Ok, I do realise it's late in game. But I'd like to point out that last year was also late in game, and UW got lots of stuff added into it. So I think it's actually possible to get something implemented into Deep and Urgoz.
The response to the question "Why is Deep/Urgoz desertic while UW/FoW/DoA is so populated?" is really simple: Deep and Urgoz have no interesting drops. Zero.
UW has Minis, Weapons, Ectos. FoW has weapons, obsis. DoA has gems. Deep and Urgoz have nothing (amber & jade don't count...they're worth 100gp @ merch). So just add something interesting to the end chest of Deep/Urgoz. I don't know, an exclusive mini, a exclusive weapon, whatever. But make it be worth doing.
I realise Deep and Urgoz are by far easier than the other elite areas. Well, then make it harder. I know you can't put an uber rare mini into a chest that can be opened within 10 minutes by 12 people. But that's just a matter of fixing drop rates and all that.
In conclusion, just do something about deep & urgoz, coz they really suck nowadays -.-
Improve Deep/Urgoz Reward Chest
P_A_A
snowman relic
/signed
ive puged both the UW and FoW several times and long before the dhuum update i was able to solo the UW completly but ive never been able to pug or solo urgotz or the deep the only way to do it is with a experinced group really and the drops just arent worth it, fix the drops and it will become a important area in the game just as it should be.
ive puged both the UW and FoW several times and long before the dhuum update i was able to solo the UW completly but ive never been able to pug or solo urgotz or the deep the only way to do it is with a experinced group really and the drops just arent worth it, fix the drops and it will become a important area in the game just as it should be.
Do A Barrel Roll
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Originally Posted by snowman relic
/signed
ive puged both the UW and FoW several times and long before the dhuum update i was able to solo the UW completly but ive never been able to pug or solo urgotz or the deep the only way to do it is with a experinced group really and the drops just arent worth it, fix the drops and it will become a important area in the game just as it should be. |
Reformed
They already have exclusive drops. If you are upset with how those drops are no longer prestigious take it up with the people who turned an elite zone into a special olympics event. By the way, upping difficulty to compensate for slot machine style end drops is a horrible idea. That's why the overwhelming majority of people are drawn to speed clearing in the first place.
Vlad
I agree with u. the only reason no1 does urgoz or the deep its cuz the drops are shit...
/signed
/signed
P_A_A
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Originally Posted by Reformed
They already have exclusive drops. If you are upset with how those drops are no longer prestigious take it up with the people who turned an elite zone into a special olympics event. By the way, upping difficulty to compensate for slot machine style end drops is a horrible idea. That's why the overwhelming majority of people are drawn to speed clearing in the first place.
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You talking about those drops that were hyper farmed and dropped its value to ridicolous price because of urgoz's start bats? You talking about those? Not a really valid argument tbh.
You know, imagine that tomorrow you get ectos dropping from any monster in any explorable area with high rates. You realise how stupid UW would turn out if u also get out the exclusive skins and minis from uw end chest?
Reformed
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Originally Posted by P_A_A
You talking about those drops that were hyper farmed and dropped its value to ridicolous price because of urgoz's start bats? You talking about those? Not a really valid argument tbh.
You know, imagine that tomorrow you get ectos dropping from any monster in any explorable area with high rates. You realise how stupid UW would turn out if u also get out the exclusive skins and minis from uw end chest? |
May 2007: End chest goes in which drops some inscribable versions of otherwise non-insc Canthan skins, Pronged Fan, Serpentine Scepter, Crab Claw Maul etc.
November 2008: First faction rebalance including increase in cap.
December 2008: Second faction rebalance, includes the +10k bonus for HM finish.
tl;dr - You are saying you need more incentive to do these areas, I am saying there is plenty already there. In fact they have been generous enough to alter it not once but twice already to compensate. It comes off as greedy.
Arduin
You can do the Deep or Urgoz for fun anytime you want, providing you have some guildies or friends.
The only effect of adding more rewards is that area getting farmed/speedcleared/exploited where possible to hell and back, and there are plenty of those areas already.
The only effect of adding more rewards is that area getting farmed/speedcleared/exploited where possible to hell and back, and there are plenty of those areas already.
P_A_A
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Originally Posted by Reformed
April 2007: Scrolls go in widely opening up previously restricted access to Deep/Urgoz
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| May 2007: End chest goes in which drops some inscribable versions of otherwise non-insc Canthan skins, Pronged Fan, Serpentine Scepter, Crab Claw Maul etc. |
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November 2008: First faction rebalance including increase in cap. December 2008: Second faction rebalance, includes the +10k bonus for HM finish. |
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| tl;dr - You are saying you need more incentive to do these areas, I am saying there is plenty already there. In fact they have been generous enough to alter it not once but twice already to compensate. It comes off as greedy. |
Yup, people need more incentive, the one there is now aint enough.
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You can do the Deep or Urgoz for fun anytime you want, providing you have some guildies or friends. The only effect of adding more rewards is that area getting farmed/speedcleared/exploited where possible to hell and back, and there are plenty of those areas already. |
FengShuiDove
It's more difficult to access because it requires a scroll and 12 players. Even if the rewards were exactly the same quality as FoW/UW/DoA, it would be less popular.
UnChosen
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Originally Posted by Arduin
You can do the Deep or Urgoz for fun anytime you want, providing you have some guildies or friends.
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RedStar
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| By the way, upping difficulty to compensate for slot machine style end drops is a horrible idea. |
Actually now ambers and jade are worth around 1k because of the HoM calculator. But yes there is no reason to do these areas more than once except for faction farming... (and fun sometimes).
And for the "exclusive items" I really don't know how much they are worth, but I'm pretty sure that you would get a lot more cash by doing another SC than trying to get those weapons.
It takes less time to find a group for FoWSC or UWSC and finish them than to find 12 people in your guild/alliance (if you have managed to win with a PuG since 2008, congratulations to you) and maybe win...
Reformed
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Originally Posted by P_A_A
Don't know about you but i only play for fun.
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Originally Posted by RedStar
I don't know...I mean they did add Dhuum and his friends to the UW one year ago.
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P_A_A
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Originally Posted by Reformed
Then why are you so concerned about rewards?
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| Which was an attempt to foil speed clearing that worked...sort of. Instead of having every Johnny-come-lately running fast UWSC's it now takes a very skilled team to post competitive times with most casuals failing outright. Why should every reward oriented zone in the game be pushed to this extreme? |
FalloMeh
/signed. i totally agree they need revamped. and also nothin wrong with speed clears, god why do ppl QQ so much about how OTHERS play a game.
Reformed
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Originally Posted by FalloMeh
...god why do ppl QQ so much about how OTHERS play a game.
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Zodiac Meteor
/signed.
Slavers has ungodly annoying to get weapon skins.
UW has ecto's, mini pets AND UW exclusive weapon drops.
FoW the same thing.
DoA has the Gemstones.
Amber/Jadeite you can get by trading 5,000 faction
.
Slavers has ungodly annoying to get weapon skins.
UW has ecto's, mini pets AND UW exclusive weapon drops.
FoW the same thing.
DoA has the Gemstones.
Amber/Jadeite you can get by trading 5,000 faction
.
Gennadios
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Originally Posted by UnChosen
You need Eleven guildies or friend that won't look look at the area and rather do UW/FoW instead due to drops.
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The Deep is the only part of Guildw Wars that is functionally perfect. It's challenging without being fun-sappingly hard and the high party limit makes it possible to have a few useless dumbtards in the group and still get it done in under an hour.
The problem with the areas isn't that the drops are poor, but that the area is accessible enough that the uniques have been over farmed to hell. IMO that's a problem for the player base and not the chest.
Wouldn't mind a Mini Kunaxai though.
P_A_A
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Originally Posted by Gennadios
The problem with the areas isn't that the drops are poor, but that the area is accessible enough that the uniques have been over farmed to hell. IMO that's a problem for the player base and not the chest.
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snowman relic
What im getting from this is people expect others to do a very difficult elite area lets be honest FoW and UW became a joke while the Deep and Urgotz will probably always be a challenge but the rewards arent worth it so many easier ways to gain faction and the weapons are so overfarmed people give some of them away
RedStar
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| It's challenging without being fun-sappingly hard and the high party limit makes it possible to have a few useless dumbtards in the group and still get it done in under an hour. |
"Show stones" is the only way people have found to "prove" their experience. Yet it's a completely dumb way that should die a quick and painful death.
If you want to do a SC, join a guild that does them. It doesn't take too long to find a guild willing to teach as long as you can understand and follow directions. And they all exist : DoASC guilds, FoWSC guilds, UWSC guilds, Dungeons SC guilds. Yet there are no UrgozSC or DeepSC...you could try the faction farm guilds, but most of them just do MQSC/DTSC because it's easier and faster.
Lanier
/notsigned
The rewards there are fine. There are plenty of exclusive/unique drops in the deep/urgoz and there don't need to be more high end weapons in the game. If you want to do 12 man areas with people, then find a guild that does it. Guildies tend to be far more friendly than pugs anyway.
The rewards there are fine. There are plenty of exclusive/unique drops in the deep/urgoz and there don't need to be more high end weapons in the game. If you want to do 12 man areas with people, then find a guild that does it. Guildies tend to be far more friendly than pugs anyway.
Ninja Ninja
/notsigned
The Deep/Urgoz's rewards aren't the problem, its speed clears. The deep already has the kanaxai axe unique skin and any additional rewards will only lead to short term popularity.
I remember when the deep took 1-2 hours with actual strategy.
The Deep/Urgoz's rewards aren't the problem, its speed clears. The deep already has the kanaxai axe unique skin and any additional rewards will only lead to short term popularity.
I remember when the deep took 1-2 hours with actual strategy.
RedDog91
If you want it to be fun, try running the deep with 1 man with 3 heroes.
Can easily get all the way to kanaxai.
If you can actually kill him, kudos.
Can easily get all the way to kanaxai.
If you can actually kill him, kudos.
Xenomortis
Half the rewards are greens. That's the only problem.
And I don't really consider that much of a problem.
And I don't really consider that much of a problem.
caballo_oscuro
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Originally Posted by FalloMeh
god why do ppl QQ so much about how OTHERS play a game.
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Vann Borakul
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Originally Posted by FalloMeh
/signed. i totally agree they need revamped. and also nothin wrong with speed clears, god why do ppl QQ so much about how OTHERS play a game.
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Speed clears do affect other players, in that it becomes harder for them to experience the UW how it's intended to be and influences players to not even want to play it normally due to the lesser efficiency. You can't let players become spoiled for a healthy community, because it offsets the balance.
P_A_A
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Originally Posted by RedStar
Yet there are no UrgozSC or DeepSC...you could try the faction farm guilds, but most of them just do MQSC/DTSC because it's easier and faster.
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Originally Posted by Lanier
The rewards there are fine. There are plenty of exclusive/unique drops in the deep/urgoz and there don't need to be more high end weapons in the game.
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| If you want to do 12 man areas with people, then find a guild that does it. Guildies tend to be far more friendly than pugs anyway. |
It's not about it being doable with guildies, it is to make it more attractive for most of the people.
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/notsigned The Deep/Urgoz's rewards aren't the problem, its speed clears. The deep already has the kanaxai axe unique skin and any additional rewards will only lead to short term popularity. I remember when the deep took 1-2 hours with actual strategy. |
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If you want it to be fun, try running the deep with 1 man with 3 heroes. Can easily get all the way to kanaxai. If you can actually kill him, kudos. |
MithranArkanere
If just the items along the way dropped inscribed, I would go down there more.
Just getting a crappy req13 with no max damage at the end after all that time down there, makes you go back to dungeons, in which every chest may have a decent drop.
Just getting a crappy req13 with no max damage at the end after all that time down there, makes you go back to dungeons, in which every chest may have a decent drop.
KoalaGuy
Frog Scepters in Bogroot Growths
Voltaic Spears in Slaver's Exile
Bone Dragon Staves in Shards of Orr
Gemstones in Domain of Anguish
All of these "rare" items have plummeted in price since speed clearing those areas started. Because these areas have rare items, people speed clear them to get their hands on as many as they can as quickly as possible, and the price of those items are way lower than they ever should have been. Of course, I did not post all of the places that are speed cleared, but my point is, if rare items are put into Urgoz's Warren or The Deep, people will just speed clear these areas until those items are, like the other "valuable" items, worthless. The items found in the chests in those two chests are perfectly fine, they may not be worth much but they don't have to be. I would rather complete areas just to complete the areas, not for any end reward. Elite areas are fun the way they are, end chest or no end chest I wouldn't care, I would do them all the same.
Voltaic Spears in Slaver's Exile
Bone Dragon Staves in Shards of Orr
Gemstones in Domain of Anguish
All of these "rare" items have plummeted in price since speed clearing those areas started. Because these areas have rare items, people speed clear them to get their hands on as many as they can as quickly as possible, and the price of those items are way lower than they ever should have been. Of course, I did not post all of the places that are speed cleared, but my point is, if rare items are put into Urgoz's Warren or The Deep, people will just speed clear these areas until those items are, like the other "valuable" items, worthless. The items found in the chests in those two chests are perfectly fine, they may not be worth much but they don't have to be. I would rather complete areas just to complete the areas, not for any end reward. Elite areas are fun the way they are, end chest or no end chest I wouldn't care, I would do them all the same.
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
If just the items along the way dropped inscribed, I would go down there more.
Just getting a crappy req13 with no max damage at the end after all that time down there, makes you go back to dungeons, in which every chest may have a decent drop. |
/notsigned for OP's idea
Lanier
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Originally Posted by P_A_A
You call a handful of greens and zodiacal weapons that worth nothing nowadays because of a stupidly easy farm (even easier than keg farming) that happened some time ago plenty? Really hope you are kiding.
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Yawgmoth
They're "Elite Missions" but there's NO possible "Elite" drop from the endchest! The rewards for those missions were buffed multiple times so the average gains per run aren't miserable, but still something more would be great. Although there are two sides to it - if they would become the target for the extreme farming, the more common rewards would dramatically devalue so it would be much worse for the most runs and awesome in 1/XXX runs.
Right now the best and most valuable drops are some of the possible random golds found on the way there, not anything from the endchest.
Right now the best and most valuable drops are some of the possible random golds found on the way there, not anything from the endchest.
reaper with no name
The only reason the rewards for Urgoz and the Deep are worthless is because they have been overfarmed. It's simple supply and demand. If you add greater rewards, guess what? They will quickly become overfarmed until the total rewards of the area are just as bad as they are now. In other words, over the long term the only effect of this idea would be to give players more worthless crap to pick up from the chest.
/notsigned
/notsigned
P_A_A
You guys are seriously confusing the overfarming coming from speedclears of Deep/Urgoz from the one that came from this farm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmwWv7QcOzw
Imagine now that every single monster in UW could drop a Eternal Blade or a MiniDhuum. With high rates of doing so. Guess what will happen? That it won't be worth to complete UW anymore.
What Urgoz/Deep needs is an incentive to complete it, making exclusive items drop ONLY from END CHEST.
Imagine now that every single monster in UW could drop a Eternal Blade or a MiniDhuum. With high rates of doing so. Guess what will happen? That it won't be worth to complete UW anymore.
What Urgoz/Deep needs is an incentive to complete it, making exclusive items drop ONLY from END CHEST.
Sirius Bsns
How about some new armors? Kind of like FoW? And maybe do the same thing for UW? Just throwing that out there. It'd be the perfect way to create some more gold-sink if players just have too much gold/rare materials. Also, it gives GW1's artists something to poke their talents at.
Warrior Babes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RedStar
If you want to do a SC, join a guild that does them. It doesn't take too long to find a guild willing to teach as long as you can understand and follow directions. And they all exist : DoASC guilds, FoWSC guilds, UWSC guilds, Dungeons SC guilds. Yet there are no UrgozSC or DeepSC...you could try the faction farm guilds, but most of them just do MQSC/DTSC because it's easier and faster.
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Quote:
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/notsigned The Deep/Urgoz's rewards aren't the problem, its speed clears. The deep already has the kanaxai axe unique skin and any additional rewards will only lead to short term popularity. I remember when the deep took 1-2 hours with actual strategy. |
2hours for the deep? yeh sure when it first came out.
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If you want it to be fun, try running the deep with 1 man with 3 heroes. Can easily get all the way to kanaxai. If you can actually kill him, kudos. |
Quote:
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If just the items along the way dropped inscribed, I would go down there more. Just getting a crappy req13 with no max damage at the end after all that time down there, makes you go back to dungeons, in which every chest may have a decent drop. |
deep/urgoz has some nice drops
exclusive to endchest:
inscriptable zodiac weps (~40k)
Draconic scythe (90-120k)
6 jade shards/amber which are like 800g/ea atm
stones (so we can ask stone req b4 u can join the group ofc)
the useless greens.
i dont mind giving urgoz and deep another ''rare'' drop like a mini with a very low droprate, or a ''zodiac spear?''.. thats new! but i think making these areas more accessable would be good to (like make deep an outpost, then we can travel from that new town we will be getting <inset name instead>, so could make teams there)
paranon
I think that people fail to realise that by nature, the deep and urgoz are pretty difficult areas to SC, Urgoz has caster spike and deep has spiteful spike, both of which are more difficult than fowsc and perhaps UWSC, so i think that increasing the drops would encourage more pug groups and guild groups to do it, but i don't think the groups would be any more organised or fast than the guild groups that do it for fun atm. Also definitely make it an outpost, some people hardly even know the deep exists.
Scary
/signed.
They could at some more weapons. And those dont have to be new skins.
But a inscr. bladed shield, outcast shields etc ouwld be nice.. maybe they drop
but I have never seen them drop.
But a mini Urgozh would be great
Sure there would be some efforts to do speed clears but so what.
That is the only thing being done in UW, FoW, DoA try to make a fun random team over there.
So even with SC at least there would be some more activity again
They could at some more weapons. And those dont have to be new skins.
But a inscr. bladed shield, outcast shields etc ouwld be nice.. maybe they drop
but I have never seen them drop.
But a mini Urgozh would be great
Sure there would be some efforts to do speed clears but so what.
That is the only thing being done in UW, FoW, DoA try to make a fun random team over there.
So even with SC at least there would be some more activity again
mage767
Perhaps a few new nice weapon skins from time to time would bring a lot of people back to Urgoz/Deep. In addition, there is no reason not to change the mechanics for some of the rooms as they stand.
However, I think that the existing rewards are just fine for completion. Urgoz HM gives roughly 15-20k faction, takes 20min - 1 hr depending on the type of team build and guild, with people of course. Heroway NM is also quite easy, takes roughly 40 min, 3 man+9 heroes. In HM, there are about 6 amber chunks from chest + 3 to 4 more from turning in faction, plus 2 gold drops (even average inscriptable zodiacs sell 5-15k easy) and a scroll + summonng stone (which is quite useful for other stuff). So one can practically earn roughly 10k (in amber) + 20k (average drop value) = 30k putting some average 45min work in the area. Not bad, I would say.
Plus, did you try Deep ritway (aka spiritfest) HM? It is incredibly fun! Forget about the drops, drops aren't everything!
However, I think that the existing rewards are just fine for completion. Urgoz HM gives roughly 15-20k faction, takes 20min - 1 hr depending on the type of team build and guild, with people of course. Heroway NM is also quite easy, takes roughly 40 min, 3 man+9 heroes. In HM, there are about 6 amber chunks from chest + 3 to 4 more from turning in faction, plus 2 gold drops (even average inscriptable zodiacs sell 5-15k easy) and a scroll + summonng stone (which is quite useful for other stuff). So one can practically earn roughly 10k (in amber) + 20k (average drop value) = 30k putting some average 45min work in the area. Not bad, I would say.
Plus, did you try Deep ritway (aka spiritfest) HM? It is incredibly fun! Forget about the drops, drops aren't everything!