EU players on US servers, why?

Just made a full doa run. Euro dist was almost dead so I went to american dist and got in a pug fairly fast. One monk and a dwg were spanish and couldnt even speak english, but the team leader could translate when needed to discuss skills etc. Later it turned out that the the only american on the team was not from USA, but Argentina lol.
I am starting to think that the majority of people in american districts are actually not americans.

Wouldn't be surprising at all.
If we had a little flag next to where the Profession letter an level are when you are not in a party, you'll probably see people from everywhere most of the time, and from the USA in a limited frame of time.

If you go to RA you will notice that 90% of the time the server you're playing in is European even when entering from American districts, so the majority of players in every RA game are European...

5 minutes ago:

Kamadan America: 7 districts
Kamadan Eu-Eng: 7 people

Sifhalla, place of Nicholas the Traveler and yesterday's and today's Zaishen Bounty:
America: 4 districts
Eu-Eng: 4 people

I never had any problems with EU servers, Im having way nicer ping there as am euro etc, But allways when i Trade etc, i go American cus there is just more ppl on em. If i play solo ill go euro

There may be another factor, you post at 3:40 AM, for europe, whichwould be around 7, 8 in the evening in the US. Few people are up at 3:40 AM and those that are might seek out the more populated US servers.

But I don't see more then one EU-E district active at any time.

because we can't stand seeing frogtalk all over the place

The ones who need a touch with reality are ignorants, who could switch language to English with mere two clicks in game options and advertise in English to sell/buy stuff faster and have a better go in trade channels. I'm sorry but Spanish, German and French aren't global languages.

I'm afraid that some minimum standard has to be enforced in the game, unless you don't mind an isolated and hostile segment of community, which will only keep growing. People who are capable only of basic interaction with NPCs and mobs on a global level prove detrimental, you can't just ignore the problem that they introduce.

I'm sorry, but these guys aren't playing a SP game, they're supposed to communicate in most basic manner since the actual 'meat' of the game is interacting with other people. This hasn't and won't change, it's all about people.

@ Iuris

By going by your logic it's better for Joe to learn several different languages so that Freddy Jamie and George can all understand him in their native languages, instead of Joe Freddy Jamie and George all learning just one, global language at a most basic, communicative level? Mind I add, poor Joe would have to translate to every one of the participants what the others are talking about, as I don't quite see any sense in Joe Freddy Jamie and George all learning each others' languages, and every one of them using their native language, since the goal is communication and not a course in rhetoric or poetry recitation.

I mean, come on, this is English 101, 3 classes in the primary school! It can be clearly seen in today's world how not knowing most basic English is a problem for everyone involved. Africa, are you kidding me? Playerbase from Africa is so low that it almost doesn't matter, with majority coming from Egypt or South African Republic, likely after basic contact with English language.

The problem lies in Europe, silly national mentality. It's not detrimental for you to learn English besides your native language or any other foreign language. Don't you see it's highly unlikely for a gamer to know various foreign languages? Your only hope is in primary education teaching them basic English. The moment you try to learn them a multitude of languages on a most basic level, you're set for failure.

Give me a viable alternative for mainstream gamers to communicate, which is within bounds of reality, instead of introducing strawman arguments, please. I don't care what a Frenchman thinks when I tell him it's best to use English on the team channel with X people on it, I don't care about his stupid national pride.

As far as I know he isn't playing a localised game version on French-only servers with foreign IP block, therefore it is the Frenchman that is obliged to conform to the rules of 'global game' and not the 'everyone else' that is obliged to conform to the rules of the 'insulted Frenchman'.

Guess what, you have damned Polish, German, French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese and what not in your town district, and it's complete lunacy to expect every single of them to be 'sorry' for not being either a German or a French. Unless all of these different people agree to use a one, common, understandable language, it's basically going nowhere.

This

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You don't seriously think that a Dutch person partying with people from other countries types in Dutch in team chat right?

What is the case is that a Dutch person talking to another Dutch person will type in Dutch. It is more convenient, faster, easier and many will have a much broader vocabulary in their own language. What problem do you have if a Dutch person speaks Dutch to another Dutch person? What is being said has nothing to do with you. If they wanted you involved, they'd speak English.

Instead of blaming us for 'national pride', perhaps you should be a little less narrow-minded.

Also, have you ever had problems with people advertising items in other languages? I've seen a German ad once or twice in Kamadan, but that was probably someone in the wrong district.

Bottom line: if non-English-speaking people want to talk to only-English-speaking people, they will use English, don't worry. If they want to talk to each other, their own language is much more convenient.

To counter the argument "go to your own district or international": this holds mostly true for people with their own language district such as French and German, at least at European times. Others, like the Dutch, don't have their own district. For them, there is no difference between Europe-English or America-English (except for ping I guess). What is the deciding factor for their choice of district? Population of course. This dismisses International district and Europe-English (at least, during European off-times).

Simple pragmatism, nothing to do with 'national pride'.

Oh, I don't deny it's smart to use english, or rather, whatever language is prevalent in the district you're in. It is the most rational choice, provided you speak the language.

However, in a game where the player base is dwindling, separating districts by language and even demanding people only use those languages in them is not justified.

Why should someone be forced to play in empty districts all alone just because he speaks another language?

AmbientMelody, you seem to be mistaking playing GW for participating in some kind of global online Utopia, whereas it's actually just an entertaining way to move pixels around on a computer monitor. There is no need to communicate with other players other than personal inclination to do so. And there's certainly no need to accommodate anyone in any way other than to avoid falling short of the rules of conduct. Also, there is no community.

And sell the wrong item because they don't quite understand the descriptions. ...

The most probable explantions are (a) they don't know how to switch and (b) they've just returned from a trip and went to Kamadan or LA to sell the loot, forgetting that they're traveling through Us-districts.

Localized versions of games exist because the game makers expect to sell enough copies of them to warrant the costs. Localized versions implies you'll meet people less fluent in english then you'd wish. I doubt that is going to change.

Yeah, sure, from "siege" and "enchantment" in class one to "Gargoyle" and "conundrum" in the third class.

The problem lies with intolerance for people using a foreign language, which, for whatever reason, appears to be interpreted as a hostile action.

I don't see what harm is done to you when people use non-english languages to communicate with each other.

Well, now you're almost getting it. It's unlikely that anyone for who english is a foreign languague, and even those who learned a decent amount of english, would be as comfortable with it as with their own language.

It can be extremly fatiguing and frustrating to converse in a language you are not familiar with, in which you've only been taught the basics, in school. From that perspective it is logical when one chooses to limit oneself to the, obviously smaller, circle of people who do use that same language.

People communicate better in their own language then in any foreign language, such as english. Even in mixed groups, whenever they are addressing someone with the same language background, it is likely that they will switch to that language. There is no pride or other badness behind it, it's just how the 'mechanics' of it work.

Maybe you should start to care. I've never met anyone who wouldn't at least try to use something we might both be able to understand, but then, I do not tell people to do things.

If the majority of the team had been using english, he'd probably adapt, if possible. If the team was french, you might have tried to ask them to use english, so you can understand them. But telling them, no, that's not how you get people to cooperate.

Why would they want to communicate with you, or me? What if they're perfectly happy playing the game 'with their friends', just as the box says.

We don't have a right to participate in their conversations, or to become part of their circle. Nor can we demand from anyone that they participate in our english conversations, or that they become part of our circle.

Consider it to be their loss if they can not, or will not, switch to english.

I'd also like to point out that I find all too often those who do not speak English as their first language come across more understandable than the stuff 'natives' may spew out. Broken English is one thing, but could be understood based on the context of the situation. I've actually witnessed someone complaining about the use of other languages in LA AD, the irony being they themselves couldn't even string together a conversational sentence fragment that made sense even when resorting to using both texting-speak and slang.

PM says hai!

Very good. How about a conversation between more than 2 people? And even if 2 people use all chat to talk to each other, how does it in any way affect you?

Anyway, in addition to being imperfect suggestions (yes they all have flaws of their own), all these 'solutions' being brought up (PM, alliance/guild chat, international district) are for a non-existent problem!

Answered this question for me yourself.

Team chat, Guild/Alliance chat, Guest invite Guild Hall Chat, International District.

How in any way does it affect you to use English in a English speaking local district? I use English, not the best at times, but I still have a damn good go. Think of it as learning how to better your alternative language capabilities, it affects you in a positive way rather than a negative way by bettering your lingural skills.

Most people who speak in foreign languages in English districts are more than capable of speaking in English, especially when flinging insults at irritated English or American gamers who ask them to speak English instead of flooding their local chat.

As for how does it affect people (and not just English or American people, but also foreign people who speak English) when your local chat is flooded with a language that no one understands it puts alot of people off from using the local chat, and it segregates gamers, and a community from being built, within that district.

I think personally the people speaking in foreign languages are probably being more selfish than those who request them to speak in a language everyone can understand.

I don't think people will use the team formation process to enjoy a bit of spontaneous chat or the odd comment when in town.

You seem to have missed it, so I'll repeat it; people communicate better and with less effort when using their own language. They'll also automaticlly swich to it when encountering and addressing someone that has the same 'native' language.

I know from experience how frustrating it can be when using - having to use - a language you only know a little. It would be silly to use such a language when a better alternative is available. It's even sillier to expect people to not use that better alternative.

To put up an analogy; if I were in a public place, say in spain, with my friend speaking dutch with him do you think it would be considered normal when the locals around us requested - or even demanded - from us that we speak spanish, to each other?

My crystal ball dropped into a billion pieces the other day, would you mind telling me where you bought yours so I can get one to replace mine?

In what way is making a problem out of something that is no problem going to help building a community?

I think exactly the opposite, but at least I have decent arguments.

Such a shame seems it just creates a bigger problem. Ever been in Shing Jea of Kamadan Euro English 1 when foreign players are in full swing in local chat? You try getting a word in when the local chat is flooded with a language you cannot understand.

Maybe I should go to French or German servers and start flooding their local chats with my own language with my friends and see how much they actually like it. I don't mean for just one or two lines, but a full blown conversation for a good few hours.

Sounds like fun.

I didn't miss it. Alot of these people do not even attempt to speak English, they always speak their own languages, even when they are quite capable of speaking English. I personally know a few players who can speak good English yet will still only speak their own language in local regardless.

You seem quite good at typing English now. How did you manage that without practising?

Stop trying to play the inability card when alot of the problem in this respect stems from a players disregard for use, rather than inability to use.

Your analogy is pointless because, quite simply, you are talking to someone from another country who speaks a different main language than English.

I've been there, done that, and my English is alot better because I took the time to practise it and learn how to apply it within different enviroments.

Would you really go to another country and not attempt to use their language at all? That's just disrespectful, and ignorant.

And for the record my workplace is English speaking only. We have Polish, Albanian, Algerian, Somlian, Hungarian, and Chinese staff working among English. So if you think that stuff like this isn't applied in the real world then you need to start looking at the real world with open eyes.

Use your common sense. You're proving my exact point by understanding everything I say to you right now. There are a few foreign players in this thread using good English skills. Can't speak? Won't speak?

On second thoughts if you cannot understand why this is a problem after so many pages already of people putting forward several different opinions over the matter maybe I was wrong about your ability to read/speak English? Which one is it? Can read? Won't read?

No, your arguments are pretty poor when you come up against someone who doesn't even speak English as a main language who has completely opposite views compared to your own.

While in the mean time this entire debate has been made by players from a variety of nationalities, in English.

I think that pretty much kills off anything else you have to say on the matter.

Nope. Never noticed any language related problem, not once. But I am not easily annoyed when something looking like linenoise floats by.

Note that if it's very busy you may not get a response to your queries whatever languages are used, your message gets drowned anyway.
Also note that if there's so much non-english chat your english message is more likely to get read by english users then when all the chat is in english.

It's their right to not speak english.

I probably wouldn't speak english with dutch friends either, unless there where people participating in the conversation who didn't speak dutch.

Not by speaking english with my friends (not even on foreign marketplaces), with them I use dutch or limburgs, depending on who I am speaking with.

Inability has nothing to do with. People will use the language that's the best and most suitable for use between them, without regard to an audience.

You can stand upside down, or threathen them with the A-bomb, between them they will still use their own language. Problems do not arise from them doing so, but from others making a fuzz about it.

I was talking dutch to my dutch friend while in spain. If I was speaking to someone else I might use german, or english, or french if none of the others work out.

But when you're not part of the conversation, you can not expect people to use a language you understand.

If people are trying to speak with you in a language you don't know they most likely don't know what language you speak, or they don't know the language (they think) you do speak.

I'd speak dutch when talking with my friend and attempt to speak their language, or something we'd all understand, when speaking with people of that country.

I've handled multi-lingual situations for most of my life, which might well be longer then you've lived.

We are discussing on a public forum, not a marketplace, and not in Kamadan. People who join here and discuss are likely to understand english good enough to do so - it would afterall be pointless if they didn't. You simply don't know how well someone in Kamadan can use english.

I do understand, and I've been pointing it out, you just don't know how to read it: it is a problem only when you are make it a problem.

You aren't making any sense, our arguments are not weighed by how well you or I can make use of the english language.

No, it would prove my point, we use the language that is, afawk, best suitable for the two of us to discuss with. If we'd both been dutch, or german, the use of dutch, or german, would have allowed us to better express our idea's then we can in english.

When all the english speaking players may have turned of local because what they see is just a bunch of gobbledeegook?

If you say so.

Most people simply just won't bother.

You don't have rights. Guild Wars is not America. There is no freedom of speech.

But in any case this isn't about rights. It's about having a bit of respect and consideration for other locales. If I go to a specific server i'll use the language for that server, not spam their chat with my own.

Good for you. Do it in private.

Without consideration for others you mean?

Yes I get it.

No the problem arises from the lack of consideration for locale.

Yes you can. Speak localised or use private functions. That's what they're for.

In a European English server?

Lol.

If it's not obvious what language I speak then there's a problem caused by it already. People go to a English server to expect people to speak, and understand, English, not German, Dutch, Russian, Czech, or whatever other languages people speak. If they wanted to speak German they would go to a German server, etc.

Sorry the Dutch don't have their own server, that's what International is for.

Of course you do.

Don't try and play the age card as if it matters on an internet forum.

Also might. I might well be older than you think I am, making your comment... pointless.

We are discussing on a public forum, not a marketplace, and not in Kamadan. People who join here and discuss are likely to understand english good enough to do so - it would afterall be pointless if they didn't. You simply don't know how well someone in Kamadan can use english.[/quote]

Yet they read English well enough to go to the Euro/American English districts. Hmmm.

I read it just fine. I told you. If you cannot understand that simple line of a sentence then say nothing if you're going to repeat the same thing over needlessly.

You say it's a problem if I make it a problem? I say it's a problem if they make it a problem by not respecting the language barriers of another server.

Yes they are. People like yourself who actually understand English yet still continue to disregard the localisation of language for a district are the reason this debate is in place.

Here I'll give you a clue.

European "English"

You can cry about my views until you're blue in the face. It doesn't change my opinion one bit. You can throw whatever insults, or childish, sarcastic, or witty, remarks at me it doesn't change a thing. All it does is show that all you can do is resort to petty idiocy as you try and argue your point when in reality you're point means nothing to me and my views will still remain the same.

Let's hope Anet resolve this problem in a manner that is less distracting, and one that is much more functional in the future.

I expected these responses, which is why I already pointed out that your 'solutions' to this non-existent problem have flaws of their own and are thus not really solutions. Team Chat? Imagine teaming up with random people just to have a conversation. Guest Guild Invite Guild Hall chat? Seriously? Are you actually suggesting that? None of your so-called solutions are anything close to convenient.

My English is good enough, thank you very much (my TOEFL test was rated fluent/mothertongue level of English when I took it to study abroad in New Zealand). However, it has been stated by others as well: talking in your own language is faster, easier and more convenient. It doesn't affect me in any way to use English, but when there's no need, why would I switch to a second language with someone who speaks the same first language as me for a conversation that isn't targeted at you in the slightest?

Show me one example (screenshot will do) of local chat in America 'flooded' with foreign languages in such a way that it is impossible to have a conversation of your own.


Edit: I just read the few posts above this one.


Consider this situation (which actually happened yesterday):

A few guildies and I (Dutch guild, yes we speak Dutch within the guild/alliance, good for us right? Not flooding your precious all chat with gibberish) were teaming up in Doomlore Shrine to do a dungeon. Someone in the district sees us partying up and from our tag recognises us to be Dutch. In All Chat he asks in Dutch what we're going to do. We reply and the conversation goes on a little.

My question: how does this in any way affect the other players present in Doomlore Shrine?

And enough with the 'go to international district' already, you should read post #90 a little better.

There's actually nothing in the Rules of Conduct about which languages one can or can't speak in any specific district. In fact, raging on people about it, that's harassment, and that is disallowed. I guess I should start reporting people for that.

As an only English speaking Englishman I have to agree with the poster above, I've never seen foreign jibber jabber in Euro English districts be so bad that it disrupts English speaking players.

In my experience at least, most foreigners in English dists usually speak English, and when they don't it's still not in an excessive manner and these guys are generally guys without dists for their own langauges, like Dutch, Czechs, Hungarians etc.

Personally speaking, I don't care what languages I see in all chat, simply because it's most likely just a few guys chatting and they aren't disrupting my gaming experience. If they want to talk to me they'll use English, otherwise just let them get on with it I say.

On a side note, I've noticed most Euro's have a good grasp of English, particularly Scandinavian players. I've grouped in the past with Swedes, Finns and Danes and not had a clue they weren't English until they told me.. all good guys too.

Sorry Norwegian folks, I love you too but I don't remember ever grouping with any of you.

I believe I've already given my opinion on this already. I'm sure you're capable enough of reading that I don't need to repeat myself?

I read it just fine.

Go to the International district if you have no server of your own. You can have your own district all to yourself there seems it's so dead. You won't be bothering anyone else and no one else will be bothering you.

No you didn't, or you wouldn't be repeating the exact reason we don't go there.
No need, just a friendly suggestion to lighten up and be more like Guy Incognito.

Gee, I don't know, if everyone would just go to the international districts to speak their own brand of 'gobbledeegook', it would become an unendurable mess. Besides, you'd expect people in an international setting to use a lingua franca, like for example, English. It's called the international district, not the 'unsupported languages' district.

Everyone who wants to get involved with trading will go to the American districts of Kamadan. There's really no comparable place for that. So what if they want to chat in their own language sometimes? The simple fact of the matter is, people will do what they want to do, and as long as they don't do anything warranting GM measures, what's to stop them? If it bothers anyone, they're free to get the hell out of there. If it really, really bothers anyone, they can take it up with ANet or NCSoft. Getting all worked up about it on a messageboard is pointless.

Why would non English speakers who don't have their own district be forced to an international district when our ping is better on European servers. That's just plain silly..

And there's respecting other people and their wish to have a pleasant conversation with their friends, or whomever they've been questing with, without having to watch their step because someone might feel offendend about seeing non-english in local chat.

Their choice of conversations partners and the language they use has no effect on you other then the effect you believe it to have on you

Just because you do, doesn't imply everyone does. Some people just hop districts to gather a team to do a mission or zq. WIth the party-search system enabling them to search over multiple districts it's not unthinkable that they wind up in a language district that's not quite their own.

With a ping even worse then that on more local servers? Why would they let your intolerance interfere with their gameplay?
I can use multiple languages, as many dutch can, I am not troubled by non-english in local chat. Why should I leave.

Well, age has nothing to do with it - you were pointing at your experiences in your multilingual workplace, and I pointed out my experience from living a lifetime within a multilingual environment.

Yes. You don't have to read it, you don't have to understand it, you don't have to be annoyed by not understanding it. It's all between your ears.

If someone were to ask question in german I might help them in german, yes. If we were returning from a mission/quest, I might chat with teammembers in a language other then english, yes. My attention would be with them, not with you.

Everyone who has bought this game has equal rights to play this game, with their friends, no matter what their language - and without being persecuted by the language police.

I don't cry. You make a problem where none exists. I am trying to point out that since you are the one with the problem, you are also the one who holds the key to end it.

Well, then continue being troubled by the use of foreign languages. You can not change others, only yourself and your own perceptions.

Because all the activity is in the american district 1 everywhere.
Playing in a different district is the closest thing to playing a MMO without seing anyone else . EVER .

this is why i would send everyone to international as default option , at least people could feel there are people playing the game.

the diferente languages on local chat would give it the international feeling that guildwars should have, just because its possible !

my 2 cents anyway

Plain and simple, Euro eng dists are as a good as dead!

And the euro servers are not working right. It safe for me and my guild members to play in a lagging American server then a Europe server where the gh is not working for the most of the time.

I only speak english on line and the US districts are more populated.

I used to play on Euro servers during lagathons, but tbh when I went to LA and Kamadan and pressed P everything for sale was in French or German, then I moved to US and everything was in Hillbilly English which I can read! And since the lag issue (at least for me) has gone away I think I'll stick with US dists

Oh goody. English language bigots on the march again.

For the record, there are more native Spanish speakers in the world than there are native English speakers.

People are free to speak which ever language they choose in which ever district they choose. Language districts are there as a convenience, nothing more.

For the record, I'm a native English-speaking Englishman - a member of the most insular nation on Earth.

Arf why did somebody drag this thread back from hell?

My reason was that I purchased 2 accounts at the start 1 for each Euro and the U.S.

This was when favor was given to each respective area , so at any time 1 region lost favor I switched to a diff region many did this.

When this all changed to become unlimited travel a lot of guys just started to either play on one or other due to the timescale.

I never had the language barrier problem at all as with a lot of guys,
You always had guys who spammed geeze you even get that now in english may I add, that was my reason for using both sides of the pond

As someone who can actually generally figure out most Dutch and German written phrases, I still go to AE districts when I want to trade because frankly, I can't be bothered trying to translate when trading.

Basically, it comes down to a simple choice : try to trade in EU districts and have to work at it or go to AE and get it done. People can QQ about people's right to speak their own language, but I also have a right not to bother trying to understand it. And see how the shoe is on the other foot if you stand about in a busy German district and spam english in all chat...

That said, this is largely a result of the crappy trade system in GW. How about the Live Team work on that.

I always wonder this on forums, especially when people are still replying to the thread itself as if they're not noticing how old it is.