new cb change must be labeled a elitest arrogant pvper. "you people" lol, this pvp vs pve debate is srsly a joke. as i said before, its just make dangerous generalizations for certain ppl to antagonize another grp, pathetic. it is not doing anything to contribute to this discussion.

My apologies if I misunderstood or misspoke. It has nothing to do with PvE vs PvP. It has everything to do with skilled and not so skilled players.

My main point about CB is that it might be a good thing that a group of skilled players(synced or random) dont stay in that same group. If all the skilled players are in the same group for 20-40 consecutive wins, then where are the ones who are still learning? Well, they are stuck with other not so skilled players and possibly the one skilled player saying "come on resign, its over!"

From a learning perspective, the old system promoted good players to get better and poor/inexperienced players hardly got a chance to learn from the good ones. The new system mixes it up so everyone can get a better chance to learn new and better tactics. Thereby reducing the overall numbers of poor players and rage quiters, in the long run.

And no you dont have to always talk to the bad players. Just lead by example and they can learn by playing with you. One simple ping or line here and there goes a long way.

Liking the CBs so far, it's nice not having to keep restarting until you get a decent team since the other teams in the exact same state as you. Also liking the fact I don't feel I have to keep playing when I've maxed my Balth faction or want to take a break. It definitely suits a less stressful playstyle.

Rit bar is a very nice all rounder as well and every profession seems to be on a fairly even footing. Only downside is the people who want to resign the moment they don't start 5 points up. Sometimes you see people on both sides assume they cant win and try to resign.

Ok at first I thought CB was going to actually be pretty good. I liked the fact that there wasn't going to be any syncers, but wow this is terrible. In the beginning I was winning every match, and seemed to have some pretty good teams. Today all Im getting are poeple who either want to all rush mid and sit there, 1/2v 4/5ing, leechers/afkers, and generally bad players who are calling terrible tactics.

I kind of miss the build of a team after you win the first few matches, though I don't at all miss the syncers.

tbh, i am not so optimistic about that. having played a couple hundred games in this new format, i have observed this:

1.for some reason the majority of the people have the pre-established impression that the only way to win is through fighting. consequently they completely ignore any strategic aspect such as capping, time killing, coordination, etc.

2.this new format allows too little time for good players to teach any of the aforementioned strategic aspects to the inexpd. there is only one game, and about 30secs of waiting time. once the game is done, most likely you will not see them again. in other words, there is only 30 secs to actually explain things thru text.

3.these 30seconds rarely have any effect on the changing the idea of killing only. most of the time when i try to explain things such as split+cap, time kill, or how to start the game, i get called the noob instead. very few ppl take these concepts srsly, even when presented to them explicitly by an expd player. and it is certain a short time frame of 1game will not change their views. the most common responses are the likes of "mob center and hold it", "stay here and dont fight", "dont cap just stay at center".

4.what about leading through example? well, by the time the game starts, the advices for capping instead of mobbing are usually dismissed, and people run towards the main shrine anyways. during the game i can call targets or draw on map and stuff, but not alot of people pay attention to that. the problem is, it is very difficult to establish any kind of rapport between the players to actually get them to listen to your advice. and one games time is definately not enough for that.

5.2 of the maps certainly do not favor substantial strategic play in themselves; the norn map and the lava map. as a result, they only add to the majority's idea of cb being a big spamfest brawl. there can be some strategy involved, and they are more subtle, but these maps largely reward the team who does the spams the most dmg in a mob. it presents to the players as if it is just another ra arena, which cb is clearly not.

then drawing from these observations, here are my concerns:

6.this new format certainly favors the majority of inexperienced players, but at a heavy price. the short duration of a team will mean that the experienced will likely be unable to communicate any sort of useful ideas to the inexperienced. but since this is the case, the expd players, wanting to win, will still need to do their best to carry their teams to victory. in that sense, it is primarily luck that determines the games. either ur good player sucessfully carries the team, or the inexperienced team makes too many mistakes and loses. in either case it causes tremendous frustration for the expd players, because it forces upon them burdens that they are not entitled to. and to amplify that, this is exactly what happens every game.

7.as a result, the good players will gradually be driven away by the unwelcoming format. by then, good players who are willing to give any sort of advice will be more than a rarity. their experience will mostly be overwhelmed by a sea of ignorance and hostility. the game play, by then, will mostly be degenerated into brawl fests and cb will be played as another ra arena.

as someone who loves playing cb, this is clearly not what is desired. but that is where this new format is heading towards.

I have been seeing the same thing and agree with this. I was thinking that if it was just random the first time in, done well, it might help to build a team, but do you think this would work. I'm not sure these players are going to start listening even after 2-3-4 matches played together, they are just going to continue thinking their mob middle is pro. There are an insane number of these players in there that I don't know if this would even help right now. Chances are, the good players will just leave until they get a team they feel they can win with, which still just leaves the bad players behind. tbh, I think I'm in favour of this right now, as these players have no hope. If you can't listen to logic then why should we try to teach you?

EDIT: Yup, screw CB this is terrible. Good attempt on trying to fix things, but the player base is just to bad at pvp logic

I'm totally bummed about the new Costume Brawl! This has been my favorite holiday event for so long, and when I remembered that it was coming soon, I had an awesome reaction (totally youtube-worthy) of excitement. I could barely wait to play.

Then I go in for a match, and the bars don't really bother me. But I got so sad when I realized that our teams were randomized. Last year, I had so much fun meeting new people and developing a camaraderie with them, making friends that way. I don't really have a problem with syncing for holiday events. I mean, I wouldn't mind syncing with my boyfriend for CB, since we both enjoy it very much, and it's another way for us to have some festive Halloween + GW fun.

Now when I play I only look at my teammates classes, and I don't even pay attention to who I'm playing with at all. There's no point in starting to build a relationship with anyone if they're just going to be gone again in 8 minutes... Which makes me sad. I love the GW community so much more than the WoW one, because of the ease with which I can communicate and get along with people. But now this feels exactly like when I played WoW. Just keeping your head straight and not making eye contact. GW really is becoming Single Player only. Heroes and Henchies are nice in PvE too, but they definitely reduced the amount of times real people would actually team up in a town and look for completing a mission.

Here's to GW2 and encouraged working togetherness!

So in your opinion, player ability is a resource to be distributed for the greater good (not counting those who are actually talented, who are of course anchored to a bunch of failures). Socialism sucks in real life, and it sucks in Guild Wars.

Here's a thought. In past years, a few good guides were written for the costume brawl. Anyone interested in learning might read those if they really were interested in learning the finer points. I say "finer points" because there are a few coarse points that people still don't know. Things like DON'T fight 2 vs 5.

When it comes to costume brawl, there's no secret to winning. The absolute number 1 strategy that will not fail EVER (as long as people actually do it) is to call targets and have everyone pile on it until it dies, rinse, repeat. You do not even need battle cry in order to do this. However, virtually every game I call my target and I'll have maybe 2 other players attacking it, and the other 2 will be doing some other RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing thing (who the hell knows). Not only that, but they won't even bother to call their target so I can switch onto it. The result is that our team gets spiked down while their team hovers with a few low players who stay alive.

The second best strategy (taking stupid players into account) is to get the battle cry shrine, then fight for the center. This is the strategy I always attempt since if your team IS good enough, you don't need the insurance of the battle cry shrine (but it's nice to have just in case). This is some basic math. Other things equal, the team with the BC shrine will win in an evenly matched battle. Once you have the center - don't camp it. Hunt the enemy, and for Christ's sake, don't let them recapture the BC shrine and team wipe you. A big hint about why you should avoid this is that it's EXACTLY what you just did to them. If they learn from it and you don't: oops ur bad.

The worst and (bafflingly) most common strategy is to go directly to the center and camp it. I don't know why people do this. So much can go wrong. For one: morale is shit and it doesn't win games unless you've got almost all the shrines (and if you do, it means you're successfully killing them anyways). Two, any halfway decent team can split off one character to the battle cry and then wipe you. Unless you are proactive and adapt to what your enemy is doing, you're going to die. That's not just Costume Brawl, that's not even just PvP. That's life itself. How is it that people don't know this? There is only one reason to attempt this strategy: you believe your team is competent and capable of following calls (laughably naive). There is only one reason this strategy works: the other team is even worse than you are.

Am I really being asked to teach these people how to play? That's like having a kung fu master teach your kid to walk. I am way over-qualified, and I loathe getting stuck with these morons. This is so basic that if you don't already know it, all I can conclude is that you're not interested in winning (or you're a massive strawberry scrubcake).

But even if none of that matters to you at all, I still have ONE suggestion that I think we could all live with. Split Costume Brawl into two staging areas: one for random trash, and one for a team arena format. There, everybody wins instead of everybody losing.

I was thinking about this myself but then wouldn't it just turn into Codex (team concept)? Or Gamer title discrimination? Wouldn't the same arguments come up that we have now?

Personally, I don't care either way as it's just a fun format that I rather enjoy. However, I'm all for getting rid of syncing but I think it (the randomness of teams) should be done before the first match and not after every win.

Well...no, because then you'd just go to the random version of costume brawl. Like how you could get gladiator points from TA or RA. There's no rank discrimination in RA. At any rate, all I'm asking is for them to introduce a version along side the one that already exists, with the only difference being that you can pick teams.

ANet can't do anything about syncing without doing this stupid random team shite. If they could, they would have. I'm aware that syncing spoils the spirit of the random team format, and if they could get rid of it in a way that didn't suck I'd be all for it. Since that dog won't hunt, all I want is an option for those of us looking for a challenge AND a good time. Is that such a terrible thing to want?

It's a fun change, good teams can't farm noobs, and gives everyone a chance to win. Also more costumes = win.

cb > codex arena

Impression I get from this thread is that the 1337 Steamroll-nubs-or-GTFO players are QQ'ing.
Isn't that a good thing?....

...what I came here for isn't being talked about....
IE: which primary needs the most countering and how to go about countering it...

Needs countering: Ranger, Ritualist, Assassin, and Warrior

Counter with: More of the same, + Elementalist for Warrior

Easy fix for current randomness:
Make random reshuffle after the first win and then the new team stays until defeated. Also make the post-victory waiting time random, between 4-9 seconds (between the 'moment of victory' and loading up new fight). The very same would also work to prevent syncing in RA without the need to rework the RA itself AND provide additional bonus to those who manage to win with no monk or in some crappy team - you change your team whilst still having 1 consec already.
If it's to prevent syncing, there's actually no reason to reshuffle the teams after every fight. And given that consecs bonus is taken away, people still may sync in, win, map out, sync in... and get the same rewards - if they'd want so, of course.

Thank you.

Actually kinda encouraging to hear War & Rangers are a factor.
...when I first looked at the bars, I was most worried Eles had it lock stock & barrel.

I'm actually finding myself enjoying the Paragon this year.........am I weird?

hm, figure now's just as good a time to give my opinion as any, after having read through a fair amount of this.

I understand where the hardcore PvPers are coming from. However, costume brawl is not hardcore PvP. It's about as casual as PvP gets -- as are all the events that feed into the Gamer title track.

I read some good thoughts here but I think the hardcore PvPers are overanalyzing this. It's casual, fun, fast, relatively thoughtless. I see some people fault CB for being simple mash ups........and I think, is that a bad thing?

As a primary PvE'er, I have fun with CB, and don't leverage the future of GW PvP on this. It is what it is and it's fast, fun, and simple.

This is not trival given how the game currently shuffles up EVERYONE in the arena at the same 30 sec interval. Including opponents for the victorious team's next match. (in case of consecutive teams a la RA)

I have to think this change is about more than just combating syncing anyway. It is taking from the elite and giving to everyone else. You wonder why GW PvP is vanishing while games like modern warfare and battlefield and TF2 continue on, it's because there's no place for scrubs and newbs to have some fun, and the elite are an inevitably shrinking group. If you can't let formats like holiday games and RA be the place for "degenerate" scrub play then where?

Regarding consecs in the current CB format:

10+ is not uncommon, 6+ is normal.

Speak for yourself. I take CB more serious than RA, even HA (being in HA guild). Why should we think about CB as a casual format? Fact that this area is avaiable only one time in a year it's not a reason. It's tactical, require coordination, thinking etc. etc. IT HAS EVERYTHING, WHAT NORMAL/SERIOUS PvP FORMAT SHOULD HAVE. New system just fails and it's incomparable to old CB. If they do the same for snowballs I think I just quit GW.
My record :S


Still, all depents how lucky you are. In 17th battle my team was full of noobs... 1vs5, this is it!!

Wasn't it a year ago that you win if you cap and hold all the shrines for XX seconds?

ED: Pretty unlikely considering Kysten Shore but I'm just getting that feeling when playing Whitefury Rapids!

I am speaking for myself, I think I was pretty clear about that.

As for why we should think about CB as a casual format is because that's how it was conceived and implemented. I don't care to dig up any quotes, but I know for a fact that the Live Team wants this to be a casual format and has communicated it that way. How you perceive it is your own prerogative.

Yhm. Now that famous word 'casual' means that every match you got bunch of useless people who have fun while dying, destroying others effort and only luck can help you. Doing win-streaks was a great feeling and that made CB way more enjoaybe. Also, bad players actually could learn something playing with good players and after some matches they finally knew what was going on. There were so many points why this change sucks so much, and the only opposite argument is that stupid sync shittalk.

When i see someone saying CB isn't a PvP format i just have no words.

I like costume brawl in its current format; the only thing I find particularly annoying is the imbalance of versatility across the professions. It's like some professions are either rock, paper, or scissors, while others (i.e. ranger) are dynamite.

Also, if people really hate shuffling after every round, shuffling after every 3-5 rounds may work better. It might do less to stop syncing, but syncing doesn't always work perfectly, so going through some trouble for a little 5 round streak might be enough of a turn off.

Alternatively, there could be a forced tutorial for anyone that decides to participate in PvP, so people stop doing foolish shit.

hitsuji, I can sympathize with your disappointment that this short-lived format falls short of competitive. But it is what it is, which for hardcore PvP'ers is as you describe it, and for many PvE'ers and more casual PvP'ers, is fun if riddled with tactical mistakes.

However, there are more opposing arguments than sync, as you put it. It's that it's fun (for some), accessible, fast, and casual.

And.......who here said CB isn't a PvP format?

OK, but ANet should finally realize that there are a lot of people and guilds, who wait for this 'short-lived format' all the year and when it finally kicks off they gonna spend all days playing it, like me atm. For me, Costume Brawl and Snowballs are the best formats in all GW. I have so much fun and I think there are one of things in GW which I'm really good at. Now, it doesn't matter if i solo 5 foes or not, my teammates can just destroy my effort, because I can't predict how will they play, seeing them for the first time.

I pointed it in my reply in other thread, but for unknown reason my post was deleted and that guy also deleted his post.

So all CB is this year is see if this round your team wins the big brawl at the start, if you win keep playing, if you lose just /resign and afk until its over. No point coordinating tactics with people who 75% of the time won't listen, and if they do you are only playing that round with them.

Sure is exciting. Just gotta get R3 for my HoM then I'm done.

You sick deviant

Well of course there isn't any rank discrimination in RA because it's random. I understand that. And, I understand that you'd like 2 formats side by side. Realistically, do you think the team format would have any people? I don't think it would. By the way, you remember what happened with TA, right? As far as if that's asking too much...no, I don't think it is. I just don't think you'd get the turnout that you think you would with a team CB.

Also, to add even more to this point: I see a post on here saying GvG is in crisis and is looking for new blood. Maybe the way the CB is now will be a somewhat tiny inspiration to actually learn the tactics/skill synergy/weapon swap managment required (I'm a glass half-full kinda guy...I know, I know, it's probably too much to ask for) to really want to try PvP and become part of that community. So, if you add a team-format version (referring to CB) how will "noobs/inexperienced" be allowed into teams so maybe we could learn from more experienced peeps? I can already hear the taunts: "Go back to care-bear CB noob! We're all proz here. No gamer no player", etc...

Again, I actually like getting a team of random peeps and having consecs with them, learning how they play, using different tactics and have a good time during all of this. I'm disappointed that teams don't stay together after wins (syncing should be taken care of in the front end IMOP) but it beats getting rolled by syncers by far. I'm also of the opinion that all of these festival PvP formats should become permanent year round activities. Then, some of us noobs might actually get good too (half-full glass, remember).

maybe they should just forgo the capping and use shiverpeak/ascalon arena type format
then it would always just be a 5 ov 5 BRAWL
costume BRAWL

I for one have never had a problem with having to brawl. Except on the Norn area map with 3 points. One team gets the periphery and the other gets mid, then you have to fight to win, more or less.

I've made a couple of posts in this thread trying to explain how CB could work as a "stepping stone" from low end pvp to higher end. I realise that over 10 pages a few posts will disappear so I'm making another attempt here at page 10.

You pve people want to have fun and not have to think about improving your play, not having to deal with better players so you can win more and feel good about yourselves. I understand that but there are already a bunch of formats for you guys. You have most of the game to dominate in the form of pve. If you want to pvp you have very easily accessible formats in JQ, FA and RA.

For pvp'ers there are really only 3 formats left: GvG, HA and AB. (CA doesn't count as anything.) As explained earlier 2 of those must be considered "high end" and are not easily accessible, not least because they require 8 players.

There is, IMO, a huge lack of arenas for medium skilled pvp'ers and pve'ers to learn and gradually move into more advanced arenas. AB is the best format in the game atm in this respect. People can come straight from pve, tab-invite a team and go. After some initial fail they will discover the first basic AB strategy: capway. And they will be successful with this, at least moderately and not get disheartened by losing too much. While at the same time more dedicated pvp'ers can form more specific teams and play to their strengths using individual skill and tactical knowledge. Sure, some games will be boring as you may end up steamrolling the other side but overall you do get games with good competition and a challenge. So it's a place where both "sides" can meet and have fun. It's a mystery to me that more people aren't playing it, I'm guessing they haven't realised its potential.

Now CB has all the same features you find in AB in this respect. It rewards good individual skill as well as tactical play and teamwork. In its old form pve'ers and pvp'ers alike could enjoy it. Sure people straight from pve would lose more, is that unfair? If you lose when you play bad it's an incentive to improve your play, it forces you to think about the mistakes you made and what you can do better next time. The exact same thinking that is absolutely mandatory to be successful at higher forms of pvp. It featured a format that pve'ers could enjoy from the start while still being forced to learn from it meanwhile. That's just pure genius if you ask me and I'm having a hard time trying to understand why some of you are so opposed to learning something.

This new version is forcing competent people away and some of you in this thread think that is a good thing, while even others bask in glee as if pvp'ers were evil or carried some disease. Yes, you win more when you don't have to fight better players. Winning is fun, we can all agree to that. But while making the format just a little bit more fun for scrubs we are throwing away a huge potential for people from pve and pvp to meet, have fun and inspire people to try other forms of pvp.

Instead of seeing this as 2 sharply distinct "sides" in the form of pvp'ers and pve'ers, how about seeing it as a sliding bar between those 2 opposites? If you have pve(plus FA, JQ, RA) on the one hand and gvg(plus HA) on the other, what's left for the majority(?) that finds itself somewhere in the middle along this line? If you can see it this way you might agree that we maybe deserve a little CB after all.

Sentences like this one forge the 'elitist pvpers' myth and feeling.
I am, for one, a primairily PvE player that got into RA a few days ago. Still, from the very beginning - and even during festival arenas for some time now - i do try to improve my play, change my tactics accordingly to what i see on the opposing team and i feel good when i finally beat a very challenging team.

You, and i mean plural you as the Guru/GW community, make one basic mistake in the playerbase division. You see either people who play PvE or PvP, arguing which are better and why, calling the other camp names, pointing out that PvX requires xyz so it's abc.
The division that should be made is that there are intelligent, self-conscient people knowing what and why they are doing while playing, be it PvP or PvE, and there are complete retards and idiots. The PvE playerbase is much bigger than the PvP one, so it's pretty simple there are more retards noticed there, but the PvP scene doesn't lack them either.
A player that primairily plays PvP may be a good PvEr after two days of playing there, simply as he experiences the threats and common game types of PvE. The very same goes for PvP - a primairily PvEr can hop into PvP quite fast.
But an idiot won't do any good in either format, being just a tiny bit less crappy in the one he chose as his main way.


@hitsuji: view it as a new challenge. Getting high consec is harder now, but still not impossible. It's not like you have four tards on your team while the opposive one is fully experienced, knowing how to behave and how to play CB as a team. It's all pretty random and casual, as it should be, but getting consecs is still possible - and if you have worse players on your team, it requires much more from yourself to win. If you can't rely on those three rookies and one decent monk too much, you have to put 290% of your own abilities in the game.
And you can still win.

Your average odds of winning each match is about 50%. You can lower those odds by deliberately playing badly, but there is nothing you can do to increase it. Really, there is no incentive to improve beyond what is the average ability of the other CB brawlers.

After a few hours of this years CB it's safe to say I wont be stepping back in. The constant rotating teams just annoys me way to much. I feel like I'm playing HB with people dumber than hero AI. While it was a nice attempt to stop syncing, if it kills off part of the player base whats the point. While on the syncing subject, I never had a problem with syncing. Whether it was in RA or any other special weekend event.