Skill Update Speculation - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Nekodesu

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2009

14 Nov 2010 at 01:37 - 241

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

I'll get flamed but w/e...if it comes down to a choice of allocating resources to a profession that is nowhere near the bottom in PvE vs. new content this is basically a no-brainer. I have a really hard time feeling sorry for them when Eles suck so much worse "at their job", especially in HM, and are much older.

This is why I HAAAATEEEE playing elementalist in PvE. The only way to get near some decent dmg is to eat every damn sweet in this game

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

14 Nov 2010 at 01:58 - 242

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekodesu

The only way to get near some decent dmg is to eat every damn sweet in this game

Or use a better build like AP nuke spam, ER, or something.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

14 Nov 2010 at 03:37 - 243

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

There was zero claim to this effect. All I saw in that post was about the CLIENT.

Same point applies. I'll believe he knows what the client's up to when he provides specific references to verifiable issues with the things we can observe (the .dat and the packets), pops a contraband copy of the source code out of his backside, or proves himself to be one of the rare individuals who can read machine code.

Quote:

EVERY single skill in the game has to be indexed through by the client at certain times, regardless of if it's being used at present or not. A database is required to sort through all the icons, costs, types, profession/attribute affiliation, activation times and conditions, recharges, descriptions including dynamic numbers, targeting, activation range, and all graphical effects to be pre-loaded on zone load. When you hit your skill panel, when a player or a monster uses a skill, all of that has to be prepared for - every single player and NPC on every team, every monster existing and yet to be spawned. Maybe this is handled on bootup, maybe it's handled every time a zone is done, I don't know the specifics, but bottom line is the client has to be on top of all of this. Despite their streaming tech, they've had to push a client update out for every single skill tweak - alot has to be kept track of to minimize client-server communication and maximize prediction.

So what? As a very wise comp sci prof once said to me back in college, "you know your data set is going to be small -- just brute force it." Yeah, so we're indexing some data on zone in. What gives you the impression that it's too much data? I see no indication from my end that performance is unacceptable, or even that it would turn unacceptable if another thousand skills were added. For that matter, you prove too much; you make an excellent argument for why the client has to behave in that manner, which means there's no point in complaining about what it does to performance.

(Actually, now that I think about it, it would be trivially easy to prune what loads by having the server query what's in the zone (static), what's in the quests in the zone (static), and what's on the player/hero/hench bars (static) and then tossing it off to the clients. Only downside is that it would create a vulnerability for a "I know my opponent's skillbar" hack along the same lines as the old D2 maphacks (server creates information the user shouldn't necessarily know yet, gives it to client, hack takes it from client and gives it to user). The fact that a-net hasn't bothered to do this implies to me that they don't see it as a serious performance issue.)

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

14 Nov 2010 at 06:32 - 244

MoI wasn't split because no one cares, and it isn't worth 5 minutes of someone's time to split it, let alone the amount of time it actually takes to make the change.

Yet apparently the community will bitch and whine about anything that moves skill power backwards no matter how irrelevant and trivial.

The biggest practical effect of this change is that less people will die to the Elementalist Construct in the future.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

14 Nov 2010 at 07:00 - 245

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Same point applies. I'll believe he knows what the client's up to when he provides specific references to verifiable issues with the things we can observe (the .dat and the packets), pops a contraband copy of the source code out of his backside, or proves himself to be one of the rare individuals who can read machine code.

It's not even close to the same point. Maybe he has read through the stuff firsthand, or maybe he's relying on the word of the numerous people who have gone through it themselves designing gstats or bots or skillmonitor hacks or whatever, setting breakpoints and watching how the skill data is enumerated. Unlike server stuff the client is very far from opaque to people with disassemblers/debuggers, and it is far from unreasonable that some kind of knowledge just might get out from what these people have been up to. It could still be wrong, but it's in a completely different category from virtually unknowable.

Sytherek

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2008

Florida, USA

R/E

14 Nov 2010 at 07:52 - 246

Can someone explain WHY the change to MoI is so bad?

If you have at least 8 Water Magic (9 is probably better), the recharge time is less than the duration -- so what's the problem?

Elnino

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

In a house

Proof Of A Nets Laziness[HB]

A/W

14 Nov 2010 at 08:06 - 247

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sytherek

Can someone explain WHY the change to MoI is so bad?

If you have at least 8 Water Magic (9 is probably better), the recharge time is less than the duration -- so what's the problem?

The problem is, this changed seemed to have struck a nerve somewhere inside these people for no apparent reason.

The change to MoI was hardly even a nerf. Like you have said, it can still be easily maintained and there are ways to prevent it from being stripped.

Personally, I believe that MoI wasn't the skill that should have been nerfed. It's the water magic hexes which are the root of the problem. Freezing gust comes to mind here.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

14 Nov 2010 at 10:17 - 248

Quote:

Can someone explain WHY the change to MoI is so bad?

Short version: meddling in one game format because of the other is wrong. It's not about the skill, it's about the principle. PvE and PvP need to be balanced independently - si non confectus, non reficat. Making unused skills even less useful only limits the non-broken skill pool available to players, eventually making players run the terribad broken builds not only because they're loleasy and steamrolling everything, but also there's no fun/useful alternative.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

15 Nov 2010 at 02:00 - 249

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warvic

As much as i hate KJ sometimes, i also love him for the things he does for this community

And this:

Thank you, I think?

Anyway, thanks to the guys who helped inform the community of the final deadline (like Jake/Errant Venture) on the update. Sorry we missed it by a day.

I hope the dervish update is on time, and I'll try to share any news about it that I feel is appropriate for the forums.

DRGN

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

In Memorium [iBot]

Mo/A

15 Nov 2010 at 02:32 - 250

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Short version: meddling in one game format because of the other is wrong. It's not about the skill, it's about the principle. PvE and PvP need to be balanced independently - si non confectus, non reficat. Making unused skills even less useful only limits the non-broken skill pool available to players, eventually making players run the terribad broken builds not only because they're loleasy and steamrolling everything, but also there's no fun/useful alternative.

As has been mentioned multiple times before, this train of thought is exactly the cause of a good bit of the broken stuff you're decrying. Pretty sure we wouldn't have stuff perma Shadow Form or Ether Renewal if they would have been brought into PvP, and the overpowered PvE-only crap could have been dealt with from day one if it was going to be. I don't see why need a split for every single skill that gets altered in even the slightest way; if you're arguing an actual principle, then a one second increase in recharge warrants a split.

ErrantVenture

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2010

Social Darwinism [SaD]

A/W

15 Nov 2010 at 03:26 - 251

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Short version: meddling in one game format because of the other is wrong. It's not about the skill, it's about the principle. PvE and PvP need to be balanced independently - si non confectus, non reficat. Making unused skills even less useful only limits the non-broken skill pool available to players, eventually making players run the terribad broken builds not only because they're loleasy and steamrolling everything, but also there's no fun/useful alternative.

What you don't get is that creating a news skill takes literally hours (read 6-7+) for a developer. And every new skill that's added degrades the performance of the client (more skills = more lag, crashes, bugs, etc). So stuff your shitty principles, if a skill change doesn't break PvE or PvP, it doesn't get split. That way the client works better and the developers don't waste their time on pointless tasks.

Sirius Bsns

Banned

Join Date: May 2010

PonG

W/Mo

15 Nov 2010 at 03:38 - 252

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

What you don't get is that creating a news skill takes literally hours (read 6-7+) for a developer. And every new skill that's added degrades the performance of the client (more skills = more lag, crashes, bugs, etc). So stuff your shitty principles, if a skill change doesn't break PvE or PvP, it doesn't get split. That way the client works better and the developers don't waste their time on pointless tasks.

There's always a way to fix and correct bugs, and I don't believe your statement about skill creation causing performance issues. Show proof, because I think that's just pure Bologna. Also, splitting a skill to allow PvE's version to remain strong enough for Hard Mode is not what I call "pointless", despite Anet possibly thinking in the same shade as you [because it's quite clear they didn't split some skills that evidently were already weak to begin with for HM in PvE]. Power Shot was also a random terrible nerf, a nerf caused only by GvG Ranger Spike abuse in PVP.

ErrantVenture

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2010

Social Darwinism [SaD]

A/W

15 Nov 2010 at 03:49 - 253

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

There's always a way to fix and correct bugs, and I don't believe your statement about skill creation causing performance issues. Show proof, because I think that's just pure Bologna. Also, splitting a skill to allow PvE's version to remain strong enough for Hard Mode is not what I call "pointless", despite Anet possibly thinking in the same shade as you [because it's quite clear they didn't split some skills that evidently were already weak to begin with for HM in PvE]. Power Shot was also a random terrible nerf, a nerf caused only by GvG Ranger Spike abuse in PVP.

There's no way to show proof. It's been stated several times by developers to members of the TK and it's common knowledge throughout the GvG community. If there's any possible way to avoid splitting a skill, the developers will take it because adding skills to the game degrades the performance of the client. If you choose not to believe it, that's fine. But there's no reason NOT to believe it. Why else would the developers avoid splitting skills? Contrary to popular opinion, they're not complete morons. If splitting skills didn't have some negative effect, they would have just split EVERY skill when skills splits were introduced, even if there was no difference between the PvP and PvE versions.

In regards to the comment about MoI in PvE. No one has EVER used MoI in anything remotely resembling high end PvE. It's single target damage, and it gets reduced to nothing by HM armor levels. Water eles don't get used in speed clears, or even vanquishing because there are better options available. Even if there weren't: a difference of 15s in recharge means nothing in PvE as MoI is still maintainable. Stop coming up with lameass arguments that don't make sense.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

15 Nov 2010 at 03:50 - 254

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

What you don't get is that creating a news skill takes literally hours (read 6-7+) for a developer. And every new skill that's added degrades the performance of the client (more skills = more lag, crashes, bugs, etc). So stuff your shitty principles, if a skill change doesn't break PvE or PvP, it doesn't get split. That way the client works better and the developers don't waste their time on pointless tasks.

Let me say this again: WHAT is your basis for saying that? How do you know how long the devs spend per skill change? DO you have verifiable specifics regarding performance degradation?

ErrantVenture

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2010

Social Darwinism [SaD]

A/W

15 Nov 2010 at 03:59 - 255

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Let me say this again: WHAT is your basis for saying that? How do you know how long the devs spend per skill change? DO you have verifiable specifics regarding performance degradation?

As I said before, I don't have any proof other than what developers have told me and people I know in the TK. I don't have specifics on the degradation of the client's functionality but I know for sure that it takes inordinate amounts of time to modify skills because of the style in which the client was designed. There's nothing in writing that I can post in good conscience, though. But as my previous post explains, there's no reason for me to lie and there's no reason why Anet wouldn't just split EVERY skill if there wasn't some negative consequence to doing so.

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

15 Nov 2010 at 05:14 - 256

If that rationale holds water, then why not take skills, which are of no use to anyone, and use that "spot" to use for splitting skills that have use. Basically from what I'm hearing it's a space issue? There are plenty of skill which are not used by anyone b/c well let's face it .....they stink. It would stand to reason that since they perceive some skills unworthy of a split, and nerfing them so they'll see no use....Why not them just delete those skills' "content" and replace them with splits of skills which are worth it? There's no point in having skills which won't see use. The non splitting of nerfed skills gives the portrait of irrelavence to the space occupied by the trivial version.

Short of the long......delete crappy skills to make space for the warranted splts..if this client issue truely is the case.

reaper with no name

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2009

FaZ

D/

15 Nov 2010 at 05:27 - 257

Because that would be equivalent to a skill change.

And those apparently take a long time because of the aforementioned client crappiness.

Xaft

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2010

15 Nov 2010 at 05:38 - 258

you know, all this talk about space and stuff got me thinking. if it is true that every map has to load the different visual and/or actual effects of every skill at some point. wouldn't it make sense to make it so that all pve versions only load in pve maps, and all pvp versions only load on pvp maps?

that way the client is only having to process one version of the skill at one time. it would allow for all skills to be split with no issues since as of this moment the client is handling more than what it will if an update like this ever happened.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

15 Nov 2010 at 06:05 - 259

Quote:

As has been mentioned multiple times before, this train of thought is exactly the cause of a good bit of the broken stuff you're decrying. Pretty sure we wouldn't have stuff perma Shadow Form or Ether Renewal if they would have been brought into PvP, and the overpowered PvE-only crap could have been dealt with from day one if it was going to be. I don't see why need a split for every single skill that gets altered in even the slightest way; if you're arguing an actual principle, then a one second increase in recharge warrants a split.

Explicitly answered in the other thread. You, sir, are wrong.

Quote:

And every new skill that's added degrades the performance of the client (more skills = more lag, crashes, bugs, etc).

Official quote or doesn't happen. Period. Sorry.
Moreso, i haven't noticed any more lagging or any kind of 'degradation' after the mes update in May and it has introduced several new splits. Even if it does degrade the client, it's not felt by the user, unless maybe they have created 3000 new skills.

Quote:

What you don't get is that creating a news skill takes literally hours (read 6-7+) for a developer.

As in: recoding the skill's recharge only, or testing if the update is viable and working? If it's the former, don't make it look more silly than it already is. If the latter, ain't it the devs' & TK, the volunteers, job to do? Just because testing takes long doesn't mean it should be avoided.

Skye Marin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

E/A

15 Nov 2010 at 06:57 - 260

While I understand that splitting skills probably takes a lot of work because it was implemented well after the original game was released, and wasn't designed to take in every skill, I still prefer skills not to be split if possible.

In my brain, I'm currently storing number data about litterally thousands of skills. It's in there now, and likely won't be going away anytime soon. Along with that is also data about almost all previous skill incarnations, updates, functionality changes, and roughly the dates that they were implemented.

The devs choosing to not split a skill is great in many cases because, for people who play both PvP and PvE, you don't have to remember both versions.

Besides, if a skill is going to be split for PvE, they had better make it worthwhile, else it's a big "so what?". I know I'd rather have impressive, fun, and unique splits like most of the new Mesmer PvE skills, than a boring, useless -15 second recharge on a skill that needs to be 16 specced to be useful anyways.

On time, under budget, or bug free. Because budget is hard locked, the only thing that will speed the delivery of updates and reduce bugs is for the devs to simply not bite off more than they can chew.

Aljasha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2009

15 Nov 2010 at 10:38 - 261

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warvic

As much as i hate KJ sometimes, i also love him for the things he does for this community

And this:

You don't do something for anybody by leaking concealed information.

aspi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

eeew

N/Rt

15 Nov 2010 at 10:56 - 262

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aljasha

You don't do something for anybody by leaking concealed information.

Well since he didnt leak any details only information on some I see it as pretty valuable.

Obey The Cat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

FFS

Rt/N

15 Nov 2010 at 12:22 - 263

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Short of the long......delete crappy skills to make space for the warranted splts..if this client issue truely is the case.

this is not that easy. you would have to modify all monsters with that skills too.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

16 Nov 2010 at 02:01 - 264

I was under the assumption that it was common knowledge that splitting skills causes the client to degrade.

The TK'ers have been told it numerous times and the GvG community has regarded it as fact for quite a while.....

Fillyra

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

16 Nov 2010 at 19:39 - 265

Do monster skills cause degradation too?

EDIT: Well, either way, I'm not implying to get rid of monster skills. I would like to know a bit more about some of these things though.

Sirius Bsns

Banned

Join Date: May 2010

PonG

W/Mo

16 Nov 2010 at 19:44 - 266

Okay then, I guess we can start speculating for the next skill balance and content, due 3-6 months from now, or whenever GW2 comes out [whichever's greater]?

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

16 Nov 2010 at 20:21 - 267

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Okay then, I guess we can start speculating for the next skill balance and content, due 3-6 months from now, or whenever GW2 comes out [whichever's greater]?

huh? I was under the impression that GW2 wasnt going to be out for a few more years at he minimum

ErrantVenture

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2010

Social Darwinism [SaD]

A/W

16 Nov 2010 at 21:04 - 268

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

huh? I was under the impression that GW2 wasnt going to be out for a few more years at he minimum

Nobody knows for sure but most people are guessing it's going to be at least a year until GW2 launches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fillyra

Do monster skills cause degradation too?

EDIT: Well, either way, I'm not implying to get rid of monster skills. I would like to know a bit more about some of these things though.

Every new skill added to the game causes the communications between the client and the server to become poorer. This includes monster skills, pve only skills, and split skills.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

17 Nov 2010 at 05:31 - 269

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

But there wasn't ever really a time when you needed a tank to succeed in PvE. People ran over Prophecies with 5 Warrior builds and have only sped up from there.

Wrong. Servents of Grenth and Four Horsemen in UW both require a tank that can hold agro. They are pretty impossible to manage without a tank.

PVE =/= running through prophecies on NM. Your reasoning here would be the same as comparing GVG to RA.

Also regarding other skills and the PVE / PVP split, skills in PVE do need to be seperately balanced to PVP ones because you arent fighting foes at the same level, or in the same numbers as what your team has. A lot of high end PVE sections are actually a whole lot more difficult than PVP is, and wouldnt be possible at all with the PVP versions of a lot of the skills.

Shadow Form is really the only skill that doesnt make any sense and shouldnt exist in PVE. As for ER prot bonding, even without a SC party build, its pretty much a must have for UW in HM due to how much damage enemy mobs inflict.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Yet apparently the community will bitch and whine about anything that moves skill power backwards no matter how irrelevant and trivial.

To the PVE communities defense, the PVP versions of skills such as Heal Party and Aegis simply wouldnt work in PVE. There is a lot of relevance to pointlessly nerfing skills in PVE due to balancing them entirely from a PVP perspective, this was always the case in the past before the PVE / PVP skil split existed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

Personally, I believe that MoI wasn't the skill that should have been nerfed. It's the water magic hexes which are the root of the problem. Freezing gust comes to mind here.

I agree with that. There wasnt anything wrong with MoI before, or after the update. Its a pretty weak elite when you compare it to all the others that are used in a team, it just makes the best choice if you plan on using a water elly with freezing gust, blurred vision, and other water hex spells.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

17 Nov 2010 at 08:37 - 270

You certainly don't need an ER Prot to clear the UW. If you're talking about Aatxes dealing 500 damage a hit, well, I've killed Aatxes in HM with just me + 3 heroes, and I didn't use an ER Ele. You certainly don't need to hold aggro in 4H either; you can just camp by the Reaper and kill all the incoming monsters ...

Quote:

To the PVE communities defense, the PVP versions of skills such as Heal Party and Aegis simply wouldnt work in PVE. There is a lot of relevance to pointlessly nerfing skills in PVE due to balancing them entirely from a PVP perspective, this was always the case in the past before the PVE / PVP skil split existed.

True enough, but with the PvE / PvP skill split then all the skills that are overpowered in PvE but not in PvP should be nerfed too yes? And there are a lot of those ...

Originally I wasn't against the PvE / PvP skill split, but then Silmor convinced me otherwise. It makes the game more complex, and it makes it harder for both PvE'ers and PvP'ers to get into the other arena. PvP'ers already need to contend with the hundreds of PvE-only skills like Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, PvE'ers with the different PvP skills. Have you for example seen Ritualists using Signet of Spirits in PvP?

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

17 Nov 2010 at 09:02 - 271

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Wrong. Servents of Grenth and Four Horsemen in UW both require a tank that can hold agro. They are pretty impossible to manage without a tank.

No, you have to split. That's something different entirely.

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

17 Nov 2010 at 09:32 - 272

Shelter, Union, Displacement, Rt Lord/Soul Twist make ER redundant in pretty much every area of the game. Two Rit backline of spirits; one with Shelter and the other with Life/Rejuv. Easy heals.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

17 Nov 2010 at 11:10 - 273

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

you can just camp by the Reaper and kill all the incoming monsters ...

I'm not sure on that.
Certainly it's risky - the only time I'd say you could reliably pull it off is with ER - one ER Ele camping the Reaper can keep him alive whilst your team deals with two of the horsemen and then you can engage the other two.

Fighting around the Reaper is just asking for trouble - splitting is better.

DeanBB

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Arizona

Wizardry Players Guild, http://4guildwars.7.forumer.com

17 Nov 2010 at 13:25 - 274

Continuing the off-topic discussion...

For UW, when our guild tackles the 4 horsemen we have the spirit spamming rit go out and place spirits in a spread out path to delay one side while everyone else hammers the other. By the time the "rit side" chews through all the spirits the enemies are weakened enough that finishing them off at the reaper is not a big deal.

So our "tank" is the spirits and there is somewhat of a split.

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

17 Nov 2010 at 14:01 - 275

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Scheduled (hopefully) before Christmas
Dervish changes

AoHM buff

Wait, what?

AoHM is basically bugged as it is (changes dmg to holy dmg and adds dmg instead of %dmg) and is one of the most if not the most OP dervish skill in the game. Every PvE Derv or scythe secondary (A/D, W/D, R/D) has this hotglued onto their bar if they have any clue what they are doing. And they want to buff it?

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

17 Nov 2010 at 15:07 - 276

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Wait, what?

AoHM is basically bugged as it is (changes dmg to holy dmg and adds dmg instead of %dmg) and is one of the most if not the most OP dervish skill in the game. Every PvE Derv or scythe secondary (A/D, W/D, R/D) has this hotglued onto their bar if they have any clue what they are doing. And they want to buff it?

Well, again, none of this is final. That was one of the skills they're looking at, and it was definitely buffed in the skill description (deeeefinitely buffed). So, you never know. They might pull it, or just link it to Mysticism, I don't know.

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

17 Nov 2010 at 15:44 - 277

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Well, again, none of this is final. That was one of the skills they're looking at, and it was definitely buffed in the skill description (deeeefinitely buffed). So, you never know. They might pull it, or just link it to Mysticism, I don't know.

I get that none of this is final. But even the idea of buffing it sounds ridiculous. Just fix it (the two anomalies) or nerf it (tie it to mysticism) or even leave it as is.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

17 Nov 2010 at 15:58 - 278

There will be some fun to be had for sure with "flash enchantments"+Extend Enchantments for sure. I can't wait!

reaper with no name

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2009

FaZ

D/

17 Nov 2010 at 16:32 - 279

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Shelter, Union, Displacement, Rt Lord/Soul Twist make ER redundant in pretty much every area of the game. Two Rit backline of spirits; one with Shelter and the other with Life/Rejuv. Easy heals.

While the power of the partywide prot machine that is the ST rit is not to be underestimated, one thing it can't do is Infuse spam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Wait, what?

AoHM is basically bugged as it is (changes dmg to holy dmg and adds dmg instead of %dmg) and is one of the most if not the most OP dervish skill in the game. Every PvE Derv or scythe secondary (A/D, W/D, R/D) has this hotglued onto their bar if they have any clue what they are doing. And they want to buff it?

It doesn't add damage per se; it adds to your damage rating, and thereby indirectly increases damage in the same way that higher weapon ranks do. It's a nitpick, I know.

But in any case, like it or not, this skill is inextricably tied to the worth of the scythe, just as Death Blossom is to daggers or SY is to Paragons. To nerf it without making the profession suck as a whole would require a total rework of it's mechanics (even more so than they are doing, assuming this update ever gets done). This would likely require far more resources than Anet is willing or possibly even able to devote to it.

Of course, what would be even better would be to nerf everything down to the point where overpowered skills like AoHM are no longer necessary for "balance" and then get rid of it. But that would be even harder.

Like the skill split, AoHM is here to stay. We might as well make use of it to attain some semblance of class balance.

WarcryOfTruth

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Join Date: Nov 2009

Atlanta

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17 Nov 2010 at 16:48 - 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I'm not sure on that.
Certainly it's risky - the only time I'd say you could reliably pull it off is with ER - one ER Ele camping the Reaper can keep him alive whilst your team deals with two of the horsemen and then you can engage the other two.

Fighting around the Reaper is just asking for trouble - splitting is better.

Not true, my first UW HM clear was before Dhuum, and it was balanced. No ER, no Obsidian or Shadow Form Tank. We did it just by standing near the reaper and killing both groups together, letting the Reaper take the bulk of the damage (at level 28 he can take a beating). And remember, being that this was before Dhuum, this was when the quest was harder, i.e more Dryders, but no Skeletons.